Top Targets This Summer - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

alby · 06-02-2008, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgarrett

WEll right , because Damp has done alot around here to demand respect.. He s too slow to defend ON THE BALL defensively but hes good help defender! I would rather have Diop.

Underdog, thanks for the stat help for the DAMP and Delembert copmparison I was headed there. The only magic that would make me happy to see is Damp beak his tiny ass ankles in the preseason and be out all season long. provided that we sign a CENTER this summer.

not the sharpest tool in the shed

bgarrett · 06-02-2008, 09:42 AM

<----gets it.

I guess I could have been more obvious too.

AxdemxO · 06-02-2008, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

That day is done my friend....Carlisle will respect big Damp and the Kidd/Damp magic will be on!

if you can move him for a better player, fine....but I'm doubtful they could.

I highly rate Damp's post defense...both on and off the ball, he is very solid.

Exactly what I was thinking. Damp didnt play starter minutes because AJ wouldn't let him. He proved that he can play them when Kidd came over and Diop was gone. And I expect Damp to have a great year next year. It mite not be statistically, but Damp brings a lot to this team.

sike · 06-02-2008, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

Exactly what I was thinking. Damp didnt play starter minutes because AJ wouldn't let him. He proved that he can play them when Kidd came over and Diop was gone. And I expect Damp to have a great year next year. It mite not be statistically, but Damp brings a lot to this team.

well said, +rep.

Thespiralgoeson · 06-02-2008, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Lateral move??? Dalembert is easily better than Dampier (especially at rebounding):

Dampier - 6.1 ppg / 7.5 rpg / 1.5 bpg / 24.4 mpg

Dalmbert - 10.5 ppg / 10.4 rpg / 2.3 bpg / 33.2 mpg

Above all else, Dalembert plays starter-minutes for starter-pay whereas Dampier plays back-up-minutes for starter-pay (that's my biggest beef with Damp...)

Someone suggested Damp & Bass for Dalembert, but that only seems worthwhile if we're really overrating Bass around here...

Damp not playing "starter minutes" was Avery's fault, not his. On the court, Dalembert contributes nothing more than Damp does. Go to 82games.com and compare the two players. The two players are remarkably similar. Like I said, lateral move.

I'm not saying we couldn't use an upgrade at center, but you are seriously overrating dalembert. He's a nice shotblocker and not much more. Dalembert has no more offensive skills than Damp does (except he can hit his FT's) and frankly he's a lesser defender in the low-post.

bgarrett · 06-02-2008, 03:17 PM

Im not sure what seriously overrating DAlembert means. By including Bass with the trade or just talking about him? Im more of a DAmp hater than I am a Dalembert lover. It would be cool if you posted a link to 82games.com with the comparison for us:P
Just for grins I bet if you put a poll up on which player most people including mavs organization would want at our starting C spot it would be overwhelming favor of Dalembert.

Thespiralgoeson · 06-02-2008, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgarrett

Im not sure what seriously overrating DAlembert means. By including Bass with the trade or just talking about him? Im more of a DAmp hater than I am a Dalembert lover. It would be cool if you posted a link to 82games.com with the comparison for us:P
Just for grins I bet if you put a poll up on which player most people including mavs organization would want at our starting C spot it would be overwhelming favor of Dalembert.

Well if you're a "damp hater" then I have virtually no respect for you. And really who gives a rats ass what any poll would say, especially a poll from people in the Mavs organization? These people are the same geniuses who kept Avery around for another year after the Golden State fiasco. And frankly I seriously doubt the difference would be very big. If Dalembert would win such a poll it would be because he's younger, not because he's a significantly better player, because he isn't. When you throw in that they have basically the same contract, the difference between them gets even blurrier.

So when I say you're overrating Dalembert, I mean you're flat out wrong when you suggest that he's an upgrade over Dampier. They're practically the same player. I didn't post the links before because I was lazy, but since you asked, here:

Dalembert: http://www.82games.com/0708/07PHI15D.HTM
Dampier: http://www.82games.com/0708/07DAL20D.HTM

As you can clearly see, their numbers are virtually identical. They rebound at about the same rate; Dalembert's a better offensive rebounder while Damp is a better defensive rebounder. The numbers suggest that Dampier is in fact a better defender; his points allowed and FG% percentage allowed are both lower than Dalembert's. And as for scoring, their pts. per 100 possessions are in fact identical; +.9 for both players.

The point I'm trying to make is that Dalembert's higher per game averages are misleading and are only the result of the man playing more minutes. I'd wager that if Dalembert played 25 mpg, or if Damp played 32 per game, then their numbers would look almost exactly the same and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

To illustrate this, let's look at the 05-06 season, when Dalembert averaged 26.7 mpg.

PPG 7.3
RPG 8.2
APG .4
FG% .531
FT% .705
BPG 2.4
SPG .5
TO 1.62
PF 3.70

Compared to Damp's numbers this year when he averaged 24.4 mpg

PPG 6.1
RPG 7.5
APG .9
FG% .643
FT% .575
BPG 1.1
SPG .3
TO 1.1
PF 3.1

Once again, these numbers show that the two are remarkably similar players. Again, the only noticeable differences are that Dalembert is a much better shotblocker and FT shooter, while Damp has significantly better shooting percentage.

So, again, like I said, LATERAL MOVE. Dalembert is at very very best a marginal upgrade over Dampier. The only real benefit I would see to having Dalembert is that he runs the floor better and would therefore be better for a fast-breaking offense, but even after that, he's still a marginal upgrade at the most. I'm not saying Dampier is the answer for us at center, because I don't think he is. I'm just saying Dalembert isn't that guy either.

Eman · 06-02-2008, 04:19 PM

Lateral move??? Dalembert is easily better than Dampier (especially at rebounding):

Dampier - 6.1 ppg / 7.5 rpg / 1.5 bpg / 24.4 mpg

Dalmbert - 10.5 ppg / 10.4 rpg / 2.3 bpg / 33.2 mpg

Damp playing Dalembert's minutes with Carlyle as coach:

8.3 ppg / 10.2 rpg / 2.04 Bpg / 33.2 mpg

Pretty similar--- and I'd be willing to be Damp can clog a lane much better.

ty · 06-02-2008, 05:12 PM

I'm a bit confused ^

But, I assume you were trying to quote Underdog?

bgarrett · 06-03-2008, 11:11 AM

Damp is older, slower, not near as athletic and CAN't play those mins as well. He needs help doing so, always has. Hell he has a hard time making a layup with minimal contact.

I don't expect you to care but if you virtually have no respect for any Damp hater then thats gonna be tons of mavs fans!

Thespiralgoeson · 06-03-2008, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgarrett

Damp is older, slower, not near as athletic and CAN't play those mins as well. He needs help doing so, always has. Hell he has a hard time making a layup with minimal contact.

Again, Dalembert has no more offensive skill whatsoever. None. And Damp's not as fast, but he's a much better athlete than you give him credit for. He could easily play 30+ a night. Easily.

Quote:

I don't expect you to care but if you virtually have no respect for any Damp hater then thats gonna be tons of mavs fans!

Well honestly, I think most sports fans in general are idiots anyway, but I still don't think that's necessarily true. There's maybe you, Darth Ape, and a handful of others that contribute little to no insight when discussing the game. Wanting an upgrade is fine. Hating a guy for no reason isn't.

bgarrett · 06-03-2008, 12:50 PM

What? DAmp sucks, you know it and people EVERYWHERE know it!! I gave you several reasons why I hate him and why he sucks.. How many more do you want? I could go on all day and then another mavs fan that has seen him dissapoint in so many ways, so many times could step in when I get tired. He may be a nice guy but he's overpaid and contributes so little. TAlking up Damp imo isnt a way to bolster your great INSIGHT on the game. Im not gonna say you have Little to no insight because IDC but get a clue on DAmp!

DAlembert is an upgrade!

AxdemxO · 06-03-2008, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgarrett

What? DAmp sucks, you know it and people EVERYWHERE know it!! I gave you several reasons why I hate him and why he sucks.. How many more do you want? I could go on all day and then another mavs fan that has seen him dissapoint in so many ways, so many times could step in when I get tired. He may be a nice guy but he's overpaid and contributes so little. TAlking up Damp imo isnt a way to bolster your great INSIGHT on the game. Im not gonna say you have Little to no insight because IDC but get a clue on DAmp!

DAlembert is an upgrade!

I think you problem is that your expectations for our C are way to high. In this case its damp. Damp does what is needed. He defends, rebounds, brings that defensive presence and is a team player. Those are all the things that are asked of him and hes does them pretty well. Now you can bring Dalembert in here but he will have the same role. The you will be bitching about him. This teams offense is centered around Dirk, Jet, Howard, and Kidd. Our centers for the most part with this team are there to do the dirty work with this team. But next year will be a year where Kidd is set free and a fresh start. I expect Damp to have a lot more double-doubles or double digit scoring games then hes had in a while. Ill even go as far to say that he can average 10ppg 10 rbd. And if it doesnt happen I still wont be disappointed because like I said he will do all the other stuff needed. Is he over paid...yes...but which big man isnt these days including Damelbert

u2sarajevo · 06-03-2008, 02:22 PM

One consistent problem I see with Damp is his ability to get in foul trouble when we really need him not to.

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bgarrett · 06-03-2008, 02:28 PM

I think its reverse, you don't know better from a center in Dallas. We should be getting more from our C. PGs constantly slap the ball from him,weak hands, he can't finish a layup doesnt fight for the ball, HAs poor timing offensively, gets into foul trouble because he's really slow, bad footwork...I do NOT see him being a double doube guy ever. With kidd or not. If Dalembert came here and did the same things Damp did yeah i would be bitching because that production sucks. One of the few times he impressed me was when Attempted to floor Chris Paul in the playoffs.

AxdemxO · 06-03-2008, 03:06 PM

Damp was fine this year as far as foul trouble, the reason he got into foul trouble before was mostly do to other players letting their man go by and Damp playing one on 3 defense and having to foul. Go back and look at some games and you will see this happening constantly. Some of it is on Damp but a lot of it is on other players as well

bgarrett · 06-03-2008, 03:39 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymb5kcWlEkI&NR=1

hahaha this sums up Damps career...Not enough on it...or Just a lil short :P

AxdemxO · 06-03-2008, 05:23 PM

Since ur Damp hatred is obvious its pointless to continue this conversation. You cant have a fair discussion when you come in with pre conceived notions. Damp has done everything he has been asked and yes hes over paid...but like I said everyone is..soo he shouldnt be hated for that. I look forward to a great year and Damp being here and having a good year on our way to a title...GO MAVS

bgarrett · 06-03-2008, 05:59 PM

I was kidding with that vid man. I hear yah go mavs...

chosen_one8976 · 06-08-2008, 12:36 PM

Damp isnt that bad and theres a 90% chanced diop is comin back. if magliore can go back to his glory days, the mavs will be set. i doubt it will happen, but im fine with damp/diop and dont forget about malik allen. the mavs really didnt use him enough, he can hit the mid distance jumper. all of these guys can make the bunnys. damp does have bad hands though he makes up for it with his rebounding and defense...we have inside guys on our team, avery just didnt use them right. bass is only going to get better too. we just need to keep him out of the 5 spot, he a great compliment comin off the bench for dirk.

what we really need to start lookin at is the shooting guard position. jho is gone, the mavs did the same thing with harris. support him, then trade him. if not i expect carlisle to get him to start playin defense again at least, hopefully keep your fingers crossed, start takin the ball to the basket...the person that i think should be the first to go jet. i love the guy and hes a good emotional leader for this team, but hes always been a position problem for us. we should start thinkin about tradin him and possibly another player(stack or someone else to fill in) im thinkin that redd could be a possibility along with jason richardson, corey maggette (shot 38% from three), mike miller (memphis also has a ton of good young point guards to possibly get also, conley, lowry, crittenton), jamal crawford or quentin richardson, martell webster(39% from 3, probably get pretty cheap), i like franciso garcia and john salmons and beno udrih from sacremento, we could get all three for terry and wright, anthony parker from toronto actually shot 44% from 3, roger mason and nick young from washington deshawn stevenson is good but runs his mouth too much...those are the players we should look at if we're goin to trade anybody

theres alot of decent shooting guards out there that we could get without a trade too, cj miles has come up alot, dont forget about kelenna azebuke...both are restricted free agents, but both utah and gs have other players they have to worry about first

mbaur · 06-08-2008, 05:13 PM

Another Possibility:

Kaman/Maggette for Damp/Stack/Terry .. Clippers need an PG/SG and have Thornton
Redd for Howard an e.e.

Kaman/Diop
Dirk/Bass
Maggette/Wright
Redd/George/..
Kidd/Barea/Lue

Redd/Dirk are very good shooters
Maggette/Kaman are very good in post and dunk

Problem; the defense...

dude1394 · 06-08-2008, 05:34 PM

I dont' think it'll happen but I'd love to get kaman in here.

AxdemxO · 06-08-2008, 05:44 PM

Umm I love how people expect other teams to give us 2 or 3 of their top players for 1 of ours. Come on some of these trades are crazy

dude1394 · 06-08-2008, 06:02 PM

Yea Ax...that's one of the reasons I'm not a fan of the trade thread. Never really grounded in reality.

chosen_one8976 · 06-08-2008, 06:39 PM

im just pushin for a terry and another player, maybe stack or wright, for someone whose proven themselves a good possible filler for our whole at shooting guard...nobody is goin to take damp and his contract, kaman is a major reach. were goin to have to live with the people we have or sign a young center with some talent and theres not many

bgarrett · 06-08-2008, 07:58 PM

There's none! It would be nice to at least get one that can catch the lob and finish. Perhaps even hold onto the ball in the post too, that would be neat.

Im all in on getting MAggette but not sure if I would want to lose Terry to do it, I think he will flourish in the new motion system. I would rather do JHO.

Maggette could move to SG and Stack/Bass,Wright etc could fill in SF.

Without reaching too much I wonder what else we wold have to throw in with JHO to get Brevin Knight and CMAGG...

Dirkgreatness · 06-09-2008, 03:07 PM

Isn't Patrick O'Bryant a free agent? Maybe we could use him as a project center.

BGMaverick9 · 06-09-2008, 03:14 PM

Yeah, he is because GS isn't going to pick up his option. Not sure what that really means as a sign to grab him.

bgarrett · 06-09-2008, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Yeah, he is because GS isn't going to pick up his option. Not sure what that really means as a sign to grab him.

IT means GS is stacked with killer C's and as much as they want him they just can't afford to keep him.

chosen_one8976 · 06-09-2008, 03:27 PM

o'bryant isnt bad...the couple of times he got over 10 min of playin time hes gettin the same numbers as damp, he would be a decent pickup, a little thin though at 215 for a 7 footer

Dirkgreatness · 06-09-2008, 03:40 PM

I found a short highlight video of O'Bryant:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm7zNa5aCy4

BGMaverick9 · 06-09-2008, 03:59 PM

I will say this, he is LONG. He makes you pay when you lay off of him on doubles. Kidd would easily be able to find him. He has some decent post moves and he can move pretty fluidly.

You can't tell if he has a offensive game outside of 5 feet from the basket. And he's a good weakside help defender but what about actually on the ball?

bgarrett · 06-09-2008, 05:19 PM

yeah long. Crafty hands and looks a bit more agile than Damp.

Remember back when it kinda hurt to be a MFFL when this was happening?..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdPst...eature=related

chosen_one8976 · 06-09-2008, 05:30 PM

shawn bradley...the most dunked on center to ever play in the nba, lol

Dirkgreatness · 06-09-2008, 06:08 PM

I think he has way better mobility than Shawn Bradley.

bgarrett · 06-09-2008, 07:00 PM

OH yeah no doubt, the bradley post was random sry...

dude1394 · 06-09-2008, 08:58 PM

Shawn was dunked on so much because nellies defense absolutely stunk. Shawn played the scapegoat for the ole' defense being played.

Dirkgreatness · 06-11-2008, 08:23 PM

J.R. Smith anyone? I believe hes a restricted free agent. Hes only 22 and has potential to be really good.

me770706 · 06-11-2008, 08:39 PM

Smith can really score, and seems to play with solid intensity when his head is in the game. AND he has awesome tattoos

chosen_one8976 · 06-11-2008, 09:48 PM

his problem though is he jacks up too many shots and "his head" is pretty often not in the game...if someone can get him to focus and be a team player he can be a great player someday, though it could also go the other way

he wouldnt be my first choice for starting shooting guard right now, but hey, he is better than what we have now...so i wouldnt complain we if he became our starting 2 guard, plus everyone in denver has had enough of him, i doubt they would try too hard to keep him