Official 2008 NFL Thread - Page 10 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Dtownsfinest · 10-06-2008, 06:43 PM

I don't know if he's talking about Sean or Jason but Jason Taylor hasn't played well this season. So bad to the point where I don't think you can say "without Taylor" myself. Clearly his best days are behind him. That's sort of like us saying "without Kevin Burnett".

Caseman · 10-06-2008, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I don't know if he's talking about Sean or Jason but Jason Taylor hasn't played well this season. So bad to the point where I don't think you can say "without Taylor" myself. Clearly his best days are behind him. That's sort of like us saying "without Kevin Burnett".

He's only played three games on a new team (and has a sack, mind you), so I don't know what poor season you are talking about. I don't care if he impacts the defense statistically, but he is going to draw attention from the OL, whether that's forcing them to double-team or change their formations to accommodate.

That's sort of like me saying Terrence Newman hasn't played well this season. So bad to the point where I don't think you can say you miss him in your secondary.

DirkFTW · 10-06-2008, 09:16 PM

I, for one, totally forgot Jason Taylor was now a Redskin.

Dtownsfinest · 10-06-2008, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caseman

He's only played three games on a new team (and has a sack, mind you), so I don't know what poor season you are talking about. I don't care if he impacts the defense statistically, but he is going to draw attention from the OL, whether that's forcing them to double-team or change their formations to accommodate.

That's sort of like me saying Terrence Newman hasn't played well this season. So bad to the point where I don't think you can say you miss him in your secondary.

He hasn't been good this season. He was damn near non-existant those 3 games. I don't recall him get any pressure on Eli in the Redskins first meeting with the Giants. But i'm not really understanding your point. Newman hasn't been good this season lol. So what's your point about bringing him up? And he's our best corner. Possibly our only shut down corner. He's been hurt since training camp so i'd consider his situation a little different than Taylor's. Taylor is just old. Newman's just hurt. Redskins have proved that the loss of Taylor means nothing. Redskins are confident enough to go man to man with TO. The only team that has done that against the Cowboys this season.

Caseman · 10-06-2008, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

He hasn't been good this season. He was damn near non-existant those 3 games. I don't recall him get any pressure on Eli in the Redskins first meeting with the Giants. But i'm not really understanding your point. Newman hasn't been good this season lol. So what's your point about bringing him up? And he's our best corner. Possibly our only shut down corner. He's been hurt since training camp so i'd consider his situation a little different than Taylor's. Taylor is just old. Newman's just hurt. Redskins have proved that the loss of Taylor means nothing. Redskins are confident enough to go man to man with TO. The only team that has done that against the Cowboys this season.

Now you're just being a lunatic. Newman was hurt during training camp so he's gets a by, but Taylor injured during the pre-season has nothing to do with his consistency? How much Redskin football do you even watch to say Taylor never gets pressure, to say Taylor is too old for the game, or to say he counts as no loss to the Redskins? Why don't you stop now.

Also, stating that Newman is a shutdown corner just further diminishes your point. Not even the Dallas pundits believe that. Jason "the-old-man" Taylor has more sacks than he has interceptions.

fluid.forty.one · 10-06-2008, 10:24 PM

They really need to make errors in football like in baseball.. I hate seeing a perfect throw bounce off a receivers hands and turn into an interception.

FINtastic · 10-06-2008, 10:28 PM

Whoa, Reggie Bush is putting on a clinic on these punt returns tonight. He just had his second punt return for a TD, and he would have probably had a third if it wasn't for an unexplainable slip on an earlier electric return.

FINtastic · 10-06-2008, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caseman

Also, stating that Newman is a shutdown corner just further diminishes your point. Not even the Dallas pundits believe that.

What pundits are you listening to?

FINtastic · 10-06-2008, 10:40 PM

Wow, this MNF game is turning into a fun one. Berrian just made a pretty darn good play there on that catch.

Caseman · 10-06-2008, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

What pundits are you listening to?

Everyone around a week ago.

Look, I'm not trying to bash Newman. I think he is a great corner. I'm just using him to satire the statement by Dtownsfinest.

FINtastic · 10-06-2008, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caseman

Now you're just being a lunatic. Newman was hurt during training camp so he's gets a by, but Taylor injured during the pre-season has nothing to do with his consistency? How much Redskin football do you even watch to say Taylor never gets pressure, to say Taylor is too old for the game, or to say he counts as no loss to the Redskins? Why don't you stop now.

Also, stating that Newman is a shutdown corner just further diminishes your point. Not even the Dallas pundits believe that. Jason "the-old-man" Taylor has more sacks than he has interceptions.

And what the heck is with your last line? Jason Taylor is better because he has more sacks than Newman has interceptions? Um, sacks are a lot easier to come by in this league than interceptions . This is completely an apples to oranges comparisons. It's akin to saying Gus Frerotte is more explosive offensively than Adrian Peterson because he's got more yards so far than Peterson.

By the way, are you really trying to judge Terrence Newman's worth by the number of interceptions? Reading some of your comments, it certainly seems like you are. Have you really watched Newman play before this season? Newman isn't a huge playmaker, but more turnovers don't make a better cornerback.

FINtastic · 10-06-2008, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caseman

Everyone around a week ago.

Look, I'm not trying to bash Newman. I think he is a great corner. I'm just using him to satire the statement by Dtownsfinest.

He may not be a shutdown corner so far this season. But it's revisionist history to say he wasn't one before this season. I'm pretty sure that's the only thing Dtown is arguing about Newman is that he was at least capable of playing at that level before this season (injuries are hindering him so far). Unless of course you hold corners to really, really high standards and think there are only 2 shutdown corners in this league. But most don't work by that definition.

FINtastic · 10-06-2008, 10:54 PM

I wish they would show a replay of Gramatica shanking that field goal because I could have sworn I saw him start to celebrate early. That would have been good for some lulz. Anyone TIVO it?

alby · 10-07-2008, 12:53 AM

Newman is the best cornerback in the NFC East, and arguably the best in the NFC; but, the man gets injured way too often--he is the Tracy McGrady of the NFL on the defensive side of the ball.

Also, I would love to have Jason Taylor here and this is coming from the biggest Foreskin Hater around. He's been slowed down significantly by injuries and his off-season "training regiment", but like Caseman stated earlier... his mere presence is just as, or even more important than the numbers he will put up statistically.. similar to Erick Dampier for the Mavericks.

Caseman · 10-07-2008, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

And what the heck is with your last line? Jason Taylor is better because he has more sacks than Newman has interceptions? Um, sacks are a lot easier to come by in this league than interceptions . This is completely an apples to oranges comparisons. It's akin to saying Gus Frerotte is more explosive offensively than Adrian Peterson because he's got more yards so far than Peterson.

By the way, are you really trying to judge Terrence Newman's worth by the number of interceptions? Reading some of your comments, it certainly seems like you are. Have you really watched Newman play before this season? Newman isn't a huge playmaker, but more turnovers don't make a better cornerback.

No, no. Just forget about Newman. I was just using him to satire what was said about Taylor. I was just trying to show statistics (like sacks, like interceptions) don't always show how effectively a defensive player is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alby

Newman is the best cornerback in the NFC East, and arguably the best in the NFC; but, the man gets injured way too often--he is the Tracy McGrady of the NFL on the defensive side of the ball.

Also, I would love to have Jason Taylor here and this is coming from the biggest Foreskin Hater around. He's been slowed down significantly by injuries and his off-season "training regiment", but like Caseman stated earlier... his mere presence is just as, or even more important than the numbers he will put up statistically.. similar to Erick Dampier for the Mavericks.

Between Newman and Samuel, they are the top corners of the division. But yes, that was what I was trying to say about Taylor.

nikeball · 10-07-2008, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

Whoa, Reggie Bush is putting on a clinic on these punt returns tonight. He just had his second punt return for a TD, and he would have probably had a third if it wasn't for an unexplainable slip on an earlier electric return.

I don't understand why Bush isn't back there for every punt/kickoff. With Deuce back..his carries should diminish...New Orleans should try to get him as many touches as possible. I think Bush is like Barry Sanders-lite. He is a home run play waiting to happen each time he touches the ball.

Dtownsfinest · 10-07-2008, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caseman

Now you're just being a lunatic. Newman was hurt during training camp so he's gets a by, but Taylor injured during the pre-season has nothing to do with his consistency? How much Redskin football do you even watch to say Taylor never gets pressure, to say Taylor is too old for the game, or to say he counts as no loss to the Redskins? Why don't you stop now.

Also, stating that Newman is a shutdown corner just further diminishes your point. Not even the Dallas pundits believe that. Jason "the-old-man" Taylor has more sacks than he has interceptions.

So interceptions determine how good a cornerback is? Cromartie lead the league in td's last season and he's not a shut down corner. Far from it. The only reason he gets as many INT's that he does is because of his press coverage and him biting on any pass that comes his way. He still gets beat more than the average corner. So if you want to determine what a shut down corner is by INTs than you fail IMO. Champ Bailey has 1 INT this year and had 3 all of last year. Not to mention I never exactly said Newman was a shut down corner. I said "possibly a shut down corner". You're letting your homerism blind your judgement. If through 3 games you think 7 tackles and a sack is Jason Taylor standards than be my guess. But that's not the Jason Taylor of old. That's just a old ass Jason Taylor. And like I stated above, the Redskins were the only team to go man to man with TO this season and we've seen some of the best secondary's in the league from the Eagles to the Packers and neither went man to man with TO. The Redskins did and were successful. And yea Taylor is too old for the game. Why do you think the Dolphins gave him up? Just because he was too good lol? Just like Zach Thomas they gave him up because he's too old to play for a team that's in rebuilding mode. I'm actually shocked the Redskins gave up a 2nd rounder for him. Actually i'm not sense they're notoriously known for trading draft picks for old players.

Dtownsfinest · 10-07-2008, 03:59 PM

Quote:

No, no. Just forget about Newman. I was just using him to satire what was said about Taylor. I was just trying to show statistics (like sacks, like interceptions) don't always show how effectively a defensive player is.

What? You just sat here and went at my comment that Newman possibly was a shut down cornerback and even brought up pundits around Dallas that would agree with you that he's not a shut down corner and now you were just trying to show how statistics don't always show how effective a defensive player is? Hmmm....If you back peddle any further you might run into something.

Caseman · 10-07-2008, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

So interceptions determine how good a cornerback is? Cromartie lead the league in td's last season and he's not a shut down corner. Far from it. The only reason he gets as many INT's that he does is because of his press coverage and him biting on any pass that comes his way. He still gets beat more than the average corner. So if you want to determine what a shut down corner is by INTs than you fail IMO. Champ Bailey has 1 INT this year and had 3 all of last year. Not to mention I never exactly said Newman was a shut down corner. I said "possibly a shut down corner". You're letting your homerism blind your judgement. If through 3 games you think 7 tackles and a sack is Jason Taylor standards than be my guess. But that's not the Jason Taylor of old. That's just a old ass Jason Taylor. And like I stated above, the Redskins were the only team to go man to man with TO this season and we've seen some of the best secondary's in the league from the Eagles to the Packers and neither went man to man with TO. The Redskins did and were successful. And yea Taylor is too old for the game. Why do you think the Dolphins gave him up? Just because he was too good lol? Just like Zach Thomas they gave him up because he's too old to play for a team that's in rebuilding mode. I'm actually shocked the Redskins gave up a 2nd rounder for him. Actually i'm not sense they're notoriously known for trading draft picks for old players.

Actually you said "possibly our only shut down corner," but whatever. That's not my point, so don't get into a tizzy. I was just showing that statistics don't dictate how well a player has performed so far (as in interceptions with Newman or sacks with Taylor).

On the topic of Taylor, I still don't understand your point. Miami is in a rebuild mode, and with the conflict between Taylor and Parcells, why would they keep him? Does that make him useless? You say the Redskins overpaid for him so no reason? Did you forget the freak injuries to both defensive ends, Phillip Daniels and Alex Buzbee? You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. You claim Taylor never gets any pressure on the QBs, yet in his first three games on a new defense, he's already gotten a sack. However, I'm not even worried about his stats because he is going to draw double-teams or formations to accommodate his presence, opening lanes for the other tackles.

So try to make an arguement without saying "jason taylor is too old lol" or just drop it.

Caseman · 10-07-2008, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

What? You just sat here and went at my comment that Newman possibly was a shut down cornerback and even brought up pundits around Dallas that would agree with you that he's not a shut down corner and now you were just trying to show how statistics don't always show how effective a defensive player is? Hmmm....If you back peddle any further you might run into something.

Hmm... why don't you read my posts... hmmm...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caseman

That's sort of like me saying Terrence Newman hasn't played well this season. So bad to the point where I don't think you can say you miss him in your secondary.

satire - the use of irony, sarcasm, ridicule, or the like, in exposing, denouncing, or deriding vice, folly, etc.

Dtownsfinest · 10-07-2008, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caseman

Actually you said "possibly our only shut down corner," but whatever. That's not my point, so don't get into a tizzy. I was just showing that statistics don't dictate how well a player has performed so far (as in interceptions with Newman or sacks with Taylor).

On the topic of Taylor, I still don't understand your point. Miami is in a rebuild mode, and with the conflict between Taylor and Parcells, why would they keep him? Does that make him useless? You say the Redskins overpaid for him so no reason? Did you forget the freak injuries to both defensive ends, Phillip Daniels and Alex Buzbee? You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. You claim Taylor never gets any pressure on the QBs, yet in his first three games on a new defense, he's already gotten a sack. However, I'm not even worried about his stats because he is going to draw double-teams or formations to accommodate his presence, opening lanes for the other tackles.

So try to make an arguement without saying "jason taylor is too old lol" or just drop it.

You're letting my post go over your head. I never said the Redskins overpaid for Taylor or that he was worthless. I said he's old. His best days are behind him. My point is the Redskins don't need Taylor to win. I don't know what else to back that up with other than beating the Cowboys at home and the Eagles. without him. Yet, with Jason Taylor they lose to the Giants. They're only loss. There's no argument to be made. Its facts. You're basing your opinion on history. On what you expect for Taylor to do. On what he's done in the past. If Taylor becomes the beast he was 2 years ago or even a year ago i'll eat crow.

Quote:

Hmm... why don't you read my posts... hmmm...

Did you not say this:

"Also, stating that Newman is a shutdown corner just further diminishes your point. Not even the Dallas pundits believe that." -Caseman

I don't know if you've had a bad day or its a Cowboy-Redskin rivalry type thing but you're coming off as a a-hole for no apparent reason. Why don't I read your posts? Why are you coming at me like that?

You can call it whatever you want. You said it and you can try to ridicule me if you want but i'm not the only person in this thread that took this as a negative. And then you try to bring up fans in Dallas to back your opinion up lol. But its all satire so its all good.

Underdog · 10-07-2008, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caseman

That's sort of like me saying Terrence Newman hasn't played well this season. So bad to the point where I don't think you can say you miss him in your secondary.

satire - the use of irony, sarcasm, ridicule, or the like, in exposing, denouncing, or deriding vice, folly, etc.

Um, that's not satire...

[you've got the "sarcasm & ridicule" part down, but you're certainly not "exposing, denouncing, or deriding vice or folly" with that statement about Newman...]

Mr. T says: "be cool - stay in school, sucka!"

Caseman · 10-07-2008, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

You're letting my post go over your head. I never said the Redskins overpaid for Taylor or that he was worthless. I said he's old. His best days are behind him.

Actually, you said this:
". . .And yea Taylor is too old for the game. Why do you think the Dolphins gave him up? Just because he was too good lol? Just like Zach Thomas they gave him up because he's too old to play for a team that's in rebuilding mode. I'm actually shocked the Redskins gave up a 2nd rounder for him. Actually i'm not sense they're notoriously known for trading draft picks for old players."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

My point is the Redskins don't need Taylor to win. I don't know what else to back that up with other than beating the Cowboys at home and the Eagles. without him. Yet, with Jason Taylor they lose to the Giants. They're only loss. There's no argument to be made. Its facts. You're basing your opinion on history. On what you expect for Taylor to do. On what he's done in the past. If Taylor becomes the beast he was 2 years ago or even a year ago i'll eat crow.

Are you going to honestly use the opening game against the Giants has your concrete proof? First of all, Jason Taylor was questionable to start with an injury before his first game on a new team in ten years. Secondly, the whole team looked out of sorts in that game.

And in the both games @Dallas and @Philadelphia, the Washington defense got a whopping total of zero sacks on the QB. Why do you think that Jason Taylor will make no difference here. Not necessarily totalling the sack stats himself, but opening the lanes for the other tackles. I don't know what is so hard to understand about this. Why can't you possibly fathom that the Redskins can be better with Taylor?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Did you not say this:

"Also, stating that Newman is a shutdown corner just further diminishes your point. Not even the Dallas pundits believe that." -Caseman

I don't know why you won't let this go. I was responding to how you can call Taylor "too old for the game," but then mention Newman as a "shutdown corner." Again, all of it was sarcastic criticism to contradict your comment on Taylor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Um, that's not satire...

[you've got the "sarcasm & ridicule" part down, but you're certainly not "exposing, denouncing, or deriding vice or folly" with that statement about Newman...]

It is if I believe his notion that Taylor means nothing is folly.

BGMaverick9 · 10-12-2008, 02:19 PM

Are the 'Skins going to look like fools this week? You can't lose to the 0-4 Rams!

DirkFTW · 10-12-2008, 02:26 PM

Any Given Sunday. I'm sure lots of people were thinking the same thing about us against the Bengals.

What is up with Detroit's QB running out the back of the endzone for a safety?? Looked like he forgot where he was.

Windmill360 · 10-12-2008, 02:47 PM

Atlanta is flying high.

BGMaverick9 · 10-12-2008, 02:53 PM

I think Chicago steals it. Those missed FGs can kill you.

Windmill360 · 10-12-2008, 03:05 PM

Dont F this up St Loui

Windmill360 · 10-12-2008, 03:06 PM

wow are you kidding me st louis

Windmill360 · 10-12-2008, 03:08 PM

that guys should be cut for such a stupid penalty.

RAMS WIN!!

FALCONS WIN!!

BGMaverick9 · 10-12-2008, 03:10 PM

Great 4th to watch with Chicago/Atlanta. Both teams had it locked down at different times and had huge plays or drives carry them. Good for Atlanta, they need some good news.

Washington...whoops...

chumdawg · 10-12-2008, 03:11 PM

You have GOT to love Atlanta. That is easily my favorite non-Cowboy team. Go Falcons!!

dude1394 · 10-12-2008, 03:12 PM

Damn WashRedskins...may have cost me 800 bucks!! That's what I get for counting on the dang redskins to take care of business.

Washington just doesn't work.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 10-12-2008, 03:12 PM

I knew Washington was going to slip up, not neccessarily this week who would predict that against the Rams. But they were pulling out wins in the 4th quarter game after game, that catches up with you eventually.

Caseman · 10-12-2008, 03:14 PM

All things came together for the Redskins to lose. Three fumbles in scoring position and a hail mary pass to set up the winning field-goal. Wasn't their day.

alby · 10-12-2008, 03:14 PM

those first set of games were a amazing

crazy finishes!

chumdawg · 10-12-2008, 03:21 PM

I am seriously totally in love with Atlanta.

Flacolaco · 10-12-2008, 05:09 PM

I have determined that there is no such thing as a truly good team in the NFL right now.

Dtownsfinest · 10-12-2008, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

I have determined that there is no such thing as a truly good team in the NFL right now.

Is that the case? Or is it that there are too many good teams in the league? And if not, how can you say otherwise? One 5-0 team, Six 4-2 teams, a couple of 3-3 teams all in the NFC.

Flacolaco · 10-12-2008, 07:50 PM

There are only 4 teams in the NFC with a losing record.

It is just weird out there.

I still can't believe Washington today. I would've bet my house on Washington in that one. That is unbelievable.