Break Bank and pay Billips...

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

This still doesn't even come close to my definition of break the bank. Yes, under certain circumstances the Mavs could do a SNT with Detroit. But to do this the Mavs must lose players close to the contract that Billups would sign, and the trading must be done with Detroit -- ie Dumars gets to be involved. Also, let's just agree up front that Billups doesn't take the MLE, so the Mavs cannot just sign him outright.

76. Can a free agent be signed and immediately traded?

Under no circumstances can a team sign and then trade another team's free agent. But there is a rule that allows teams to re-sign their own free agents for trading purposes, called the sign-and-trade rule. Under the sign-and-trade rule, the player is re-signed and immediately traded to another team. This is done by adding a clause to the contract which stipulates that the contract is invalid if the player's rights are not traded to the specific team within 48 hours.

No other team can just SNT him only the Pistons. Any team under the Salary cap by the amount that he would sign for... ie close to max, can sign him. Not the teams under the luxury cap, the ones under the salary cap. IE their are only a few (I think 4 ) teams actually far enough under the cap at this time. These are the only teams that can sign Billups to a FA deal....those and the Pistons. The Pistons using his Bird rights can sign him to any salary they want, including going well over the luxury tax. The Pistons have the right to trade him within 48 hrs to any team, provided that the Pistons will take back within 125% of the amount of salary for the first year of the trade. If Billups signs for say 70 million over 5 years, starting at 12 million with an increase of 1mill every year, then the Pistons would have to take back 9.6m in salary for next year minimum.

Net increase in salary -- 12 - 9.6 = 2.4M Now 2.4M would more than break my bank account, but I don't think that amount is party money during his single days for Cuban.
So although he could be acquired, lets face it, it wouldn't break the bank.

Now, let's go with the odds.
Billups takes the MLE -- 1 in forget it too many 0's.
Billups signs with one of the few teams under the cap --- 1 in 200
Billups convinces Detroit to do a SNT -- 1 in 80
Billups convinces Detroit to do a SNT - Detroit decides to take back close to max salary because they can gain players/picks, Dallas is the team that offers the best players/picks/salary structure, and somehow the best team in the east and the best team in the west want to break up core players --- 1 in too many 0's.
Billups signs with the Pistons and they just pay the tax. --- 1 in 2

Possible yes -- I really think that the odds are better that we are involved in a nuclear war with Iran and their is no NBA season, than Billups ending up in Dallas next year - although I must agree it is a possibility no matter how unlikely.

Good reading for novices on the Salary cap:
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm

Oh yea, I'm about 40 as well, and Silk it would have been much easier to just admit you were wrong up front than make this into a long thread about something that odds are against ever happening.

dalmations202,
Go re-read my thread I created and break down which part was wrong. It seems that you maybe just scanning through, but it all comes from the name of the thread.

Originally Posted by dalmations202

This still doesn't even come close to my definition of break the bank. .

Please dont take this the wrong way, but it is NOT your definition that the title of the thread was meant for. It was mine, so how can someone change it to fit their definition?

You when you talk odds, that has nothing to do with what I said at all. I mentioned a possible player coming to the Mavs. Nothing else. Everything else was twisted from there.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

This still doesn't even come close to my definition of break the bank. Yes, under certain circumstances the Mavs could do a SNT with Detroit. But to do this the Mavs must lose players close to the contract that Billups would sign, and the trading must be done with Detroit -- ie Dumars gets to be involved. Also, let's just agree up front that Billups doesn't take the MLE, so the Mavs cannot just sign him outright.

76. Can a free agent be signed and immediately traded?

Under no circumstances can a team sign and then trade another team's free agent. But there is a rule that allows teams to re-sign their own free agents for trading purposes, called the sign-and-trade rule. Under the sign-and-trade rule, the player is re-signed and immediately traded to another team. This is done by adding a clause to the contract which stipulates that the contract is invalid if the player's rights are not traded to the specific team within 48 hours.

No other team can just SNT him only the Pistons. Any team under the Salary cap by the amount that he would sign for... ie close to max, can sign him. Not the teams under the luxury cap, the ones under the salary cap. IE their are only a few (I think 4 ) teams actually far enough under the cap at this time. These are the only teams that can sign Billups to a FA deal....those and the Pistons. The Pistons using his Bird rights can sign him to any salary they want, including going well over the luxury tax. The Pistons have the right to trade him within 48 hrs to any team, provided that the Pistons will take back within 125% of the amount of salary for the first year of the trade. If Billups signs for say 70 million over 5 years, starting at 12 million with an increase of 1mill every year, then the Pistons would have to take back 9.6m in salary for next year minimum.

Net increase in salary -- 12 - 9.6 = 2.4M Now 2.4M would more than break my bank account, but I don't think that amount is party money during his single days for Cuban.
So although he could be acquired, lets face it, it wouldn't break the bank.

Now, let's go with the odds.
Billups takes the MLE -- 1 in forget it too many 0's.
Billups signs with one of the few teams under the cap --- 1 in 200
Billups convinces Detroit to do a SNT -- 1 in 80
Billups convinces Detroit to do a SNT - Detroit decides to take back close to max salary because they can gain players/picks, Dallas is the team that offers the best players/picks/salary structure, and somehow the best team in the east and the best team in the west want to break up core players --- 1 in too many 0's.
Billups signs with the Pistons and they just pay the tax. --- 1 in 2

Possible yes -- I really think that the odds are better that we are involved in a nuclear war with Iran and their is no NBA season, than Billups ending up in Dallas next year - although I must agree it is a possibility no matter how unlikely.

Good reading for novices on the Salary cap:
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm

Oh yea, I'm about 40 as well, and Silk it would have been much easier to just admit you were wrong up front than make this into a long thread about something that odds are against ever happening.

Originally Posted by dalmations202

Good reading for novices on the Salary cap:
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm.

I posted that same link earlier in the thread as well..

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Go re-read my thread I created and break down which part was wrong.

I'll do it for Dalm.

The part where you stated the Mavs might break the bank for Billups through free agency. That was wrong.

The parts where you've stated that Cuban can find loopholes in the salary cap to sign Billups above the MLE. Those are also wrong.

The parts where you continue to insist that the rules of the Salary Cap are some intricate, impossible to know set of quasi-rules, that none of us understand. You are wrong there as well.

Edit to add:

You were also wrong:

here:

He will be 31 this year, so I dont expect a true break the bank number to get him.

(not necessarily wrong yet, but you will be. And you contradicted your previous comments, which is funny)

here:

I understand the cap, but what I am saying is that I feel that Cuban is going to break the bank this year at all costs.

You clearly do not understand the cap

here:

I am still waiting for the exact rules that state that the Mavs cant sign Billups from free agency....I sure as hell cant read the NBA trade/free agent rules to know the loop holes and whatnots on how everything works, but you are saying you can

You were already given rules, and yes you CAN read the rules of the CBA.

here:

From what I understand, that is before they start to pay the luxury tax. If this was the case, then how do teams get to

As I've said before, this is the key point. You thought the luxury tax was the only form of spending limit there was. Which is fine, if you'd just admit it.

You've also been wrong every time you claimed that people twisted your words, and every times you've claimed that you were not CreditXpert.

That's a lot of wrong.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

dalmations202,
Go re-read my thread I created and break down which part was wrong. It seems that you maybe just scanning through, but it all comes from the name of the thread.

Thig did a better job than I can in breaking it down. Just for you, I did go back and reread the entire thread though, and I stand by what I wrote.

Please dont take this the wrong way, but it is NOT your definition that the title of the thread was meant for. It was mine, so how can someone change it to fit their definition?

You when you talk odds, that has nothing to do with what I said at all. I mentioned a possible player coming to the Mavs. Nothing else. Everything else was twisted from there.

Let me Quote Bill Clinton here " I did not have sexual relations with that woman."
Also "it depends on what the definition of 'is' is."

Break the bank means spend outlandishly and Break Bank and pay Billups means to spend outlandishly to get Billups, and Mark doesn't have the luxury to do that for Billups if as you put it in your first #1 thread -- you keep the core intact. Cuban, as stated by many here, can only spend the MLE on him, and everyone agrees that Billups will command more than that.

I posted that same link earlier in the thread as well..

cool, if you will read all of it, you might get an understanding of how the CBA works.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

Thig did a better job than I can in breaking it down. Just for you, I did go back and reread the entire thread though, and I stand by what I wrote.


Let me Quote Bill Clinton here " I did not have sexual relations with that woman."
Also "it depends on what the definition of 'is' is."

Break the bank means spend outlandishly and Break Bank and pay Billups means to spend outlandishly to get Billups, and Mark doesn't have the luxury to do that for Billups if as you put it in your first #1 thread -- you keep the core intact. Cuban, as stated by many here, can only spend the MLE on him, and everyone agrees that Billups will command more than that.



cool, if you will read all of it, you might get an understanding of how the CBA works.

Lets say the situation that Chum proposed happens, then what? Are you saying that Chum needs to learn the CBA more as well? Because Chum clearly pointed out a couple of situations where by "Your Standards" would be breaking the bank.

Now if we were really wanted to get deep, then as I read this thread, there are several people here who claim to be experts in the CBA. Please dont use the you just know the basics, because the basics is not what some deals are done with. It is the other advanced portion that can render many players at different places. Because clearly, it seems that most think that CBA is cut and dry just by reading it. I have a good hunch it is NOT that simple. If it was, then I would use the same reasoning and say that it is 100% impossible to sign Billups like several have suggested.

So, why is it that some of the proposed experts here have NOT attacked those posts. I wonder, because it seems that this thread is just about one-sided, but I see that Chum and couple of others pointed out some situations that it could happen.

Let me make an example as well:

You want to start your own 17under AAU team, and your first player you want to get is a tough center who can anchor your team. You choose to get a 6'3 center with alot of size, so that is who you choose. I on the other hand, tell you that you are stupid because you need to get a tough center who is at least 6'7 in order to compete. Where did I go wrong at when I called you stupid? Simple, solution. It is YOUR team. It does not matter what I think, you are the one who felt the 6'3 player is the best fit for YOUR team.

[mary]

[capitalcity]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Let me make an example as well:

You want to start your own 17under AAU team, and your first player you want to get is a tough center who can anchor your team. You choose to get a 6'3 center with alot of size, so that is who you choose. I on the other hand, tell you that you are stupid because you need to get a tough center who is at least 6'7 in order to compete. Where did I go wrong at when I called you stupid? Simple, solution. It is YOUR team. It does not matter what I think, you are the one who felt the 6'3 player is the best fit for YOUR team.

The WTF cherry on top of a WTF thread.

Seriously, WTF?

[bernardos70]

I really seriously think this thread should be closed, because it cannot get any better. Think of it as retiring a jersey.

IB4TL

[mary]

This can be the Barry Sanders of all threads.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

Thig did a better job than I can in breaking it down. Just for you, I did go back and reread the entire thread though, and I stand by what I wrote.


Let me Quote Bill Clinton here " I did not have sexual relations with that woman."
Also "it depends on what the definition of 'is' is."

Break the bank means spend outlandishly and Break Bank and pay Billups means to spend outlandishly to get Billups, and Mark doesn't have the luxury to do that for Billups if as you put it in your first #1 thread -- you keep the core intact. Cuban, as stated by many here, can only spend the MLE on him, and everyone agrees that Billups will command more than that.



cool, if you will read all of it, you might get an understanding of how the CBA works.

dalmations202,
Lil Small talk here:
How do you feel about the limitation of deferred compensation when it comes to signing free agents? Can you see how it could help get Billups here?

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

dalmations202,
Lil Small talk here:
How do you feel about the limitation of deferred compensation when it comes to signing free agents? Can you see how it could help get Billups here?

Well, I can't speak for Dalm, but I don't see how it would help here. Deferred compensation is applied to the cap in the year it is earned, not in the year it is paid. So you can give a guy a one year contract for 100 million dollars, and defer all but one dollor of it for 100 hundred years, and that 100 million will stil count towards the cap that season.

So even with deferred compensation, we STILL can't give Billups more than the MLE in free agency.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

If the Mavs decide to break the bank this off-season and keep the core intact, then I say break the bank on Billips. He brings toughness, defense, leadership, big shot taker and will post guards down low.

I think Billips is the best fit for the Mavs coming from the free agency market. If we get Billips, then I say get a true SG for Harris. Maybe trade Harris for Maggette.

Take a look at this and tell me what you think:

1. Billips-------PG
2. Howard----SG
3. Magette----SF
4. Dirk--------PF
5. Damp/Diop--Center

Now look at the bench...Terry/Stack/Diop/DJ and company.

I really like this line-up if we are not going to get rid of Dirk or Howard. I see this line-up winning it all. I see Billips being the on-floor leader that we are missing, plus his experience and toughness would be nice, plus I think Billips would be an Avery guy.

98. Can I get a copy of the actual Collective Bargaining Agreement?

The Collective Bargaining Agreement is a very long legal contract between the league and the Players Association, and is written in dense legalese. It is my hope that this FAQ answers all your questions. However, if you really want the CBA, it is available from the Players Association's web site at http://www.nbpa.com/cba_articles.php. At the time of this writing, bound copies of the CBA are not available from the league office.

Unfortunately, the CBA doesn't answer every question. The NBA, like most organizations, has by-laws, which are separate and apart from whatever contracts it may make with other entities such as the Players Association. Many of the rules are contained in the NBA By-Laws, and in a third document, the NBA Constitution. While it is possible for the public to obtain the CBA, the league office says the By-Laws and Constitution are absolutely off-limits.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

98. Can I get a copy of the actual Collective Bargaining Agreement?

The Collective Bargaining Agreement is a very long legal contract between the league and the Players Association, and is written in dense legalese. It is my hope that this FAQ answers all your questions. However, if you really want the CBA, it is available from the Players Association's web site at http://www.nbpa.com/cba_articles.php. At the time of this writing, bound copies of the CBA are not available from the league office.

Unfortunately, the CBA doesn't answer every question. The NBA, like most organizations, has by-laws, which are separate and apart from whatever contracts it may make with other entities such as the Players Association. Many of the rules are contained in the NBA By-Laws, and in a third document, the NBA Constitution. While it is possible for the public to obtain the CBA, the league office says the By-Laws and Constitution are absolutely off-limits.

So, what you're saying with this post, is that the CBA is so complex that is can't be understood by mere people.

There may certainly be language in the CBA that is difficult to understand. But the information as it relates to the salary cap is VERY well understood and dissected. There are no loop holes. If there were, teams over the salary cap would use them.

Why are you continuing to argue this?

[Flacolaco]

I am so blissfully ignorant on this subject. It's great.

[capitalcity]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Why are you continuing to argue this?

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by capitalcity

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to capitalcity again.

I have to admit that was a funny as* picture.

I am back to normal, that laugh to me made everything here alright. I apologize to everyone. Sometimes laughter is the best cure. Nows lets get back to OUR Mavs....All is forgiven...

[jthig32]

Jee, thanks for your forgiveness.....

[u2sarajevo]

[bobatundi]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Jee, thanks for your forgiveness.....

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to jthig32 again.

[nashtymavsfan13]

Silk Smoov- You say that reports are saying that the Mavs are gearing up to get Billups, would you mind posting a link where you got that info from? I hadn't heard anything about that, and I'd hate to be uninformed.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Exactly. The path to the Finals is a lot easier playing in the East. May be people think because the Pistons didn't break the bank for Big Ben that they'll do the same for Billups? And its not like Silk Smoove is the only guy. There are a lot of people in Dallas who keep bringing up Billups including radio personality's and i'm just not seeing any logical way of him getting here.

Here you go. Here above Dtownsfinest has heard the same thing around here. I dont know of any published links, but it has been floating around pretty constantly here.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by nashtymavsfan13

Silk Smoov- You say that reports are saying that the Mavs are gearing up to get Billups, would you mind posting a link where you got that info from? I hadn't heard anything about that, and I'd hate to be uninformed.

Smoov claims to be privy to some sort of inside info with the Mavs. He's never divulged where he gets this from, but he claims it.

I for one haven't heard a single person on the radio discuss Billups, beyond "this team needs a PG, wouldn't it be nice if they could get Billups somehow".

[bobatundi]

well if two people on here mention it--with the second citing the first as reference--it must be true. i don't expect everyone to understand this point, as it is written in dense legalese, but I thought I'd share it anyway.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Smoov claims to be privy to some sort of inside info with the Mavs. He's never divulged where he gets this from, but he claims it.

I for one haven't heard a single person on the radio discuss Billups, beyond "this team needs a PG, wouldn't it be nice if they could get Billups somehow".

It is just another implausable assertions that Bob guy dont know

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

It is just another implausable assertions that Bob guy dont know

Translation, anyone?

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Translation, anyone?

i don't expect everyone to understand this point, as it is written in dense legalese, but I thought I'd share it anyway.

[bobatundi]

I have a friend that teaches special ed. I'll ask her if she can translate.

[Henry_VIII]

I feel like I've lost about 20 IQ points reading this thread.

[alby]

When Billups loses to the Spurs again in the Finals this year. He will not want to stay in Detroit. He will instead, sign with Dallas to have four chances during the year to beat up on Tony Parker =]

On a serious note, we lack size/athleticsm from our guards. Gerald Wallace would be an amazing pick up, it would push Josh Howard down to the 2 spot and we would have the most athletic wings in the NBA in Gerald/Jho. Looking at the Bobcats, they need a proven scorer, a vet and I would give up JET for Wallace in a heartbeat. (also Stack is a UNC guy ahem MJ)

One athletic 2/3 (like a Gerald Wallace) and a three point shooter (like a Jason Kapono) is what we need.

[mary]

Originally Posted by Henry_VIII

I feel like I've lost about 20 IQ points reading this thread.

Just out of curiosity, how many do you have left?

[Henry_VIII]

Originally Posted by mary

Just out of curiosity, how many do you have left?

More than the unnamed person who neg-rep'd me for that comment

[MavsX]

if the pistons win this series, there is no way he leaves detroit. He the cavs win, billups might walk.

[Henry_VIII]

Jerry : So were going to make the Post Office pay for my new stereo?
Kramer : It's just a write off for them.
Jerry : How is it a write off?
Kramer : They just write it off.
Jerry : Write it off what?
Kramer : Jerry all these big companies they write off everything
Jerry : You don't even know what a write off is.
Kramer : Do you?
Jerry : No. I don't.
Kramer : But they do and they are the ones writing it off.
Jerry : I wish I just had the last twenty seconds of my life back.

[NewMexiMav]

Hey, did anybody hear the rumor that Cuban was spotted in Detroit Monday night after the Pistons-Cavs game? He and Billips were seen leaving the Palace in an armored car (you know, the kind that carries lots of money around). Apparently, the bank has officially been broken and Cuban has worked through the legalese.

Go billips! Go Mavs!