The Untouchables - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Chiwas · 07-02-2003, 08:07 PM

Dirk and Howard.

Amazing.

However, if Finley is traded, I think also Howard might be moved. In other words, Dallas shall not open a hole to close other hole.

This would carry even more alternatives for signing/trading.

mavsfanforever · 07-02-2003, 08:10 PM

I think only untouchable is Dirk. I am sure mavs would trade Howard for Bosh if opportunity presents.

Mandyahl · 07-02-2003, 08:13 PM

then theoretically even dirk isn't untouchable. i would trade dirk for duncan. it won't happen, but neither will bosh for howard.

Lonely PSU Mavs Fan · 07-02-2003, 08:14 PM

i agree that the only untouchable is Dirk. i would hate to see a lot of the other players go, but i would not label anyone except dirk "untouchable"

mavsfanforever · 07-02-2003, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Mandyahl
then theoretically even dirk isn't untouchable. i would trade dirk for duncan. it won't happen, but neither will bosh for howard.

I wouldn't trade Dirk for Duncan. Dirk is going to end up as the best 7 footer that ever played this game. He has closed the gap between him and duncan rapidly. He overtook him in PPG last season. Believe in Dirk.

Murphy3 · 07-02-2003, 08:21 PM

dirk is as close a thing as there is to an untouchable...

MFFL · 07-02-2003, 08:21 PM

There are no "untouchables" - Shaq AND Kobe for Dirk then goodbye Dirk.

Lvubun1 · 07-02-2003, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: MFFL
There are no "untouchables" - Shaq AND Kobe for Dirk then goodbye Dirk.

Exactly, of course the chances of that happening are slim and none but isn't anymore unrealistic then any of the other 5 team 13 player trades we see on this and other boards.

cookies_n_mavs · 07-02-2003, 08:37 PM

I believe in Dirk. I believe in Tim Duncan. I believe in Shaq and Kobe. But when I stop believing in Duncan, Shaq and Kobe, I will still believe in Dirk.

Nobody is untouchable, but he is as close as it gets.

Mandyahl · 07-02-2003, 08:42 PM

ok, i can go with that, cookies.

mavsfanforever · 07-02-2003, 08:42 PM

Or we can trade Dirk and B!tch about it afterwards just like Orlando Magic.

Nash13 · 07-02-2003, 11:16 PM

I want everybody to stop treating Dirk like he's God.

If you're going to talk about trading Nash and Finley, you may as well talk about trading Dirk, because Nash and Finley were just as important when it comes down to taking the mavs to the playoffs.

ocelot_ark · 07-02-2003, 11:18 PM

Wrong, Nash13.

Nash or Fin go down in the playoffs and we're still looking pretty good. Dirk goes down and we're out of the playoffs...

Mavs_Rule2003 · 07-02-2003, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Nash13
I want everybody to stop treating Dirk like he's God.

If you're going to talk about trading Nash and Finley, you may as well talk about trading Dirk, because Nash and Finley were just as important when it comes down to taking the mavs to the playoffs.

Only problem is that Dirk got a lot of upside ..and he is still only 24~

whereelse nash and fin are 30 and 29.

Nash13 · 07-02-2003, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: ocelot_ark
Wrong, Nash13.

Nash or Fin go down in the playoffs and we're still looking pretty good. Dirk goes down and we're out of the playoffs...

I totally beg to differ. I believe it was game 5 were we came back from a huge deficit without Dirk. And if it wasn't for that fourth quarter collapse in game 6(and yes, the mavs have collapsed with Dirk), we could have made it to the finals, without Dirk's help.

And MavsRule, you're right about Dirk being 25. But if we spend so much time worrying about our future, we can't keep up with our present.

DIRK BRASIL · 07-02-2003, 11:41 PM

I think only untouchable is Dirk. He is our team!!!!!!

one long blue sock · 07-02-2003, 11:46 PM

Well Mandy brougth up a good point that if we were offered Dunan for him, then he would be touchable.

And the team isn't all that well built around him. If we were to get a good defensive center, they would be forced to guard the hardess man instead of coming off the stray man because Dirk would get tired and banged up guarding team's best post players. Thats what seperates him from Duncan, Garnett, and Shaq, he can't be the help out defender.

mavsfanforever · 07-03-2003, 12:07 AM

If Dirk gets traded for Duncan, then we will be better off trading everyone in the mavs team. This team is built around him. It may not look that way but if you carefully observe the plays Nellie uses you will notice.

Also you might wanna fire Nellie after that. And forget the Chalupas (we will never score 100).

cookies_n_mavs · 07-03-2003, 12:10 AM

No more Chalupas? NO!!!!

I don't even wanna think of having Duncan as a Mav... he'd be a square peg.

Hitman · 07-03-2003, 05:06 AM

I wouldn't trade Dirk for any basketball player in the world, and I doubt Cuban would either

grbh · 07-03-2003, 07:02 AM

I wouldn't trade Dirk for Duncan. Dirk is going to end up as the best 7 footer that ever played this game.

Slow down a bit there. Dirk is terrific, but the best 7 footer ever. I can think of at least a handfull of 7 footers off of the top of my head that Dirk will never topple. For starters Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq.

Usually Lurkin · 07-03-2003, 07:14 AM

what in the world does 'untouchable' mean? Does it mean no trade under any imaginable scenario? If Minnesota swung deals to land them Shaq, Kobe, Kidd, and Duncan, then offered all of them plus KG to the mavs for Dirk and Rigadeau, wouldn't you do that? You'd have Shaq, Kobe, Kidd, Duncan, KG, Nash, Fin, and NVE on your team, and you would win. If you didn't, you'd pat yourself on the back for sentimental reasons, and then lose to the TWolves.

If not, then you've got to set some other criteria, such as:

not tradeable in any realistic scenario (then you might include Esch in 'untouchable')
or
the player we'd least like to lose (then you necessarily only have one 'untouchable')
or
probably impractical to include in a fantasy trade (then you should define 'probably' and 'impractical' on a situationXsituation basis)
or
something else.

If you don't, then the only thing your post is doing is increasing the little number by your name and burdening my retinas with unessesary radiation.

Ummmmm Ok · 07-03-2003, 08:10 AM

but this is what you would have to see to answer this question. Duncan won the NBA championship with a 20 year old point guard and a bunch of role players/scrubs.

Dirk didn't even make it too the finals with an allstar point guard, and an almost allstar in a shooting guard.

But if you really want to look at this from the other side, would San Antonio trade Duncan for Dirk? The answer is NO!!

So if you are asking me if I would trade Dirk for the Leagues MVP, I would do it in a heartbeat.

Murphy3 · 07-03-2003, 08:17 AM

what i'm tired of hearing about is how players like KG and shaq guard the other team's best player

that's a load of crap...dirk guards KG more than KG guards dirk... KG does less to stop dirk than dirk does to stop KG (neither do that much)..

look at the numbers..dirk abuses KG like a redheaded step daughter when they're matched up against each other.

dirk probably faces as many double teams when dallas and minny match up.

seelenjaeger · 07-03-2003, 08:46 AM

I´d love to see Shaq guarding Kidd though ...

MFFL · 07-03-2003, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: grbh
I wouldn't trade Dirk for Duncan. Dirk is going to end up as the best 7 footer that ever played this game.

Slow down a bit there. Dirk is terrific, but the best 7 footer ever. I can think of at least a handfull of 7 footers off of the top of my head that Dirk will never topple. For starters Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq.

I thought that was a little over the top as well. Good call grbh

Murphy3 · 07-03-2003, 09:16 AM

so over the top that even I skipped right past it... must be EXTREMELY over the top.

Dirk has hall of fame skills..definitely has HOF potential.

But, let's be realistic..he's not gonna be a top 2-3 player in the history of the NBA..will he be 4? nope

but, he has the potential to be one of the better players in the history of the game

kg_veteran · 07-03-2003, 09:23 AM

I think he has the potential to be one of the best forwards to ever play the game. But right now, he's not even the best forward currently playing. Pretty damn close, but still, he has some work to do to even make the Hall of Fame at this point.

Murphy3 · 07-03-2003, 09:42 AM

Remember, KG, this is the Basketball Hall of Fame..it's conceivable that steve nash could make it because of his contributions to basketball in Canada.

It's not MLB..they let just about anyone that contributed anything of significance along the way

Chiwas · 07-03-2003, 10:52 AM

After reading the last Mark's and Nelsons' comments I think that the only untouchable is Dirk.

Why?

Well, first I thought that Dallas was going after a 4.8 and a 1.5 mill guys and to fill the other spots using vet minimums. Also, that Howard was untochable cause he was just picked to play.

But now watching Mark going after Mourning, who won't accept 4.8, and maybe after Kidd who is the most expensive fantasie of the world, Dallas would need trade also Finley and Howard and whatever Mav if Mark is thinking seriously in signing those two players or other high caliber players.

But Kidd and Mourning together aren't worth -playing- as much as Dirk, at least for this team.

FilthyFinMavs · 07-03-2003, 11:11 AM

I'd trade Dirk for Duncan or Garnett before the other team would change there mind. Realistically there are no untouchables on this team. But with Dirk no other team is gonna trade there superstar for him just like the Mavs won't trade there superstar for anyone elses. You would be seeing like Jrich, Dunleavy, Troy Murphy and a pick or 2 to get Dirk. Similiar to how the Chicago deal was for FInley. You get a whole bunch of role players for a star becuase in this league you rarely see a superstar for superstar trade because you don't trade superstars. Garnett and Duncan are the only guys I would trade for with Dirk. Maybe Amare or Yao Ming in about 3 or 4 more years.

philb7777 · 07-03-2003, 12:04 PM

I would hate to see Cuban and Nellie mess with the chemistry of the team that much. We are not that far away from the promised land. I would hate to see us sell our souls and be in the same position next year. I would avoid sign and trade for free agents unless it involves none of our starting five or NVE.

nowitzki_prophecy · 07-03-2003, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Slow down a bit there. Dirk is terrific, but the best 7 footer ever. I can think of at least a handfull of 7 footers off of the top of my head that Dirk will never topple. For starters Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq.

i think Kareem is 6'10,and i do think Dirk can be better than Hakeem and with time match up to Shaq aswell.
Dirk is somewhat of a question mark,i believe he has the potential to be at the level Larry Bird has played,Better than shaq,better than Hakeem,dont know about Wilt though.
anyway,he could be one of the best Small forwards to ever play the game,but would he be?

aexchange · 07-03-2003, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: nowitzki_prophecy

Quote:

Slow down a bit there. Dirk is terrific, but the best 7 footer ever. I can think of at least a handfull of 7 footers off of the top of my head that Dirk will never topple. For starters Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq.

i think Kareem is 6'10,and i do think Dirk can be better than Hakeem and with time match up to Shaq aswell.
Dirk is somewhat of a question mark,i believe he has the potential to be at the level Larry Bird has played,Better than shaq,better than Hakeem,dont know about Wilt though.
anyway,he could be one of the best Small forwards to ever play the game,but would he be?

dirk will probably be never as good as hakeem in his prime. i love dirk but olajuwon was the man who once had a quadruple double. was one block or steal shy of another quadruple double. and once was 2 assists shy of a quintuple double. in his prime, hakeem was by far one of the top 5 players in the league. just a rare talent and blend of size, speed, and athleticism. don't let what olajuwon became towards the end of his career distort what he was in his prime.

kareem was a legit 7'2". he was not 6'10". greatest scorer of all time with incredible longevity.

these are multiple time champions, league MVPs. lets not make dirk to be something incredible that he hasnt quite shown yet. hes a wonderful player, but you cant even begin to compare him to other legendary big men yet.

Hitman · 07-03-2003, 12:54 PM

It is very premature to compare Dirk to the greats of yesteryear, however...if he improves in a couple of areas and the Mavs win a title or two in the next 10 years, then he will be considered among the top 25 players in history. I think top 10 is a longshot, but if you bump those titles up to 3 or more and Dirk continues to improve defense and passing, then you never know.