teams in the West may keep getting better - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Chicago JK · 07-23-2003, 05:28 PM

Not a big fan of Miller, but this trade makes sense for the Kings. Really like the move for the Spurs.
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Pacers set to sign Miller, trade him to Kings

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By Marc Stein
ESPN.com

Indiana, Sacramento and San Antonio are on the verge of a three-team trade that will send Brad Miller to the Kings, ESPN.com has learned. The deal would foil attempts by Utah and Denver to sign the free-agent center.

HERE'S THE DEAL (SO FAR)
Kings get: C Brad Miller
Pacers get: F/C Scot Pollard
Spurs get: G/F Hedo Turkoglu and G Ron Mercer

The deal calls for Indiana to sign Miller to a multiyear deal and ship him to the Kings, who consider him the ideal long-term replacement for Vlade Divac, the 35-year-old center entering the final year of his contract.

As part of the exchange, Indiana receive Scot Pollard as a replacement for Miller, after the Pacers determined that they couldn't absorb the luxury-tax implications of meeting Miller's money demands.

The trade will also send swingmen Hedo Turkoglu and Ron Mercer to the Spurs as potential replacements for free agent Stephen Jackson. Turkoglu and Mercer are both in the final year of their contracts, preserving San Antonio's salary-cap flexibility for next summer when it must re-sign Manu Ginobili. Jackson is seeking a long-term deal.

It's expected that at least one more player will be involved in the deal, likely going to Indiana, to satisfy salary-cap requirements.

Ummmmm Ok · 07-23-2003, 05:40 PM

Hmmmmmm
- Indiana gives up Ron mercer and Miller
- Sacramento gives up Hedo and Pollard

What does San Antonio give up?

Dooby · 07-23-2003, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Ummmmm Ok
Hmmmmmm
- Indiana gives up Ron mercer and Miller
- Sacramento gives up Hedo and Pollard

What does San Antonio give up?

Could be as minor as draft pick and cash.

MavsFanFinley · 07-23-2003, 05:46 PM

This makes me sick. The Kings turn Pollard/Hedo into Brad Miller.

AnMan21 · 07-23-2003, 05:47 PM

ESPN is reporting there will likely be one more player involved...but from what team they didn't say. I'm with you, who does SA give up. So far it sounds like a sweet deal for them. 2 for none

Hitman · 07-23-2003, 05:47 PM

The Spurs are getting Hedo and Mercer for cash and draft picks?

The Kings are getting an all star 7 foot 1 center and giving up two guys who never played last year?

And the team in the East is getting screwed?

How fitting.

Ummmmm Ok · 07-23-2003, 05:54 PM

I just can't believe that San Antonio and Sacramento would be involved in a trade, even if it helps both teams out. I figured they would try to stand pat than help a top 3 western team out.

foglemann · 07-23-2003, 05:57 PM

Chalk up another miss for Nellie and Co. I would like more info. on this trade since I don't see how it all breaks down for the Spurs unless they are signing someone b/c they don't have anyone to give up.

uberfan · 07-23-2003, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Ummmmm Ok
Hmmmmmm
- Indiana gives up Ron mercer and Miller
- Sacramento gives up Hedo and Pollard

What does San Antonio give up?

Double post.

uberfan · 07-23-2003, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Ummmmm Ok
Hmmmmmm
- Indiana gives up Ron mercer and Miller
- Sacramento gives up Hedo and Pollard

What does San Antonio give up?

Cap space to get the deal done for the Pacers, and keep them out of LT land. Sa only has 7 under contract, I think, prior to this trade.

uberfan · 07-23-2003, 06:06 PM

Listening to Randy Galloway on the local Dallas ESPN radio, they had a writer for Indy paper onthe show. The writer said this deal was going down and that he had just put in a call to Walsh. Walsdh told the writer he couldn't talk then, he was finishing up something.

uberfan · 07-23-2003, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Ummmmm Ok
I just can't believe that San Antonio and Sacramento would be involved in a trade, even if it helps both teams out. I figured they would try to stand pat than help a top 3 western team out.

It does make sense for both teams. SA gets to fill roster with veteran swingmen who have expiring contracts and helps them keep their cap space in tact for next year.

jayC · 07-23-2003, 06:08 PM

I can't believe the mavericks are once again sitting on their hands as another good deal goes on. Recap Kings can know play vlade/miller Webber/Clark and peja/wallace, with Christie , bibby and jackson in the backcourt. I am going to be sick the rich got richer. Spurs get better once again, with hedo and mercer sounds as if jackson is know available I wonder about manu ginobli.

I might be willing to give them nash to get miller in here. Everyone got better but the mavs hello first round exit!

uberfan · 07-23-2003, 06:13 PM

In another post, I mentioned the Indy sportswriter. He said he didn't think Pacers were interested in NVE and his contract, that it would take Nash to get them interested. He said if it was up to him he would take NVE, that Bird does not want Tinsley.

Ummmmm Ok · 07-23-2003, 06:52 PM

sturm und drang · 07-23-2003, 07:02 PM

I know it's smart that we're not making a move just for the sake of making a move-- and probably regretting it later-- but this is getting ridiculous. Seems like everyone's finding a way to upgrade... except us.

Remember when Mark was considered to be a loose cannon wheeler dealer? God, that seems so far away now...

DNNF · 07-23-2003, 07:03 PM

If I'm the Kings, why would I give up anything to the Spurs? Just deal with the Pacers directly. You don't want the Spurs go get two more bench players where they could comeback and bite them in the ass

MFFL · 07-23-2003, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: DNNF
If I'm the Kings, why would I give up anything to the Spurs? Just deal with the Pacers directly. You don't want the Spurs go get two more bench players where they could comeback and bite them in the ass

The Pacers want to reduce payroll. The Spurs can take extra because of their cap room.

WayOutWest · 07-23-2003, 07:15 PM

The trade can't go down without the Spurs ability to clear cap space for the Pacers. The Kings address their biggest problem, replacing Vlade and the Spurs improve their scoring ability in the back court at the same time ensuring they have enough cap space to sign Parker and Ginobli next year when their contracts are up. Great move for the teams in the West, not sure why Indy is doing this unless they're looking at it in the sense of getting something instead of nothing for Brad Miller and at the same time not locking themselves into another bad contract, Croshere, for long term and getting a very good PF/C for the East in Pollard.

This is a win, win, win situtation and really lessens the gap between the Kings/Spurs and the Lakers.

uberfan · 07-23-2003, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: MFFL

Quote:

Originally posted by: DNNF
If I'm the Kings, why would I give up anything to the Spurs? Just deal with the Pacers directly. You don't want the Spurs go get two more bench players where they could comeback and bite them in the ass

The Pacers want to reduce payroll. The Spurs can take extra because of their cap room.

Exactly, they could let Miller just walk and reduce payroll. This way they get a replacement for him a C, and get rid of Mercer's contract a year earlier, too. IF they did a two team trade, they would essentially be adding Miller's contract to their payroll and be in Luxury Tax land, especially if the contracts they took back are long term. They just resigned JO, and they have Harrington signed for a couple of more years. I think they have to do something with Bender next year if they are going to keep him. So, they are just planning ahead.

Thank goodness Mark Cuban signed Raef long term, and took on the big contracts of NVE and TAW when he did [img]i/expressions/brokenheart.gif[/img]

uberfan · 07-23-2003, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: WayOutWest
The trade can't go down without the Spurs ability to clear cap space for the Pacers. The Kings address their biggest problem, replacing Vlade and the Spurs improve their scoring ability in the back court at the same time ensuring they have enough cap space to sign Parker and Ginobli next year when their contracts are up. Great move for the teams in the West, not sure why Indy is doing this unless they're looking at it in the sense of getting something instead of nothing for Brad Miller and at the same time not locking themselves into another bad contract, Croshere, for long term and getting a very good PF/C for the East in Pollard.

This is a win, win, win situtation and really lessens the gap between the Kings/Spurs and the Lakers.

Don't forget that Indy gets rid of Mercer's contract this way as well. Plus, they don't have to move JO to Center and Al to PF. If they can somehow move Croshere's contract and get the PG they want, they will have gone a long way in improving their team and getting over the disappointment in losing Miller.

As far as Sacto goes, if they end up trading Clark to Knicks for Thomas as rumored, they really have had a nice off-season for someone who didn't have any cap room.

WayOutWest · 07-23-2003, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: uberfan

Quote:

Originally posted by: WayOutWest
The trade can't go down without the Spurs ability to clear cap space for the Pacers. The Kings address their biggest problem, replacing Vlade and the Spurs improve their scoring ability in the back court at the same time ensuring they have enough cap space to sign Parker and Ginobli next year when their contracts are up. Great move for the teams in the West, not sure why Indy is doing this unless they're looking at it in the sense of getting something instead of nothing for Brad Miller and at the same time not locking themselves into another bad contract, Croshere, for long term and getting a very good PF/C for the East in Pollard.

This is a win, win, win situtation and really lessens the gap between the Kings/Spurs and the Lakers.

Don't forget that Indy gets rid of Mercer's contract this way as well. Plus, they don't have to move JO to Center and Al to PF. If they can somehow move Croshere's contract and get the PG they want, they will have gone a long way in improving their team and getting over the disappointment in losing Miller.

As far as Sacto goes, if they end up trading Clark to Knicks for Thomas as rumored, they really have had a nice off-season for someone who didn't have any cap room.

Offloading Crosheers contract will be extreemly difficult. They've been trying to unload him for two years. The closest they got was trading hiim to the Lakers last year but PJ nixed the deal.

Hitman · 07-23-2003, 07:44 PM

This proposed deal makes zero sense to me. Why are Sac and SA working together? Why is Indiana doing this? It all seems to strange.

Anyone else starting to think that Cuban is blacklisted in the NBA? It kind of seems like no one wants to do business with him.

EVAN · 07-23-2003, 07:50 PM

sweet deal for both SA and SAC we are definitely gettings F@#$ED UP THE A@@ lol

EVAN · 07-23-2003, 07:50 PM

It really sucks man

Rhylan · 07-23-2003, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: sturm und drang
I know it's smart that we're not making a move just for the sake of making a move-- and probably regretting it later-- but this is getting ridiculous. Seems like everyone's finding a way to upgrade... except us.

Remember when Mark was considered to be a loose cannon wheeler dealer? God, that seems so far away now...

It really only happened once -- draft night 2000.

Otherwise, we've had J-Ho trade #1, "Oh-my-God-Eisley-You-Suck-Please-Leave" trade, and J-Ho trade #2.

Outside of all that, we've signed Dirk, Fin, Bradley, Esch, Raef and Najera each to at least a 6 year deal. We couldn't match Booth, we chose not to match Wang. Toss in the merry minimums (Griff, Newman, Raja, Walt,Popeye)...and, we've done some second-round pick jockeying, too, that I'm forgetting because it's insignificant.

Everything else has been a big buncha gum-flapping garbage.

one long blue sock · 07-23-2003, 08:40 PM

The Howard trades helped the Mavs more then you make it sound.

And Raja Bell, even though he is getting minimum money, is no minimum player.

But as for this summer, its hard to still be a Mavs fan.

Chiwas · 07-23-2003, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: one long blue sock
The Howard trades helped the Mavs more then you make it sound.

And Raja Bell, even though he is getting minimum money, is no minimum player.

But as for this summer, its hard to still be a Mavs fan.

ARE YOU STILL A MAVS FAN??? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img]

Just kidding, but it's hard to live it.

TVI · 07-23-2003, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Chicago JK
Not a big fan of Miller, but this trade makes sense for the Kings. Really like the move for the Spurs.

Hmmmm...Like this deal, I do!

Rhylan · 07-23-2003, 09:59 PM

Yup, I agree sock.. just making the point that there hasn't been nearly as much wheeling and dealing under Cuban's watch as he or the media or whatever hype machine would have you believe.

They've made some good moves, they've made some bad moves. They've done things when they shouldn't have, and they've not done anything when they should have made a move. It's hit and miss for any team, but there's been a lot of miss lately.

Just211 · 07-23-2003, 10:00 PM

you know, i think that might be the final deal, with no Spur being thrown in. What if Stein messed up, and the Spurs signed Miller, and traded him. It works that way.

Sac trades (7.295)
Pollard(5.3)
Hedo(1.995)

Sac recieves (8.3) works with 15 % rule
Miller

Spurs S&T Miller (8.3)

Spurs recieve (8.6)
Mercer (6.7)
Hedo (1.995)

Indy trades (6.7)
Mercer (6.7)

Indy recieves (5.3)
Pollard (5.3)

to me the only thing that doesn't work is indy needs to get a little more back. Maybe thats what is holding this up. Indy needs to get roughly 400,000 more $. If thats how it's really goin down, then the Spurs are genious.

Just211 · 07-23-2003, 10:02 PM

there was talk about Denver signing Miller, and trading him to Sac, so maybe the Spurs just jumped in , and used the cap room to make a great trade.

uberfan · 07-24-2003, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: foglemann
Chalk up another miss for Nellie and Co. I would like more info. on this trade since I don't see how it all breaks down for the Spurs unless they are signing someone b/c they don't have anyone to give up.

Spurs are sending Ferry to Pacers as their part of the deal.

SpursFan72 · 07-24-2003, 11:29 AM

Here you go guys, I posted this earlier in your "Around the NBA forum":

Actually guys, I don't think the Spurs are sending anyone away. If they do need to include anything in the deal, it will be picks. Here's why: This deal is really two deals in one. Sacramento sends Pollard + Hedo for Miller (who Indiana will sign and trade). Then, Indiana will send Hedo + Mercer to the Spurs to clear up salary cap room, since they are full at the shooting guard/small forward positions. This paves the way for Indiana to be able to resign Reggie Miller while allowing cap room for Indiana to go after another backup point guard. Spurs are able to absorb the contracts without trading anyone because of their cap room situation. They had roughly $14 million left after signing Rasho (thanks to the increase in the salary cap from last year and assuming they trade the rights or renounce the rights to Danny Ferry who will most likely retire anyway). Then they subtracted $5 million for signing Robert Horry, leaving roughly $9 million left for $8.7 million worth of contracts (Hedo+Mercer). The remaining money, roughly equal to a minimum contract, will probably be given to Devin Brown who they signed from their summer league.

The Spurs would still have a roster spot for Stephen Jackson even though they intend to resign Steve Kerr and Kevin Willis. However, most likely Stephen will look to resign with someone else. Reportedly, his agent was playing hard ball, demanding a long term deal that the Spurs were not yet willing to give him. My guess would be that Houston would be the destination, since Van Gundy seems to be very interested in him and he is from Port Arthur.

To verify my $14 million figure in cap space, you could go to Hoopshype.com ( http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/san_antonio.htm ) today and see that after signing Rasho and Duncan they were on the books for $29,325,408. Horry's and Brown's signings haven't been updated yet. The new $43.3 million salary cap - $29.3 million in contracts = $14 million.

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Obviously as ESPN Insider points out, signing Ferry to a non guaranteed contract and trading him works as well as my suggestion to trade his rights to Indiana or renounce him. Danny Ferry was contemplating retirement anyway, so I doubt the Pacers keep him. In either case, the $2.5 million hold the Spurs have on their payroll right now thanks to Danny Ferry , comes off so they can fully use their entire $14 million for their deals.