10-8: Mavs beat the Suns (I love typing that) - Page 4 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

dmack24 · 12-05-2008, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monty55555

I'm very pleasantly surprised with Shawne Williams' defense and rebounding. My perception of him (when he was traded here) was that he was more of an offensive type of guy. Its great to see that even if his shot isn't falling, he has other ways of contributing to this team. He has been defending/rebounding well and he has been playing very well as of late. Hope it continues.

Shawne Williams will be our version of Matt Barnes if we use him correctly. He is scrappy; but so is George.

horse900703 · 12-05-2008, 10:37 AM

Good game, love it

alexamenos · 12-05-2008, 10:37 AM

I think the mavs should trade Howard, two first round draft picks, 8 gillion dollars and Brandon Bass to the Suns for Steve Nash. Then they could roll out a lineup of Nash at the point, barea at the two, terry at small forward, kidd at power forward and dirk at center.

dirk was sick last night. the puerto rican retard is fun to watch...kind of like watching midgets run track or something, it's cute and funny.

phoenix looked awful. it was like four on five out there most of the night. you think they're not second guessing that whole shaq marion thing and wishing mike dan tony was back in town right now?

anyway...pretty impressive effort out there last night....now if the mavs could just get a retread point guard for howard everything would be dandy.

sike · 12-05-2008, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

The better question would be how the team plays with him versus how the team plays without him....I think we all remember how Dirk flourished once Nash's shadow was removed. He flourished all the way to the MVP. The Mavericks of the last five years are all the proof positive you need of addition by subtraction...

This little gym seemed to slip past everyone but me. Chum just admitted that Nash's departure was good for Dirk and the Mavs. Let this never be forgotten!

Now onto this very interesting discussion (that has gotten terribly bogged down by the "where he'd currently go in a redraft" talk).

#1 My biggest concern is that when Josh comes back Jason Terry eventually slips back into the "set shot only" mode we've been seeing from him the past couple years. JT has to have freedom to attack with certain levels of abandon and volume. I just don't think there is "room" for the type of perimeter aggression JT is currently showing when Josh is back gobbling up perimeter shots. I agree with Dub who said if we have to choose either current Jason Terry or most recent Josh Howard, I easily take Terry.

#2 In all of the posts discussing if this team is better or not with Josh Howard, only one post ("ONE" - Norm voice) even mentioned the possible return we might receive by moving him. Only ONE? I do think there is something fundamentally flawed about Josh's game the last two and a half seasons...I think much of it has to do with his very limited passing skill/willingness. Sure, he is not a turn over machine, but he only makes the most basic of passes and he far too often misses (or just doesn't see) the most obvious pass.

#3 If Josh could bring in a solid scoring/defending post presence...I'd move him instantly. (And that is no knee jerk)

#4 All that being said, this team is better suited to play playoff ball with him out there than on the bench. (that is assuming he shows up and plays 4 quarters of good ball)

alby · 12-05-2008, 10:46 AM

Wait... we still have Josh Howard?

dammit

dmack24 · 12-05-2008, 10:54 AM

I do not think that Josh is our issue as much as production point wise from our front court. The Combo of Williams and Green killed us at the two. They could not and do not penetrate the lane like Barrea. If you start playing Green and Wright when healthy again look for Barreas production to go down; thus our production goes down in our front court causing our production to fall overall. If we want to incorporate Josh right without killing ourselves; we need to have this lineup.

PG-Kidd
SG- Barrea
SF-Howard
PF- Dirk
C-Diop or Damp

The scoring in the front court is crucial. The Rotation between Kidd,Barrea, and Terry is working like a charm and we should not mess with t.

alby · 12-05-2008, 10:59 AM

Do you mean backcourt? Or do you really mean frontcourt, because that would explain everything when it pertains to your knowledge about the game of basketball.

Zaknaf3in · 12-05-2008, 11:05 AM

I confess to not having read the last two pages - but I just wanted to help the cornered dawg and say:

Thank you for the ever welcome diversity you bring to a lot of threads.

dmack24 · 12-05-2008, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alby

Do you mean backcourt? Or do you really mean frontcourt, because that would explain everything when it pertains to your knowledge about the game of basketball.

frontcourt, backcourt it does not make a difference how i say things. It does not take a brain seargant to know the reason this team struggles.

joemoeschmoe · 12-05-2008, 11:13 AM

Wait. In the 9 games Josh has played, he's 20-8 on 46% FG. Seriously people..The continued hate of Josh on this board is unjustified. I mean c'mon, better without Josh? When he comes back, the Mavs will be a force to be reckoned with.

The only knocks that are justified is his lack of intensity on defense lately and his poor passing skills. I agree that its nice when a player has a great bball IQ, but its not a requirement. There are coaches and floor leaders that tell you what to do. Not every player on the court needs to understand the game like Steve Nash.

Also, forget the BS about there not being enough "room" on the court for other good players with Josh out there. Thats like saying there's not enough room to play Wade and LeBron together -- Yes their styles might not make each a better player, but you play them together if you have them. Kidd, JET, Josh, Dirk, Damp is a really good line-up that can compete with anybody.

SMC0007 · 12-05-2008, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmack24

frontcourt, backcourt it does not make a difference how i say things. It does not take a brain seargant to know the reason this team struggles.

Yes indeed.

alby · 12-05-2008, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmack24

frontcourt, backcourt it does not make a difference how i say things. It does not take a brain seargant to know the reason this team struggles.

DirkFTW · 12-05-2008, 11:28 AM

Underdog · 12-05-2008, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmack24

frontcourt, backcourt it does not make a difference how i say things.

Actually, it makes a whole lot of difference - in the English language, HOW you say things determines WHAT you're saying...

JJB is a spark guy, not a starter... We've only had success with him in the last two games because we played against small ball teams - Barea would be absolutely USELESS against the likes of San Antonio or Boston...

Flacolaco · 12-05-2008, 11:32 AM

A brain sergeant?

sike · 12-05-2008, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Barea would be absolutely USELESS against the likes of San Antonio or Boston...

Or WOULD he? (see what genius argumentation I just threw down right there?)

SMC0007 · 12-05-2008, 11:35 AM

Sike.....you forgot to rest your case.

Underdog · 12-05-2008, 11:37 AM

...and this is why we need rep fixed...

dalmations202 · 12-05-2008, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Actually, it makes a whole lot of difference - in the English language, HOW you say things determines WHAT you're saying...

JJB is a spark guy, not a starter... We've only had success with him in the last two games because we played against small ball teams - Barea would be absolutely USELESS against the likes of San Antonio or Boston...

I agree, except with the San Antonio part.

Parker is slowing down due to injury, and the rest of that team is old and slow. JJB might actually be useful in staying in front of Parker (who you don't worry about shooting over him) and still penetrating to get defenders out of position.

He would be useless against several teams, Boston included, IMO, but against SA -- he might be a very good spark plug.

The fact that DMack doesn't understand the difference in the backcourt and frontcourt is another story. The fact that he doesn't know the difference in a surgeon and a sergeant is a little questionable. But I like his posting -- it gives us something to B!@ch about.

sike · 12-05-2008, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Sike.....you forgot to rest your case.

It's simply understood that all my posts rest every case.

Underdog · 12-05-2008, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalmations202

The fact that DMack doesn't understand the difference in the backcourt and frontcourt is another story. The fact that he doesn't know the difference in a surgeon and a sergeant is a little questionable. But I like his posting -- it gives us something to B!@ch about.

True - it's always good to have something to b!tch about (because the Mavs just aren't giving us many reasons to complain lately...)

alexamenos · 12-05-2008, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmack24

It does not take a brain seargant to know the reason this team struggles.

dibs on using this quote as my new sig.

SMC0007 · 12-05-2008, 12:01 PM

damn

alexamenos · 12-05-2008, 12:08 PM

I'll say this about the Puerto Rican Retard...he's much better suited to be the backup point guard than I imagined at the start of the season. But still....as a 30 mpg guy at the 2? No way. There may be a few matchups where this doesn't get you killed, but by time the playoffs roll around this isn't a viable thing.

SMC0007 · 12-05-2008, 12:12 PM

As of now we can stop looking for a backup point guard if they were ever doing so. Puerta Rican retard? Thats kinda harsh, especially the way he's been playing...the Porta Rican Brain Seargent may be more fitting.

sike · 12-05-2008, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

the Porta Rican Brain Seargent may be more fitting.

invisible rep

dmack24 · 12-05-2008, 12:48 PM

I dunno besides Terry who do we have to play the two effectively. Wright has not shown us that yet; thats all im sayin.

Underdog · 12-05-2008, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmack24

I dunno besides Terry who do we have to play the two effectively. Wright has not shown us that yet; thats all im sayin.

I wish I could understand what you're saying, but my Brain Sergeant hasn't given me permission to think - all I'm allowed to do is ask "how high?" when he says "jump!"

(life in the Brain Army is complicated - that's why they didn't send us to Iraq...)

alexamenos · 12-05-2008, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmack24

I dunno besides Terry who do we have to play the two effectively. Wright has not shown us that yet; thats all im sayin.

Neither Wright nor Green are ready now, and if they ride the pine all season they're certainly not going to be ready when the playoffs roll around. This is why the PRR thing is such fool's gold -- maybe it's an answer now, but come playoff time it may leave us in worse shape.

That's not to say Ricky C has a lot of great options, if he doesn't go with the best five he can find now there may be no playoffs anyway...

alexamenos · 12-05-2008, 01:09 PM

also...more George. I know I need to duck when I say this, but the guy can give the mavs something.....ok, he doesn't often give it....and with Kidd and Damp/Diop on the floor they already have an abundance of roll players, but still...I have this vague recollection of the mavs playing at a very, very high (ie championship calibre) level with george in the line up and I can't shake it.

ty · 12-05-2008, 01:12 PM

Every student going through medical school dreams of becoming a brain sergeant.

92bDad · 12-05-2008, 01:15 PM

I must admit, last night game was fun to watch!!!

That is the first game that I have watched from start to finish this year, and they appeared to look like a TEAM. No Drama, No Whinning, No Cuban...it was about the players, the team!!!

I might be able to pencil in a few more games.

Funny watching T.O. bust out on Charles...leave LeBron alone!!! T.O. telling anyone to shutup, that was funny.

ghazi · 12-05-2008, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joemoeschmoe

Wait. In the 9 games Josh has played, he's 20-8 on 46% FG. Seriously people..The continued hate of Josh on this board is unjustified. I mean c'mon, better without Josh? When he comes back, the Mavs will be a force to be reckoned with.

The only knocks that are justified is his lack of intensity on defense lately and his poor passing skills. I agree that its nice when a player has a great bball IQ, but its not a requirement. There are coaches and floor leaders that tell you what to do. Not every player on the court needs to understand the game like Steve Nash.

Also, forget the BS about there not being enough "room" on the court for other good players with Josh out there. Thats like saying there's not enough room to play Wade and LeBron together -- Yes their styles might not make each a better player, but you play them together if you have them. Kidd, JET, Josh, Dirk, Damp is a really good line-up that can compete with anybody.

I think some fear it's a case of addition by subtraction. We would gain Howard's 20/8 but lose a more smoothly flowing offense and Terry would cool off, amongst other things.

I'm not sure what to think. This team is 8-1 in the last 9 and Josh played well in the first 2 games of this recent 8-1 stretch.

But who is to say we wouldn't be 8-1 anyway even if Josh was playing? The schedule has been a little cushy.

What if we're playing better because of no Stackhouse? We're like 8-2 or 9-2 when he doesn't play games this year.

Stackhouse is a bigger blackhole than Howard.

Kidd Karma · 12-05-2008, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexamenos

I'll say this about the Puerto Rican Retard...he's much better suited to be the backup point guard than I imagined at the start of the season. But still....as a 30 mpg guy at the 2? No way. There may be a few matchups where this doesn't get you killed, but by time the playoffs roll around this isn't a viable thing.

Was he playing that much at the 2, can't really see that. Kidd played 33 minutes, so Barea had to see some time there, maybe 15 there and 15 at the 2. But with their different qualities, they can play interchangeably offensively. Defensively, if Terry's on the floor we can see Kidd manning up a forward. Barea definitely gives us a good weapon at times against Parker-Paul.

alexamenos · 12-05-2008, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Was he playing that much at the 2, can't really see that. Kidd played 33 minutes, so Barea had to see some time there, maybe 15 there and 15 at the 2. But with their different qualities, they can play interchangeably offensively. Defensively, if Terry's on the floor we can see Kidd manning up a forward. Barea definitely gives us a good weapon at times against Parker-Paul.

I do agree that it doesn't matter whether you call kidd the 1(2) and PRR the 2(1). And as one of the tnt guys mentioned last night, you can always put PRR on a stationary three point guy anyway.

I don't know....I guess it remains to be seen whether he's the Puerto Rican AI or the Puerto Rican Early Boykins.

joemoeschmoe · 12-05-2008, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghazi

I think some fear it's a case of addition by subtraction. We would gain Howard's 20/8 but lose a more smoothly flowing offense and Terry would cool off, amongst other things.

I'm not sure what to think. This team is 8-1 in the last 9 and Josh played well in the first 2 games of this recent 8-1 stretch.

But who is to say we wouldn't be 8-1 anyway even if Josh was playing? The schedule has been a little cushy.

What if we're playing better because of no Stackhouse? We're like 8-2 or 9-2 when he doesn't play games this year.

Stackhouse is a bigger blackhole than Howard.

I think the streak has more to do with Stack leaving than Howard leaving and the Mavs, as a whole, just pulling things together and starting to flow more (they had seemed to right the ship with Howard still on board).

I really think Josh playing won't cool off Terry. What cools off Terry is when he's not aggressive. When JET was cold was when he was just sitting outside and taking long jumpers instead of attacking the basket. Of course, I can't really prove that Josh could be addition by subtraction, but I find it very hard to believe that to be the case.

I do, however, think fear is the operative word here. Josh doesn't really kill the offense. OK, he was an offensive black-hole for the 2nd half of last year, but he seems to have righted his shot selection this year.

Look at Ron Artest's numbers this year...now that's a black hole. Although, Stack @ 29% wins the black hole war.

sike · 12-05-2008, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 92bDad

I must admit, last night game was fun to watch!!!

This phrase made me laugh. "I must admit it"

dirno2000 · 12-05-2008, 03:33 PM

We have three scoring threats on our team and people are saying that we may need to get rid of one so the second can continue to flourish. That makes no sense. We need more offense not less.

Trading Josh is just spinning your whells. I made that point this summer to those who were calling the FO idiots for not moving him for Artest. Based on what we've seen so far it would have been going backwards. Like Joe said Joe S just said, Artest is the ball stopper. Josh is a pretty efficient scorer.

LonghornDub · 12-05-2008, 03:38 PM

I wanted to trade Bass and Stack for Artest. Not Josh.

dirno2000 · 12-05-2008, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I wanted to trade Bass and Stack for Artest. Not Josh.

True, but you know that over half the board wanted to trade him for Artest. There was a poll that said as much.