The Official "Knicks to the Lottery" Thread - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

MavKikiNYC · 02-18-2004, 06:09 PM

Are Mavericks competing with NYKs for Dampier?

Knicks Are Still Pursuing Wallace and Dampier
By LIZ ROBBINS

Published: February 18, 2004

Isiah Thomas made one deal for the Knicks this week, and he is pushing to make a second one by tomorrow's 3 p.m. trading deadline. He still hopes to obtain one of two post players who have been high on his wish list: Atlanta's Rasheed Wallace or Golden State's Erick Dampier.

The Hawks are trying to move Wallace a week after acquiring him in a multiplayer trade. Bill Strickland, Wallace's agent, was at Madison Square Garden last night to see another client, Allan Houston, and to speak with Thomas.

Strickland confirmed Wallace's strong interest in playing in New York. "Our preference is to make that now, before the deadline, but Rasheed would be willing to explore the option of a midlevel exception this summer," Strickland said.

A minimum of five teams are interested in Wallace, but Strickland would not comment about specifics. Detroit, Dallas and Philadelphia have expressed interest.

The Knicks may not have enough pieces to make a straight-up deal for Wallace, who will make $16.9 million this season, his final one before he becomes a free agent this summer.

A person familiar with Thomas's thinking said the Knicks would have to offer Kurt Thomas, Othella Harrington, Dikembe Mutombo and a player like Mike Sweetney or Frank Williams.

To complete a trade for Wallace, a two-time All-Star, Isiah Thomas would most likely have to involve at least one other team.

"You bring his name up to anybody in this league, and every coach is going to go, `Wow,' " Pistons Coach Larry Brown said of Wallace before last night's 92-88 loss to the Knicks. "And every teammate he's ever been with has been pretty positive with him."

It is clear to people around the league that Isiah Thomas still wants the Knicks to get bigger, tougher and quicker. And that could mean he might still trade Kurt Thomas to get Dampier, a 6-foot-11 center. Dampier is having the best season of his eight-year career and fits Thomas's plan for an inside presence.

Dampier is averaging 11.6 rebounds and 11.9 points, but Golden State is shopping him. The team is concerned that he will exercise his opt-out clause and relinquish the final two seasons, worth $17 million.

Indiana and Memphis are pursuing Dampier. The Knicks would have to include more than Kurt Thomas to make the salaries match, and add Williams or Sweetney.

The former Celtics forward Vin Baker is expected to clear waivers today, and Thomas affirmed Monday that he was still interested in Baker, who is battling alcoholism. Atlanta is expected to waive Michael Doleac, according to an Eastern Conference official, and the Knicks could get him back as a free agent if another team does not claim him off waivers.

Thomas still has other chips to trade, including Moochie Norris and Shandon Anderson, whose contracts are weighty but could be used to complete a multiteam deal.

"Aside from New York, I don't think anyone makes trades in our league," Brown said.

kg_veteran · 02-26-2004, 09:36 AM

Quote:

7 Sat @ Miami
8 Sun L.A. Clippers
10 Tue @ Dallas
11 Wed @ New Orleans
17 Tue Detroit
20 Fri Utah
22 Sun Cleveland
24 Tue @ Sacramento
25 Wed @ Phoenix
27 Fri @ L.A. Clippers

I see the Clippers and Cleveland at home as the only sure wins and Dallas, Sacramento, and New Orleans as clear losses. I also don't like their chances in Miami, Phoenix or LAC. Detroit and Utah at home won't exactly be cakewalks.

They'd be extremely lucky to come out of that stretch 5-5.

Bumped to see how they're doing. 3-6 so far, with a game in LA against the Clippers tomorrow night.

But have no fear, Knicks fans. After this month ends, the Knicks are basically done with the West. They ought to do better in March and April.

Will they make up 5 games on the Bucks and slide into the No. 5 spot? I don't think so. Will they be able to hold off Toronto, Miami, Cleveland, and Philadelphia and keep the No. 6 spot? That remains to be seen. Will they make the playoffs? Yeah, I think so.

And the all important question (for purposes of our bet): Will they make it out of the first round? Of course not. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

MikeB · 02-26-2004, 10:03 AM

I think Isiah made one trade too many.
I like Nazr as a backup 5 but he is not a good defender. Tim Thomas is a coach killer...alot of talent but very little drive...as bad as Van Horn is at least he shows up 1 out of 3 games...Thomas is like 1 out of 5. The Knicks are sliding and unless they get Allan Houston back soon they will be in and done for sure. It would be cool to watch the Knicks and Pacers in the first round...nice theater. The actual games would be the second or third subplot.

MavKikiNYC · 02-29-2004, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: MikeB
I think Isiah made one trade too many.
I like Nazr as a backup 5 but he is not a good defender. Tim Thomas is a coach killer...alot of talent but very little drive...as bad as Van Horn is at least he shows up 1 out of 3 games...Thomas is like 1 out of 5. The Knicks are sliding and unless they get Allan Houston back soon they will be in and done for sure. It would be cool to watch the Knicks and Pacers in the first round...nice theater. The actual games would be the second or third subplot.

Looks like you and Chris Broussard of the NYTimes (as well as MSG fans, and unattributed NBA GMs) see things the same way.

From NYTimes 02.29.04

Van Horn Trade Could Haunt Knicks

Fans at Madison Square Garden, where an absent Keith Van Horn has become a cult hero, are not the only ones thinking that the trigger-happy Knicks president, Isiah Thomas, may have made one trade too many. Several executives said that trading Van Horn and Michael Doleac in the deal for Tim Thomas and Nazr Mohammed could haunt the Knicks.

No official would speak for attribution, but the common sentiment is that to maximize Stephon Marbury's abilities, a team must put good outside shooters around him. The Knicks have no one fitting that description other than the injured Allan Houston. So the pick-and-pop that Marbury ran so well with Van Horn and Doleac has become useless. Also, with no outside shooters to spread the floor, defenses are packing the paint and forcing the Knicks to hoist jumpers. And, Van Horn is a far better rebounder than Thomas.

Two league officials said Isiah Thomas was seduced by Tim Thomas's athleticism. Thomas looked brilliant in scoring 33 against Sacramento, but few around the league believe he will play any more consistently than he did in Milwaukee, where he exasperated team officials with his failure to reach his potential. The book on him is that he does not have the willpower to bring his best game every night.

Finally, Isiah Thomas should have questioned why Milwaukee was so eager to part with Tim Thomas when the team was playing so well. Clubs that are greatly exceeding expectations usually do not like to disrupt chemistry.

While it is too early to judge the trade, the move may have transformed the Knicks from a second-round playoff team with a puncher's chance of upsetting Detroit, Indiana or the Nets into one that is just happy to reach the postseason.

kg_veteran · 02-29-2004, 10:00 AM

The Knicks weren't getting to the second round WITH Van Horn, but they darn sure aren't getting there without him.

Fidel · 02-29-2004, 06:52 PM

Good job so far Isiah.

Now all you need to do is get rid of this guy:

and you´ve accomplished your mission.

Who cares if the team is winning.

kg_veteran · 03-01-2004, 01:05 PM

Now the media is starting to turn on the Knicks. The way the NBA Fastbreak crew was talking a few weeks ago, Isiah was a genius, Lenny Wilkens was the coach the Knicks had been missing, and Stephon Marbury was the guy that would lead the Knicks back to the top. It must really be getting bad...[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Inside Dish: The Knicks are slipping quickly

By Sean Deveney - SportingNews.com

What looked like a sure thing three weeks ago -- the Knicks in the playoffs -- suddenly has become a question mark. New York lost seven out of eight games after February 8, and the trade that netted SF Tim Thomas and C Nazr Mohammed for SF Keith Van Horn was a dud in its first two weeks. The big problem in the short term is defense. Thomas is a notoriously bad and uninterested defender. Mohammed is a power forward who can't handle the minutes the Knicks hoped he could take at center. His presence has limited C Dikembe Mutombo's contribution, and some say that's because team president Isiah Thomas has all but ordered coach Lenny Wilkens to cut Mutombo's minutes. Though Mutombo barely can move these days, he still provides a presence the Knicks need. With so much focus on the playoffs, no one is talking about the long-term financial ditch the Knicks have dug. Their salary cap is, once again, a mess, and the Van Horn deal will add about $7 million in payroll for 2004-05 and '05-06 combined (which will cost the team $14 million if the luxury tax is included). The Knicks are reportedly set to give 31-year-old PF Kurt Thomas a four-year extension at $30 million, which will prove to be a mistake. . . .

Two thoughts...

1. Why in the world did anybody think that the Milwaukee trade was going to make NY better? (Those of you that did, you know who you are...)

2. Why in the world is Isiah trying to cut Deke's minutes? I mean, his nickname rhymes with Isiah's nickname and everything. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] Also, I'd like to think that Mutombo's the best center on that team. Seems like you'd want to play the best guys you have if you're trying to make the playoffs. Right? Hmmm....

MavKikiNYC · 03-01-2004, 02:38 PM

If the NYKs, currently at 26-35 can't pull at least 36 wins and an 8th-seed playoff spot out of this season, then by all rights Thomas should be fired on the spot, crated up, rolled across 8th Ave to the post office and sent the hell back to wherever he slithered in from.

They are competing with the sorry likes of Toronto, Cleveland, Philly, Miami and Boston, for the 6,7, 8 spots, and if they can't put some distance between them and at least three of those teams, then David Stern needs to launch an investigation. Their schedule lightens up here for the final 21 games, with only 2 games against Western Conference teams--and weaker ones at that in Portland and Memphis. OTOH, they also only have 10 homegames.

The media seem to've noticed that things aren't going so swimmingly, and Starbury's 5 point (2-8 shooting), 9 turnover, 10 assist performance in yesterday's loss to the Nugs was screamin' butt-ugly. But a lot of the hardest-core NYK posters on the board I read seem plenty willing to give Zeke and open-ended account to fail, without ever asking when the payoffs are going to begin. Sooner or later, those people are going to have to get over their Layden-hating, and then they're going to look up and realize what a hole Zeke as left them in. It's coming, but they're not there yet. But for now, the entertainment has to come from watching Zeke's mess start to run down his leg, and to watch the hypocrisy of NYKs fans, who're having to pretend not to notice.

TheBaron · 03-01-2004, 03:14 PM

Buh-bye NY

Dooby · 03-01-2004, 03:18 PM

There is nothing more dangerous than the sense of entitlement in sports.

Male30Dan · 03-01-2004, 04:29 PM

You guys are so funny... When they were rolling every last one of you would not TOUCH this thread... And here you come running when they start losing some games... Well you wont see me run... This team will make the playoffs and beat whoever they play in the first round... KG and Baron/whoever else will have to drop their head, swallow that lump in their throat, and then take a lump out of their accounts to pay me and this board when this is all over... But go ahead and trash this team when it has its downs... Just dont forget humility and accountability when they have their ups...

TheBaron · 03-01-2004, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Male22Dan
You guys are so funny... When they were rolling every last one of you would not TOUCH this thread... And here you come running when they start losing some games... Well you wont see me run... This team will make the playoffs and beat whoever they play in the first round... KG and Baron/whoever else will have to drop their head, swallow that lump in their throat, and then take a lump out of their accounts to pay me and this board when this is all over... But go ahead and trash this team when it has its downs... Just dont forget humility and accountability when they have their ups...

You sound confident, Male22.

All teams experience a honeymoon period where things look rosey, but now that everyone is settled we are seeing blowouts regularly and a trend of playing no defense (which is what Isaiah Thomas said he wanted most). That is a bad sign for a team that is nine games under .500 with a healthy team.

Quote:

Just dont forget humility and accountability when they have their ups

I hope you won't either.

Quote:

This team will make the playoffs and beat whoever they play in the first round

Dear God, that is a horrible bet. Can I get in on that? They are vying for the 6,7 and 8 spots in the East which isnt a big feat (they are 6 games out of 5th place so unless there is a meltdown up top they wont see that) so they are competing with Philadelphia, Boston, Cleveland, Toronto, Philadelphia, and Miami (all within one and a half games of the three playoff spots for sub-.500 teams. Even if they turn around the 1-7 stand since the allstar break and preserve their place in the 6th spot they will face either Indiana, Detroit or New Jersey (Right now its New Jersey). Do you honestly think they will beat the only 3 Eastern playoff powers?

Can I put some money on that? I have paypal so it will be easy to transfer the cash.

BTW I wasnt even around when the thread started. A little research?

kg_veteran · 03-01-2004, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Male22Dan
You guys are so funny... When they were rolling every last one of you would not TOUCH this thread...

Nice attempt at revising history, but completely untrue. I made the bet with you when they were really "rolling". In fact, I had to listen to you and several others tell me how wrong I was. Here's a quote that I made that day:

Also, I know it's really impressive that the Knicks have now SURGED to four games UNDER .500 (23-27), but how impressive will it be when they go about 3-7 over the next 10? (If you don't believe me, take a look at their schedule.)

Don't believe the hype from the Fastbreak boys, Dan. The Knicks are still a very mediocre team.

That was on 2-4-04, and oddly enough, over the next 10 games they went 3-7. And they're still a very mediocre team. I guess maybe ol' KG knew what he was talking about...

EricaLubarsky · 03-01-2004, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: kg_veteran

Quote:

Originally posted by: Male22Dan
You guys are so funny... When they were rolling every last one of you would not TOUCH this thread...

Nice attempt at revising history, but completely untrue. I made the bet with you when they were really "rolling". In fact, I had to listen to you and several others tell me how wrong I was. Here's a quote that I made that day:

Also, I know it's really impressive that the Knicks have now SURGED to four games UNDER .500 (23-27), but how impressive will it be when they go about 3-7 over the next 10? (If you don't believe me, take a look at their schedule.)

Don't believe the hype from the Fastbreak boys, Dan. The Knicks are still a very mediocre team.

That was on 2-4-04, and oddly enough, over the next 10 games they went 3-7. And they're still a very mediocre team. I guess maybe ol' KG knew what he was talking about...

Doesnt KG always know what he's talking about? I've disagreed with him more than once and all I can say is that I ended up embarassed after discovering he was actually right nearly every time. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

Male30Dan · 03-04-2004, 02:49 PM

Nope... KG knows nothing... [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

He is simply lucky...

And as for Baron... I already told you I would place a bet with you... Read above after you requested it the first time...

Lets make it official... I have a total of 100 dollars in bets going for this... 50 to KG, (25 to him and 25 to the board) and now 50 to Baron, (same stipulations)...

And KG... I was referring to EVERYONE else regarding people disappearing when the Knicks were winning... I know you were around because we were going at it the whole time...

Its just like when the Mavs win and lose... People are so funny with their knee-jerking... You know, I think these mavs went through a pretty tough stretch there at the beginning of the year too when they were trying to learn each other... But now that NY makes all of these trades, you expect everyone to be comftorable with each other... Hypocrites is what the majority of you are... You say "GIVE DALLAS TIME TO GEL" then say "NY SUCKS BECAUSE THEY ARENT WINNING" I call bullshit!!!

*Steps off of soapbox* [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Bottom line is that NY has a lot of talent... Baron eagerly wanted to get in on the bet with the KNOWN FACT that NY couldnt beat NJ, (the team they are currently paired up with if the season ended today). But I think NY matches up with any team in the Eastern Conference EXCEPT Indiana, (but Artest injured could put NY over them). New Jersey scares me a bit, (the running game hurts NY, but I still think they can win a series with them). Detroit beats themselves, (with Wallace, who knows), and I am not scared of any other team in the East. This means that if NY gets Detroit, I guarantee a series win... If they get Indiana, it will likely be me paying the money... And if they get NJ, it could go either way!!!

I still say they are better than their record, (a lot of new pieces that have to gel - again, see the mavericks). When the playoffs roll around, and Houston is healthy again, and everyone has time to learn the nuances of each players' game, I think you will be suprised by their results...

This is a team that when focused, and really going at it with D, could actually make it to the Conference Semi's... Do I think they will? Nope, but I think they lose a tough second round matchup with Indiana...

MavKikiNYC · 03-25-2004, 08:21 AM

And the NYKs' slide continues. NY press is putting some serious burn on Lenny for some questionable decisions in late-game management that ended in NYK losses.

I have nothing against Lenny Wilkens, but I think his best coaching days are at least 5 years behind him. He's doing about the same job with this talent that Don Chaney was doing with HIS group--same mistakes, same inability to motivate, same inability to avoid player injuries, all of which just goes to highlight the petty nature of Thomas's shameful, disgraceful treatment of Chaney.

What is becoming clear (and will become clearer yet, though there's little hope, let alone 'guarantee' that the Dolan's will see anytime soon) is that Thomas is in WAY over his head. He's got a huge mess in the making, and he deserves the same harsh treatment and tough judgment that Layden got. Thomas' acquisition of an injury-prone player like Tim Thomas and mortgaging of the team's future by acquiring a player like Marbury, who isn't good enough to turn the NYKs around, are PLENTY justification for firing his loser a$$.

Let's do it.

GRIZZLIES 110, KNICKS 97
Bad News Keeps Mounting as Knicks Fall to Grizzlies
By DAVE CALDWELL

Published: March 25, 2004

Two white-haired basketball patriarchs ambled up to each other at midcourt before the Knicks played the Memphis Grizzlies last night. Memphis Coach Hubie Brown, 70, and Knicks Coach Lenny Wilkens, 66, smiled, embraced, then chatted warmly.

It was a moment in National Basketball Association history: a matchup of the two oldest coaches ever. Then the game started, and Brown showed no compassion for Wilkens. The Grizzlies tore apart the injury-plagued Knicks, 111-97, at Madison Square Garden.

The good news for the Knicks is that the regular season lasts only 10 more games. The Knicks (33-39) could have jumped into sixth place in the Eastern Conference with a victory and a Miami loss, but the Heat (34-37) beat Orlando.

The Knicks lead eighth-place Cleveland (31-39) by one game. Ninth-place Boston (31-40) trails the Knicks by a game and a half.

"We were too anxious," Wilkens said. "We shot ourselves in the foot."

Allan Houston missed his fourth straight game with a contusion of his left quadriceps muscle. Tim Thomas missed his second straight game with a strained right groin muscle. Neither is expected to play tomorrow against Toronto.

"We can't feel sorry for ourselves — things happen," said Penny Hardaway, who played despite a strained right groin and scored 9 points in 31 minutes.

The presence of Houston and Thomas might not have made a difference. Memphis (45-26), which is fifth in the Western Conference, was clearly more talented and cohesive than the Knicks.

Brown, the former Knicks coach, has not lost much energy. With Memphis leading by 21 points, Brown hollered at the Grizzlies to make a defensive stop. They did.

<u>"We are not a post-up team; we are more of a finesse team," Brown said. "So we have to get out on the break. So that is why we play the defense that we do."</u> (Editorial note from a follower of the Dallas Mavericks: Wow! Playing defense in order to generate transition offense in order to make up for a lack of a low-post game? What an interesting idea!)

Brown, stoop-shouldered and hoarse, has coached the Grizzlies to 11 victories in their last 13 games. He has Memphis playing passionate defense. The Grizzlies, who played Tuesday, hounded the Knicks into 19 turnovers, which led to 27 Memphis points.

Brown even had enough time to admonish a Knicks fan who razzed Memphis forward Shane Battier late in the game. Brown pointed to the fan and said, "We all should have children as good as this kid."

Stephon Marbury made only 9 of 23 shots and had 5 turnovers, 4 in a rough-and-tumble first half that ended with the Grizzlies leading by 20 points. Memphis led by 91-63 after Stromile Swift's layup with 42 seconds left in the third quarter.

"When you don't have your big guns out there, you have to take care of the ball," Marbury said.

The Knicks struggled even at the start, missing their first five shots and turning the ball over twice. The Grizzlies' aggressiveness rattled the Knicks into making mistakes even when no one was around.

With four and a half minutes left in the first quarter, Marbury flung an unchallenged pass downcourt that hit the sideline.

"A lot of people tend to forget this is one of the top teams in the West," Kurt Thomas said. "They have been playing exceptionally well since the All-Star break. They came out and controlled the tempo."

Memphis forward Pau Gasol, who led the Grizzlies with 23 points, followed Marbury's bad pass by hitting a layup. Thomas fouled him, and Gasol hit the free throw. That gave the Grizzlies a 19-11 lead, and the Knicks dissolved.

Swift then stole a pass from Marbury. Grizzlies guard Jason Williams pounded the ball downcourt and flipped a pass backward with his right hand to Gasol at the last possible moment.

Gasol followed with a ferocious dunk, and Wilkens called a timeout. Vin Baker, the Knicks' reserve forward, contributed a blocked shot and a rebound in the next 90 seconds, but then Marbury threw the ball away again. The fans groaned.

"You cannot play catch-up without all those guys," Marbury said.

The Knicks were booed at the end of the first quarter, and the Grizzlies scored the first 9 points of the second. The Knicks' possessions ended with a turnover, a missed shot, another turnover, another missed shot and a third turnover.

Battier sank a 3-point shot a half-second before the buzzer to give the Grizzlies a 65-45 lead. The shot was reviewed, but Battier got it off in plenty of time.

"We had the shots we wanted," Hardaway said. "We just didn't make them."

Wilkens was pleased that his team did not give up, but the 14-point deficit at the end of the game was the narrowest margin since the last minute of the first quarter.

"If we win games, we are in the playoffs," the Knicks' Nazr Mohammed said. "We can't look at other teams, because that is when you will get in trouble."

Max Power · 04-07-2004, 10:57 PM

Wednesday, April 07

The Knicks qualified for the playoffs when Memphis beat Cleveland 92-74.

MavKikiNYC · 04-08-2004, 12:06 AM

Tells you how low the Eastern Conference has fallen.

Male30Dan · 04-19-2004, 07:35 AM

Man this is bullshit...

No Houston and now likely no Thomas...

When I said they had a lot of talent, that was assuming their second stringers were going to be second stringers, not starters...

Eh well, a bet is a bet...

GO NY, (but only for the first round)!!! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

MavKikiNYC · 04-19-2004, 08:24 AM

Zeke's gotta go.

Definitely deserves to be fired.

He's thrown the team's future away, and he's not one bit better at managing injuries than Layden was. (...Okay that injury part was a joke....okay, half a joke. But Layden got reamed unfairly for things beyond his control.)

They skank into the playoffs in an historically bad year for the (L)Eastern Conference, with a record that would NOT have even QUALIFED last year. And they're just about to find out that no matter how many times he hugs Lenny Wilkens or kisses Zeke's ass, Starbury doesn't have the stones for the Big Time.

Meanwhile, the Pacers, with a REAL coach but also with an arguably LESS-talented team than last year, set a team record for wins, dominate the (L)Eastern Conference, and look like they could be a tough matchup for the Western Conference survivor.

Go figure.

kingrex · 04-19-2004, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: MavKikiNYC
Zeke's gotta go.

Definitely deserves to be fired.

He's thrown the team's future away, and he's not one bit better at managing injuries than Layden was. (...Okay that injury part was a joke....okay, half a joke. But Layden got reamed unfairly for things beyond his control.)

They skank into the playoffs in an historically bad year for the (L)Eastern Conference, with a record that would NOT have even QUALIFED last year. And they're just about to find out that no matter how many times he hugs Lenny Wilkens or kisses Zeke's ass, Starbury doesn't have the stones for the Big Time.

Meanwhile, the Pacers, with a REAL coach but also with an arguably LESS-talented team than last year, set a team record for wins, dominate the (L)Eastern Conference, and look like they could be a tough matchup for the Western Conference survivor.

Go figure.

I understand your disgust. However, I would try to give Thomas a little more slack (maybe enought to hang himself) because as GM you need at least 3 or 4 seasons to really start building a team. This is his first year and he's already brought some A-level talent to the Knicks.

Give it some time and especially in the Eastern Conference, this team will have a better chance next year.

Oh by the way, I agree with you they need a better coach.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

kingrex · 04-19-2004, 09:23 AM

the dreaded double post

MavKikiNYC · 04-22-2004, 10:34 AM

This is hilarious. Anyone see TT on TNT the other night where he shot his mouth off? It was priceless. First of all, he went off on Jason Collins, for what was a hard foul, but not a dirty foul (IMO). Then, he went off on K-Mart who basically had nothing to do with the play. Then he went off about how he was disappointed that none of his teammates backed him up on the play. Uhm.....TT, I think that means they DON'T have your back....they DON'T like you enough to incur a fine and/or suspension. Zeke has just slapped so many spare parts together that don't particularly fit, that there's not really any particular chemistry or bond.

TThomas was hilarious though. You could just see him getting disoriented by the sea of microphones and cameras in front of him, and he kept going on and on about what he was going to do. You could see in his eyes that he didn't have any idea what he was saying, or when to stop talking. He just kept on, talking bigger and bigger.

That's another problem--Thomas has put together some fragile, LOW-IQ "talent" like Tim Thomas, and Marbury. And he deserves to be judged as harshly for his managerial mistakes as Layden was for his. No free passes.

Let the talk of lynch-mobs begin.

TIM THOMAS CALLS FOR REVENGE VS. NETS

By MARC BERMAN
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
April 22, 2004 -- A furious Tim Thomas has all but put a bounty on the Nets' heads.
In an unprecedented diatribe, Thomas repeatedly challenged his Knick teammates to retaliate tonight in Game 3 at the Garden, saying he hopes they take out a Net like he was taken out last Saturday in Game 1 while airborne for a dunk.

In his first comments since being knocked out of the Lincoln Tunnel Series by a controversial foul by Jason Collins, Thomas also slammed Kenyon Martin, calling him a "fake tough guy" and saying repeatedly he was a "fugazy" - an Italian slang reference for fake jewelry.

"My goal is just to get back out there on the court and go hit somebody," Thomas said. "That's it. That's all I'm looking forward to do. What's been done to me is going to be done to them."

Thomas' explosive remarks at yesterday's practice inflamed the situation tenfold as the Knicks host their first playoff game tonight in three years, trailing 0-2 and needing a victory more than a gang war.

"Nobody's really responded," Thomas said. "I'm just waiting for somebody to do something. I'm going to be all right off the court. My concern is on the court how we respond."

Told he's calling for an act that could affect somebody's livelihood, Thomas shot back, "Nobody cares [about me] on their behalf. I've been hearing all kind of talk. It's easy. As it's been done to me, it could be done to them. I'm just waiting to see how they respond."

But Thomas, who is out tonight and likely out for the series with a back and bruised ankle, wants payback, saying he is disappointed nothing has happened yet despite Dikembe Mutombo's declaration of war.

"Definitely," Thomas said. "Deep down inside it hurts. This is the time of year, it's war. At that time, when I was laying on the floor, I expected somebody to do something, to push or shove anybody. It never happened. But we still got two games left and I'm still waiting to see what's going to happen.

"I don't care if it was Moochie [Norris] or Frank [Williams]. In that situation, you've got to respond. You have to. They understand what it is. It's now just a matter of who's going to do what. My teammates still have time."

NBA disciplinarian Stu Jackson said he was "disturbed"by Thoams' remarks, and the sensitive Martin certainly will be steaming about Thomas questioning his toughness.

"I just think he's fugazy all around, he's a fugazy guy," Thomas said. "He's fugazy as far as the whole tough-guy role. You get fined. That makes you tough? Because you're game is wild and crazy? That makes you tough. For a guy to have a wild game to get technicals and fines. That makes you tough? Why? Somebody call Don King and look it up.

"It's just fugazy. When a scuffle breaks out you have 13 guys to protect you. When it's you and somebody else, what happens next? He's a pitbull who picks and chooses who to fight."

The Knicks believe Thomas is just blowing off steam, angry he may not play again until training camp.

Lenny Wilkens said Thomas is "frustrated" but added, "I think none of the players has forgotten what happened to him."

NYCdog · 04-22-2004, 12:55 PM

Knick fan here............I've seen and read through this thread for quite awhile and have been silent long enough. Time to go on the defenseive..........

Quote:

Then he went off about how he was disappointed that none of his teammates backed him up on the play. Uhm.....TT, I think that means they DON'T have your back....they DON'T like you enough to incur a fine and/or suspension. Zeke has just slapped so many spare parts together that don't particularly fit, that there's not really any particular chemistry or bond.

Let me ask you something.............Do you honestly think that from Feb 15 to now was enough time to build chemistry for this team?

As many Mav fans here know, it took the Mavs nearly half the damn season to find a bit of chemistry. It takes some teams even longer.

With all the moves Zeke has made through this season, I didn’t really expect that much, if any, chemistry to exist between the players on this team. If you did, that tells me you have never played a team sport that required playing a length of time equivelent to regular seasons in certain sports. Just because you cobble together good or bad parts doesn’t mean chemistry will exist between them immediately overnight. That takes time to build. Give this team a whole season together and I guarantee you they will have it and stick up for each other.

Quote:

That's another problem--Thomas has put together some fragile, LOW-IQ "talent" like Tim Thomas, and Marbury. And he deserves to be judged as harshly for his managerial mistakes as Layden was for his. No free passes.

1.........If Marbs is such a fragile "talent" then how did he become the heart and soul of the Suns last season? According to your assessment, they should have crashed and burned with Marbs instead of push the eventual champs Spurs to the brink in the playoffs.

2.........If this team was so fragile, then they shouldn’t have been in the playoffs to begin with.

Think about it........A fragile team spiraling downward late in the season, playing in the biggest, most pressure packed media market in the country with teams following close behind them should have "caved in" to the pressure and missed the playoffs.

But this fragile team pulled it together in March instead of panicking. For that, their now in the playoffs. For that, they shouldn’t be considered as fragile.

3.........True, Zeke deserves to be judged as harshly for his managerial mistakes as Layden was for his. All general managers deserved to be judged on the same scale........its only fair.

But there's a big difference between Zeke's performance and Layden that your missing...........Layden made no successful moves at all during his tenure. Zeke's got one to his credit True, I agree Zeke might have made one too many moves and that the TT deal wasn’t a good one.

But you have to admit, Zeke's deal for Marbury breathed life into what was at the time, a life-less franchise. Before that deal, any talk of making the playoffs was totally absurd as the team presently had a 14-23 record. Since Marbs was acquired, this team hasn’t been the same. They've been much better to watch and stomach then that crap Layden assembled together and called a team.

In my view, your being way too harsh on Zeke. You forget that Layden created this whole mess from top to bottom, not Zeke. For Zeke to manage to turn this franchise around and actually make the playoffs, is an accomplishment that deserves a "free pass" in itself. Because this team definitely wasn’t making the playoffs before Zeke got here, regardless of how weak and pathetic the East is.

Furthermore, you haven’t even given Zeke nearly enough time to totally clean up this mess up. You say Zeke should be judged the same way as Layden was. Well Zeke should be entitled to have the same 5 years Layden miraculously had to either successfully clear this mess up or fail and create an even bigger nightmare. But you haven’t even given Zeke half-a-season to prove himself.

I'm reserving my judgment of Zeke for next season so I can see what moves he makes this off-season and see what it conspires to on the court. I think you should do the same and give the man a damn chance.

MavKikiNYC · 04-22-2004, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Time to go on the defenseive..........

If only the NYKs could.

So many words, so much BS. Typical.

I'll dissect it as time permits.

NYCdog · 04-22-2004, 05:38 PM

Quote:

If only the NYKs could.

So many words, so much BS. Typical.

I'll dissect it as time permits.

Kiki........

The only BS I see is this weak and lame excuse as provided by you.

"You'll dissect as time permits."

If you had the time to come up with this creative pathetic BS post, obviously you had more then enough time to bless us with more of your insightfull analysis and "dissect" my post. Once again Grade A Texas-style BS from you..........

Lets face it. We all know why your obviously stalling. Cause you need all the time in the world to try and dissect and prove wrong my defense of Zeke as GM.........which this statement below sums up

Quote:

Because this team definitely wasn’t making the playoffs before Zeke got here, regardless of how weak and pathetic the East is.

Take all the time in the world cause there's no way you can prove this wrong.

If your willing to tell me that this Knick franchise or any other franchise, including the Mavs, is better off having Scott Layden as their General Manager, once again I call BS.

And if you cant tell me that, before you waste any more of your time, just leave the BS at home. Nuff said.

madape · 04-22-2004, 05:45 PM

NYCDog - get used the losing. It's going to be a long time before this team is decent again.

Thomas held a garage sale this year and sold the team's future for a pile of dirty beans. It's hard to imagine a worse series of moves for a rebuilding team. For one, he's buiding the Knicks around Marbury - a feat three franchises have already tried to do, all failing miserably. Marbury very well could be the leagues worst franchise player. Thanks to Thomas, the Knicks are locked into him. They can't aquire another premier player. They likewise won't be able to trade him. And without draft picks or cap flexibility, they won't be able to add pieces around this piece of shit. What you see now is what you'll see for the next five years - a stinking turd of a team. The Knicks now have less talent than they did two years ago. Most importantly, Zeke has put the franchise in a position in which they won't be able to improve for years and years and years. How depressing it would be to be a Knick fan.

NYCdog · 04-22-2004, 07:08 PM

I understand what your getting at MadApe......

But I'm not yet convinced that Marbury is that bad of a player to not build around him.

I know why most of you think he's not a good player to build around. Its that conception of him being a ball hog, yet he's second in the NBA with assists. That isnt consistent with the description of a ball hog.

Most people usually follow that up with something along the lines of.........

"I don't care what his assist totals are. He wants the ball in his hands all the time, especially late in the game.......yada yada yada"

My response.........That shouldnt make him a ballhog. A point guard is supposed to have the ball in his hands, he runs the damn show, sets up the plays. Marbury doesnt just do that alone, he has the ability and can take over a game too, especially when its needed. That's part of him wanting to and being a leader, as he was in Phoenix. Most polayers who are considered as team leaders usually do that. They put the team on there back and carry them to victory when its needed. That's what sometimes makes player great. See Jordan, Bird, Olajuwon, Shaq...........

And BTW, your wrong about one thing........Three teams havent tried to build around Marbury.

Minnesota certainly didnt, they were building around Garnett. And once Marbs was gone, KG complained and said many of times that he wanted Marbury on his team, he liked his style of play. After Marbs left Minny, it took them a while to find a point guard they could settle with to keep KG happy. That was finally accomplished when the got Sam Cassell, just to keep KG in town. You have to admit, when Minny got rid of Marbury, they took a step in the wrong direction and went backwards until Garnett complained about the lack of a supporting cast last season.

In NJ, the Nets did try to build around Marbury and Keith Van Horn tandem but it just didnt fit or work with that team. There were flashes of impending brilliance on occasions but injuries seemed to be that teams downfall. Thus they were never able to play healthy all together on the court for much time to gain that chemistry that makes teams great.

But his tenure with the Suns makes me believe he is not as bad as some of you think he is. At first things didnt get off to a great start in the 01-02 season as many considered the resurgent Nets as the clear-cut early victors in the deal, particularly after New Jersey advanced to the 2002 NBA Finals. But a year later, few shared that same assessment. In the 02-03 season Marbury emerged as the young team’s leader, a team that was predicted to finish in last place. That team emerged as a suprise playoff contender, one that pushed SA to the brink of a playoff upset. Marbury's presence and leadership gave the Suns and their fans a lot of reasons to believe their team was indeed headed in the right direction. It also proved that like every other player, if you surround Marbury with the right group of players, he and the team together could shine.

EDIT.......forgot the last part.

And now look at what Marbs arrival in NYC has done for the Knicks. This team was in complete shambles with 14-23 record at the time. Like I said earlier, no one in this city in their right mind was thinking about the Knicks making the playoffs at the time. And now look at them, in the playoffs might I add. I never thought I would say that for a decade.

I'm actually proud to say that I'm a Knicks fan now. I can actually take the bag off my head and hope for the immediate future. That's what Marbury's addition has done for this team and its TRUE fans.

And for the record.........I dont care if we sold the future of this team for Marbury. Besides its not like Antonio McDyess, Howard Eisley, Milos Vujanic, and Charlie Ward, were the future of this team anyways. It was Maciej Lampe and the 2004 first rounder we gave up. I wasnt to high on Lampe being our future team leader anyways.........

And to those who say it will be a long time before the Knicks are respectable...........it isnt that long until summer time and the NBA offseason. And you guys definitely know that Zeke will have something up his sleave to satisfy the New York faithfull.

So just face the facts fellas'.......were not going away and settling for building for the future. And we certainly wont be lottery bound for a long time to come either. The future is now. Go Knicks Go!!!!!!!!!

MavKikiNYC · 04-22-2004, 09:16 PM

1) Chemistry--

You're conceding my point here, aren't you. Whether you or I or anyone else EXPECTED them to have chemistry (and obviously they do not), from the beginning IThomas promised a competitive team that would be capable of performing in the playoffs.

And it's not enough to offer the excuse that they need time to build; and 'gel'--that's what Layden spent the last 2-3 years offering. As loud-mouthed New Yorkers are so fond of pointing out, "This is New York, baby. No time to wait. Win now." The question is not whether the NYKs would be better under Layden, but rather how the bloody hell they ended up WORSE OFF with Thomas. The NYKs had slogged through to where they were able to begin to see the light at the end of the tunnel of salary cap hell. And then came Thomas.

Opinion was divided after the trade for Marbury, but it's becoming clearer that the NYKs aren't going to be anywhere near as good as Thomas promised in the short-term. And that's BEFORE being able to assess the final cost of this deal by seeing what Phoenix does with Lampe, Vujanic, the draft pick, and the cap room from Dice's contract. The NYKs have Marbruy and no cap room. Most informed observers are calling this Advantage: Suns.

So it's not really going out on a limb for you to "guarantee that this team will stick up for each other." Who cares. Can they contend? Not any time soon.

2) Marbury--

The heart and soul of the Suns? Laughable. So how come the Suns up and traded "the heart and soul" of their team the first chance they got? Colangelo recognized after 2 short seasons that he wasn't dealing with a franchise player, that Marbury isn't good enough to carry a team, and so he dumped him on the emininetly dupable I.Thomas, who needed a ticket-selling scam. That's what Zeke needed, that's what he got. The problem is that he got it at the expense of the long-term future of the team.

You think this team "pulled it together" this year to make the playoffs? Laughable. 39 wins? Only one of the worst seasons in history for the Eastern Conference lets 39 wins into the playoffs. And this pathetic bunch "pulled it together" to the tune of a 14-16 record over their last 30 games, with 22 of those games coming against Eastern Conference teams. That's "pulling it together"? That's barely even keeping it together. That's pathetic.

Marbury isn't now and won't ever be capable of carrying a championship team. It's a question of mentality and temperment, not physical talent. He was unable to co-exist with a talent of the magnitude of Kevin Garnett earlier in his career. Why? Mentality and temperment.

He was LOATHED by teammates and team officials alike in Jersey. He didn't lead that team, he dragged it. He was an absolute failure to make teammates better, and in fact, his attitude and demeanor made KVH a WORSE player.

He may've reached the apex of his career in Phoenix with players like Marion and Stoudamire. And if you want to call that blind-luck bank shot at the buzzer against the Spurs in Game 1 last year "championship mettle", well, go ahead. But it sounds just as absurd as trying to claim that they "..pushed the Spurs to the brink...". After Marbury's G1 sucker-punch gave them a 1-pt victory, they were only able to manage one other 2-point win, while along the way losing by 8, 13, 12 and 2. Brink, schmink--...maybe out in Queens.

But maybe that's where you should keep your 'fugazy' smack-talk. You post way too much to say way too little, and much of that is demonstrably wrong. Check tonight's Net v. NYK result for a real-time update of how far Starbury can take a team. It's looking more and more like they're going to go out in 4, and if they lay down like the dogs they are in G4, they will have given up a possible lottery pick for one semi-exciting playoff game in the Garden. That's a damned poor ROI.

So you and all those NYK fans who want to keep your noses pressed up into IThomas's a$$, "..givin' the man a damn chance...", you can eat his $hit all you want and call it chicken salad---...but that 0-3 stink against the Nets ain't comin' from no chicken salad.

So eat up, Buttercup.

NYCdog · 04-24-2004, 10:19 PM

Quote:

) Chemistry--

You're conceding my point here, aren't you. Whether you or I or anyone else EXPECTED them to have chemistry (and obviously they do not), from the beginning IThomas promised a competitive team that would be capable of performing in the playoffs.

And it's not enough to offer the excuse that they need time to build; and 'gel'--that's what Layden spent the last 2-3 years offering. As loud-mouthed New Yorkers are so fond of pointing out, "This is New York, baby. No time to wait. Win now." The question is not whether the NYKs would be better under Layden, but rather how the bloody hell they ended up WORSE OFF with Thomas. The NYKs had slogged through to where they were able to begin to see the light at the end of the tunnel of salary cap hell. And then came Thomas.

Opinion was divided after the trade for Marbury, but it's becoming clearer that the NYKs aren't going to be anywhere near as good as Thomas promised in the short-term. And that's BEFORE being able to assess the final cost of this deal by seeing what Phoenix does with Lampe, Vujanic, the draft pick, and the cap room from Dice's contract. The NYKs have Marbruy and no cap room. Most informed observers are calling this Advantage: Suns.

So it's not really going out on a limb for you to "guarantee that this team will stick up for each other." Who cares. Can they contend? Not any time soon.

You talk about me conceding your point..........I guess your also conceding my point as well.......

"This is New York, baby. No time to wait. Win now."........thank you Kiki, that was exactly my point.

In New York, you can't expect to start from scratch. The fans simply won't stand for the pain of a rebuilding project given the price of tickets. We want a team that can compete today, not two years from now.

So in this case, would it have been a good move to go for more cap room and rebuild this franchise?

Considering that the locals wouldnt have been to happy about rebuilding again as we have been doing for the past couple of seasons, probably not. And considering this year's free agent class (Kobe, Sheed), probably not. And Besides, you cant rebuild when you have the contracts of Allan Houston and Shandon Anderson anyways, all given to us by your man Layden.

That's why Thomas pulled the trigger on the Marbury deal, to immediately appease the demands of the local media and the fans. And its worked as the Knicks are now back in the playoffs.

And as for your conception of seeing the light at the end of the salary cap tunnel...............That's just the "bling" of Allan Houston's new Movado watch that he bought, courtesy of that fat contract he still has but doesnt really earn with the Knicks (Again Layden's doing). And Dont forget Shandon Anderson's contract either. Both those deals have 3yrs left. So much for salary cap freedom being so close.

In fact, we've been in this salary cap situation since Layden tried to divide Ewing's huge contract into several smaller but longer deals. Rather than simply allowing Ewing's enormous contract to run out, Layden acquired three role players (Luc Longley, Glen Rice and Travis Knight) with long-term contracts that tied up all the team's cap room. And when those guys didn't work out, they were shipped out for other role players with hidieous long-term contracts – Anderson, Keith Van Horn and Howard Eisley.

And note this, while Layden made no positive moves in his tenure, its not like all the players Isiah has brought in are bad players. All of the player he has brought in (Nazr, TThomas and Marbury) have been our team leaders this season. In fact, they could have been the last few seasons if they were here as well. If you followed the Knicks like I do, you would have known that. Hell, every single stinkin night, Nazr, TThomas and Marbury have to carry this team to victory.

All of Isiah's moves have worked. The Knicks have made the playoffs and I'm sure everyone saw and felt the energy that was in the Garden the other night. And despite the way this series has gone, I'm not conviced this a a bad team filled with bad players. Give this team a training camp and some time playing together to build chemistry, as well as good health (that means you Allan Houston, Kurt Thomas) and this team can compete and do well in the East. In the East, that is all you need to contend for a shot at the title........

So compared to the Layden era and its lackluster results, how is this franchise worse off with Isiah?

Quote:

) 2) Marbury--

The heart and soul of the Suns? Laughable. So how come the Suns up and traded "the heart and soul" of their team the first chance they got? Colangelo recognized after 2 short seasons that he wasn't dealing with a franchise player, that Marbury isn't good enough to carry a team, and so he dumped him on the emininetly dupable I.Thomas, who needed a ticket-selling scam. That's what Zeke needed, that's what he got. The problem is that he got it at the expense of the long-term future of the team.

You think this team "pulled it together" this year to make the playoffs? Laughable. 39 wins? Only one of the worst seasons in history for the Eastern Conference lets 39 wins into the playoffs. And this pathetic bunch "pulled it together" to the tune of a 14-16 record over their last 30 games, with 22 of those games coming against Eastern Conference teams. That's "pulling it together"? That's barely even keeping it together. That's pathetic.

Marbury isn't now and won't ever be capable of carrying a championship team. It's a question of mentality and temperment, not physical talent. He was unable to co-exist with a talent of the magnitude of Kevin Garnett earlier in his career. Why? Mentality and temperment.

He was LOATHED by teammates and team officials alike in Jersey. He didn't lead that team, he dragged it. He was an absolute failure to make teammates better, and in fact, his attitude and demeanor made KVH a WORSE player.

He may've reached the apex of his career in Phoenix with players like Marion and Stoudamire. And if you want to call that blind-luck bank shot at the buzzer against the Spurs in Game 1 last year "championship mettle", well, go ahead. But it sounds just as absurd as trying to claim that they "..pushed the Spurs to the brink...". After Marbury's G1 sucker-punch gave them a 1-pt victory, they were only able to manage one other 2-point win, while along the way losing by 8, 13, 12 and 2. Brink, schmink--...maybe out in Queens.

But maybe that's where you should keep your 'fugazy' smack-talk. You post way too much to say way too little, and much of that is demonstrably wrong. Check tonight's Net v. NYK result for a real-time update of how far Starbury can take a team. It's looking more and more like they're going to go out in 4, and if they lay down like the dogs they are in G4, they will have given up a possible lottery pick for one semi-exciting playoff game in the Garden. That's a damned poor ROI.

So you and all those NYK fans who want to keep your noses pressed up into IThomas's a$$, "..givin' the man a damn chance...", you can eat his $hit all you want and call it chicken salad---...but that 0-3 stink against the Nets ain't comin' from no chicken salad.

So eat up, Buttercup.

1............Most Suns fans are still asking why did the Suns trade away the leader and the heart and soul of a young and up-in-coming team.

2............How did they pull it together to make the playoffs?

See the end of Feburary..........After a horrible stretch like that, given the pressure and stress they face daily from us New Yorkers, it would have been easy for this team to take there ball and go home. But despite the record down the stretch not being pretty, they got the damn job done and made the playoffs.

3............I didnt need to check the Nets v. Knicks real-time update, I was watching the game. And despite him not making some shots, Steph did what he needed to do as he scored 10 of his 18 pts in the 4th quarter and stepped up, trying to lead this team to victory. Everyone saw it. Even brain-dead John Thompson doing commentary saw and mentioned it several times in the 4th quarter. If even he can see that, I'm sure you had to.[/b] And they almost pulled the game out. But let's fact it, they were under manned in this whole series, as they were tonight being without Allan Houston and TThomas. The Knicks and Marbs need Houston playing becuase they double team the heck out of Marbs. Marbs needs a good shooter by him to punish those double-teams. With Houston in the lineup, who knows how things would turn out for them.

Point is, like most other great players, if you surround Marbury with talent, he'll show you how far he can take a team.

Leave Marbury with no talent around him and you'll have the same situation Tracy McGrady has in Orlando, producing the same exact results.

4....... I'll gladly take this stinkin "Chicken Salad" Isiah Thomas is feeding me any day compared to the shit Layden tried to force-feed us with for the past 5 seasons.

MavKikiNYC · 04-25-2004, 08:08 AM

Glad to see you've worked through your grief.

Fraud.

NYCdog · 04-25-2004, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Glad to see you've worked through your grief.

Fraud.

Since you want to air out our nasty laundry that was in the PM's, I guess that leaves me no choice........

Heh, Puh-lease. After your critical comments regarding my feelings of Pat Tillman's death, both me and you know who the real fraud is here........so I suggest you take down that ribbon you sport as your avatar. Any real patriot would have felt the same way as I did. And I'm sure alot of other people here might feel the same about you if they are as patriotic about their country as I am..........

But I guess we'll never really know how they feel cause your too chicken shit to post those comments of yours. Maybe it’s because of the fear that you know people here on this board might turn this forum into a "wieney roast" session featuring you as the main course for your comments.

So before you get angry and impulsively decide to post your comments as I know you will.........choose wisely, cause your reputation is on the line.........

And BTW, if your going to take a shot at me regarding the way I felt upon hearing the news of Tillman's death, <u>why in the bloody hell would you do it here in the "Knicks to the Lottery" thread?</u>

Oh, why did I even ask that.........I already knew the answer, duh.

1.......Cause you knew if you dared try and post that garbage in the "Tillman's death" thread, D-M.com would have turned into a Hawaiian Luau, with you being the flaming pig.

2.......Just like you did earlier in this thread, its just another creative "one-liner" excuse by Shakespeare himself to try and reply my post......now your trying to change the topic in hopes of pissing me off.

Well, its not working........your just humoring me, that's all.

But I do suggest, in the effort to keep this grand discussion on track, that you keep any further posts in the context of this thread instead of destroying it with your off-topic garbage. Stick to Knicks basketball.......that is if you know anything about it.

FYI..........And as for my grief, its all for you now considering how pathetic of a soul you truly are.

EricaLubarsky · 04-25-2004, 10:34 PM

BTW

Knicks made it into the playoffs as losers and were swept out of the first round as losers. If the knicks were in the west they certainly would have been lottery fodder.

MavKikiNYC · 04-26-2004, 07:01 AM

Quote:

And BTW, if your going to take a shot at me regarding the way I felt upon hearing the news of Tillman's death, why in the bloody hell would you do it here in the "Knicks to the Lottery" thread?

I was wondering the same thing about why you mentioned this thread in your cheesy "tribute" to Pat Tillman--Text

Anything I have said was directed to you and you alone, and as it was fairly impolite, I elected not to subject the rest of the board to it.

For polite public consumption: You, NYCDog, are a grandstanding fake, slobbering about how you were so grief-stricken by an athlete's death that you could not engage in petty chatboard bickering. Then you did it anyway.

And to make matters worse, you put the man's picture in YOUR signature, as if you can somehow co-opt HIS heroism and patriotism. From everything I've read about the man, he would NOT be flattered by this type of cheap, airhead fan gesture, and to the extent that you are promoting him above the hundreds of other people who have given their lives in this war, you almost certainly do both Pat Tillman and the other soliders a dishonor. ( Re. Pat Tillman)

I find your using his picture to be in very poor taste.

MavKikiNYC · 04-26-2004, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Stick to Knicks basketball.......that is if you know anything about it.

Okay, as for NYKs basketball,

madape · 04-26-2004, 09:13 AM

Great post-season showing by the Knicks. Thier fans have a lot to be proud of.

kg_veteran · 04-26-2004, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: madape
Great post-season showing by the Knicks. Thier fans have a lot to be proud of.

Isiah has really made them into a contending force in the East.

BTW, pay up, Dan. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

kingrex · 04-26-2004, 10:02 AM

Nobody should be too surprised at the outcome of the Knicks-Nets series. This year's Knicks is an unfinished product. Isaiah has more moves to make, and I'd watch-out for this team next year in the East.

madape · 04-26-2004, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: kingrex
Nobody should be too surprised at the outcome of the Knicks-Nets series. This year's Knicks is an unfinished product. Isaiah has more moves to make, and I'd watch-out for this team next year in the East.

Yeah, with all that cap room and all the draft picks Isiah has stocked up, how could this team possibly not improve?

NYCdog · 04-26-2004, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Nobody should be too surprised at the outcome of the Knicks-Nets series. This year's Knicks is an unfinished product. Isaiah has more moves to make, and I'd watch-out for this team next year in the East.

Finally an intelligent comment..........this hits my point right on the mark. Thanks Kingrex........

And personally, even though they got swept out, I'm proud of my Knicks. Compared to the Celts, atleast the Knicks showed some heart and fought to make games 3 and 4 close. They didnt get punked and blown out on their home court like the Celts did. This Knick team fighting to win definitely made me proud. We just lost to a better team. Compared to what Layden has put this franchise and its fans through, I can accept that.

Bottom line is that our organization needed a new direction. Not just an addition or two, but new young players to bring life to this team, a new coach who brings years of experience, a whole complete a new direction compared to the dumpster Layden had this franchise stuck in.

With Zeke we have that and I for one, am very optimistic.

Hell, since Zeke arrived, we've even been a franchise with a winning record (29-25 since Zeke came in) - and that record covers additional moves which required adjustment.

Winning record........that's something this franchise failed to reach under Layden's reign of terror.

True, financially we're not in good shape, thanks in most part to Layden. But its not as bad as other teams. How do you think Bulls fans feel...there cap space is being taken up by Antonio Davis, and Eddie Robinson...hell even Scottie Pippen is just eating money for nothing. Or how about the Magic...they have a ton of cap space tied up in a guy, Grant Hill, who hasn't played in forever and probably will never play again. And you thought the Knicks had it bad......atleast cap space is being taken up by players who can produce for this team.

I think there's an immeasurable value in letting a team play together for a while. I think we have a team I and most other Knick fans would like to see gel and improve for the tuture. And in a few years TT, Hardaway and Houston (and maybe Anderson) will be tradable or can walk and to open up 40-50 million dollars in cap space. By then, this franchise will definitely be back to its winning ways.

And given that we reside in this pathetic Eastern Conference, we can definitely make some damage in the near future. We have potential for success. With Layden as GM, we never had that. That alone makes this franchise better off with Zeke manning the ship.