Mavs, Spurs on opposite sides of the ring - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

kriD · 11-02-2006, 02:37 AM

Mavs, Spurs on opposite sides of the ring

01:05 AM CST on Thursday, November 2, 2006
By EDDIE SEFKO / The Dallas Morning News

If you think the Mavericks and San Antonio Spurs have had a good rivalry for the last few seasons, you ain't seen nothin' yet, as we say here in Texas.

On Wednesday, Jerry Stackhouse pointed out a couple of key reasons why the rivalry has gone full-scale. First, it's hard to have a rivalry when one team wins all the time, which the Spurs did for years. More important, however, the most recent winners of the Western Conference have something else to stoke their feud: Venom.

Down south, the Spurs are making it clear that they don't like the fact that the Mavericks took away the West crown last spring, winning an epic seven-game series in the second round to send the Spurs home for the off-season.

"To be honest," said Michael Finley, "the only difference is that how I felt last year is how the whole team feels this year."

That would be angry at the Dallas organization after the Mavericks waived Finley, and he found refuge in south Texas.

There's a basic dislike, if not hatred, that has replaced the respect factor.

"And that's good," Stackhouse said. "That means the feeling's mutual."

What the Mavericks hope is that this era in the NBA won't remember them as the Phil Mickelsons of the hardwood. In golf, Tiger Woods has no equal in this generation. Mickelson is one of the best players ever. But because the prime of his career has hit squarely during Woods' wheelhouse, Mickelson will never be acknowledged as the best of his time.

In this era of basketball, the Mavericks are loaded and have had a terrific decade of success. They own the second-best record in the NBA since the start of the 1999-2000 season, but are well shy of the Spurs' total. And the scoreboard that counts reads: Spurs 3, Mavs 0. That's the number of championships won since the 1998-99 season.

The Mavericks won the West last season but fell short of the NBA championship. In that respect, they are still fighting to gain equal footing with the Spurs.

"We just don't like them," owner Mark Cuban said. "They had what we wanted for so many years. And we took it from them last year. They have had former Mavs, and Avery [Johnson] is a former Spur, which has raised the intensity. Plus, we feel like one of their players is more than a little dirty."

But enough about Bruce Bowen.

"There's not a lot of love between these two teams," Stackhouse said. "Obviously, they got some factors – us putting them out of the playoffs – and they're going to be ready to go. And we got to find a way to deal with this new so-called bull's-eye on our back. But we feel we can deal with it."

Tonight's season opener for both teams won't push the Mavericks ahead of the Spurs in anything other than the Southwest Division standings. But these teams are two of the best in the NBA this decade and at least one of them has earned a place among the best teams in NBA history.

The Mavericks would like to crash that party sometime in the next few years.

"We expect championships," Greg Buckner said. "If we don't win the championship, we think it's a failure. We're here to come out and win the title and bring it home to Dallas. It starts Thursday. It's a process."

Buckner, back for his second stint with Dallas after being away for four years, said he thinks last season's trip to the Finals will be a huge benefit to the Mavericks who went through it.

"They know what it tastes like," he said. "They didn't get the whole pie, but they got to taste the pie. I want to be part of eating the whole pie."

And yet, the Spurs have had their pie and gobbled it up three times in the last eight seasons. The Mavericks – a very good team during that stretch – have made just one appearance in the NBA Finals, losing to Miami in June.

But you can't win a championship in November. What you can do is send subtle messages to your greatest rival. Johnson made his mark in the league as a player. But he was coach of the year last season with the Mavericks.

"It's good for basketball," he said. "You have a team that's been successful like they've been, and you're trying to get to that level. So I think it's great. Pop (Spurs coach Gregg Popovich) and I always talk about kicking each other's behinds. That's what it's about. Tim [Duncan] wants to win. Dirk Nowitzki wants to get to the level Tim's at in terms of winning championships.

"Let's keep it going. Let's celebrate it. Our series was one of the higher-rated series because you got two of the more interesting teams.

"These teams don't have to talk to get motivated. But we still feel we're the underdog. We still feel we're trying to get to the level they've been to before."

It's the stuff rivalries need.

Thespiralgoeson · 11-02-2006, 02:49 AM

Ugh... "Championships aren't won in November..." No shit... I wish to god we didn't have to hear this same crap at the beginning of every season. But then again, at least it does mean that the season has actually begun, so I suppose I should be happy.

chumdawg · 11-02-2006, 03:02 AM

I'm sorry, but I'm not buying it. Outside of just wanting to be better than them, the Spurs are not a team that you can hate. They go about their jobs in a respectable manner. If anything the Mavericks want to BE like them.

And I don't doubt for one half of one second that Avery Johnson would welcome Bruce Bowen onto his team with open arms.

This "rivarly" isn't one played out between foes. It's one played out between brothers. Sibling rivalry is all it is.

Big Shot Rob · 11-02-2006, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I'm sorry, but I'm not buying it. Outside of just wanting to be better than them, the Spurs are not a team that you can hate. They go about their jobs in a respectable manner. If anything the Mavericks want to BE like them.

And I don't doubt for one half of one second that Avery Johnson would welcome Bruce Bowen onto his team with open arms.

This "rivarly" isn't one played out between foes. It's one played out between brothers. Sibling rivalry is all it is.

Truer words have never been spoken.

AJ would love to have a Bowen, Parker, Manu or a Tim Duncan.

Pop would go crazy if he had a Dirk, a JET, a Josh, on his team.

Pop loves AJ as a son--and Pop has publiclly said many times that he owes his entire career to Nellie.

This really is a sibling rivalry.

That is why I was so upset when Horry stated that he pulled for the Heat against the Mavs. He should have pulled for his brothers down the road who faced Shaq--who spent his entire career pissing on David Robinson.

Thespiralgoeson · 11-02-2006, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I'm sorry, but I'm not buying it. Outside of just wanting to be better than them, the Spurs are not a team that you can hate. They go about their jobs in a respectable manner. If anything the Mavericks want to BE like them.

And I don't doubt for one half of one second that Avery Johnson would welcome Bruce Bowen onto his team with open arms.

This "rivarly" isn't one played out between foes. It's one played out between brothers. Sibling rivalry is all it is.

I'm sorry chum, but I don't buy that at all. Sure, the Spurs are respectable, and the Mavs probably want to be like them. But I bet you could say the same thing about Celtics and the Pistons in the 80's, and lord knows they hated eachother's guts. The Spurs, Parker in particular, seem to just really dislike the Mavs. Mutual respect doesn't precule general disliking, or even hatred. And the respect thing doesn't seem to be mutual either. I still get the feeling that the Spurs look down their noses at the Mavs.

There seems to be a great deal of bad blood between these teams, especially on the Spurs' end directed at the Mavs.

DelNegro · 11-02-2006, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

There seems to be a great deal of bad blood between these teams, especially on the Spurs' end directed at the Mavs.

Please. I don't recall Peter Holt bashing the city of Dallas or Manu Ginobili saying we hate those guys like Stackhouse just did. The Mavs talk about the Spurs way more than the Spurs talk about the Mavs.

Thespiralgoeson · 11-02-2006, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DelNegro

Please. I don't recall Peter Holt bashing the city of Dallas or Manu Ginobili saying we hate those guys like Stackhouse just did. The Mavs talk about the Spurs way more than the Spurs talk about the Mavs.

Ginobili may not have, but Parker has talked a lot of shit about the Mavs. And Cuban's not a player, so who cares?

Big Shot Rob · 11-03-2006, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Ginobili may not have, but Parker has talked a lot of shit about the Mavs. And Cuban's not a player, so who cares?

I don't recall Parker talking a lot of trash.

I know Horry was upset--he felt the Mavs got bogus calls from refs the same way that Mavs think that Wade got bogus calls from the refs.

Bowen resents Cuban cussing him out on the court.

I was in the AT&T Center for game five in the playoffs last year. Mav fans came into our arena in groups and were picking fights all night long--going up to Spurs fans, holding up torn Duncan jerseys, talking alot of crap.

This stuff sickens me--I hate it when it happens from either side. I hated it when Horry made his comments, too.

basuketobaru · 11-02-2006, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

This "rivarly" isn't one played out between foes. It's one played out between brothers. Sibling rivalry is all it is.

Sibling rivalry can often be the fiercest kind.

MavsFanFinley · 11-02-2006, 04:58 PM

So the DMN says Finley is still bitter about being waived and the SA Express says he's moved on. I wonder which paper has the right story.

Finley settles in as one of Spurs' leaders

Web Posted: 10/31/2006 09:39 PM CST

Johnny Ludden
Express-News Staff Writer

Michael Finley hasn't forgotten the last time he walked into Dallas' American Airlines Center. The same fans he had played in front of for more than eight years booed him.
They called him a traitor. They carried signs brandishing him "Public Enemy No. 4." The day before, Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban went on the radio to complain about Finley's "acting."

Finley said he's moved on. But, as the Spurs prepare to return to Dallas for Thursday's season opener, it's clear he also hasn't forgotten.

Not the sting of being cut by the Mavericks. Or the reception he received in last season's playoffs.

"The only difference now," Finley said, "is the way I felt last year is how the whole team feels this year."

In some sense, Finley has moved on. He might have looked like a Spur last season. But now, he also feels like one.

One sign came Monday after practice. The coaches were putting Jackie Butler through an exhausting drill by having him catch the ball on the block, dunk, then repeat the same thing from the other side of the lane. The young center, a free agent signed away from the New York Knicks, stopped after a few minutes.

Chest heaving, he walked off the court and put his hands on his knees.

Finley had just completed his own workout at the opposite end of the court. He walked over to Butler, leaned in and whispered in the big man's ear. Butler nodded, turned and went back to work.

"Not by any means, do I feel that this is my team," Finley said. "I know where my role lies on this team, but when I see opportune times to say something to the team or to individuals, I feel that I have enough respect from the team this year that they will listen to me.

"Last year, for me to come in and do that right away, I don't think that was my place."

The Spurs welcome having another leader in the locker room. Last week, Finley made Butler and rookie Jamar Smith run extra after practice as punishment for earlier causing the entire team to run. Staffers hadn't seen a similar act by a player since Avery Johnson left the team.

"You have to have people on your team who set examples for the young kids," Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said. "Jackie needs that, and he has a multitude of guys to look at to see the work they do during a practice and before a practice or after a practice. It's a great environment for him."

After Butler finished his workout Monday — which ended only after he ran the length of the court six times and dunked — Finley put his arm around him and offered some more advice.

"A lot of young guys come into the league and see extra work as punishment," Finley said. "It's not punishment. It's just trying to make you a better player."

Finley speaks from experience. As a rookie in Phoenix, he shared a locker room with Charles Barkley, Kevin Johnson, A.C. Green and Danny Manning. After the Suns finished practice, assistant coaches Paul Silas and Donnie Nelson would lead Finley through additional drills.

"For me to go in and look at those guys putting in the extra effort, they didn't have to tell me much," Finley said. "I just knew I had to go out there and play.

"I had a great group of people around me. I'm just trying to spread the wealth, I guess."

Like Bruce Bowen, who often puts in his extra work before practice, Finley is meticulous about his preparation. He's been around to encourage Butler, in part, because he's still on the court doing his own work.

"He's in that Joe Dumars mold," Popovich said. "He comes to work, he does his job, and he cares about everybody."

He's also a fierce competitor. Finley claims losing to Dallas in last season's playoffs didn't bother him as much as simply losing. But this much is certain: He hasn't forgotten all that transpired during the series.

After Mavericks guard Jason Terry was suspended for jabbing Finley in the groin near the end of Game 5, Cuban complained Finley had faked the severity of the blow. "Maybe the crybaby from Tim Duncan wore off" on Finley, Cuban said in a radio interview at the time.

Finley said he has no problems with Terry, who apologized to him after Game 7. "He told me it wasn't personal," Finley said. "I know he's not that kind of guy."

As for Cuban, Finley will continue to receive checks from him for the $52 million he was owed when waived by Dallas. But he hasn't spoken to the Mavericks owner.

"I have no reason to talk to him," Finley said. "He's his own man, and I guess he made comments he's going to stand on. That's on him."

capitalcity · 11-02-2006, 03:39 AM

Chum did you ever stop to think that some of us hate the spurs as much as you love steve cash?

"Hard to hate?" Hardly.

George Gervin · 11-02-2006, 07:56 AM

We don't like them. They don't like us," Stackhouse told the Fort Worth Star-Telegram this week. "That's it. It may all sound sweet when you're talking to the media, but when you actually get between those lines, man for man, I don't like them.
"You can write it down. Put it in present tense. Whatever you want to."
Horry attributed Stackhouse's comments and Cuban's conduct to "a little bit of jealousy."
"They're the only team in Texas," Horry said, "that doesn't have a championship."
We just know there's a team in our way to try to win the championship," Horry said. "They have nothing we want. The only people that have something we want are the Miami Heat.
"All these other banners ... Western Conference champions ... that don't mean nothing. That's just like winning a medium battle in a big-ass war

Maybe this will help the hate factor chum..

dude1394 · 11-02-2006, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Gervin

We don't like them. They don't like us," Stackhouse told the Fort Worth Star-Telegram this week. "That's it. It may all sound sweet when you're talking to the media, but when you actually get between those lines, man for man, I don't like them.
"You can write it down. Put it in present tense. Whatever you want to."
Horry attributed Stackhouse's comments and Cuban's conduct to "a little bit of jealousy."
"They're the only team in Texas," Horry said, "that doesn't have a championship."
We just know there's a team in our way to try to win the championship," Horry said. "They have nothing we want. The only people that have something we want are the Miami Heat.
"All these other banners ... Western Conference champions ... that don't mean nothing. That's just like winning a medium battle in a big-ass war

Maybe this will help the hate factor chum..

If you try hard you can post this in every thread. Horry is way over the hill to be talking trash.

George Gervin · 11-02-2006, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

If you try hard you can post this in every thread. Horry is way over the hill to be talking trash.

Come on you have to admit it adds to the fire..!

dude1394 · 11-02-2006, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Gervin

Come on you have to admit it adds to the fire..!

Hell they are both over the hill talking trash to some extent, hoping the young'ns will back up their bravado.

But in an alley-fight I think I'll take stackhouse. Maybe horry can get a little ear bite in this year instead of an arm.

dude1394 · 11-02-2006, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kriD

[B][SIZE="3"]"To be honest," said Michael Finley, "the only difference is that how I felt last year is how the whole team feels this year."

That would be angry at the Dallas organization after the Mavericks waived Finley, and he found refuge in south Texas.

Poor,poor mikey. Boo hoo.

Quote:

There's a basic dislike, if not hatred, that has replaced the respect factor.

"And that's good," Stackhouse said. "That means the feeling's mutual."

Damn straight jerry.

MavsX · 11-02-2006, 08:44 AM

i effing hate the spurs

Flacolaco · 11-02-2006, 12:15 PM

Quote:

"They know what it tastes like," he said. "They didn't get the whole pie, but they got to taste the pie. I want to be part of eating the whole pie."

I feel like there's a joke to be made here somewhere.....

Big Shot Rob · 11-02-2006, 12:52 PM

Weird--this whole trash-talking between Horry and Stack.

I am old--probably the oldest person who writes on this message board. I loved Tom Landry--the man in his prime was such a genius and he never engaged in this of behavior.

I guess times have changed. To get the crowd pumped up, players have to talk abut hating their opponent.

As A Spurs fan, I think I know how Mav fans feel. For years, the Spurs would have great regular season records and then lose in the playoffs. It seemed like the Lakers always had our number, so the SA vs. Laker rivalry was really intense. We wanted a ring--bad.

I think the Mavs occupy this role. A bounce here, and the Mavs would have won four straight against the Spurs (if Stack made that shot at the end of game one, Mavs sweep the Spurs). A bounce there (Bowen's foul against Dirk in one of the games with ten or 11 seconds left; Manu's foul in game seven) and SA would have gone to the NBA Finals.

The fact is these two teams are about even. Each has a major superstar future hall of famer aned a great cast surrounding him.

I hate trash talk. Fact is, SA will be better this year--the Mavs made them better. And the Mavs are a great team--Mark put a team together designed to beat SA and to win a ring.

It is possible that a rival makes you a better competitor.

Bring on the season--may God spare both teams of injury.

PS--I want to thank members of this message board for putting up with the resident Spurs fan. I came here after you beat us last year in the playoffs and have stuck around because I really enjoy discussing basketball with the people here.

ballin_boi · 11-02-2006, 01:05 PM

Fuck Will Smith (Horry). Stack will give him t3h bu++secK$ and he'll like it!

rabbitproof · 11-02-2006, 04:17 PM

I respect the Spurs but I also hate their whiny faces.

(PS- I WANT THE PIE!! GIVE ME THE FRIGGIN PIE!! THE WHOLE PIE!! I EAT PIE!!)

AxdemxO · 11-02-2006, 04:48 PM

See IMO we dont want to be like the Spurs. We want to be better than them. Because of that this rivalry was created. I think both teams hate each other because they are battling for that #1 spot, but tht also makes them respect each other. Thats the way thing are in life. But my point is we shouldnt want to be "LIKE THE SPURS" we are going to be "BETTER THAN THE SPURS" and so the rivalry begins.

Obi Wan Ginobili · 11-03-2006, 10:10 PM

A lot of this rivalry crap is fueled by that POS owner - Cuban. Aside from the fist to the nuts incident last year, the play has been spirited but clean. Um, oh wait, there is the shoving Bowen to the floor thing this year too... oh, well, nix that.

Serioulsly, the teams make the rivalry and this one will be a great one. I LOVE the Spurs, LIKE the Mavs and FREAKING HATE mark cuban (lower case intended) he is a shame to the game, well pretty much to the entire human race. If you could just find another owner then i would love the Mavs again. I lived in Dallas during the Brad Davis, Rolando Blackman era and if not the Spurs, want the Mavs to take it all this year

dude1394 · 11-03-2006, 10:15 PM

Bull honkey this rivalry isn't caused by anything but the fans and the team, not cubes.

The spurs fans that came into the arena years ago were just as obnoxious as the laker fans before them. It appears that the more a team wins the more obnoxious their fans become.

Obi Wan Ginobili · 11-03-2006, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Bull honkey this rivalry isn't caused by anything but the fans and the team, not cubes.

The spurs fans that came into the arena years ago were just as obnoxious as the laker fans before them. It appears that the more a team wins the more obnoxious their fans become.

UM.... i believe i said "Seriously, the teams make the rivalry..."

Cuban tries to fuel it... he has said so himself MANY times... but in a negative (crap) way by insulting San Antonio - the city, its women and the mudwalk, er, i mean Riverwalk.

Lets rise above cuban and his disgusting ways and concentrate on the love of the game.