[Poll] Who's the Mavs 2nd best player and why?

[V2M]

After Dirk, who has the most impact on the team in terms of his talent, the position he plays, experience, etc. In other words who's the guy whom we could least afford to lose this year.

[alby]

I know people will say Josh Howard, but my vote goes to Dampier. If Howard ever got injured, we have a more than capable player in Keith Van Horn as well as others who can fill in that small forward position and do a decent job. Defensely, yes he will be missed because of his length and hustle but now we have stronger defensive team on the perimeter due to Christie's acquisition so Howard's loss would not be as crucial as it would be a year ago. Thus, I say Dampier because he is in reality, our only legitimate center.

[dirt_dobber]

I voted Howard.

He brings a lot athleticly and has above avg. defense.
My hope for him this season is improved scoring, and most of all getting
rid of the attitude or temper or whatever it was that we saw of him
increasingly toward the end of the year.

.

[DubOverdose]

I voted Terry. He's very efficient at what he does. He knows when to shoot and when to pass. He's energetic all the time and plays with tons of heart. The only thing he lacks is a true PG passing skills, but he could very well prove me wrong this season.

[Nash13]

I wanted to say Howard at first, but then Alby had me sold on the fact he can be replaced.

But as far as the person we can least afford to lose, i agree with Dub that it's Terry. If he went down, Dallas' efficieny on offense drops a ton. At this point, Harris isn't a reliable option.

[birdsanctuary]

That's easy Dirk Nowitzki is the Mavs 2nd best player. I say this because if you anlyze things from a championship viewpoint, Josh Howard is the Mavs best player. At times Howard's defense is all league caliber, and you need to have a 1st team all defensive player to advance to the finals. Howard's rebounding numbers are equally inconsistent, but nevertheless critical. I used to believe we needed to trade for Artest to win a championship, but Madape convinced me that Howard IS the next Ron Artest. The Mavs ability to advance to the finals is inexplicity intertwined with Howard's development. When Howard comes into his own, the Mavs will win the West. This may happen this year, or next...but it's soon. Dirk Nowitzki's already come into his own, and the Mav's still haven't won the West... That makes him the Mavs second best player.

[dude1394]

Josh....But there are cases to be made for damp, jason and even stack. However of the starters josh imo opinion can be the most impactful person on the team with hustle, rebounding and scoring. If he's offensive minded he's easily a 20pt guy...

The games last year when he was out I thought the team played quite poorly. I think it was only three games but they lost to the clippers and philedelphia. Philedelphia at home without AI.

I think that if josh can stay offensively minded and try to get to the hoop more he's going to have a huge breakout year this year.

[V2M]

I voted Howard although Damp and Terry play more crucial positions and have weaker backups. As mentioned here already, he's certainly elevated his play last year, especially during the playoffs to a point wherein he's quite a reliable scorer and arguably our best defender. His rebounding from the SF position also helps us quite a bit.

Hope he continues with his development and gets an all-star berth this year.

[Voss]

Is this about the "second-best player" or the "second-most-valuable player"? Whether we can or cannot replace a player, says more about our bench, than about the player's quality. I go with Howard.

[snoop]

J-Ho the next Scotty. Pipju

[FilthyFinMavs]

Maybe a tie between Josh and JET but i'd go with Josh because he offers everything other than passing. At times I don't see this great defender that I now Jet can become with his speed. Its hard to compare the two because they are both different players at different positions but Josh may be our most well rounded player on the team.

[sike]

JT...for now...but soon Josh will have overtaken him.

[79ta]

Originally posted by: alby
I know people will say Josh Howard, but my vote goes to Dampier. If Howard ever got injured, we have a more than capable player who can fill in that small forward position and do a decent job.

i agree with you, but the question was who is 2nd best, i vote howard.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally posted by: birdsanctuary
That's easy Dirk Nowitzki is the Mavs 2nd best player. I say this because if you anlyze things from a championship viewpoint, Josh Howard is the Mavs best player. At times Howard's defense is all league caliber, and you need to have a 1st team all defensive player to advance to the finals. Howard's rebounding numbers are equally inconsistent, but nevertheless critical. I used to believe we needed to trade for Artest to win a championship, but Madape convinced me that Howard IS the next Ron Artest. The Mavs ability to advance to the finals is inexplicity intertwined with Howard's development. When Howard comes into his own, the Mavs will win the West. This may happen this year, or next...but it's soon.

Bird, Howard is already 25 and he is nowhere near Ron Artest's level and probably never will be. Nor is he anywhere near the level Dirk was at 25. Dirk was already a two-time all-star when he was 25. Howard hasn't done that once. My vote went to Josh, but make no mistake about it, he is no Dirk. Dirk is the franchise, Howard is just a nice player, not a star, let alone a superstar.

Dirk Nowitzki's already come into his own, and the Mav's still haven't won the West... That makes him the Mavs second best player.

Dirk just turned 27, and is still improving. He's got at least 6 good years left in him, probably more. I agree that the Mavs winning the West may depend on Howard coming into his own, but that sure as hell does not make him the Mavs best player.

[alby]

it is funny to me how a 23.7 ppg, 10.1 rpg, and 3.3 apg playoff season for dirk has put him in consideration of not even being the best player on the team.

[poohrichardson]

Not to mention a third-place finish (above Tim Duncan) in the MVP voting...

I'm going with Dampier, although Josh is on his way.

[dalmations202]

IMO --2nd best -considering Dirk is #1 in most all categories.

offensive talent - probably Stack -- has ability to score that no one else on team but Dirk has.
shooting - JET -- man that is a sweet stroke
athleticism/talent -- Josh Howard -- Dallas goes no where without him
experience -- Doug Christie -- he has at least been in the 7 game wars

As far as player that can't be replaced though. The one with the biggest drop-off from starter to 2nd. The guy that if he gets hurt will harm the team the most. --- Erik Dampier ---- the drop from him to Diop/DJ/Pavel is dramatic. That drop is farther than Dirk/KVH, JET/DH, and the swingmen.

Although I do not consider Dampier anywhere near an upper level Center, he is still way ahead of his backups.

So I guess, if you are saying the guy that they can least afford to lose -- Erik Dampier-- at least until one of the backups actually shows something. If you are saying 2nd best, are you talking offense, defense, scoring, shooting, blocking shots, man-man, or what criteria are you calling 2nd best?

[Murphy3]

A very odd thread to say the least.

1. What's the question? Is it "Who's the Mavs 2nd best player and why?" or is it "Who can the Mavs least afford to lose behind Dirk". The title of the thread asks one question but the first post in the thread asks something completely different.

2. Nash13....get a clue. Howard hasn't even stepped up to All-Star level let alone anywhere near league first team all NBA and 3rd in the MVP voting.

[bo319]

Josh Howard....based on the poll question

[sully41]

JET

[V2M]

I'm sorry for the confusion. I've been through the same dilemma as I was reading several posts over the last few weeks claiming unquestionably Stackhouse as the 2nd best player on this team. For certain situations yes, but overall I felt no.

I thought Josh is our 2nd best player overall but figured I'll just put it to a vote and see what everyone else thinks.

I think the best answer came from dalmations202 and thanks to everyone else for playing. Clearly shows Josh, Terry, Damp and Stack are all equally important to the success of this team (after Dirk, of course).

[alby]

i said the same thing, how come i dont get any props =P

[grndmstr_c]

I voted Josh. I'm not sure who was 2nd best last year, but I think he will be this year, in large part because I'm expecting him to be the one who really steps up his agressiveness on offense to make up for Mike no longer being here. More shots for Terry, I hope, but the aggressiveness factor that really makes defenses account for you will come from Josh.

And I'd just like to point out that KVH should really be mentioned by name on this list. I'd be seriously tempted to vote for him over any of the choices other than Josh.

[chumdawg]

I voted Josh as well. I'm expecting to have a sort of offensive breakout this year. (On the flip side, I think he might be a bit overhyped defensively.)

GMC, it's been interesting to hear you speak highly of HVH, and particularly the Dirk/KVH pairing, this summer. Do you think we will see much of Damp/Dirk/KVH on the front line? I'm still wondering about those comments Avery made at the beginning of the summer about playing Dirk at the three.

[Evilmav2]

I'd say that Stack is currently our second best player, but if Howard's jumper continues to improve, young #5 can certainly capture that distinction this season...

[V2M]

Christie/Josh/KVH/Dirk/Damp (Dirk & KVH could be reversed as needed!) would be a nice, disruptively defensive and rebounding lineup for a few minutes in the 2nd half. Christie could bring the ball up while Terry's resting. Outside shooting would be provided by KVH and Christie while Damp and Josh clean up the offensive glass and of course, Dirk doing his thing inside & out.

And gmc, I considered KVH but left him out as I couldn't see how he'd get any more than 20-22 min/game. I kept the list to just the starters (Christie is supposed to start as per AJ) and the 6th man.

[Drbio]

My gut was to say Howard, but upon further review I go with JET. Jet probably has the most to gain with the loss of Finley. He will eat up the majority of his shots and will probably be expected to take them by Avery. As such, if he performs up to standard, he probably becomes the #2 guy that determines whether we rise or fall.

[EricaLubarsky]

Dirk
Terry
Howard
Christie
Stack
Damp

in that order.

[LRB]

I think Josh will be the 2nd best player this year, but Terry, Damp, KVH, or Stack all have decent shots at it if they live up close to their potential.

BTW how anyone could pick Dirk to not be the best player on the Mavs is beyond my comprehension.

[grndmstr_c]

CD, I remember those comments of Avery's, too. If that lineup can keep from getting shredded by opposing SF's I see no reason not to give it some burn. It wasn't used nearly as much as I thought it would be last year, but you'd have to figure it to be good on the boards, and provide all kinds of inside/outside options on offense.

V2M, I get what you're saying about the minutes with KVH. I just think that's a reflection of his value relative to the guy who finished third in MVP voting last year rather than relative to other potential 2nd bests on the team. He's a career 17 and 7 starting forward. Of the non-Dirk's only Stack can claim to even equal that kind of productivity, and Keith is more efficient as a scorer, and for my money is a more effective defender as well.

[Ninkobei]

as far as Talent goes it has to be either Howard or Terry. Yes I believe Dampier is a big impact player, but come on he's not exactly pure talent. Terry seems to have more finesse about him while Howard has the length and athleticism.

[Evilmav2]

It is discouraging to see all of the haters sleeping on Mr. Stack in this thread. I have no doubt that we're going to win anywhere from 6-10 more games than we should have next year, solely because of the clutch, free throw-producing heroics of the indomitable StackAttack...

[madape]

The argument for years was "Who's the best Maverick, Nash, Dirk or Finley".

Today, there is no argument... which in my mind tells me that the team has taken a big step backwards in terms of talent.

[rabbitproof]

Originally posted by: madape
The argument for years was "Who's the best Maverick, Nash, Dirk or Finley".

Today, there is no argument... which in my mind tells me that the team has taken a big step backwards in terms of talent.

Who's the best player? Nash, Dirk or Finley?

The answer there is why there is no question as to who is the best Maverick, not because who's here and who's not.

[Five-ofan]

Madape there hasnt been an argument about who the best was for 4 years. It has been Dirk and will continue to be so. Btw Nash13 Dirk is better than artest so therefore even if howard is the next artest he isnt better than dirk. I dont see howard as an artest at all but a shorter very poor mans KG. No he will never be as good as Kg but more that type than artest. I voted Damp but that was in the importance. I take howard as the second best player with terry right there. Btw if damp isnt an elite center who is. I would classify top 10 as elite. Other than shaq and ming there is no one clearly better than damp. I know their are alot of magloire lovers on this board but damp is every bit as good as magloire. Big Z. Ok that makes 3. Brad Miller. Maybe they have different strengths. THey each do well what the other does poorly, just depends on what you want. I might have forgotten someone but dirk and damp are the only two top 10 players at their position on the mavs. Maybe howard depending on who u classify as a 3. Terry dont know cant really think of points right now but nash, kidd, baron, billups, ai, hinrich, arenas are all better off the top of my head.

[rabbitproof]

To the topic -

Most important has to be Damp. If he goes, Dirk is playing center or Diop is taking 30+ minutes a game. He has to anchor the D, set the hard picks, be enforcer, etc. When he's hurt or in foul trouble, the Mavs are treading water - not looking to blowout games or overtake teams in the standings. So, he has to be the second most important.

Talent, Terry/Stack. Ignoring where they are in their careers, they would be more likely All-Star candidates then Howard today assuming equal minutes, etc. No slight to Josh.

Potential, Howard. Looking forward to his game and how it evolves the most - he can be a perfect sidekick to Dirk.

[LRB]

Who's the best player? Nash, Dirk or Finley?

The answer there is why there is no question as to who is the best Maverick, not because who's here and who's not.

Not necessarily. Of Course Fin's pretty much dropped from the argument of who's the best among Dirk, Nash, and Fin. And unless Fin has a remarkable comeback year he won't be included in the argument again. But Nash is a whole different subject. Both Nash and Dirk were 1st team all-NBA. Nash was MVP and Dirk was runner-up. It's awful easy for someone who's not a Mav homer to argue that Nash is better than Dirk based on last year. Personally I think that Dirk is better player, but I'd have to say that Nash had the better season last year. If there was any doubt, Nash's playoff performance cinched it for me when compared to Dirks. I'll still keep Dirk over Nash.

But I think that Madape has a legit point here. Used to there was some legitimate basis for arguing who was the Mavs best player. Now there is none. And since we got nothing for Fin and especially Nash, looks like we've suffered a talent loss unless someone not named Dirk steps up really huge this coming season. And by really huge, I'd say at least all-star appearance and 2nd team all-NBA. Frankly I just don't see anyone on the Mavs doing that this coming season. But hey we can all hope that Nash's game will fall off and that Fin will retire. It has to happen sometime, but I wouldn't bet on it happening next season.

[dalmations202]

Btw if damp isnt an elite center who is. I would classify top 10 as elite.

Elite = I would say to be elite, you need to meet one of these criteria.
1) All - Defensive Team
2) All -Star multiple times
3) Avg 20 pts a game over a season
4) Be considered by fans the cog that won a championship
5) lead the league in a major category

If you don't meet at least one of these, I'd have a hard time calling you elite. Even if you meet one of these, you might not be elite.

Edited for clarity.
IMO, Damp might be top 10 true center, and still not be an elite center.

But a list of players that play the center position at times that might be considered elite before Damp (Arguably).
Shaq, Magloire, Yao, Miller, Big Ben, Big Z -- with TD, Amare, Rasheed, Dirk, KG, Gasol, DHoward, Okafor, Dalembert, Wright, Chandler, Curry and Brand all arguably better or equal, and play the center position at least some of the time.

[The Miles]

Josh Howard.

Josh & Dirk will go down as the best duo in team history or at least top 3 (Ro/Mark, Nash/Dirk).

Josh is severly underated.

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: madape
The argument for years was "Who's the best Maverick, Nash, Dirk or Finley".

Today, there is no argument... which in my mind tells me that the team has taken a big step backwards in terms of talent.

There was no argument two years ago.