What should we do this summer: a poll

[EricaLubarsky]

Just an unofficial poll of what you would like the Mavs to do

[Underdog]

keep dirk, keep the core, pursue a big-name FA, jettison fan base

[badfish22]

Getting Lebron would be cool.

[Mavericks Rockets Fan]

1. Hope none of LeBron, JJ, Boozer, or Bosh end up in Miami.
2. Get D-whistle to come to Dallas.
3. Party like crazy when we win an NBA championship!

[chumdawg]

Could you define "core"?

[tcat075]

Yeah, what does "blow up the core" mean? What does "keep the core" mean?

Personally, I'd love to get a mid- to high-level free agent who replaces JET. JET is a score player. But does getting rid of JET "blow up the core"? Not really?

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by tcat075

Yeah, what does "blow up the core" mean? What does "keep the core" mean?

Personally, I'd love to get a mid- to high-level free agent who replaces JET. JET is a score player. But does getting rid of JET "blow up the core"? Not really?

I am SO ready for Jet to be gone.

[Dirkadirkastan]

Why would you vote the second or fourth option? How is a "mid-range FA" more desirable than a "big-name FA"?

[CrazyBoy]

its more realistic...

[rabbitproof]

Yeah.. I think you have to blow up the core if you want a big free agent.

Otherwise, who doesn't want to be filthy rich without working or being clever?

[Mavericks Rockets Fan]

Originally Posted by CrazyBoy

its more realistic...

Do you have a particular MLE free agent in mind that you think Dallas would get? Personally, I think Cuban will be going after a big name this summer...

[LonghornDub]

I'm also not sure who the "core" is anymore besides Dirk. Presumably Butler, but who else? Terry?

[badfish22]

Dirk, Kidd and Terry are the core it seems.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I'm also not sure who the "core" is anymore besides Dirk. Presumably Butler, but who else? Terry?

I don't think the Mavs have had a "core" since Steve Nash and Michael Finley were in Mavs uniforms. Not that I'm pining for the days of yore. My only point is that Cuban and Donnie have had several years to get Dirk the proper support and have failed to do so. Outside of Dirk, there's nobody the Mavs can't afford to lose.

Except maybe Kidd. For better or worse, I would say our "core" consists of Dirk and Kidd.

Terry is dead weight as far as I'm concerned. For all intents and purposes, Roddy is the new Jet.

[Underdog]

Core = Kidd, Butler, Marion, Haywood, Terry, Damp (who technically doesn't count since we already know he's getting dealt/cut...)

That's my interpretation anyway...

[KINGBEEF]

My Core = Dirk, Kidd, Roddy B, Haywood... honestly everyone else can be dealt as far as i'm concern. Wait let me show Marion some love because he's pretty good on D and slashing.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by KINGBEEF

My Core = Dirk, Kidd, Roddy B, Haywood... honestly everyone else can be dealt as far as i'm concern. Wait let me show Marion some love because he's pretty good on D and slashing.

I was basing my core on payroll.

[badfish22]

Haywood is a free agent and Butler just got here and could likely be trade. If they aren't here next year I wont say our core got broke apart.

[KINGBEEF]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I was basing my core on payroll.

it's all good, i was just basing my core on my opinion.

[LonghornDub]

I think Terry still has some utility here, but he needs to slowly be moved into a lesser role. Other than Dirk and Kidd, though, I think anyone can go. But I'd be disappointed if we can't find a way to keep Haywood--I don't wanna go from two seven-footers to zero....

[KINGBEEF]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I think Terry still has some utility here, but he needs to slowly be moved into a lesser role. Other than Dirk and Kidd, though, I think anyone can go. But I'd be disappointed if we can't find a way to keep Haywood--I don't wanna go from two seven-footers to zero....

Just curious on what you thoughts are about Roddy B?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I think Terry still has some utility here, but he needs to slowly be moved into a lesser role. Other than Dirk and Kidd, though, I think anyone can go. But I'd be disappointed if we can't find a way to keep Haywood--I don't wanna go from two seven-footers to zero....

If we keep Terry, I'd like to see this summer's moves push him into the same role that Barea served.


(fingers crossed, LSD ingested...)

[BGMaverick9]

Joe Johnson seems like the most realistic "get" out of the big name guys but his performances in this series with Orlando has me skeptical. I only saw the first quarter of today's game but with a guy who has been struggling, he continued forcing up jump shots and they weren't overly great looks.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I think Terry still has some utility here, but he needs to slowly be moved into a lesser role. Other than Dirk and Kidd, though, I think anyone can go. But I'd be disappointed if we can't find a way to keep Haywood--I don't wanna go from two seven-footers to zero....

He needs to fall to a 8th man role, maybe 7th...if you get something from him then it's awesome but if he puts up a stinker it just doesn't hit you as hard because you're expecting some inconsistency from that position in the rotation.

Skin was mentioning Haywood as a viable trade asset in regards to getting someone like Joe Johnson...I thought that was kind of interesting. But then, we're basically screwed at the center position. You have to get creative with DUST and you're MLE/BAE to get bigs.

[KINGBEEF]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

He needs to fall to a 8th man role, maybe 7th...if you get something from him then it's awesome but if he puts up a stinker it just doesn't hit you as hard because you're expecting some inconsistency from that position in the rotation.

Skin was mentioning Haywood as a viable trade asset in regards to getting someone like Joe Johnson...I thought that was kind of interesting. But then, we're basically screwed at the center position. You have to get creative with DUST and you're MLE/BAE to get bigs.

Joe Johnson is good, but just like you said he seems to force up a lot of jump shots. And that's the last thing we need is another jump shooter. If we can keep Haywood and get someone that drives to the hole. I can live with that

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I don't think the Mavs have had a "core" since Steve Nash and Michael Finley were in Mavs uniforms. Not that I'm pining for the days of yore. My only point is that Cuban and Donnie have had several years to get Dirk the proper support and have failed to do so. Outside of Dirk, there's nobody the Mavs can't afford to lose.

Except maybe Kidd. For better or worse, I would say our "core" consists of Dirk and Kidd.

Terry is dead weight as far as I'm concerned. For all intents and purposes, Roddy is the new Jet.

This is what I was thinking about. But actually, I think Howard and Terry were pretty much "core" for a while there, and Harris probably was too. I guess you would also include Dampier.

On the one hand you could say that the Mavs have kept churning parts around the one constant Dirk (and certainly give Dirk credit for that). But on the other hand, Howard and Terry and Dampier logged a whole lot of time here. That was pretty much a "core."

One of those is gone, one is on the way out for sure, you would think, and the third is evidently in a steep decline reminiscent of the good ol' Findawg.

Butler and Haywood replace two of them, so I guess that's the new core. And of course, Kidd in place of Harris.

I'm just realizing that I haven't mentioned Marion in any of this...

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

He needs to fall to a 8th man role, maybe 7th...if you get something from him then it's awesome but if he puts up a stinker it just doesn't hit you as hard because you're expecting some inconsistency from that position in the rotation.

Skin was mentioning Haywood as a viable trade asset in regards to getting someone like Joe Johnson...I thought that was kind of interesting. But then, we're basically screwed at the center position. You have to get creative with DUST and you're MLE/BAE to get bigs.

Looking at the center positions of the teams left in the West, I think I'm ready to deal for Bosh and let Dirk and him man the 4/5.

[Underdog]

You could pretty much get Joe Johnson straight-up for the DUST Chip.

Not a bad Plan B.


Kidd/Roddy
JJ/JET
Butler/Matrix
Dirk/Matrix
Haywood/Damp

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by KINGBEEF

Joe Johnson is good, but just like you said he seems to force up a lot of jump shots. And that's the last thing we need is another jump shooter. If we can keep Haywood and get someone that drives to the hole. I can live with that

It makes sense if you have a plan that can be executed to bolster the center spot. Atlanta would want Haywood to battle against Howard and Howard has said that Haywood is a great defender and gives him trouble.

The problem is we clearly can't beat around the bush and hope to have a second or third tier player come here and have the "new landscape" fix him and maximize the potential. We've been doing it for too long and getting the same results. So we have to go for the big fish, the problem is there aren't a whole lot out there and things have to fall our way to make it happen. Joe's situation definitely is presenting itself as an opportunity, but it's definitely wait and see.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Underdog

You could pretty much get Joe Johnson straight-up for the DUST Chip.

Not a bad Plan B.

I'd figure they would want Butler maybe to help fill the gap of losing Joe and we have to take back something in return. Depending on the piece, I don't really have TOO big of a problem with it

Haywood
Dirk
Marion
JJ
Kidd

Roddy, _____, Jet, Najera, etc. etc.

[KINGBEEF]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

It makes sense if you have a plan that can be executed to bolster the center spot. Atlanta would want Haywood to battle against Howard and Howard has said that Haywood is a great defender and gives him trouble.

The problem is we clearly can't beat around the bush and hope to have a second or third tier player come here and have the "new landscape" fix him and maximize the potential. We've been doing it for too long and getting the same results. So we have to go for the big fish, the problem is there aren't a whole lot out there and things have to fall our way to make it happen. Joe's situation definitely is presenting itself as an opportunity, but it's definitely wait and see.

Yeah it's almost like the summer can't get here fast enough. Honestly it's like pick you poison on who we'd give up to get what in return. But with that being said so far the only bandwagon that i'm definitely on is the trade Damp bandwagon. See what we can get for him and I guess just build off of that

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I'd figure they would want Butler maybe to help fill the gap of losing Joe and we have to take back something in return. Depending on the piece, I don't really have TOO big of a problem with it

Haywood
Dirk
Marion
JJ
Kidd

Roddy, _____, Jet, Najera, etc. etc.

They can have Barea.

Or suck it.



EDIT: or JET?

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Could you define "core"?

The core is kinda Dirk at this point. You hope that Roddy turns into a core type player. I suppose Kidd has to be part of the core because you can't move him.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Underdog

They can have Barea.

Or suck it.

If it's Damp and Barea for Joe, I don't see how Atlanta takes that deal unless they can't find another kind of deal with another team for S&T. Saw the edit with Jet...I don't think they're biting on that either.

We need to find a way to get Drew Gooden back here, he wouldn't hurt at all.

[clutch#41]

what should we do.....hmmmmm
fire carlisle
give roddyB mins
trade Damp,Marion,Barea For A SG
Dirk Sign and Trade For Stoudemire
Resign Haywood

Haywood
Amare
Butler
Sg Aquisition
Kidd

Roddy B..JET...resign gooden..najera..stevenson etc

this is what id do! Bc Dirk isnt gonna win anything here.06 was our chance!!

[clutch#41]

Originally Posted by Underdog

You could pretty much get Joe Johnson straight-up for the DUST Chip.

Not a bad Plan B.


Kidd/Roddy
JJ/JET
Butler/Matrix
Dirk/Matrix
Haywood/Damp

hahahahahaah you must be high.damp straight up for johnson?? your in dreamland!

[SeriousSummer]

The short answer to the thread question is build a championship contender around Dirk. If Dirk leaves, then the Mavs are out in the weeds again just like the 1990s.

So first we need to understand what it takes to be a championship level team in the NBA today. The first thing you have to be able to do to win in today's NBA is score. With the new limits on hand checking, etc. it is no long possible to win by scoring 85 points and holding your opponent to 80 points. The Mavs beat the Spurs when they scored 100. The Suns have won three straight by scoring 110 points per game. The Magic put up 115 today in beating Atlanta, and the Lakers edged the Jazz 111-110.

That doesn't mean teams don't need to play good defense, but if you can't put at least 100 points up per game, then you can't win play off series in the NBA today.

As presently constructed, the Mavs can't put up 100 point per game and still play passable defense. For most of the year the Mavs started three players that weren't notable scoring threats--Jason Kidd, Shawn Marion and Erick Dampier. Yes, all three players could score in certain situations, but none of then can consistently make their own shot. Dirk plus Caron Butler plus those three can't score enough to win.

So many times the Mavs had to compensate for their lack of scoring by going small and playing Barea, Terry or Beaubois excessive minutes. Now they could score enough to compete, but the team couldn't play passable defense with Barea and Terry playing big minutes. During the regular season, the Mavs got away with playing different teams to score (going small) and to play defense (the starting line up). During the play offs, we saw that strategy fail. Changes are necessary.

Let's start by looking at the starting five. The Mavs have three nonscorers. You can get away with one; or two if you have two players that demand double teams--two superstars. The Mavs have one in Dirk. I only see two (barely) available superstars that the Mavs have any legitimate chance to get: Joe Johnson and Dwayne Wade. Lebron James is beyond the Mavs pay grade. He'll either stay in Cleveland, go to New York, or someone will put together a better package than the Mavs can for James. I don't think Bosch helps the Mavs very much. He plays too much the same position as Dirk. I don't see a good trading match up for Amare and I'm not sure he gets the Mavs where they need to go.

If the Mavs can make a deal for Joe Johnson, then it's going to cost Damp (for salary match) and two out of three of Butler, Beaubois and either a 2011 or 2012 1st rounder (depending on when the deal is made). Wade costs you all three of Butler, Beaubois and a draft choice. So the Mavs end up with something like the following:

Kidd, Barea
Wade or Johnson, Terry
Marion, Tim Thomas
Dirk, Najera
Haywood, and the best back up center you can get for the MLE.

Those teams are legitimate championship contenders, and the easiest way to get there. My next post will discuss what the Mavs can do if they can't get a superstar that commands double teams.

[badfish22]

Joe or Iggy? Assuming the asking price was the same.

[Mavericks Rockets Fan]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Joe Johnson basically a jump shooter? For that reason alone, I'd rather have Iggy who drives it to the basket more and gets more free throws...

[badfish22]

^ thats what I was thinking. Joe is the overall better player though (or at least I think so, no sure after watching these playoffs)