Championship and Playoff series failures

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Well, let's be real here. Besides bringing Nellie back, who could they have hired? Show me your list of available coaches with winning playoff experience who could help them mentally.

Avery didn't just melt down. Avery melted and then evaporated in record time. He disappeared like David Blayne.

Trust me, that particular feat is not going to be matched any time soon. Any parallels you would draw would have no basis whatsoever.

I would say Larry Brown would be a good fit mentally for the Mavs. Sad, but that is about as far as I could go with the available coaches at the time. I know the Mavs had a short list to go by, but I am just pointing out that Carlisle and the Mavs past seems alot alike to me. I would not really call Carlisle playoff career a total failure, but I just see some similar failures after having early success.

Rick: Given a team w/ the Pacers that was already ready to win a title
Avery: Given a team w/ the Mavs that was already ready to win a title

Rick: NBA coach of the year 2002 (Very early in his career)
Avery: NBA coach of the year 2006? (Very early in his career)

Rick: Next year after winning COY, had the NBA best regular season record
Avery: Next year after winning COY, had the NBA best regular season record

Rick: His team with the best record was picked to win the NBA title, lost in EC Finals
Avery: His team with the best record was picked to win the NBA title, lost in 1st round
(Not saying the same failures, but similar in nature)

Rick: Set franchise record for regular season wins
Avery: Set franchise record for regular season wins

Rick: After playoff loss w/ team w/ best record, his teams have not done too well.
Avery: After playoff loss w/ team w/ best record, his teams have not done too well.

Rick: Pretty decent regular season record, and losing playoff record was out of a job.
Avery: Pretty decent regular season record, and losing playoff record was out of a job.

Rick: Young coach with alot of potential
Avery: Young coach with alof of potential

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Rick: Given a team w/ the Pacers that was already ready to win a title
Avery: Given a team w/ the Mavs that was already ready to win a title

The Pacers were hardly a team "ready to win a title". They had won 41, 42 and 48 games the previous three seasons. Rick pushed them to 61 wins and the top seed. Also, the notion that they were the favorites to win the title is incorrect. The Lakers were still the heavy favorites to win the title, and the Pistons were largely considered the favorites in the East because of what they did after the Rasheed Wallace trade.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by jthig32

The Pacers were hardly a team "ready to win a title". They had won 41, 42 and 48 games the previous three seasons. Rick pushed them to 61 wins and the top seed. Also, the notion that they were the favorites to win the title is incorrect. The Lakers were still the heavy favorites to win the title, and the Pistons were largely considered the favorites in the East because of what they did after the Rasheed Wallace trade.

I am talking about that highly regarded Pacers team he inherited from Isiah Thomas, when Carlisle buddy Larry Bird got hired for GM. All the pieces were there to win a title when he got there. Same thing happened to Avery.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

I am talking about that highly regarded Pacers team he inherited from Isiah Thomas, when Carlisle buddy Larry Bird got hired for GM. All the pieces were there to win a title when he got there. Same thing happened to Avery.

We're talking about the same team, only they were not "highly regarded". They were mediocre, and Carlisle transformed them.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by jthig32

We're talking about the same team, only they were not "highly regarded". They were mediocre, and Carlisle transformed them.

I would say they were underachieving in the regular season, but Carilise did not transform them. Those players he got were already veterans who did not get better when he got there. He was put in a great position to succeed early in his career. Isiah had a very good team and they made noise in the regular season and playoffs. The players were all groomed from Bird to Isiah, and then Carlisle got them.

Once again it reminds me of Avery. Nellie groomed this current team and Avery benefited greatly from it. Once the Nellie benefit was gone, then we got the real Avery. Same MAYBE could be said about Carlisle. I have heard many sources call Carlisle the white Avery.