Tim Hardaway hates gays.

[WurzburgBorn]

Originally Posted by alexamenos

i think what he's saying is that guys that like girls routinely lie to girls.

...it ain't all that unreasonable to assume that guys that like guys would do the same thing, like....

"seriously dude, go ahead, shower...i may be a homosexual but that doesn't mean that i'm imagining you wearing a ball-gag and me acting out a scene from pulp fiction. yeah, lather up....nice and slow"

I see.
Am I alone then in thinking "who cares if some guy is thinking about that?"
Why should I care whether some guy thinks I'm hot as long as he doesn't stare and keeps his hands to himself?

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

It's getting to the point where it takes less courage to choose a gay lifestyle than it does to speak out against it.

You say that like it's a bad thing. That's exactly the way it should be.

Secondly, I will say this one time and one time only. Homosexuality is not a "lifestyle choice."

And don't you or anyone else dare tell me it is. Unless you're speaking from experience, what the fuck do you know about it? Did you choose to be heterosexual, Chum?

[alexamenos]

Originally Posted by WurzburgBorn

Am I alone then in thinking "who cares if some guy is thinking about that?"

i guess it depends upon whether the guy is good looking, and whether he has a good paying job.

cheers

[TheBlueVan]

Originally Posted by nikeball

morality - is based on how you were raised. a sum of your whole life. thus everyone's will be different. i believe homosexuality is a sin based on what it said in the bible. but that doesnt mean gays should be treated with less respect

Tim Hardaway has his right to his own opinions but he shouldve kept it to himself. He is a public figure and needs to hold himself to higher standards for our children's sake. What separates us from animals is TACT and INHIBITIONS. Without them, we are no different than savage animals.

i totally agree, the question was more of the general concept of right and wrong after you remove religion from the equation

[jthig32]

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[Thespiralgoeson]

No, when it comes to a statement like that, there is no room for disagreement. It's just plain wrong. It'd be like someone saying the world is flat. Do you "agree to disagree?" No, you correct them.

Secondly, beliefs like that certainly do hurt someone. If they didn't, we wouldn't be talking about them, would we?

Edit: If one believes homosexuality is a sin for religious reasons, fine. I'm not going to get into a theological discussion. But someone who's not "in the know" telling me what choices I have or haven't made in my life, that's where I draw the line.

[jthig32]

;

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

You say that like it's a bad thing. That's exactly the way it should be.

Secondly, I will say this one time and one time only. Homosexuality is not a "lifestyle choice."

And don't you or anyone else dare tell me it is. Unless you're speaking from experience, what the fuck do you know about it? Did you choose to be heterosexual, Chum?

Yes I choose to be heterosexual. I also choose to be monogamous.

And whether you believe that or not is irrelevant frankly imo. I do not want popular culture to be promoting a deviant lifestyle as if it's the latest fashion to take on or off.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by WurzburgBorn

I'm sorry, I just don't follow what you're saying at all. Are you saying that the right to privacy demands that we set up seperate restrooms for homosexuals?

I'm saying that if it's reasonable to expect women to be uncomfortable enough with straight men in the lockerroom that we separate them, how can we not expect men to be uncomfortable enough with a gay man that we separate them? Sure, there are differences in the analogy that don't have anything to do with the possibility of unwanted sexuality, but I bet that's the the biggest factor in why women don't want men in the lockerroom.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I wonder if Tim Hardaway has even met a gay person. I mean he singles them out as "the way they are".....in college, I was convinced this friend of mind was gay. He walked and talked it. Wore shirts 3 sizes too small. You know what, he was getting more girls than I was. He was I guess "metro" sexual. So maybe what Tim Hardaway doesn't like is flamboyant men. (men with "hoe" qualities as he would say) What makes someone homophobic in my opinion is the idea of being gay rather than the actuality. Just like in the NBA it seems perception can become reality.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

You say that like it's a bad thing. That's exactly the way it should be.

Secondly, I will say this one time and one time only. Homosexuality is not a "lifestyle choice."

And don't you or anyone else dare tell me it is. Unless you're speaking from experience, what the fuck do you know about it? Did you choose to be heterosexual, Chum?

I choose to be heterosexual, too. I also choose to be monogomous, too. And spiral, why do you think you are not the one proclaiming that the world is flat? Because someone told you how it is? Because it looks that way? The scientific evidence is nowhere near as clear as mavdog or anyone else might proclaim. And even if it is, are you going to argue that we have no choice but to follow our natural instincts, that in effect, have no free will?

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

I'm saying that if it's reasonable to expect women to be uncomfortable enough with straight men in the lockerroom that we separate them, how can we not expect men to be uncomfortable enough with a gay man that we separate them? Sure, there are differences in the analogy that don't have anything to do with the possibility of unwanted sexuality, but I bet that's the the biggest factor in why women don't want men in the lockerroom.

Very clear to me. Obviously ladies who do not want men waltzing into their dressing areas are sexist, racist misandrists.

[Dirkadirkastan]

Let's not get stupid now. Of course homosexuals choose their "lifestyles". The question is if they have control over who they're attracted to. I wouldn't think so, but what do I know.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I think it depends on the person if you choose the lifestyle or not. I like women. But what if I chose to be gay, even if I didn't like it. If you look at it like that, then yes, you can "choose" your lifestyle. However, since I like women, I wouldn't choose that now would I? If I liked men and women didn't do it for me, I'd probably choose to be gay. Why would I choose for my whole life to be a lie?

[Dirkadirkastan]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

You say that like it's a bad thing. That's exactly the way it should be.

THOUGHT POLICE

Believing this pretty much violates the principle of freedom of speech that this country was founded on. If someone believes homosexuality is wrong, then by God and my country, they have a right to say it.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Let's not get stupid now. Of course homosexuals choose their "lifestyles". The question is if they have control over who they're attracted to. I wouldn't think so, but what do I know.

I think so, even if there's a natural/genetic component. It gets easier and more rewarding, in my opinion, to be monogomous the longer you do it. It also gets easier not to control your anger, or any other natural impulse. These are all attitudes and impulses that change with our patterns of behavior.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Let's not get stupid now. Of course homosexuals choose their "lifestyles". The question is if they have control over who they're attracted to. I wouldn't think so, but what do I know.

The question is also whether society if forced to accept who they are "attracted" to. No it is not. See many sexual laws as proof.

[endtroducing MASKED]

you know what's funny? people still fucking have this attitude. how LOL is that shit

[Dirkadirkastan]

Originally Posted by endtroducing MASKED

you know what's funny? people still fucking have this attitude. how LOL is that shit

Yeah, pretty shitty how some people don't give in to every whim of Hollywood society, isn't it?

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by dude1394

The question is also whether society if forced to accept who they are "attracted" to. No it is not. See many sexual laws as proof.

Society doesn't force me to do anything. Society convinces us that gays are reflected on shows like Will and Grace. I promise you would be surprised who is gay and who isn't. A "lifestyle" choice, to me, has almost nothing to do whether you want to do it with men or women. There are masculine gay men and feminine lesbians. Society thinks its fun to watch American Idol. I don't and never will.

[endtroducing MASKED]

oh, you mean treating everyone equally? THAT SHIT IS FUCKED UP.

homophobia is just another version of racism, chief. not giving equal treatment to all is totally inexcusable.

[jthig32]

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[jthig32]

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[dude1394]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Society doesn't force me to do anything. Society convinces us that gays are reflected on shows like Will and Grace. I promise you would be surprised who is gay and who isn't. A "lifestyle" choice, to me, has almost nothing to do whether you want to do it with men or women. There are masculine gay men and feminine lesbians. Society thinks its fun to watch American Idol. I don't and never will.

I might have said "coerced" instead of forced. Society "coerces" us into all kinds of things, low-cut slacks, 8 year old girls with "juicy" on their stretch shorts, gay lifestyle acceptance in our movies, culture and print. When society begins to promote a gay lifestyle as non-deviant it has effects on people, just like beer-ads, music videos and television shows.

It's about the only thing that the islamists have a point about, our culture easily could be described as the great satan.

[Dirkadirkastan]

Originally Posted by endtroducing MASKED

oh, you mean treating everyone equally? THAT SHIT IS FUCKED UP.

homophobia is just another version of racism, chief. not giving equal treatment to all is totally inexcusable.

See, just like I said. THOUGHT POLICE.

Never mind the fact that just about everyone knows someone who is gay. (e.g. my uncle is gay) Never mind the fact that cases where violence occurs are rare.

Apparently I have a fear of homosexuals because Hollywood has slapped this "homophobe" label on anyone who doesn't agree with them.

The real hypocrisy of the situation is that you don't "give equal treatment to all". The only people you allow to think and speak are those that think and speak in like manner with yourself. The people that agree with you include homosexuals, so that makes you appear "tolerant", but you're not, since you only tolerate those that agree with you to begin with.

[mavsman]

I bet lil' Timmy wouldn't mind having Kobe on his team cause he's not rapistophobic. Or maybe he is and his homophobia stems from a deeper irrational fear of dropping his soap with the big english guy around.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

You say that like it's a bad thing. That's exactly the way it should be.

Secondly, I will say this one time and one time only. Homosexuality is not a "lifestyle choice."

And don't you or anyone else dare tell me it is. Unless you're speaking from experience, what the fuck do you know about it? Did you choose to be heterosexual, Chum?

I have no idea what percentage, if any, of those who identify themselves as homosexual do so because of genetic wiring. But I do know it's not the whole lot of them.

I am always amused by the counterargument that poses the question: "Why would anyone want to put up with all the abuse they get for being gay?" I have my suspicions about the answer, but the question is really not relevant. You do not have to look far AT ALL to find people outright *celebrating* their homosexuality.

Now, I did know one guy who told me how badly he wished he were straight. He said it would have made many areas of his life more comfortable. For example, his parents didn't know--and he was going to make damn sure they didn't find out. By all appearances he was just a regular joe, not a nellie queen. And he even tried to have relationships with women. Had sex with a few, he said, but in the end they just didn't turn him on like the guys did. But hey, sexuality is not a cut-and-dried thing. All sorts of people get off on all sorts of stuff.

In short, the opinion I have formed based on the evidence I've seen is that homosexuality is an outlet, often representing a sort of comfort zone, for many people who can't find acceptance (or don't have interest) in a heterosexual society. That's as concise as I can put it.

[untitled]

I agree with Spiral's point about being in-the-know. The first question I asked my roommate after he came out to me was: "So, when did you know and was it a choice?"

He's an army brat. His father was a career officer, now retired and working for Gateway. He went to high school in Sioux City, Iowa. One evening (while still at home) he was sitting down at dinner with his older brother (Citadel grad) and younger sister when the conversation turned to a boy at their school that had recently come out. When asked what they would do if one of their kids was gay, his parents replied: "We'd disown you."

Anyways, his response to my question about when he knew and whether it was a choice: "My preteen years, and no. Why would I choose this life for myself? I'm scared to death to tell my parents and don't think I ever will."

And you know what, I had to believe him. Why? Because he knows what it's like, and I don't have a clue - I like girl-next-door type brunettes.

Oh, and I don't recall choosing to prefer brunettes to blonds - it's just the way I'm wired.

[Murphy3]

Do homosexuals deserve to be hung...deserve to be looked at as sub human? No, not at all. Should they be shot for being gay? Nope. Is it ok to speak out against homosexuality as something that you believe to be morally wrong? Yes, of course it is. If you don't like it, deal with it or don't be gay. I'm sorry, but for those of you who are Christian, it is my understanding that it is your duty to speak out against homosexuality. I know that Christianity has become watered down over the years and transformed into something that's more convenient for the majority of people in our society, but I, in no way believe that Christianity was founded on just accepting that someone was in constant sin which is what homosexuality is.

Now, I'm not trying to come off here on the moral high ground because I've done more than my fair share of crappy things to people throughout my life. I've committed sins that are worse than those committed by homosexuals. But, so be it. Speaking out against homosexuality should occur in my opinion. Speaking out against murder, abuse, rape, lying, cheating, stealing.. the same should go for those as well.

[AxdemxO]

Personally I think Hardaway was a lil harsh..but he was expressing his feelings than why is every1 gettin on him. The man was honest, he is saying its not something he likes and that its not natural..soo let it go. Those are his views

[Dtownsfinest]

I'll give Hardaway credit for one thing. He was honest. And believe it or not people actually feel this way in america. Hate is a strong word so I won't go that for but I dislike the thought or sight of homosexuality as well. Atleast he was honest though. Charles Barkley meanwhile is all of a sudden spokeperson for GLAAD when back in the 90's numerous times I heard him scream out the term "f**" when playin against players.

[Nemesis]

Murphy, do you have these same feelings when it comes to strippers?

[Murphy3]

Yep

[jleefilled]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Do homosexuals deserve to be hung...deserve to be looked at as sub human? No, not at all. Should they be shot for being gay? Nope. Is it ok to speak out against homosexuality as something that you believe to be morally wrong? Yes, of course it is. If you don't like it, deal with it or don't be gay. I'm sorry, but for those of you who are Christian, it is my understanding that it is your duty to speak out against homosexuality. I know that Christianity has become watered down over the years and transformed into something that's more convenient for the majority of people in our society, but I, in no way believe that Christianity was founded on just accepting that someone was in constant sin which is what homosexuality is.

Now, I'm not trying to come off here on the moral high ground because I've done more than my fair share of crappy things to people throughout my life. I've committed sins that are worse than those committed by homosexuals. But, so be it. Speaking out against homosexuality should occur in my opinion. Speaking out against murder, abuse, rape, lying, cheating, stealing.. the same should go for those as well.

I think you're right in the sense that if a Chrisitian is asked whether he thought it was morally right or wrong to be homosexual, he should respond that it's wrong. I don't know where Hardaway is coming from with his comments -- actually, I only read the headline at ESPN -- but if it has a Chrisitan basis, shouldn't he rather say that he hates the sins, not the sinner?

[mqywaaah]

I think it would've been better if he said that. Maybe he had a very traumatic experience with a gay dude. And all those things he just said had been bottled up for the past 10 years or so. Maybe a molested child in his early years?

[Usually Lurkin]

Dirkadirkastan and Murphy have a very good point. Just because you don't agree with someone's actions doesn't mean you hate the whole group of people who chose to participate in those actions. Hardaway hates gays. He said so. Hardaway is homophobic. He said so. I don't think anyone here is defending that attitude. To me, that's the same as racism. It smacks of unforgiving hatred, and it's wrong. But there is a level of disagreement that doesn't include hatred.

But it doesn't make you homophobic and hate-filled to disagree that something is or is not sinful. I think gambling is sinful. That doesn't mean I hate all gamblers.

It is a dirty trick played by the victim crowd (and maybe a couple posters in this thread) to purposefully conflate disagreement with hatred.

[mcsluggo]

Originally Posted by mary

This board certainly has its share of idiots. But for the most part, people around here are pretty respectful of each other and each others' opinions, even when they do not agree. I feel pretty confident in saying that you would be welcomed as long as you brought something to the table of discussion.

If you happen to see someone being an ignorant asshole, its best just to ignore them and move on. Unless of course, you feel like jabbing with them, then put your gloves on. If you don't, then don't. In that respect, writing on a internet message board is really not that much different for "real" life.

Personally, if you have something to say, I welcome your opinion and your presence on this forum. Lord knows we could use some fresh thoughts/faces around here.

Unless of course you happen to be a fan of some OTHER basketball team - then you can take a flying leap off of a tall cliff.

I myself happen to live under the auspices of a deviant lifestyle. To some extent it is my choice. It has been based on my lifestile, and on the previous directions I've allowed my life to wander. I suppose that at any point I could seek help and wipe this antisocial behavior out. But frankly, I don't want to. It may make me a living freak in the eyes of most who behold me, by I am in fact a fan of the Sacramento Kings. Even with Kenny farkin Thomas as a starting "power" forward, and the tough as nails, 6'7" Sharif Abdur Rahim as a starting center. As that team strives to raise its head far enough to be able to even catch a glimpse of mediocrity from below, I have to ask who in their right mind would knowingly CHOOSE this lifestyle?

Oh yeah, the question of gays? why should you care whether somone else is gay, whether or not they chose to be such, whether or not they are just "gay in spirit" or are actually acting out on it? Unless they make a move on YOU, who cares? (and even in that case, as long as they are willing to knock it off when asked to do so, just take it as a compliment... the equivelent of your gross old great aunt <the one with about 20 lbs of extra skin flaps in her face> grabbing your cheeks and saying how cute you are. She may not give you a stiffy, but are you really gonna hate her over it?)

[mcsluggo]

Originally Posted by WurzburgBorn

In my experience, very few people who don't think homosexuality is wrong think that morality is for the birds.

Jeez man, how many negatives can you cram in to one sentence?

few (makes the sentese a negative) don't (two negatives make it a positive) wrong (I think this, as a third negative makes the sentence postive) ... so does "for the birds" make the whole sentence negative now?

[mcsluggo]

Originally Posted by WurzburgBorn

I'm sorry, I just don't follow what you're saying at all. Are you saying that the right to privacy demands that we set up seperate restrooms for homosexuals?

Personally I'd much rather seperate locker rooms for ugly people. And even more importantly for those filthy over-fibered sickos that can't enter a bathroom without ripping the walpaper off with their erupting colons. Oh yeah, and old people too... they're really gross.

[mary]

Originally Posted by mcsluggo

I myself happen to live under the auspices of a deviant lifestyle. To some extent it is my choice. It has been based on my lifestile, and on the previous directions I've allowed my life to wander. I suppose that at any point I could seek help and wipe this antisocial behavior out. But frankly, I don't want to. It may make me a living freak in the eyes of most who behold me, by I am in fact a fan of the Sacramento Kings. Even with Kenny farkin Thomas as a starting "power" forward, and the tough as nails, 6'7" Sharif Abdur Rahim as a starting center. As that team strives to raise its head far enough to be able to even catch a glimpse of mediocrity from below, I have to ask who in their right mind would knowingly CHOOSE this lifestyle?

Weirdo.