Postgame: The team formerly known as Mavs vs Pacers - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

SMC0007 · 01-13-2011, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Off of the small glimpses I see, it looks like he's still just got a ways to go before he can really be trusted.

Even for some minutes here and there? By no stretch am I suggesting that he be inserted into the starting lineup or close games but he has provided a spark several times and generated offense as a facilitator, drive and kick.

BGMaverick9 · 01-13-2011, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Even for some minutes here and there? By no stretch am I suggesting that he be inserted into the starting lineup or close games but he has provided a spark several times and generated offense as a facilitator, drive and kick.

I've seen it myself but there can be some reading between the lines based on what Carlisle said about the team leading up to tonight's game and then commenting on specific players (his post-game comments on Ajinca tonight) as to one reason Jones could be having a hard time getting minutes.

wilmtalk · 01-13-2011, 01:14 AM

I wouldn't get a Hari Kari mood about this situation. It's not as bad as it seems to some of you. Yes what looked very good now seems not so good. That does not mean that it makes sense to get off the path Dallas is on now.

This team was configuered to complement Kidds strengths and limit his libilitys. This type of team requires ball movement and team flow. Both J Howard and Caron initially did not fit into this concept. remember how frustrated most of use were with Butler early on. Caron became a valuable asset only when he began to play a role within the system rather than a one on one player. All we need to do is replace the role that he played not the player he was before the change. This is what some of you don't seem to understand. You find it hard to grasp that a players value is variable and depends on how well they fit into the team flow. We don't need to have a major scorer. In fact a major scorer would in fact disrupt the flow of the team and negate the strengh of the present roster.

Dirk is a very special player in that his lack of ego allows him to be a scorer and still play within the offensive flow of a team concept. When this team traded for J Kidd out of desperation they over paid. That affected their options for future moves. Because their gamble to win a champianship that year did not pan out they essentially traded away their future obtions. It took years to reconfigure this team to what it developed into before the rash of injurys. Notice how well they played. That was truly a team. To trade for a high profile scorer would in essence be starting over again. And unless it had an immediate enough impact to secure the champianship it would be again robbing the future for a long shot at the present. You never get something for nothing. You could argue the Lakers did. But the piece they got had more value to them than it did for Memphis. And most important they were not trading out of desperation.

A desperation trade at this time would be folly. Don't you think other teams know the situation and are waiting to soak the Mavs. You never trade out of desperation. Does anyone think that the other teams are stupid enough to make trades with the mavs so that they can get back on top? It is to their advantage to wait. They will only do so if the deal is totally in their favor which is what the Mavs don't want to do. Deal out of desperation and you get soaked. Making a major trade to acquire a piece that will not win the champianship imediately while giving up other pieces that are also essential is plain stupidity. We traded away too much in the Kidd deal that left us with too many other holes to fill with what we had left. It took us till now especially Chandlers acquisition to build the right team. Haven't we learned our lesson.

CadBane · 01-13-2011, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Do it.

"Meds ain't cheap in this economy!"

Didn't have to look to long.

fluid.forty.one · 01-13-2011, 01:20 AM

I want to do a case study on CadBane.

Most everyone here thinks you're a jerk. People celebrated when you got banned... yet you wanted to be here so bad, still, that you kept making alt accounts. I just can't wrap my mind around that logic. If there was a party going on and I knew everyone there hated me, I wouldn't keep trying to sneak in.

I mean, it can't be for the "great discussion" because you keep implying that everyone here is really stupid. If we're all idiots, I'm sure you can find a better place to discuss basketball.

chumdawg · 01-13-2011, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

"Meds ain't cheap in this economy!"

Didn't have to look to long.

No. not that one. That one was a genius line.

LonghornDub · 01-13-2011, 02:32 AM

Sad thing is, Cad could be one of the better posters on this board--a board that IMO needs more quality posters--if he would (permanently, not for a couple weeks) stop his pattern of being needlessly condescending.

CadBane · 01-13-2011, 02:35 AM

You all really ought to read the posts I'm making and the posts you're replying with. I know a mob mentality is cool and all, but really, it's fairly clear who's being the jerk(s) here.

ReDirkulous Tyme · 01-13-2011, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

I want to do a case study on CadBane.

Most everyone here thinks you're a jerk. People celebrated when you got banned... yet you wanted to be here so bad, still, that you kept making alt accounts. I just can't wrap my mind around that logic. If there was a party going on and I knew everyone there hated me, I wouldn't keep trying to sneak in.

I mean, it can't be for the "great discussion" because you keep implying that everyone here is really stupid. If we're all idiots, I'm sure you can find a better place to discuss basketball.

Apparently I have a case of the Cadbane's. I can seem needlessly condescending because 85% of the posts on here are absolutely ridiculous and make it seem as if that the poster knows absolutely nothing about the game, and has never set foot on a basketball court at any level.

HOWEVER, there are about 5-7 posters on here (yourself included) that actually provide extremely insightful, intelligent, well-worded opinions that I respect and agree with. These are the posters that I come to this forum to read. Unfortunately, in the process of reading your opinions, I can't help but see the absolute idiocy that is posted in between said opinions, that I feel compelled to respond if, for no other reason, than to help keep other not-so-informed members from thinking the absolute bullshit spewing from most poster's keyboards is actually true.

Ergo, I can definitely see where Cadbane is coming from. It's a pain in the ass to ignore hundred's of posters. This just means that the select few of you whose opinions I do value are obviously extremely knowledgeable, if people like me and Cadbane are willing to wade through the trash to ready them.

jthig32 · 01-13-2011, 09:18 AM

CadBane hasn't done anything in this particular thread to warrant the beating he's taking. Let's just drop it.

b_o_r · 01-13-2011, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

DJ has a long way to go, he was a nice surge in that Cleveland game but he's still a project player.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Off of the small glimpses I see, it looks like he's still just got a ways to go before he can really be trusted.

DJ should be reassigned back to the D-League because he is not gonna get better sitting on the bench.

Murphy3 · 01-13-2011, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

But I wasn't confrontational about it.

You make good points, but you act all superior when you do...

Can't it ever be, "I disagree" instead of "I disagree because you're an idiot"?

At least he makes good points... maybe you should try that from time to time.

Rick41 · 01-13-2011, 10:08 AM

It seems like this board is going to implode like Cowboys Stadium.

Budapest Maverick · 01-13-2011, 10:10 AM

I'm not really an optimistic fan, generally, altough i'm not doom and gloom either. Somewhere in the middle. Right now, i'm not really concerned. I still remember how this team fully healthy is 7-0 against the NBA's best teams this year. I saw something in this team, that made me believe this can be the best Mavs team in team history. That doesn't changed. We all knew we are absolutely s**t without Dirk, didn't we? There is a reason why this guy posted one of the most ridiculous +- numbers in the last few years. He's the MVP, without a shadow of a doubt. I'm not worried, once we get back Dirk and Roddy, we will start winning again, and this will be the most dangerous team we ever had. I think they must trade Caron's though...

Underdog · 01-13-2011, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

At least he makes good points... maybe you should try that from time to time.

Funny, because Cadbane himself actually pointed out a post of mine earlier in this thread that was right in line with what he was saying...

Maybe you (the guy who does nothing but bitch about the quality of this forum when he isn't posting in the Rangers thread) should make a good point every now and again - you might have been a decent poster on this site at one time, but these days you bring NOTHING.

Kettle, meet pot...

41mvp · 01-13-2011, 10:34 AM

we lost with Pacers it's...

Underdog · 01-13-2011, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

I'm not really an optimistic fan, generally, altough i'm not doom and gloom either. Somewhere in the middle. Right now, i'm not really concerned. I still remember how this team fully healthy is 7-0 against the NBA's best teams this year. I saw something in this team, that made me believe this can be the best Mavs team in team history. That doesn't changed. We all knew we are absolutely s**t without Dirk, didn't we? There is a reason why this guy posted one of the most ridiculous +- numbers in the last few years. He's the MVP, without a shadow of a doubt. I'm not worried, once we get back Dirk and Roddy, we will start winning again, and this will be the most dangerous team we ever had. I think they must trade Caron's though...

No kidding - I don't get the doom and gloom when the problem with this team is simple; no Dirk.

We'll start winning again once he gets back, but it is frustrating to see just how bad this team is without him... It doesn't exactly bode for the playoffs - are these guys going to disappear again when they're depended on to step up and help Dirk?

dude1394 · 01-13-2011, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

I concur. I'm not huge on Al. He'd bring nice depth to the 4, but he's too slow for the 3. Of course he could always see some minutes at the 4 with Dirk at the 5 (he did play center under Nellie at times, but then again, who didn't?) If a nice trade came along for Al, I'd do it. But obviously I'd prefer a guy like Iggy, Jax, Melo (not gonna happen), Crash.

The team was really balanced before caron went out. We had pgs (jjb was serviceable no matter what anyone says)..sgs (steve to start, jet to finish), 3's (caron,shawn), 4's (dirk, shawn), centers...

With caron out it's all mucked up. Shawn can't backup the 3 and 4 anymore and so we have a much less scoring 3 and no depth behind it.

Dirk is obviously huge and with him we go back to near 50 win team, but that is NOT going to get it done. Nor will roddy fix it imo. The mbts have to be looking at some 3s to put the team back in balance.

dude1394 · 01-13-2011, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I don't buy that for one second - the Mavs FO would have to be smoking crack if they aren't actively seeking a way to upgrade this team via Butler's expiring contract (a missing ingredient isn't part of the chemistry....)

The only reason I can see them waiting is if they have doubts that Roddy can make an impact this season, maybe they'd go after a SG instead of a SF... Otherwise, there's nothing to evaluate - we still need a backup PG and another forward regardless of how Dirk and Roddy feel...

I hope they aren't doing that. IMO going after a shooting guard is really chasing their tail. they have one whether they like it or not and his name is jet. He IS going to be on the floor at the end of games...so going after a shooting guard because roddy cannot cut it I just do not agree with it.

Roddy will be icing on the cake but it's way too late for him to be the cake. We are desperate (I know this is sounding redundant) for a physical 3 of some sort. It had thrown us so out of whack..

dude1394 · 01-13-2011, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b_o_r

DJ should be reassigned back to the D-League because he is not gonna get better sitting on the bench.

They need more bodies on the team right now...he's going to stick for a while..

Underdog · 01-13-2011, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

The team was really balanced before caron went out. We had pgs (jjb was serviceable no matter what anyone says)..sgs (steve to start, jet to finish), 3's (caron,shawn), 4's (dirk, shawn), centers...

With caron out it's all mucked up. Shawn can't backup the 3 and 4 anymore and so we have a much less scoring 3 and no depth behind it.

Dirk is obviously huge and with him we go back to near 50 win team, but that is NOT going to get it done. Nor will roddy fix it imo. The mbts have to be looking at some 3s to put the team back in balance.

We definitely need a starting 3 so Marion can slide back to the backup 3/4 where he was so effective earlier in the season, but I still think we need a new backup PG too. I wouldn't have a problem with Barea if we had a starting PG who logged 35+ MPG, but JJB just isn't good enough to play the extended minutes that someone backing up a 37-year-old PG in the NBA needs to play...

The hope was that Roddy could steal some of those minutes, but that idea seems like it's out the window this season.

It's not like we need to go after Harris or Nash, we just need somebody who garners a little more respect from opposing teams than Barea does. The guy is a decent backup PG for a mediocre ball club, but nobody is winning a ring with a Kidd/Barea rotation at the 1...

dude1394 · 01-13-2011, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

No kidding - I don't get the doom and gloom when the problem with this team is simple; no Dirk.

We'll start winning again once he gets back, but it is frustrating to see just how bad this team is without him... It doesn't exactly bode for the playoffs - are these guys going to disappear again when they're depended on to step up and help Dirk?

Very valid and concerning point...Except for Tyson..they just do not seem to be able to compete without the dirkster there.

DevinHarriswillstart · 01-13-2011, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

No kidding - I don't get the doom and gloom when the problem with this team is simple; no Dirk.

We'll start winning again once he gets back, but it is frustrating to see just how bad this team is without him... It doesn't exactly bode for the playoffs - are these guys going to disappear again when they're depended on to step up and help Dirk?

It's a good question because I'm starting to think Dirk and the Dirkettes isn't going to work. I think Cleveland with lebron is a good example of why it won't. You have these great regular season teams that seem invincible who just seem to collapse and rely too much on their star once the playoffs come around. The Mavs since the finals have essentially been the same way. I think that is why everyone is so high on roddy. He was the one guy last playoffs that said, "screw it, I'm not going to watch this ship sink and do nothing about it."

dude1394 · 01-13-2011, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

We definitely need a starting 3 so Marion can slide back to the backup 3/4 where he was so effective earlier in the season, but I still think we need a new backup PG too. I wouldn't have a problem with Barea if we had a starting PG who logged 35+ MPG, but JJB just isn't good enough to play the extended minutes that someone backing up a 37-year-old PG in the NBA needs to play...

The hope was that Roddy could steal some of those minutes, but that idea seems like it's out the window this season.

It's not like we need to go after Harris or Nash, we just need somebody who garners a little more respect from opposing teams than Barea does. The guy is a decent backup PG for a mediocre ball club, but nobody is winning a ring with a Kidd/Barea rotation at the 1...

I just disagree with you on this one. When rc went to jjb with dirk out there things had settled down tremendously and the bench was beginning to become a strength.. If his 3pt shooting goes up then I'm fine with him when he's not being asked to be the offense. If you are saying that jkiddo isn't good enough to win a ring I might agree with you there, but the backup point?? Nah...

LonghornDub · 01-13-2011, 11:13 AM

I'm not so sure they "don't compete" without Dirk. They've had some losses, but all of them have been competitive. They took the alleged best team in the NBA to the wire without Dirk (admittedly they had Caron then).

j0Shi · 01-13-2011, 11:14 AM

The 3pt shot is just that important to JJs game. If opponents start to respect his outside shot it will have be much easier to blow by.

Underdog · 01-13-2011, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

I just disagree with you on this one. When rc went to jjb with dirk out there things had settled down tremendously and the bench was beginning to become a strength.. If his 3pt shooting goes up then I'm fine with him when he's not being asked to be the offense. If you are saying that jkiddo isn't good enough to win a ring I might agree with you there, but the backup point?? Nah...

I don't think Kidd can put in enough minutes for us to win a ring and I think Barea gets DESTROYED if we play the Spurs or Lakers.

Hell, this really boils down to Kidd as much as Barea - our "future HOF" PG has been absolutely dreadful in Dirk's absence (.287 FG% in 8 games), mainly because he's being asked to do way too much... Well, what do you think he's going to be asked to do in the playoffs when defenses start swarming Dirk? That's right, too much... It would be nice to have someone better backing him up so he doesn't have to over-extend himself.

Barea is a zero-sum player when he's on the court - for every 2 points he gets you, he gives up 2... I wouldn't be so worried if he was a guy who could shoot himself out of a slump (like Terry), but he's been in a slump pretty much all season long. I don't get how an NBA player who stands under 6' can still have a job in this league while shooting 20% from beyond the arc. And it's not like he's collapsing defenses when he drives to the hoop like he did in the past either - opposing teams simply don't respect him when his shots aren't falling (and they aren't), they just stand in the paint, put their arms up and wait for Barea to pad their BPG stats...

It's not like JJB's woes began when Dirk got injured - he's been the weakest link on this team for a majority of the season... Sure, he's "only" the backup PG, but the backup PG on a team with a 37-year-old starting PG has to do a lot more than most backup PG's in this league...

I don't think replacing JJB the MOST pressing need we have, but it certainly seems like something we have to do if we want to make a deep playoff run...

ReDirkulous Tyme · 01-13-2011, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I don't think Kidd can put in enough minutes for us to win a ring and I think Barea gets DESTROYED if we play the Spurs or Lakers.

Hell, this really boils down to Kidd as much as Barea - our "future HOF" PG has been absolutely dreadful in Dirk's absence (.287 FG% in 8 games), mainly because he's being asked to do way too much... Well, what do you think he's going to be asked to do in the playoffs when defenses start swarming Dirk? That's right, too much... It would be nice to have someone better backing him up so he doesn't have to over-extend himself.

Barea is a zero-sum player when he's on the court - for every 2 points he gets you, he gives up 2... I wouldn't be so worried if he was a guy who could shoot himself out of a slump (like Terry), but he's been in a slump pretty much all season long. I don't get how an NBA player who stands under 6' can still have a job in this league while shooting 20% from beyond the arc. And it's not like he's collapsing defenses when he drives to the hoop like he did in the past either - opposing teams simply don't respect him when his shots aren't falling (and they aren't), they just stand in the paint, put their arms up and wait for Barea to pad their BPG stats...

It's not like JJB's woes began when Dirk got injured - he's been the weakest link on this team for a majority of the season... Sure, he's "only" the backup PG, but the backup PG on a team with a 37-year-old starting PG has to do a lot more than most backup PG's in this league...

I don't think replacing JJB the MOST pressing need we have, but it certainly seems like something we have to do if we want to make a deep playoff run...

I'm not going to delve too far into the JJB situation, as I think its a topic that gets ragged on far too often here.

You are completely correct throughout your post. However, the last couple games (didn't catch the Pacer's game last night, thankfully) JJB had been shooting at a better clip, but he may have regressed last night. The reason JJB looks so much better with Dirk on the court, is because Dirk is a guy that you can give the ball to with 4-5 sec left on the shot clock, and he can still get you a high percentage shot. That is, aside from his defense, one of the most frustrating things about watching Barea. What I'm talking about is his tendency to pound the rock and keep penetrating and over-penetrating for 20 sec of the shot clock, then pass the ball to one of his teammates and hope they're either open or can create their shot in 4 seconds or less. This drives me absolutely insane. I really think that Dirk and Caron out - two guys who can create their own shot - these problems really rose to the surface.

Ergo, we need another pg. I really think that DH could be had from Denver (assuming their deal goes through) for pennies on the dollar. If we can make this happen, we need to go after DH pretty hard. Harris could be (once again, ironically) our PG of the future, with Kidd retiring in a few years. In addition, I drool over the idea of DH and Roddy on the court at the same time. If we could get DH without giving up Roddy, I would do it.

In order to compete for a championship, we also need another 3. The reason we were playing so well is because of the balance we had on this team. Without Caron and Dirk, obviously, we do not have that balance. To restore said balance, while improving the team at the same time, we need to go out and pick up a 1 and 3. If we could get a guy like Crash/S-Jax/AI, I think we could contend. I would love to get Kevin Martin, but from what I've heard that is just not happening, unfortunately. But if we could make these moves, I would have no doubt about our ability to contend for a championship.

BGMaverick9 · 01-13-2011, 12:47 PM

There are other options at point guard. I'm not sure if they're sexy names but they're very viable and should be available.

That MMB piece I've been talking about with trade theories and etc is posting at one today.

ReDirkulous Tyme · 01-13-2011, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

There are other options at point guard. I'm not sure if they're sexy names but they're very viable and should be available.

That MMB piece I've been talking about with trade theories and etc is posting at one today.

Finally, I've been waitin on them shits for quite some time now. Trade scenarios that are actually viable, YAY!!!! I feel like a little school girl!!! Any big names as far as the 3 position goes? Tell me we're hoping to pick up more than just role players....please

BGMaverick9 · 01-13-2011, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReDirkulous Tyme

Finally, I've been waitin on them shits for quite some time now. Trade scenarios that are actually viable, YAY!!!! I feel like a little school girl!!! Any big names as far as the 3 position goes? Tell me we're hoping to pick up more than just role players....please

Viable, yes...orgasmically exciting...probably not. Well, at least not in part one.

Underdog · 01-13-2011, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReDirkulous Tyme

I'm not going to delve too far into the JJB situation, as I think its a topic that gets ragged on far too often here.

You are completely correct throughout your post. However, the last couple games (didn't catch the Pacer's game last night, thankfully) JJB had been shooting at a better clip, but he may have regressed last night. The reason JJB looks so much better with Dirk on the court, is because Dirk is a guy that you can give the ball to with 4-5 sec left on the shot clock, and he can still get you a high percentage shot. That is, aside from his defense, one of the most frustrating things about watching Barea. What I'm talking about is his tendency to pound the rock and keep penetrating and over-penetrating for 20 sec of the shot clock, then pass the ball to one of his teammates and hope they're either open or can create their shot in 4 seconds or less. This drives me absolutely insane. I really think that Dirk and Caron out - two guys who can create their own shot - these problems really rose to the surface.

Ergo, we need another pg. I really think that DH could be had from Denver (assuming their deal goes through) for pennies on the dollar. If we can make this happen, we need to go after DH pretty hard. Harris could be (once again, ironically) our PG of the future, with Kidd retiring in a few years. In addition, I drool over the idea of DH and Roddy on the court at the same time. If we could get DH without giving up Roddy, I would do it.

In order to compete for a championship, we also need another 3. The reason we were playing so well is because of the balance we had on this team. Without Caron and Dirk, obviously, we do not have that balance. To restore said balance, while improving the team at the same time, we need to go out and pick up a 1 and 3. If we could get a guy like Crash/S-Jax/AI, I think we could contend. I would love to get Kevin Martin, but from what I've heard that is just not happening, unfortunately. But if we could make these moves, I would have no doubt about our ability to contend for a championship.

Yeah, Barea and Terry both have a tendency to pound the shot clock out which is why neither of them make very good PG's - really, Barea is more of a micro-sized SG.

Yeah, I'd LOVE to get Devin back, but I don't think we even need to make a move that big. Sure, getting Harris, Nash or Billups would put us over the top, but someone like Sessions, Farmar or Hinrich would definitely be enough of an upgrade to make a push for a ring (not saying those guys are available, but that's the direction we should be thinking...)

Of course, a STARTING forward is our most pressing need right now. Iggy and Wallace (when healthy) are both excellent options - I'd even go for Al Harrington in a pinch.

Seems like we should be able to get both a starting forward and a backup PG between Butler's contract and our trade exceptions (not to mention our other expirings - Stevenson, Barea, Ajinca and Cardinal would make excellent filler, especially because they can each contribute as players for the right squad...)

ReDirkulous Tyme · 01-13-2011, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Yeah, Barea and Terry both have a tendency to pound the shot clock out which is why neither of them make very good PG's - really, Barea is more of a micro-sized SG.

Yeah, I'd LOVE to get Devin back, but I don't think we even need to make a move that big. Sure, getting Harris, Nash or Billups would put us over the top, but someone like Sessions, Farmar or Hinrich would definitely be enough of an upgrade to make a push for a ring (not saying those guys are available, but that's the direction we should be thinking...)

Of course, a STARTING forward is our most pressing need right now. Iggy and Wallace (when healthy) are both excellent options - I'd even go for Al Harrington in a pinch.

Seems like we should be able to get both a starting forward and a backup PG between Butler's contract and our trade exceptions (not to mention our other expirings - Stevenson, Barea, Ajinca and Cardinal would make excellent filler, especially because they can each contribute as players for the right squad...)

I agree wholeheartedly. I don't think that we NEED a guy like DH or Chauncey to contend, but if they could be had for pennies on the dollar, why not steal 'em while they're cheap? I also agree that Barea is really an undersized 2. In all reality, Roddy does every JJB does, only far, far better. If JJB were a D-League player, Roddy would be the all-star version. That is why I CAN'T WAIT to get Roddy back, because I think he will eat into both Jet's and Barea's minutes. Which means I get to spend less time yelling at my TV

Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of the pure JJB haters out there, because he is actually only slightly below average for a backup WHEN HE HAS ACTUAL PLAYMAKERS ON THE COURT WITH HIM. When he is the one that continually has to create shots for himself and others, we fail.

In all reality, we really should be able to pick up both a big SF, and either a great backup pg, or a guy like DH without giving up Roddy. If this can be done, our front office really needs to make it happen.

Budapest Maverick · 01-13-2011, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

No kidding - I don't get the doom and gloom when the problem with this team is simple; no Dirk.

We'll start winning again once he gets back, but it is frustrating to see just how bad this team is without him... It doesn't exactly bode for the playoffs - are these guys going to disappear again when they're depended on to step up and help Dirk?

I have no doubt in my mind, that Terry, Kidd, and Butler (or his replacement) wouldn't be enough for the 2008, 2009, or 2010 Mavs, however, the reason why i think they may be enough for this team, is our new found defensive power, and the (hopeful) emergence of Roddy as a scoring weapon. Granted, those things aren't sure to happen, but why not?

We don't have enough firepower for an average, or even above average defensive team, but i can see there is enough for a very good defensive team. With Dirk we were around the top 5 offensive teams (maybe 6th, or 7th?) scoring 98-100 points per game, on very good efficiency (48% i think?). All that without Roddy. Now if we can't play that defense in february and march, and/or Roddy still not playing, or can't have much impact for whatever reason, i'll have to change my opinion, because we absolutely must have to be that kind of defensive team in order to get a good chance for something big. If they can be that defensive team when april comes around, and Roddy can be our x factor like Dirk, and Kidd believes he can, i think our offense will be good enough for that team.

Kidd Karma · 01-13-2011, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I don't think Kidd can put in enough minutes for us to win a ring and I think Barea gets DESTROYED if we play the Spurs or Lakers.

Hell, this really boils down to Kidd as much as Barea - our "future HOF" PG has been absolutely dreadful in Dirk's absence (.287 FG% in 8 games), mainly because he's being asked to do way too much... Well, what do you think he's going to be asked to do in the playoffs when defenses start swarming Dirk? That's right, too much... It would be nice to have someone better backing him up so he doesn't have to over-extend himself.

Barea is a zero-sum player when he's on the court - for every 2 points he gets you, he gives up 2... I wouldn't be so worried if he was a guy who could shoot himself out of a slump (like Terry), but he's been in a slump pretty much all season long. I don't get how an NBA player who stands under 6' can still have a job in this league while shooting 20% from beyond the arc. And it's not like he's collapsing defenses when he drives to the hoop like he did in the past either - opposing teams simply don't respect him when his shots aren't falling (and they aren't), they just stand in the paint, put their arms up and wait for Barea to pad their BPG stats...

It's not like JJB's woes began when Dirk got injured - he's been the weakest link on this team for a majority of the season... Sure, he's "only" the backup PG, but the backup PG on a team with a 37-year-old starting PG has to do a lot more than most backup PG's in this league...

I don't think replacing JJB the MOST pressing need we have, but it certainly seems like something we have to do if we want to make a deep playoff run...

The problem with our PG's is that they're mostly facilitators. When you lose your top 2 player, that means your whole roster is shuffled upwards, now your number 3 guy is your number 1 option....in our case it's Jet. And then Marion, now the PG's have to expand their roles, which they don't have the skill sets to do. It's the troubling part when you lose your top two players. No depth in the NBA can overcome that kind of loss, NO ONE. Take the top two from any NBA team and I guarantee you they will not be any better than 2-6. Dirk is on his way back, we were brilliant when we had Caron and Dirk, now we know we won't have Caron. I think Cuban and Nelson is really doing the rest of the team a disservice when they're relying on within to right the ship. Now it does take 2 to tango and maybe teams are waiting up until the deadline to hear all offers, but honestly, I don't think we can wait, that extra body should be in ASAP to get the chemistry rolling and ready come April.

dude1394 · 01-13-2011, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

The problem with our PG's is that they're mostly facilitators. When you lose your top 2 player, that means your whole roster is shuffled upwards, now your number 3 guy is your number 1 option....in our case it's Jet. And then Marion, now the PG's have to expand their roles, which they don't have the skill sets to do. It's the troubling part when you lose your top two players. No depth in the NBA can overcome that kind of loss, NO ONE. Take the top two from any NBA team and I guarantee you they will not be any better than 2-6. Dirk is on his way back, we were brilliant when we had Caron and Dirk, now we know we won't have Caron. I think Cuban and Nelson is really doing the rest of the team a disservice when they're relying on within to right the ship. Now it does take 2 to tango and maybe teams are waiting up until the deadline to hear all offers, but honestly, I don't think we can wait, that extra body should be in ASAP to get the chemistry rolling and ready come April.

If the other teams won't play, you cannot make them. We can holler about doing this or that right now but that won't make it happen. I understand the talk about jjb but I'm still not convinced that the backup pg is that big of a deal. But sure if we can get devin for pennies on the dollar who wouldn't.

But getting devin/roddy will not solve our problem at the 3, which seems more concerning to me.

Kidd Karma · 01-13-2011, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

If the other teams won't play, you cannot make them. We can holler about doing this or that right now but that won't make it happen. I understand the talk about jjb but I'm still not convinced that the backup pg is that big of a deal. But sure if we can get devin for pennies on the dollar who wouldn't.

But getting devin/roddy will not solve our problem at the 3, which seems more concerning to me.

I think 3 is a huge problem, definitely agree, if their selling Devin, you snag him.

Underdog · 01-13-2011, 03:00 PM

Obviously our biggest priority is another forward to replace Butler, but I'd say our point guards should be our second biggest concern.

Like I said before, it's not just Barea - he'd probably be just fine if he was backing up Deron Williams, but Kidd is starting to look like he might break down and I don't think Barea is a talented enough player to give him the rest he needs to be a championship-caliber PG throughout the playoffs...