What is the best way to groom Harris? - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Big Shot Rob · 10-29-2006, 02:17 PM

I made this remark in another thread and decided it may be worthy of a separate thread all its own.

I view Harris' situation similiar to Tony Parker's a few years ago. Tony was a rookie and a few games into the season, Pop made a bold move and named Parker the starter.

Of course, he gave Parker hell all year long the same way he did with Sean Elliott a few years ago. He got into Tony's face and would rip him a million pieces both in practice and in games.

It made Tony develop quickly.

I have a lot of respect for Harris.

I think Aj should follow a similar approach to develop Harris.

What do you think?

nashtymavsfan13 · 10-29-2006, 03:08 PM

1. I think having Devin start is the best thing for him.

2. Who is AH?

Murphy3 · 10-29-2006, 03:22 PM

brush..

Big Shot Rob · 10-29-2006, 03:24 PM

Oops--I corrected that--AJ...Coach of the year last year--the guy we used to call the "Little General."

Windmill360 · 10-29-2006, 03:25 PM

lol i thought this was going to be a thread about Harris' hair.

Cornrows.

Locked_Up_Tonight · 10-29-2006, 04:05 PM

I think he should play him a lot through mistakes. Let him have the reins against **sorry** teams. Teams that should be easy wins... Harris needs a lot thrown at him so that he'll be ready in the big games.

birdsanctuary · 10-29-2006, 04:36 PM

I say play a small backcourt of Devin and Jet. Jet should be the 2. Josh Howard's got to step up and be an enforcer on defense, when people break through the perimeter. I also think Diop should start and Damp and DJ split minutes, or save Damp for the bigger stronger, slower centers like Shaq.

Devin
Jet
Howard
Dirk
Diop

AxdemxO · 10-29-2006, 05:04 PM

Well seeing from the way AJ does things he will not let Harris play through mistakes. I do think thats the best way to help him improve IF possible. But if AJ was gonna do that then he should have done it wit Quis too.

nashtymavsfan13 · 10-29-2006, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birdsanctuary

I say play a small backcourt of Devin and Jet. Jet should be the 2. Josh Howard's got to step up and be an enforcer on defense, when people break through the perimeter. I also think Diop should start and Damp and DJ split minutes, or save Damp for the bigger stronger, slower centers like Shaq.

Devin
Jet
Howard
Dirk
Diop

I agree with that, except I'd start Damp.

nashtymavsfan13 · 10-29-2006, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

Well seeing from the way AJ does things he will not let Harris play through mistakes. I do think thats the best way to help him improve IF possible. But if AJ was gonna do that then he should have done it wit Quis too.

The reason Quis didn't play much, and he was traded was because he's not an Avery type player, not that he made a lot of mistakes.

AxdemxO · 10-29-2006, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nashtymavsfan13

The reason Quis didn't play much, and he was traded was because he's not an Avery type player, not that he made a lot of mistakes.

Tru but he would have helped us a lot if he played more in the Miami series. But every time AJ put him out there and some1 made a mistake weather it was Qiuis or any1 else, Quis would be pulled.

G-Man · 10-29-2006, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windmill360°

lol i thought this was going to be a thread about Harris' hair.

Cornrows.

LOL

But seriously folks. I was watching the Exhibition game against SA and noticed a sequence of Parker V Harris, taking turns driving to the hoop. Neither could keep up with the other...the defender was easily scraped off by a pick. The difference was that when Duncan sets the pick, Diop has to hang back to prevent the dump pass to Tim, leaving Parker a clear path to the hoop. When Diop sets the pick, Duncan goes immediatly to the bucket to defend the Harris drive, often getting help from a third defender. Harris seemed to have his mind up that he's going to the basket no matter what. But if there are 3 guys trying to defend him, he's got to learn to pass to an open man. If he can do that, the Mavs would have a wide variety of open people to pass through.

I've seen him make a few great passes in that situation, but he needs to do it more. I think that will come with playing time. In this instance, he seemed so intent on showing Tony up, he forgot to look for team mates. If he can learn when to drive, when to pull up and when to pass, he will be a killer weapon. It just seems to be taking him forever to learn.

I also noticed a lot of attempts by Dirk and Stack to dump the ball to Diop, who seems to be much better at catching it and making a move. He got a couple of dunks and a couple of cool turn around attempts. I think Diop's offense will be one of the surprizes of the season. Maybe he learned a few things hanging out with Hakeem. If he just becomes a credible threat to catch and dunk, he will open things up a lot for Dirk and Devin, and that will be huge.

nashtymavsfan13 · 10-29-2006, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

Tru but he would have helped us a lot if he played more in the Miami series. But every time AJ put him out there and some1 made a mistake weather it was Qiuis or any1 else, Quis would be pulled.

He didn't/wouldn't play like he did in game 6 in any of the other games. Honestly, it was a fluke.

Big Shot Rob · 10-29-2006, 07:45 PM

I don't know what you mean.

Do you mean that Devin Harris is not as good as he appeared to be against SA in the playoffs last year?

I don't buy that (if that is what you mean).

I think AJ needs to give him the reins to the team and let him develop--throw him out into the water and let him develop his game.

nashtymavsfan13 · 10-29-2006, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Shot Rob

I don't know what you mean.

Do you mean that Devin Harris is not as good as he appeared to be against SA in the playoffs last year?

I don't buy that (if that is what you mean).

I think AJ needs to give him the reins to the team and let him develop--throw him out into the water and let him develop his game.

If you were referring to what I was saying, I was talking about Quisy, not Devin. I'm a big Devin supporter and I've been saying all along that he should start this year.

dude1394 · 10-29-2006, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Man

Harris seemed to have his mind up that he's going to the basket no matter what. But if there are 3 guys trying to defend him, he's got to learn to pass to an open man. If he can do that, the Mavs would have a wide variety of open people to pass through.

I've seen him make a few great passes in that situation, but he needs to do it more. I think that will come with playing time. In this instance, he seemed so intent on showing Tony up, he forgot to look for team mates. If he can learn when to drive, when to pull up and when to pass, he will be a killer weapon. It just seems to be taking him forever to learn.

Nice post gman and I think you are spot on. Devin is suffering from what Quisey was suffering from. The defenders know he's not going to pass out of the situation and is going to force up a shot. So they challenge him at the rim and he's still forcing it. He was 0-3 and 2 of them were contested blocks at the rim, without what seemed like no thought of giving the ball up. If he continues that he'll not only not start, but they'll soon start to think of moving him, because right now he's a walking turnover.

Big Shot Rob · 10-29-2006, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nashtymavsfan13

If you were referring to what I was saying, I was talking about Quisy, not Devin. I'm a big Devin supporter and I've been saying all along that he should start this year.

Okay--I knew that I had to be confused. You and I both agree.

Big Shot Rob · 10-29-2006, 08:21 PM

Harris will make better decisions the more AJ plays him.

nashtymavsfan13 · 10-29-2006, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Shot Rob

Okay--I knew that I had to be confused. You and I both agree.

Yep. I definetly support DH starting. I was resonding to Ax about Quis and why Avery didn't let him play through mistakes.

dude1394 · 10-29-2006, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Shot Rob

Harris will make better decisions the more AJ plays him.

BSR...that's pretty obvious....the question that aj is asking is does he show progress towards making those better decisions. The last game I saw he made none.

I think AJ or any coach can let a guy make mistakes as long as it seems that he's making progress towards eliminating them. If not, you can't just toss in the games.

shaw-xx · 10-29-2006, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nashtymavsfan13

He didn't/wouldn't play like he did in game 6 in any of the other games. Honestly, it was a fluke.

I agree Quis isn't Avery's player but don't necessarily think his performance in Game 6 was just a fluke. Given some mins, he can show talent. I'm always wonder the reasons why Avery didn't play Quis much. Including attitude problem? To me, he was kinda a mysterious Mav. How much is he not Avery's player? If I had a chance to ask Coach J a question, it would be about Quis.

HexNBA · 10-29-2006, 09:59 PM

a comb

Big Shot Rob · 10-29-2006, 11:38 PM

I agree that if Harris refuses to make better decisions and thus does not make any progress--there is a big problem.

I just wonder what would happen if AJ would call a timeout when Harris refuses to pass to an open teammate and instead drive into the defense, and chew his ass out like there was no tomorrow. Pop did this to Tony and it worked.

If Harris gets a chance and refuses to progress then he is nothing more than a back-up or trade bait.

MavsX · 10-30-2006, 09:27 AM

i thought this thread was going to be about a barbershop..or something cool

jayC · 10-30-2006, 05:05 PM

Devin is developing pretty well in my view. He goes from hardly any production to 9.9 points a game to winning the San Antonio series. He is still young and is the fastest mav. He needs a midrange jumpshot. Once he does that he will be an all-star.

Tokey41 · 10-30-2006, 05:44 PM

Avery should take Harris out of the game everytime he fires up an ill advised jump shot or misses a wide open teamate and proceed to whip him, literally, until he learns.

bvolt3000 · 10-30-2006, 09:09 PM

start him alongside terry
let him do waht hes good at: cutting and layups
and work on his passing

AxdemxO · 10-30-2006, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bvolt3000

start him alongside terry
let him do waht hes good at: cutting and layups
and work on his passing

I have always been against starting him, but i do think tht mite be the best way to improve him. But at the same time you cant just throw him out there because all he does is go into the lane and for layups which many times are unsuccesfull. I just think tht if you start him he would cost us more games thn he would win for us, especially in crunch time.

chumdawg · 10-30-2006, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Shot Rob

I made this remark in another thread and decided it may be worthy of a separate thread all its own.

I view Harris' situation similiar to Tony Parker's a few years ago. Tony was a rookie and a few games into the season, Pop made a bold move and named Parker the starter.

Of course, he gave Parker hell all year long the same way he did with Sean Elliott a few years ago. He got into Tony's face and would rip him a million pieces both in practice and in games.

It made Tony develop quickly.

I have a lot of respect for Harris.

I think Aj should follow a similar approach to develop Harris.

What do you think?

Already been done. Nellie threw Harris out there when he was a rookie.

That was years ago...

AxdemxO · 10-30-2006, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Already been done. Nellie threw Harris out there when he was a rookie.

That was years ago...

I have been saying that he has not improved or progressed like he should have in the last few years even though he has had the oppurtunity, but every time i bring it up i get attacked. Soo ill give it this year and if he doesnt improve then i think he will never be wht most are expecting him to be.

But i got a feeling tht some1 is getting traded befor the trade deadline, idk why just a feeling. Not saying tht Harris is, maybe Johnson or some1 else.

Big Shot Rob · 10-30-2006, 09:51 PM

My mistake--I thought Harris was a rookie last year.

What is taking so long to develop the kid?

Either you give him inutes and make him progress or you concede he is nothing more than a back-up.

But then again--I am sure that AJ knows a hell out of alot more than I, so I am sure he has figured that out.

kriD · 10-31-2006, 03:18 AM

Mavs' Harris looks for shot to grow up

Mavs point guard can look to Spurs' Parker to see how it's done

02:12 AM CST on Tuesday, October 31, 2006
By EDDIE SEFKO / The Dallas Morning News

See if you've heard this one before.

A young point guard is staggeringly quick and makes his living slicing through NBA defenses. He has to please a demanding coach and needs to work overtime on a jump shot that opponents dare him to shoot.

Tony Parker has been there. And he can sympathize with Devin Harris.

The San Antonio Spurs' point guard had to prove himself to coach Gregg Popovich, who doesn't tolerate mistakes by his floor general. Parker had a honeymoon that lasted a couple years, then went through a troublesome third season before figuring everything out in his fourth year and becoming an All-Star last season.

The Mavericks hope Harris is following the same growth chart, although they could live without that third-year slump, since that's what season Harris is entering.

In short, the honeymoon is over.

"If you want to compare me to Devin, I can see why they do that because of the speed and he's small like me and skinny and goes to the basket well," Parker said last week before the exhibition finale in San Antonio. "And he's got the same kind of coach. Avery Johnson learned a lot from Pop.

"It's tough when you play point guard for a coach who is very demanding. It's always hard to try to find that balance between scoring and passing. And I had to find that balance to make Pop happy, make my teammates happy and at the same time grow as a player. It takes time. I had some ups and downs."

Harris is going through the same sometimes-painful process. He understands that, as the No. 5 overall draft pick in 2004, certain expectations exist.

He's waiting for that illuminating moment that brings it all into focus for him.

"Hopefully, it'll all come together at some point," Harris said. "I'm still searching for it."

Harris knows the comparison between him and Parker is inevitable. Both have a game predicated on speed and attacking the basket. Parker and the Spurs will provide the competition Thursday night in the season opener for both teams at American Airlines Center. Harris hopes the results are better than in the preseason finale last week, when Parker slithered around the Mavs for 20 points on 9-of-11 shooting.

Even though the outcome didn't count, one sequence in the second quarter illustrated the difference between the two when Harris drove to the rim, but had his layup blocked. Parker got the ball in transition and lofted in a floater at the other end.

It was a symbolic moment of where the guards are in their careers.

"You have to pick your spots," Parker said. "You can't penetrate all the time. You have to choose the right moment.

"You have a gift of penetrating to the basket and a gift of speed. Use it at the right moment. And you have to work on your shot, because when you get old, you're not going to penetrate like you used to."

It's also tougher to do so when defenses know you can't do anything else. There's nothing easier to stop in the NBA than a one-trick pony. For that reason, Harris has worked hard on his shot and is trying to harness his speed and learn how to shift gears.

"He's a young point guard who's still trying to find his way and what the best fit is for him and how to play," Johnson said of Harris. "He's still on a learning curve. Tony has had an exceptional run and he's an all-star caliber player. Devin has a chance, because he has that kind of quickness. But he's got to continue to improve other areas."

Briefly: The coaching staff is staying mum on who will open in the backcourt with Jason Terry. It will either be Harris, Anthony Johnson or Greg Buckner. But whoever starts in the opener might not have the job for more than a game or two if the Mavericks run that position by committee ... Avery Johnson didn't make his players watch all of the preseason finale against San Antonio, but the coaches did. "That was some good movie time," Johnson said. "It was a horror movie."

Big Shot Rob · 11-03-2006, 04:29 PM

Is Devin still injured?

That was not the Devin Harris who played against SA in the playoffs last year.

I have to admit--I hope that the fact that we had Francisco Elson had broad impact that affected the way that Harris could play. I didn't see the lanes to penetrate like there was last season.

But if that was not the cause...

and Devin is not still feeling lingering effects from hamstring injuries (which hurt like hell)...

jusy what is going on?

capitalcity · 11-03-2006, 04:41 PM

Don't apologize... Just bring it back up in the thread you already started.

http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/showthread.php?t=27267

Drbio · 11-03-2006, 04:54 PM

That would be too easy.

Big Shot Rob · 11-03-2006, 06:25 PM

If Harris isn't hurt...and does not make any progress after getting a realistic chance this year...then I will admit: last year's performance against the Spurs was a fluke.