2021-2022 Preseason and camp thread - Page 50 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-23-2021, 09:59 AM

Rumors that Derozan and Lowry want to join the Lakers. Let the FA disappointment begin!

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-23-2021, 10:00 AM

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Dtownsfinest · 07-23-2021, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Rumors that Derozan and Lowry want to join the Lakers. Let the FA disappointment begin!

How does that even work? Is it a bunch of sign and trades or are they taking pay cuts?

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-23-2021, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

How does that even work? Is it a bunch of sign and trades or are they taking pay cuts?

Good gms clear space. If Kawhi wanted to go there, then you don't think they could make that work?

Dtownsfinest · 07-23-2021, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Good gms clear space. If Kawhi wanted to go there, then you don't think they could make that work?

I'm not questioning how clearing cap space for one guy would work....I'm questioning how would you do it for two guys who on the open market should get deals ranging from 25-30 million a year....

And even then....I'm not really questioning the part about clearing the cap space to do it. I'm questioning how they are even getting these teams to agree to it. I'd assume they are offering up Kuzma.......Harrell was trash and Schroder wants a big deal....I'm more so questioning all of the above rather than just clearing the cap space which even seems like a tall task.

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-23-2021, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I'm not questioning how clearing cap space for one guy would work....I'm questioning how would you do it for two guys who on the open market should get deals ranging from 25-30 million a year....

And even then....I'm not really questioning the part about clearing the cap space to do it. I'm questioning how they are even getting these teams to agree to it. I'd assume they are offering up Kuzma.......Harrell was trash and Schroder wants a big deal....I'm more so questioning all of the above rather than just clearing the cap space which even seems like a tall task.

I'm sure Lowry takes a pay cut. Not sure about Derozan.

I just know that these over the cap teams always manage to create space for the player that wants to play for them. Miami with Jimmy Butler is one of the more recent examples.

BPo001 · 07-23-2021, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I'm sure Lowry takes a pay cut. Not sure about Derozan.

I just know that these over the cap teams always manage to create space for the player that wants to play for them. Miami with Jimmy Butler is one of the more recent examples.

I was actually thinking the other way around. DD takes a pay cut because he wants a ring. Lowry has one and prob just looking for a last big pay day. Plus isn’t DD from LA?

Dtownsfinest · 07-23-2021, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

I was actually thinking the other way around. DD takes a pay cut because he wants a ring. Lowry has one and prob just looking for a last big pay day. Plus isn’t DD from LA?

Yeah maybe Demar takes a pay cut to play for his hometown team......but I See no reason for why Lowry would. Lowry's career is cemented....he got his ring....got all the accolades he's going to get....I sort of thought he was looking for one last payday myself.

Dtownsfinest · 07-23-2021, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I'm sure Lowry takes a pay cut. Not sure about Derozan.

I just know that these over the cap teams always manage to create space for the player that wants to play for them. Miami with Jimmy Butler is one of the more recent examples.

I agree they do seem to be able to do to it for one player. Hell I'm not even saying the Lakers can't....but man its going to take a lot of stupid teams to help them out. Taking on contracts and players they shouldn't even want.

saclare · 07-23-2021, 03:39 PM

I'd be interested in Lowry here. Would be curious what kind of money he would try and command.

Kidd Karma · 07-23-2021, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I'm not questioning how clearing cap space for one guy would work....I'm questioning how would you do it for two guys who on the open market should get deals ranging from 25-30 million a year....

And even then....I'm not really questioning the part about clearing the cap space to do it. I'm questioning how they are even getting these teams to agree to it. I'd assume they are offering up Kuzma.......Harrell was trash and Schroder wants a big deal....I'm more so questioning all of the above rather than just clearing the cap space which even seems like a tall task.

At this point, if both want the Lakers, the players will have to make some concessions to make it work. You can't just say I want the Lakers and 30 million per over 3 years. Lowry and DeRozan got to be reasonable.

AD and LBJ combine are 76 million on 112 million dollar cap, that's 36 million for the other 10 players.....even before accounting for KCP and Kuzma's combined 26 million. Harrell will probably opt in too. So 1 million on the cap. Sign and Trade for KCP or Kuzma along with Harrell, is 22 million....even a rumor like the Lakers going after Westbrook is farfetched as he's raking in 44 million....will a trade work? Schroder resigned at 20 million, Harrell 9 million, Kuzma and KCP 55 million going back.....but there isn't a team after the first 110 million.

Melonhead · 07-23-2021, 07:11 PM

Stein reporting Mavs going all out for Kawhi lol sell the team Cuban

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-23-2021, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Stein reporting Mavs going all out for Kawhi lol sell the team Cuban

I guess my question is this...

Do we have a better shot at the other FAs versus signing Kawhi? Like, I get that it's a ridiculous long shot, but I'm not really sure we have better chances at Derozan or Norman Powell types. I actually think we are in the best position to pitch a big time FA than we have been in a long time. And we nearly beat the team that, with a healthy Leonard, would likely have gone all the way. And this is the last time we will have cap space once Luka's supermax kicks in.

Again, I don't think our chances our high with Leonard, but I don't think they are high with any of the known names either.

turin · 07-23-2021, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Stein reporting Mavs going all out for Kawhi lol sell the team Cuban

WTH? I guess we just don't have enough money tied up in players with questionable availability who demand constant load management.

Gawd, I can't stand Cuban.

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DevinHarriswillstart · 07-23-2021, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turin

WTH? I guess we just don't have enough money tied up in players with questionable availability who demand constant load management.

Gawd, I can't stand Cuban.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

lol this has to be a bit...

Melonhead · 07-23-2021, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I guess my question is this...

Do we have a better shot at the other FAs versus signing Kawhi? Like, I get that it's a ridiculous long shot, but I'm not really sure we have better chances at Derozan or Norman Powell types. I actually think we are in the best position to pitch a big time FA than we have been in a long time. And we nearly beat the team that, with a healthy Leonard, would likely have gone all the way. And this is the last time we will have cap space once Luka's supermax kicks in.

Again, I don't think our chances our high with Leonard, but I don't think they are high with any of the known names either.

Yeah I really believe there are free agents we have a better shot with than Kawhi. But if we’re gonna end up with nothing again, might as well keep doing the same thing the Mavs have always done: go with the most unattainable and still end up with nothing. Don’t see how anyone could not be exhausted by this same story over and over.

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-23-2021, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Yeah I really believe there are free agents we have a better shot with than Kawhi. But if we’re gonna end up with nothing again, might as well keep doing the same thing the Mavs have always done: go with the most unattainable and still end up with nothing. Don’t see how anyone could not be exhausted by this same story over and over.

Of course we are, and I fully expect failure, but I'm not convinced we have some magical path to Chris Paul, Derozan, Powell, etc. I mean, if Leonard grants you a meeting, then do you really say no?

It's just not a very good FA class.

BPo001 · 07-23-2021, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Of course we are, and I fully expect failure, but I'm not convinced we have some magical path to Chris Paul, Derozan, Powell, etc. I mean, if Leonard grants you a meeting, then do you really say no?

It's just not a very good FA class.

This. Which sucks because it’s out last shot with Luka on his rookie deal.

SMC0007 · 07-24-2021, 08:06 AM

Lol Kawhi.

There's plenty of FAs that make us better than last year. There's a difference in being aggressive and being desperate. He's fantastic but too much risk, and because of that...I'm out.

SMC0007 · 07-24-2021, 08:06 AM

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purplefrog · 07-24-2021, 11:40 AM

Call Klaw and tell him that he is the #1 priority for the Mavs..but he has 24 hours to make a decision and then the deal is off the table. Take it or leave it. In the meantime, you are negotiating deals with other, more likely suspects. MBT should have a couple of salary dump trades ready to go if needed to make cap space. Hopefully, Nico and Co. can multi-task, a talent that appeared deficient in Donnie.

I cannot believe that Nico would take this position only to become a yes-man for Cuban. I just don't believe it.

SMC0007 · 07-24-2021, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplefrog

Call Klaw and tell him that he is the #1 priority for the Mavs..but he has 24 hours to make a decision and then the deal is off the table. Take it or leave it. In the meantime, you are negotiating deals with other, more likely suspects. MBT should have a couple of salary dump trades ready to go if needed to make cap space. Hopefully, Nico and Co. can multi-task, a talent that appeared deficient in Donnie.

I cannot believe that Nico would take this position only to become a yes-man for Cuban. I just don't believe it.

Not aiming this at you, just responding about this kawhi idea in general.

They can't technically make calls until everyone else can make calls right? No way I would wait on a guy who can go anywhere he wants AND yet is injured and might not even play next season at all. That's just wild, when we have a max guy who could miss time next season as well.

It's better than no move at all but for Fs sake putting our eggs in that basket is desperate beyond reason. There are guys that make us better and we have a habit of missing them for shit like this.

Let's fire the GM, change the coach but use the same approach that has only failed in the past. That's a good way to get the fan base hating you right out the gate before the 1st season even starts.

Bryan_Wilson · 07-24-2021, 02:01 PM

Well this year's FA class is pure garbage. If Derozan isn't interested then Kawhi may as well be pursued if he is interested. I'd rather strike out on Kawhi then sign margin players like Hood and Holmes and expect some drastic change. This FA class is so bad that all these guys are going to be overpaid imo... it's the year of Mozgov-esque contracts all over again.

Edit- I hated pursuing superstars and plan powder but this is entirely different. There just aren't a lot of guys this free agency and the guys who should be in the 15-18 range will likely be in the 20-25 range and guys 8-10 will be 15ish because of it. If things go poorly we might have to mortgage whatever future picks we can and guys like Brunson and/or Kleber to get a trade done because they have to make changes.

purplefrog · 07-24-2021, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Not aiming this at you, just responding about this kawhi idea in general.

They can't technically make calls until everyone else can make calls right? No way I would wait on a guy who can go anywhere he wants AND yet is injured and might not even play next season at all. That's just wild, when we have a max guy who could miss time next season as well.

It's better than no move at all but for Fs sake putting our eggs in that basket is desperate beyond reason. There are guys that make us better and we have a habit of missing them for shit like this.

Let's fire the GM, change the coach but use the same approach that has only failed in the past. That's a good way to get the fan base hating you right out the gate before the 1st season even starts.

There is a slim chance that Klaw wants to be in Dallas with Luka. Slim, but I wouldn't say zero. I am OK with testing the waters with a very short lived, no nonsense offer on the table at the ring of the bell to FA. My suggestion was to simultaneously make offers to other FAs that are more realistic targets. If the planets all align and everyone wants to become a Mav, well then you have a problem with the cap. That is why you need to have some back-up salary dumps ready to go in the unlikely event the Mavs are suddenly flush with FAs ready to sign on the dotted line. Is there a rule that you have to make these offers sequentially to be sure there is no chance you go over the cap? If there is, then I am not aware of it.

I am not real excited about signing another injured player with a huge contract either. But, it seems to me if Klaw wants in on the Mavs future, then you have to consider that as tempting.

I totally agree that waiting for the #1 star theoretically on the FA market is a bad idea, and one that has blown up in the face of the MBT time and time again. In many ways, I would rather see the Mavs make a winning offer to someone like Holmes to help fix one glaring problem rather than ending up empty handed. While Holmes does not solve the most glaring problem for the Mavs, he does help solve a problem.

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-24-2021, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Not aiming this at you, just responding about this kawhi idea in general.

They can't technically make calls until everyone else can make calls right? No way I would wait on a guy who can go anywhere he wants AND yet is injured and might not even play next season at all. That's just wild, when we have a max guy who could miss time next season as well.

It's better than no move at all but for Fs sake putting our eggs in that basket is desperate beyond reason. There are guys that make us better and we have a habit of missing them for shit like this.

Let's fire the GM, change the coach but use the same approach that has only failed in the past. That's a good way to get the fan base hating you right out the gate before the 1st season even starts.

But maybe a new coach and GM is exactly what was lacking. Donnie Nelson was basically the worst GM imaginable when it came to FA.

It's just puzzling to me. People want to get Luka help, but now trying to get stars to play with him is futile? Getting Leonard or Beal or whoever will NEVER be an easy task. But the idea that we shouldn't even bother is pretty ridiculous. And the main reason for that is I just don't buy that we have some greater chance at the 2nd tier guys. Does offering Derozan 30 mil a year the start of FA guarantee he signs with you?

SMC0007 · 07-24-2021, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

But maybe a new coach and GM is exactly what was lacking. Donnie Nelson was basically the worst GM imaginable when it came to FA.

It's just puzzling to me. People want to get Luka help, but now trying to get stars to play with him is futile? Getting Leonard or Beal or whoever will NEVER be an easy task. But the idea that we shouldn't even bother is pretty ridiculous. And the main reason for that is I just don't buy that we have some greater chance at the 2nd tier guys. Does offering Derozan 30 mil a year the start of FA guarantee he signs with you?

Of course there's a greater chance of 2nd tier guys signing than Kawhi, and more importantly they can help all season and not 2 seasons from now. Doesn't exactly have to be Derozan but ihe would be nice. If I had to choose DDR next season and beyond or Luka and scrubs all next season to have Kawhi fresh off a year off from injury on load mgmt the following season, the choice is easy...for me.

Yea, we do need Luka some help but telling him we kinda got you help but we can't use him until hopeful the season after next is tough. Can't imagine he would be jumping for joy about that.

SMC0007 · 07-24-2021, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplefrog

There is a slim chance that Klaw wants to be in Dallas with Luka. Slim, but I wouldn't say zero. I am OK with testing the waters with a very short lived, no nonsense offer on the table at the ring of the bell to FA. My suggestion was to simultaneously make offers to other FAs that are more realistic targets. If the planets all align and everyone wants to become a Mav, well then you have a problem with the cap. That is why you need to have some back-up salary dumps ready to go in the unlikely event the Mavs are suddenly flush with FAs ready to sign on the dotted line. Is there a rule that you have to make these offers sequentially to be sure there is no chance you go over the cap? If there is, then I am not aware of it.

I am not real excited about signing another injured player with a huge contract either. But, it seems to me if Klaw wants in on the Mavs future, then you have to consider that as tempting.

I totally agree that waiting for the #1 star theoretically on the FA market is a bad idea, and one that has blown up in the face of the MBT time and time again. In many ways, I would rather see the Mavs make a winning offer to someone like Holmes to help fix one glaring problem rather than ending up empty handed. While Holmes does not solve the most glaring problem for the Mavs, he does help solve a problem.

They probably make calls to Kwi, maybe the Wizz, but I certainly think they are smart enough not to pass up on more realistic targets like Holmes, DDR etc.

Melonhead · 07-24-2021, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

But maybe a new coach and GM is exactly what was lacking. Donnie Nelson was basically the worst GM imaginable when it came to FA.

It's just puzzling to me. People want to get Luka help, but now trying to get stars to play with him is futile? Getting Leonard or Beal or whoever will NEVER be an easy task. But the idea that we shouldn't even bother is pretty ridiculous. And the main reason for that is I just don't buy that we have some greater chance at the 2nd tier guys. Does offering Derozan 30 mil a year the start of FA guarantee he signs with you?

Cuban logged onto your account is the only thing I can come up with.

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-24-2021, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Cuban logged onto your account is the only thing I can come up with.

Go back to twitter.

Melonhead · 07-24-2021, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Go back to twitter.

Uh okay

rimrocker · 07-24-2021, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Well this year's FA class is pure garbage.

I remember not so long ago when the main talk on this board and other boards was about structuring contracts to create cap space for the rich 2021 FA class.
Things drastically changed...especially when Giannis stayed in Milwaukee.

turin · 07-24-2021, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Lol Kawhi.

There's plenty of FAs that make us better than last year. There's a difference in being aggressive and being desperate. He's fantastic but too much risk, and because of that...I'm out.

This, and it's a waste of time. He's not coming to Dallas, and we don't need to be sitting on our hands waiting for him to make a decision.

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turin · 07-24-2021, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Not aiming this at you, just responding about this kawhi idea in general.

They can't technically make calls until everyone else can make calls right? No way I would wait on a guy who can go anywhere he wants AND yet is injured and might not even play next season at all. That's just wild, when we have a max guy who could miss time next season as well.

It's better than no move at all but for Fs sake putting our eggs in that basket is desperate beyond reason. There are guys that make us better and we have a habit of missing them for shit like this.

Let's fire the GM, change the coach but use the same approach that has only failed in the past. That's a good way to get the fan base hating you right out the gate before the 1st season even starts.

Agree, but it's too late for Cuban. I already hate him. ;-)

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SMC0007 · 07-24-2021, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turin

Agree, but it's too late for Cuban. I already hate him. ;-)

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Haha. Ifk if I hate him, but I definitely think he's a douche weasel.

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-24-2021, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

I remember not so long ago when the main talk on this board and other boards was about structuring contracts to create cap space for the rich 2021 FA class.
Things drastically changed...especially when Giannis stayed in Milwaukee.

Yep, but getting Giannis was just as much of a pipedream as any other superstar. So if Giannis was a FA this summer, waited to make a decision, then would everyone lose their shit over it?

I'm just trying to get through this point that in this day and age even tier 2 and 3 guys are really hard to get.

Remember when we all thought we were getting Kemba Walker in 2019 just for Boston to clear Horford off the books and sign him?

FA is shitty, and we're going to miss out on guys again. Doesn't mean you shouldn't try.

What if Derozan doesn't even give us a meeting but Kawhi does? Should we just say no because Kawhi is a long shot?

I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no logic in that.

And we don't even know if we do get a meeting with Kawhi, but if he grants it, then you'd be dumb not to take it.

SMC0007 · 07-24-2021, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Yep, but getting Giannis was just as much of a pipedream as any other superstar. So if Giannis was a FA this summer, waited to make a decision, then would everyone lose their shit over it?

I'm just trying to get through this point that in this day and age even tier 2 and 3 guys are really hard to get.

Remember when we all thought we were getting Kemba Walker in 2019 just for Boston to clear Horford off the books and sign him?

FA is shitty, and we're going to miss out on guys again. Doesn't mean you shouldn't try.

What if Derozan doesn't even give us a meeting but Kawhi does? Should we just say no because Kawhi is a long shot?

I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no logic in that.

And we don't even know if we do get a meeting with Kawhi, but if he grants it, then you'd be dumb not to take it.

The FA isn't shifty though and we have space to upgrade. I don't think there are too many teams in competition for FAs.

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-25-2021, 07:24 AM

So Schroder apparently wants 100 million. This is exactly what I'm talking about with regards to FA. I'm sure you could get him or Dinwiddie right away. Dinwiddie reportedly wants 125 million. You think either of these guys are worth that price?

Dtownsfinest · 07-25-2021, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

So Schroder apparently wants 100 million. This is exactly what I'm talking about with regards to FA. I'm sure you could get him or Dinwiddie right away. Dinwiddie reportedly wants 125 million. You think either of these guys are worth that price?

I don't see why they couldn't. Would a contender do it? No. Would a bad team do it that has salary cap to spend? Oh yeah.

BPo001 · 07-25-2021, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

So Schroder apparently wants 100 million. This is exactly what I'm talking about with regards to FA. I'm sure you could get him or Dinwiddie right away. Dinwiddie reportedly wants 125 million. You think either of these guys are worth that price?

Absolutely not.

SMC0007 · 07-25-2021, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

So Schroder apparently wants 100 million. This is exactly what I'm talking about with regards to FA. I'm sure you could get him or Dinwiddie right away. Dinwiddie reportedly wants 125 million. You think either of these guys are worth that price?

They can want in one hand and sht in the other and see which one fill up faster.