Official Team USA Basketball Thread.

[nikeball]

Originally Posted by mqywaaah

What's Sun's number? And yes, they all look alike.

#9 i believe

[Flacolaco]

Originally Posted by digit

Spain > US streetballers

Can't wait for saturday's clash...

Not really sure what a group of NBA Champions, MVPs, and All-Stars has to do with "street ballers."

[Flacolaco]

What is Craig Sager wearing???

Come on dude, bring your A-game.

[mqywaaah]

I dont think i'll be able to watch the US-Ger game. I hope they dont get manhandled by the US.

[GermanDunk]

Originally Posted by mqywaaah

I dont think i'll be able to watch the US-Ger game. I hope they dont get manhandled by the US.

German team played like crap. Can´t imagine they will beat China.

[BGMaverick9]

I liked when Bush went "Deuces Wild! I'm ouuuuut!"

The problems for Team USA after today are very correctable. Just stay home on 3 point shooters and nail a few more 3s early.

[Flacolaco]

So I assume this Angola/Germany game I'm watching right now isn't live...

[BGMaverick9]

Right, it was on last night at 10:15.

[DOMINATOR]

dwight played like a little bitch. can't believe people say he is best C in the nba.
china was bad... no off-ball movement and bad defensive rebounding. so far Yi is a bust, that guy needs to be aggressive.
china didnt pass to yao nearly enough... he was open in the post almost every play. instead they jacked up 3's.
lebron really set the tone. with him determined to win gold i dont think any team will beat USA.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Kidd had no assists.

Encouraging.

[Caseman]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Kidd had no assists.

Encouraging.

Deceiving stats. Kidd had many cross-court passes that led to easy baskets. Also, I remember specifically a pass from Kidd to Howard where he misses the easy lay-in. Kidd was also great defensively. I'm not the usually Kidd-fanboy, but he played as well as we could want with the minutes he got.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by DOMINATOR

dwight played like a little bitch. can't believe people say he is best C in the nba.
china was bad... no off-ball movement and bad defensive rebounding. so far Yi is a bust, that guy needs to be aggressive.
china didnt pass to yao nearly enough... he was open in the post almost every play. instead they jacked up 3's.
lebron really set the tone. with him determined to win gold i dont think any team will beat USA.

To their credit, they did hit most of the 3s early...then they got tired and flamed out.

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Kidd had no assists.

Encouraging.

He put players in position for at least 2-3 assists, which would've been more than enough to make me happy, it's just the players didn't finish off the play. He played pretty good D. I only saw one big bad idea where he could've finished driving the lane for a bucket but he tried to pass it off to Carmelo.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Kidd had no assists.

Encouraging.

Did you even watch the game? Kidd played well. Don't complain based on a box score.

[BGMaverick9]

vs Angola.

Barkley still says it best, 35 second mark:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRl8bvCKIK8

[alby]

Kidd played great.

I still wish that Coach K would play Deron at the point and sit Paul more. But, I guess winning a game by 40 isn't that much different than winning by 30.

[BGMaverick9]

13, 18, 19: that was the minutes distribution for Kidd, Williams and Paul respectively. I really don't have a problem with that, it's not a massive disparity. And really, he's performing well, getting good work time and staying sharp and getting rest. That's what we were hoping for with him being on the Olympic team looking ahead to next season.

The big-man size issue should be null and void vs Angola. If I remember hearing correctly during the German game, they don't have a player over 6-8.

[alby]

Angola has a player named Baby Shaq, he's 6' 7"

hehehe

[dirno2000]

Originally Posted by alby

Kidd played great.

I still wish that Coach K would play Deron at the point and sit Paul more. But, I guess winning a game by 40 isn't that much different than winning by 30.

I don't see how benching the best PG in the world is a good idea when you're trying to win a gold medal.

[alby]

^ I don't want to bench Deron!

[dirno2000]

I don't want to get into that but whichever one you like better the other one is right there with him and my point remains the same.

As far as Kidd, I thought he did some good things in the first half. In the second he got in trouble by over passing a couple of times. Once when he forced the ball to a covered Carmello on a break and another time when he was ahead off the defense but contorted his body to pass the ball to Howard at the 3-point line which resulted in Howard getting it blocked.

[Dr.Zoidberg]

Originally Posted by alby

Angola has a player named Baby Shaq, he's 6' 7"

hehehe

Baby Shaq is a player from Greece:

...Pivot man Sofaklis Schortsianitis, known as "Baby Shaq" in Greece...

Link

He is 6´9´´and also called "Big Sofo" or "Incredible Hulk".

Here a Photo and Bio: Link

[alby]

^ oops, my mistake =]

[alby]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

13, 18, 19: that was the minutes distribution for Kidd, Williams and Paul respectively. I really don't have a problem with that, it's not a massive disparity. And really, he's performing well, getting good work time and staying sharp and getting rest. That's what we were hoping for with him being on the Olympic team looking ahead to next season.

The big-man size issue should be null and void vs Angola. If I remember hearing correctly during the German game, they don't have a player over 6-8.

The minute distribution is equal but Deron is the two guard when he's in the game because he plays alongside Paul.

Kidd/Kobe/Melo/Lebron/Dwight
Deron/Wade/Kobe/Lebron/Bosh
Paul/Redd/Wade/Melo/Boozer

should be the 1st, 2nd, 3rd teams respectively.

[Bayliss]

Dirno, Paul is definitely the better player out of the bunch but he is pretty useless if he can't get into the lane. And with all of the international teams playing zone he will have a hard time getting into the lane.

And he isn't a true passer like Kidd. Kidd is more like Stockton, while Paul is more like Isiah. Paul just doesn't see the court as well.

You could argue that they play 4 on 5 with Kidd in there, but Kidd is who brings the fast break to the USA team. They rarely have to get in the half court offense with him in there.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Bayliss

You could argue that they play 4 on 5 with Kidd in there, but Kidd is who brings the fast break to the USA team. They rarely have to get in the half court offense with him in there.

Kidd had some amazing outlet passes today. It's incredible to me how quickly he gets the ball out after receiving it in the backcourt.

[dirno2000]

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Dirno, Paul is definitely the better player out of the bunch but he is pretty useless if he can't get into the lane. And with all of the international teams playing zone he will have a hard time getting into the lane.

who says you can't penetrate against a zone? Keep in mind that a zone basically a man to man on the ball so if you can beat the man in front of you, you can get in the lane. And penetration tends to be more damaging to a zone than a man to man.

After Paul's drive and dish to Lebron in the second half Doug Collins made the point that it's next to impossible go keep Paul out of the lane.

And he isn't a true passer like Kidd. Kidd is more like Stockton, while Paul is more like Isiah. Paul just doesn't see the court as well.

Yet he just averaged 12 assists a game. I get your point that players like Isiah and Paul create passing opportunities with their offense but 12 assists is 12 assists. You don't put up those kinds without seeing the floor.

You could argue that they play 4 on 5 with Kidd in there, but Kidd is who brings the fast break to the USA team. They rarely have to get in the half court offense with him in there.

Kidd does a great job of getting he ball up the floor to ignite the break. Unlike a lot of PG's he doesn't always feel the need to bring up up himself of there's a better option ahead. Still, it's a bit of an exaggeration to say that we rarely have to run half court offense when he's in the game. Plus, just like in the NBA, good teams will do a better job of limiting your fast break opportunities.

[Bayliss]

who says you can't penetrate against a zone? Keep in mind that a zone basically a man to man on the ball so if you can beat the man in front of you, you can get in the lane. And penetration tends to be more damaging to a zone than a man to man.

After Paul's drive and dish to Lebron in the second half Doug Collins made the point that it's next to impossible go keep Paul out of the lane.

Just going by what I have seen so far. And Paul making a pass to LeBron hasn't changed the fact that Paul is having a tougher time getting into the lane. And with his inability to shoot outside, he hasn't been a great point guard out there.

Yet he just averaged 12 assists a game. I get your point that players like Isiah and Paul create passing opportunities with their offense but 12 assists is 12 assists. You don't put up those kinds without seeing the floor.

Andre Miller once put up 11 assists a game. He still doesn't have the vision of Kidd who has never averaged that. And I'm not saying Paul is Andre or vice versa. But what I am saying is assists aren't the end all with passing.

With LeBron, Kobe, Wade dominating the ball and the point guard is only used for getting into the offense, USA neds a guard who can pass quickly, sees the floor quickly, isn't afraid to guive it up. Paul isn't like that. He can pass, but it comes from dribbling a ton. He doesn't see it off the bat like Kidd.

Kidd does a great job of getting he ball up the floor to ignite the break. Unlike a lot of PG's he doesn't always feel the need to bring up up himself of there's a better option ahead. Still, it's a bit of an exaggeration to say that we rarely have to run half court offense when he's in the game. Plus, just like in the NBA, good teams will do a better job of limiting your fast break opportunities.

It isn't a coincidence that the US has blown other team's out with Kidd in the game, and has lost leads repeated with Paul or Deron in the game. And that goes back to the fast break. The USa puts on those runs when they rebound, steal and kick it ahead for dunks. Those happen a lot more with Kidd in the game. That isn't an exaggeration.

[Bayliss]

Alby, since you asked for my thoughts I figured it would foster more discussion if I put them in this thread so others may comment on it.

I feel the US will win Gold. They are actually lucky they got put in the bracket with Spain. Spain poses the best chance to beat the US. But Spain needed the "surprise" attack of only seeing the US in the medal rounds. Now the US can prepare for them because they will have had played them.

But the US team is still flawed. They still rely on crap to get it done. The US team needed a couple of workmanlike big men and they needed a few shooters. Guys like Nick Collison as a big and Mike Miller as a shooter is what the team needs. LeBron is essentially the point guard for the team, and that is fine. But if you are going to have him dominate the ball, the team needed a couple of shooters to get the pass off of him. Also, having only Dwight as a true big may hurt them. If he gets in foul trouble, Bosh and especially Boozer are huge dropoffs defensively. And from what I've seen, the US still thinks that the first wide open shot is a good one. Way too little ball movement. Carmelo Anthony is sucking the life out of their offense. With their athleticism edge at every position, they should full court press the ENTIRE game. No reason not to do it. They could be the Kwntucky Wildcats albiet Olympic version.

And while Spain may not have as much trouble with it because of Calderon and Navarro... they will have to resat at some time. Rubio aint old enough yet. But when they press they have to stay at home with it. You can't constantly gamble with the press. And the press takes them out of their initial offense too. Even throwing in half court traps should be used a lot.

But their isn't a team that can hang with them.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Bayliss

But the US team is still flawed. They still rely on crap to get it done. The US team needed a couple of workmanlike big men and they needed a few shooters. Guys like Nick Collison as a big and Mike Miller as a shooter is what the team needs. LeBron is essentially the point guard for the team, and that is fine. But if you are going to have him dominate the ball, the team needed a couple of shooters to get the pass off of him. Also, having only Dwight as a true big may hurt them. If he gets in foul trouble, Bosh and especially Boozer are huge dropoffs defensively. And from what I've seen, the US still thinks that the first wide open shot is a good one. Way too little ball movement. Carmelo Anthony is sucking the life out of their offense. With their athleticism edge at every position, they should full court press the ENTIRE game. No reason not to do it. They could be the Kwntucky Wildcats albiet Olympic version.

That's good stuff. The thing that sticks out to me is shooting. Deron and Paul need to mainly stick to penetration/layups for their primary options. It might not be available to them all the time, but I think their perimeter shooting might be a little sketchy. Kobe went 1/7 behind the line today, I doubt the performances will be that ugly the whole way through, he had some open shots and they just didn't go in. Melo just doesn't do anything for me, unless he is taking his man into the post and muscling it in.

LeBron is going to do anything and everything it looks like...minus on the ball lock-down defense. He showed he can be a help-side defender for sure. It looks like he is definitely trying to send a message to the team and the world that he wants this badly and can be the star of stars.

The defense just needs to be smart, they're athletic enough to stay in position...just don't be greedy. They don't need to gamble and try to steal, just take it right when it's there and don't over-reach. The 3-ball is going to be something they have to watch carefully. I'm sure teams will make that their weapon of choice if it's available to them. I agree that the full-court pressure should be used pretty heavily.

[dirno2000]

Just going by what I have seen so far. And Paul making a pass to LeBron hasn't changed the fact that Paul is having a tougher time getting into the lane. And with his inability to shoot outside, he hasn't been a great point guard out there.

I'm also going by what I've seen and I've seem him getting in the lane. He's played well, that's why he was leading the team in minutes coming into today's game.

Andre Miller once put up 11 assists a game. He still doesn't have the vision of Kidd who has never averaged that. And I'm not saying Paul is Andre or vice versa. But what I am saying is assists aren't the end all with passing.

I'm not sure how much I value court vision at the PG position if it's not leading to assists.

With LeBron, Kobe, Wade dominating the ball and the point guard is only used for getting into the offense, USA neds a guard who can pass quickly, sees the floor quickly, isn't afraid to guive it up. Paul isn't like that. He can pass, but it comes from dribbling a ton. He doesn't see it off the bat like Kidd.

But somehow he collected 6 assists in less than 20 minutes. If you'll notice, the wing players dominate the ball more when Kidd's in the game because he gives it up an doesn't look to get it back. He could dictate the offense a bit more if he wanted to.

It isn't a coincidence that the US has blown other team's out with Kidd in the game, and has lost leads repeated with Paul or Deron in the game. And that goes back to the fast break. The USa puts on those runs when they rebound, steal and kick it ahead for dunks. Those happen a lot more with Kidd in the game. That isn't an exaggeration.

I'm pretty sure this is just your perception. This team looks to run at ever opportunity no matter who is in the game and great deal of that running is sparked by pressure defense. Paul and Williams are just a good as Kidd when it comes to pressuring the ball and playing the passing lanes.

[alby]

Chris Paul leads the team in minutes because he is the point guard in garbage time

[dirno2000]

when you're average margin of victory is around 30 it's all garbage time.

[alby]

Paul's garbage time:

4th quarter
USA - 27
China - 22

[Bayliss]

I'm not sure how much I value court vision at the PG position if it's not leading to assists.

Because Jason Kidd is making the play, not getting the assist. It happened at least 4 times today against China. He started the break, threw it ahead to LeBron or Kobe who gave it up to someone for the dunk. Had Kidd not released the ball so quickly from the back court, there would be no fast break.

But somehow he collected 6 assists in less than 20 minutes. If you'll notice, the wing players dominate the ball more when Kidd's in the game because he gives it up an doesn't look to get it back. He could dictate the offense a bit more if he wanted to.

And how many of those assists came when the game was over in the 4th quarter? Kidd rarely if ever gets to play when the game is "over."

I'm pretty sure this is just your perception. This team looks to run at ever opportunity no matter who is in the game and great deal of that running is sparked by pressure defense. Paul and Williams are just a good as Kidd when it comes to pressuring the ball and playing the passing lanes.

Team may be running at every opportunity but it only translates to fast break success with Kidd in there. That is telling to me.

[dirno2000]

Because Jason Kidd is making the play, not getting the assist. It happened at least 4 times today against China. He started the break, threw it ahead to LeBron or Kone who gave it up to someone for the dunk. ut had Kidd not released the ball so quickly from the backcourt, there would be no fast break.

So are we going to start tracking hockey assists to prop up Kidd?

I'm not even saying he played bad but the Kidd vs. Paul argument is silly. I doubt you could find anybody that doesn't post on this board who would agree that Paul should sit do Kidd can play more.

And how many of those assists came when the game was over in the 4th quarter? Kidd rarely if ever gets to play when the game is decided.

This game was decided at the tip off.

Team may be running at every opportunity but it only translates to fast break success with Kidd in there. That is telling to me.

Again, that's you perception but I doubt the numbers would back it up. If I wasn't watching the games myself I'd think that they were walking the ball up the floor when Kidd's on the bench. that's just not the case.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by dirno2000

So are we going to start tracking hockey assists to prop up Kidd?

I'm not even saying he played bad but the Kidd vs. Paul argument is silly. I doubt you could find anybody that doesn't post on this board who would agree that Paul should sit do Kidd can play more.

They obviously aren't kept in stat sheets, but they're very valuable plays: the hockey assist-like pass. It's always mentioned in games, it's not necessarily the pass that lead to the basket but the one right before it that opened up the opportunity in the first place. The importance of them can't be forgotten and he does those very well.

And for your 2nd part, I really don't have a problem with the minutes as I mentioned. Kidd plays just enough minutes for me.

[alby]

Kidd's value isn't found in the stat sheet.

[Bayliss]

So are we going to start tracking hockey assists to prop up Kidd?

Nope. But I realize the reason why Kidd's statline may not rack up a lot of assists while Paul may get more. For example: does Kidd even play with a catch and shoot guy like Redd? I haven't really seen them on the court together. Kidd plays with more of a dribble guys like LeBron, Kobe, Wade. Paul on the other hand plays with Deron (who actually does catch and shoot), and also with Redd.

If you only looked at the boxscore, you would think Dwight Howard is a piss poor rebounder. But just because he didn't rebound doesn't make him a bad rebounder. It was his circumstance for that game. Same way Kaman only got likee 3 boards for Germany and Jagla (who is terrible) got 11.

Judging from the boxscore is just as silly.

I'm not even saying he played bad but the Kidd vs. Paul argument is silly. I doubt you could find anybody that doesn't post on this board who would agree that Paul should sit do Kidd can play more.

It isn't about who is the best player, it is about who is the best fit for the Olympic team. Huge difference. Re-read what I said about the team in general.

Again, that's you perception but I doubt the numbers would back it up. If I wasn't watching the games myself I'd think that they were walking the ball up the floor when Kidd's on the bench. that's just not the case.

And I think it is your perception that they are fast breaking with Paul and Deron in there. The USA gets commanding leads with Kidd in there. Coach K puts in Paul, and the lead shrinks. Kidd gets back in and the leads balloons again. It has happened in just about every game so far that the US has played. That tells me that Kidd is running the offense better (or at least getting the team easier looks) than the other two point guards. Does that make him the better player? Nope. But it does mean the US performs better with him in there. Kidd is the ultimate glue guy for the US basketball team. And the US needs a few more glue guys.

[LonghornDub]

Frankly I thought Kidd looked like the best PG on the team today, even without any assists or points. I haven't thought that in every game they've played, but I did today.

Maybe that's just me.

[GermanDunk]

Stats after GD 1

Crazy isn´t it ?

PLAYER COUNTRY PPG
C. Kaman Germany 24.0
E. Mingas Angola 24.0
D. Nowitzki Germany 19.0
D. Wade USA 19.0
M. Ginobili Argentina 19.0
JR Holden Russia 19.0
L. James USA 18.0
N. Prkacin Croatia 16.0
R. Fernandez Spain 16.0