Were the 60 Minutes Documents Faked?

[madape]

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/webl...uments-_Forged

Stolen from Little Green Footballs....

"1973" Document



2004 Document using Microsoft Word



Here they are superimposed on each other:

[TheLou]

Everything I've seen so far makes it look like those documents are fake, heres another good site with plenty of info about those documents and why they are forgeries

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/007760.php

[Road Rage]

Another article on this

[kg_veteran]

Sure looks like they were faked.

CBS has some explaining to do.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
Sure looks like they were faked.

CBS has some explaining to do.

They'll just ignore it like it never happened. Meanwhile the Democrats will keep bringing up the documents in their condemnation of Bush like they were never proven to be fake.

[Mavdog]

Originally posted by: LRB

They'll just ignore it like it never happened. Meanwhile the Democrats will keep bringing up the documents in their condemnation of Bush like they were never proven to be fake.

they haven't been. This is all speculation, nothing has been "proven".

[Dooby]

This may sound like a stupid thing to look up, but as far I can tell, Times New Roman was not used in typewriters. Times Roman was used in typesetting (publishing). The most prevalent font in typewriters was courier, developed by IBM.

I have to give 60 Minutes the benefit of the doubt. I can't tell you how upset I would be if I find out this is faked.

[LRB]

Nothing may have been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, but it sure looks like the documents are frauds. And I suspect that it won't be long before credible proof will be brought to remove the last shrouds of doubt that they are fake. Still CBS won't off any but the most minor and brief of retractions if at all. The Dems will continue to use this as "evidence" against Bush long after it has been proven false. I mean why shouldn't they, it's very likely that they are the creators of the document.

[madape]

More expert analysis

I would love to give 60 minutes the benefit of the doubt on this one, but they've already ventrured into the realm of questionable ethics by basing an entire segment to a man so clearly behind the Kerry presidential campaign. Objectivity and unbiased reporting is certainly not on CBS's priority list. Did they just not bother to research the material or did they actually conspire to deceive? Neither would surprise me.

What WOULD surpise me is if 60 minutes acted consistently on partisan attacks regardless of whether the attacks came from conservatives attacking Kerry or liberals attacking Bush. Needless to say, I haven't been suprised yet.

[Dooby]

Apparently, one of the biggest deals is the superscript "th" on the 187th. That wasn't really a function at the time of typewriters, but is an automatic function in today's PC's. Supposedly, a wordprocesser that did that would have cost $20,000.00 when they first came out in the '70s. Unclear if it was available then.

[madape]

September 09, 2004, 16:18:22 EDT
Ratherbiased.com

Passions are high inside CBS News as the network is facing yet another outpouring of public discontent, this time over 60 Minutes's boneheaded decision to publicize phony documents "proving" that George W. Bush was AWOL from the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam War.
Many staffers are placing the blame squarely on the shoulders of Dan Rather who they say was the driving force behind a shoddily researched story that ought never to have aired.

Meanwhile, CBS's News publicity flacks have abandoned answering their phones, overwhelmed with calls from angry viewers and inquisitive journalists.

[u2sarajevo]

Originally posted by: Dooby
Apparently, one of the biggest deals is the superscript "th" on the 187th. That wasn't really a function at the time of typewriters, but is an automatic function in today's PC's. Supposedly, a wordprocesser that did that would have cost $20,000.00 when they first came out in the '70s. Unclear if it was available then.

The way I understand it, what cost 20,000.00 was a typewriter that used a proportional font. The superscript "th" was not supported by any typewriters/word processors back then.

[kg_veteran]

I only wish I was going to be home in time to turn on the evening news. I wonder if Dan Rather will address this?

Who am I kidding...

[knowitall]

If these are fake...........then ouch!! If these are not fake...........then ouch!

[madape]

The story is breaking on Fox News right now

[LRB]

Originally posted by: madape
September 09, 2004, 16:18:22 EDT
Ratherbiased.com

Passions are high inside CBS News as the network is facing yet another outpouring of public discontent, this time over 60 Minutes's boneheaded decision to publicize phony documents "proving" that George W. Bush was AWOL from the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam War.
Many staffers are placing the blame squarely on the shoulders of Dan Rather who they say was the driving force behind a shoddily researched story that ought never to have aired.

Meanwhile, CBS's News publicity flacks have abandoned answering their phones, overwhelmed with calls from angry viewers and inquisitive journalists.

LMAO. Can't say CBS doesn't deserve it with their irresponsible journalism. Even if somehow the documents aren't proven to be fakes, it was a huge slipup not to have caught these questions in the vetting process of the documents and have addressed them when presented.

[kg_veteran]

Originally posted by: madape
The story is breaking on Fox News right now

Amazing.

For anybody that thinks that this is just amateur speculation, read the Power Line Bog discussion on this. Update 10 is particularly persuasive, as is the report that ape referenced from INDCJournal. Also, CBS is already backpedaling. From the Power Line Blog, Update 11:

UPDATE 11: CBS is sticking to its story. It's not entirely clear which story, however. Initially, CBS spokeswoman Kelli Edwards said:

As is standard practice at CBS News, each of the documents broadcast on '60 Minutes' was thoroughly investigated by independent experts, and we are convinced of their authenticity.

Later, however, Ms. Edwards sent out an email that appeared to revise the nature of the "authentication" process:

CBS verified the authenticity of the documents by talking to individuals who had seen the documents at the time they were written. These individuals were close associates of Colonel Jerry Killian and confirm that the documents reflect his opinions at the time the documents were written.

So what CBS is now saying is not that the documents are authentic, but that the opinions they express are authentic, based on the hearsay reports of anonymous persons alleged to be close associates of Col. Killian, who recall his views of thirty-two years ago. This is what passes for "authentication" in the mainstream media.

[capitalcity]

this is nothing new from CBS-

Former CBS reporter Bernard Goldberg reveals the leftist manipulations and outright lies of the "mainstream" media in his book BIAS

It was a good read and eye-opening to say the least - I'm ashamed Dan Rather is from Texas.

[kg_veteran]

More experts weigh in on the subject...

Is It a Hoax?
Experts weigh in on the 60 Minutes documents. Says one: "I'm a Kerry supporter myself, but . . . I'm 99% sure that these documents were not produced in the early 1970s."
by Stephen F. Hayes
09/09/2004 7:20:00 PM

link

DOCUMENTS CITED Wednesday by 60 Minutes in a widely-publicized expose of George W. Bush's National Guard Service are very likely forgeries, according to several experts on document authenticity and typography. The documents--four memos from Killian to himself or his files written in 1972 and 1973--appear to indicate that Bush refused or ignored orders to have a physical exam required to continue flying. CBS News anchor Dan Rather reported the segment and sourced the documents this way: "60 Minutes has obtained a number of documents we are told were taken from Col. Killian's personal file," he said. The 60 Minutes story served as the basis for follow-up news reports for dozens of news organizations across the country. The memos were almost immediately questioned in the blog world, with blog Power Line leading the charge.

And according to several forensic document experts contacted by THE WEEKLY STANDARD say the Killian memos appear to be forgeries. Although it is nearly impossible to establish with certainty the authenticity of documents without a careful examination of the originals, several irregularities in the Killian memos suggest that CBS may have been the victim of a hoax.

"These sure look like forgeries," says William Flynn, a forensic document expert widely considered the nation's top analyst of computer-generated documents. Flynn looked at copies of the documents posted on the CBS News website (here, here, here, and here). Flynn says, "I would say it looks very likely that these documents could not have existed" in the early 1970s, when they were allegedly written.

Several other experts agree. "They look mighty suspicious," says a veteran forensic document expert who asked not to be quoted by name. Richard Polt, a Xavier University philosophy professor who operates a website dedicated to typewriters, says that while he is not an expert on typesetting, the documents "look like typical word-processed documents."

There are several reasons these experts are skeptical of the authenticity of the Killian memos. First the typographic spacing is proportional, as is routine with professional typesetting and computer typography, not monospace, as was common in typewriters in the 1970s. (In proportional type, thin letters like "i" and "l" are spaced closer together than thick letters like "W" and "M". In monospace, all the letter widths are the same.)

Second, the font appears to be identical to the Times New Roman font that is the default typeface in Microsoft Word and other modern word processing programs. According to Flynn, the font is not listed in the Haas Atlas--the definitive encyclopedia of typewriter type fonts.

Third, the apostrophes are curlicues of the sort produced by word processors on personal computers, not the straight vertical hashmarks typical of typewriters. Finally, in some references to Bush's unit--the 111thFighter Interceptor Squadron--the "th" is a superscript in a smaller size than the other type. Again, this is typical (and often done automatically) in modern word processing programs. Although several experts allow that such a rendering might have been theoretically possible in the early 1970s, it would have been highly unlikely. Superscripts produced on typewriters--the numbers preceding footnotes in term papers, for example--were almost always in the same size as the regular type.

So can we say with absolute certainty that the documents were forged? Not yet. Xavier University's Polt, in an email, offers two possible scenarios. "Either these are later transcriptions of earlier documents (which may have been handwritten or typed on a typewriter), or they are crude and amazingly foolish forgeries. I'm a Kerry supporter myself, but I won't let that cloud my objective judgment: I'm 99% sure that these documents were not produced in the early 1970s."

Says Flynn: "This looks pretty much like a hoax at this point in time."

CBS, in a statement Thursday afternoon, said it stands by the story. The network claims that its own document expert concluded the memos were authentic. There are several things CBS could do to clear up any confusion:

(1) Provide the name of the expert who authenticated the documents for Sixty Minutes.

(2) Provide the original documents to outside experts--William Flynn, Gerald Reynolds, and Peter Tytell seem to be the consensus top three in the United States--for further analysis.

(3) Provide more information on the source of the documents.

(A spokeswoman for CBS, Kelly Edwards, said she was overwhelmed with phone calls and did not respond to specific requests for comment.)

Stephen F. Hayes is a staff writer at The Weekly Standard.

[dude1394]

1972 Email Casts Doubt on Bush Guard Service

(2004-09-09) -- CBS reporter Dan Rather today released the text of a recently discovered email from then-Lt. George W. Bush's Air National Guard commanding officer which casts more doubt upon the military service of the man who would become the 43rd President of the United States.

The revelation of the email comes just hours after questions were raised about the authenticity of typewritten memos from the same officer, shown yesterday by Mr. Rather on 60 Minutes.

According to the previously unseen email message sent in May 1972 by squadron commander Jerry Killian, Lt. Bush phoned Col. Killian because "his internet connection was on the fritz and he couldn't IM me."

Lt. Bush apparently wanted to talk about "how he can get out of coming to drill from now through November."

According to Col. Killian's email, the young Bush wanted to go to Alabama to work as webmaster for a Republican candidate's website.

Mr. Rather said the authenticity of the 32-year-old email has been confirmed by several Nigerian officials who specialize in electronic funds transfer by email.

Forgot to quote the source scrappleface.com

[Drbio]

Mr. Rather said the authenticity of the 32-year-old email has been confirmed by several Nigerian officials who specialize in electronic funds transfer by email.

genius.

[dude1394]

Good grief, the blogosphere is the ONLY place to find accurate news these days it seems, and it's realer than real-time. The below postings to allahpundit look devastating. Bush's address is wrong, he hadn't lived there for two years. General Staudt retired a year before the memo was written. Tell me again why I should bother reading a newspaper or watching a tv show? Last comment should make for a fun day tommorrow as well. Betcha' kerry wasn't counting on a scandal with his buds in the media.

[UPDATE: Readers George Purcell and Joel Fedorko are trying to cross-check Bush's 1972 address. Joel points to a set of military records obtained by USA Today. According to the memo on page 6, Bush had already left the residence at 5000 Longmont Street by January 12, 1971, more than a full year before the May 4, 1972 memo was allegedly written. Other records in the set do provide the Longmont Street for Bush but all are dated either 1968 or 1969. Meanwhile, George points to a list of Bush's former residences on this (anti-Bush) website. Here's what they've got for 1967 to 1972:

1967 -Houston TX 77027 [5525 Briar Dr] Studt *Polk
1968 -Houston TX 77027 [5000 Longmont Apt 8] *Military
1970 -Houston TX [5320 Beverly Hill St Apt 29A ] *Polk
1971 -Houston TX [5320 Beverly Hill St Apt 29A] *Polk
1972 -Houston TX [2910 Westheimer Rd Apt 4] *Polk
1972 -Houston TX [2910 Westheimer Rd Apt 4] *Payroll

According to the website, then, Bush left the 5000 Longmont Street address two years earlier than the memo would have us believe. Can anyone else shed any light on this? Is it possible that the TANG would have had an old address on record for Bush when Killian allegedly wrote the 1972 memo? Or did a forger just fuck up the address? The plot thickens.

UPDATE: In case you're doubting my reasoning in the previous update, check out Spoons's latest. In particular, the information listed at the very end about General Staudt, who seems to have retired a year before the memo referencing in August 1973 was written.

UPDATE: Via Roger, Killian's own son is questioning the authenticity of one of the memos now.

UPDATE: Reader "rod", who works at a New York newspaper, comments:

they are hacking crap out of the nat'l Section as i write and are putting in a by-lined piece about this. Im hearing other papers are too.

[dude1394]

These are forgeries. This guy is pretty persuasive. All from powerline.com...

UPDATE 10: Reader Jon-Erik Prichard adds what strikes me as an especially persuasive point:

[A]nother aspect of the type on [the August 18, 1973 memo] suggests, perhaps proves, forgery.

1. The type in the document is KERNED. Kerning is the typsetter's art of spacing various letters in such a manner that they are 'grouped' for better readability. Word processors do this automatically. NO TYPEWRITER CAN PHYSICALLY DO THIS.

To explain: the letter 'O' is curved on the outside. A letter such as 'T' has indented space under its cross bar. On a typewriter if one types an 'O' next to a 'T' then both letters remain separated by their physical space. When you type the same letters on a computer next to each other the are automatically 'kerned' or 'grouped' so that their individual spaces actually overlap. e. g., TO. As one can readily see the curvature of the 'O' nestles neatly under the cross bar of the 'T'. Two good kerning examples in the alleged memo are the word 'my' in the second line where 'm' and 'y' are neatly kerned and also the word 'not' in the fourth line where the 'o' and 't' overlap empty space. A typewriter doesn't 'know' what particular letter is next to another and can't make those types of aesthetic adjustments.

2. The kerning and proportional spacing in each of the lines of type track EXACTLY with 12 point Times Roman font on a six inch margin (left justified). Inother words, the sentences break just as they would on a computer and not as they would on a typewriter. Since the type on the memo is both proportionally spaced and kerned the lines of type break at certain instances (i.e., the last word in each line of the first paragraph are - 1. running, 2. regarding, 3. rating, 4. is, 5. either). If the memo was created on a typewriter the line breaks would be at different words (e. g., the word 'running' is at the absolute outside edge of the sentence and would probably not be on the first
line).

3. The sentences have a wide variance in their AMOUNT of kerning and proportional spacing. Notice how the first line of the first paragraph seems squished together and little hard to read but the last line of the first paragraph has wider more open spacing. Even the characters themselves are squished in the first line (as a computer does automatically) and more spread out on the last line where there is more room.

There's no way a typewriter could 'set' the type in this memo and even a good typesetter using a Linotype machine of the era would have to spend hours getting this effect.

[Drbio]

wow.

[LRB]

LMAO even scandals against Bush come back to bite Kerry in the ass.

[dude1394]

Here is an image I haven't seen. It lines up the two perfectly. These guys are fake as kerry's iraq policy.

[kg_veteran]

Now the MSM picks up the story. From ABC...

False Documentation?
Questions Arise About Authenticity of Newly Found Memos on Bush's Guard Service
link

Sept. 9, 2004 — Questions are being raised about the authenticity of newly discovered documents relating to George W. Bush's service in the National Guard during the Vietnam War.

Marjorie Connell — widow of the late Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, the reported author of memos suggesting that Bush did not meet the standards for the Texas Air National Guard — questioned whether the documents were real.

"The wording in these documents is very suspect to me," she told ABC News Radio in an exclusive phone interview from her Texas home. She added that she "just can't believe these are his words."

First reported by CBS's 60 Minutes, the memos allegedly were found in Killian's personal files. But his family members say they doubt he ever made such documents, let alone kept them.

Connell said Killian did not type, and though he did take notes, they were usually on scraps of paper. "He was a person who did not take copious notes," she said. "He carried everything in his mind."

Killian's son, Gary Killian, who served in the Guard with his father, also told ABC News Radio that he doubts his father wrote the documents. "It was not the nature of my father to keep private files like this, nor would it have been in his own interest to do so," he said.

"We don't know where the documents come from," he said, adding, "They didn't come from any family member."

Connell said her late husband would be "turning over in his grave to know that a document such as this would be used against a fellow guardsman," and she is "sick" and "angry" that his name is "being battled back and forth on television."

Her late husband was a fan of the young Bush, said Connell, who remarried after her husband died in 1984. "I know for a fact that this young man … was an excellent aviator, an excellent person to be in the Guard, and he was very happy to have him become a member of the 111th."

Experts Question Veracity

Questions are also being raised about the memos by document experts, who say they appear to have been written on a computer, not a typewriter.

The memos are dated 1972 and 1973, when computers with word-processing software were not available.

More than half a dozen document experts contacted by ABC News said they had doubts about the memos' authenticity.

"These documents do not appear to have been the result of technology that was available in 1972 and 1973," said Bill Flynn, one of country's top authorities on document authentication. "The cumulative evidence that's available … indicates that these documents were produced on a computer, not a typewriter:"

Among the points Flynn and other experts noted:

1. 1. The memos were written using a proportional typeface, where letters take up variable space according to their size, rather than fixed-pitch typeface used on typewriters, where each letter is allotted the same space. Proportional typefaces are available only on computers or on very high-end typewriters that were unlikely to be used by the National Guard.
   
   2. The memos include superscript, i.e. the "th" in "187th" appears above the line in a smaller font. Superscript was not available on typewriters.
   
   3. The memos included "curly" apostrophes rather than straight apostrophes found on typewriters.
   
   4. The font used in the memos is Times Roman, which was in use for printing but not in typewriters. The Haas Atlas — the bible of fonts — does not list Times Roman as an available font for typewriters.
   
   5. The vertical spacing used in the memos, measured at 13 points, was not available in typewriters, and only became possible with the advent of computers.

The White House is declining to comment on the veracity of the documents. Many Democrats are worried that if they are found to be forgeries, it will be a setback for Sen. John Kerry's campaign to defeat Bush in November.

[kg_veteran]

And from MSNBC/Washington Post...

washingtonpost.com Highlights

Authenticity of Bush memos questioned
Typographical, formatting questions emerge
By Michael Dobbs and Mike Allen
link

Updated: 11:32 p.m. ET Sept. 9, 2004
Documents unearthed by CBS News that raise doubts about whether President Bush fulfilled his obligations to the Texas Air National Guard include several features suggesting that they were generated by a computer or word processor rather than a Vietnam War-era typewriter, experts said yesterday.

Experts consulted by a range of news organizations pointed typographical and formatting questions about four documents as they considered the possibility that they were forged. The widow of the National Guard officer whose signature is on the bottom of the documents also disputed their authenticity.

The documents, which were aired Wednesday night on "60 Minutes II," bear dates from 1972 and 1973 and include an order for Bush to report for his annual physical exam and a discussion of how he could get out of "coming to drill."

The dispute over the documents' authenticity came as Democrats stepped up their criticism of Bush's service with the National Guard between 1968 and 1974. The Democratic National Committee sought to fuel the controversy yesterday by holding a news conference at which Sen. Tom Harkin (Iowa) pointed to the documents as a fresh indictment of Bush's credibility.

CBS News released a statement yesterday standing by its reporting, saying that each of the documents "was thoroughly vetted by independent experts and we are convinced of their authenticity." The statement added that CBS reporters had verified the documents by talking to unidentified individuals who saw them "at the time they were written."

CBS spokeswoman Kelli Edwards declined to respond to questions raised by experts who examined copies of the papers at the request of The Washington Post, or to provide the names of the experts CBS consulted. Experts interviewed by The Post pointed to a series of telltale signs suggesting that the documents were generated by a computer or word processor rather than the typewriters in widespread use by Bush's National Guard unit.

A senior CBS official, who asked not to be named because CBS managers did not want to go beyond their official statement, named one of the network's sources as retired Maj. Gen. Bobby W. Hodges, the immediate superior of the documents' alleged author, Lt. Col. Jerry B. Killian. He said that a CBS reporter read the documents to Hodges over the phone, and that Hodges replied that "these are the things that Killian had expressed to me at the time."

'Trump card'

"These documents represent what Killian not only was putting in memoranda, but was telling other people," the CBS News official said. "Journalistically, we've gone several extra miles."

The official said the network regarded Hodges's comments as "the trump card" on the question of authenticity, as he is a Republican who acknowledged that he did not want to hurt Bush. Hodges, who declined to grant an on-camera interview to CBS, did not respond to messages left on his home answering machine in Texas.

In a telephone interview from her Texas home, Killian's widow, Marjorie Connell, described the records as "a farce," saying she was with her husband until the day he died in 1984 and he did not "keep files." She said her husband considered Bush "an excellent pilot."

"I don't think there were any documents. He was not a paper person," she said, adding that she was "livid" at CBS. A CBS reporter contacted her briefly before Wednesday night's broadcasts, she said, but did not ask her to authenticate the records.

If demonstrated to be authentic, the documents would contradict several longstanding claims by the White House about an episode in Bush's National Guard service in 1972, when he abruptly gave up flying and moved from Texas to Alabama to take part in a political campaign. The CBS documents purport to show that Killian, who was Bush's squadron commander, was unhappy with Bush for his performance toward meeting his National Guard commitments and resisted pressure from his superiors to "sugarcoat" the record.

After their initial airing on the "CBS Evening News" and "60 Minutes II" programs Wednesday night, the documents were picked up by other news organizations, including The Post. A front-page story in The Post yesterday noted that CBS declined to provide details about the source of the documents, the authenticity of which could not be independently confirmed.

On Wednesday evening, the White House e-mailed reporters copies of the documents, as supplied by CBS, as well as the transcript of a CBS interview with White House communications director Dan Bartlett rebutting allegations that Bush had shirked his military duties. While Bartlett described the emergence of the documents as "dirty politics," he did not dispute their authenticity.

After doubts about the documents began circulating on the Internet yesterday morning, The Post contacted several independent experts who said they appeared to have been generated by a word processor. An examination of the documents by The Post shows that they are formatted differently from other Texas Air National Guard documents whose authenticity is not questioned.

Proportional spacing

William Flynn, a forensic document specialist with 35 years of experience in police crime labs and private practice, said the CBS documents raise suspicions because of their use of proportional spacing techniques. Documents generated by the kind of typewriters that were widely used in 1972 space letters evenly across the page, so that an "i" uses as much space as an "m." In the CBS documents, by contrast, each letter uses a different amount of space.

While IBM had introduced an electric typewriter that used proportional spacing by the early 1970s, it was not widely used in government. In addition, Flynn said, the CBS documents appear to use proportional spacing both across and down the page, a relatively recent innovation. Other anomalies in the documents include the use of the superscripted letters "th" in phrases such as "111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron," Bush's unit.

"It would be nearly impossible for all this technology to have existed at that time," said Flynn, who runs a document authentication company in Phoenix.

Other experts largely concurred. Phil Bouffard, a forensic document examiner from Cleveland, said the font used in the CBS documents appeared to be Times Roman, which is widely used by word-processing programs but was not common on typewriters.

CBS officials insisted that the network had done due diligence in checking out the authenticity of the documents with independent experts over six weeks. The senior CBS official said the network had talked to four typewriting and handwriting experts "who put our concerns to rest" and confirmed the authenticity of Killian's signature.

The doubts about the documents left the White House and the Bush campaign in a state of suspended animation, with Bush aides encouraging doubts about the documents but conceding that the possibility that they were forged seemed too good to be true. White House spokeswoman Claire Buchan said that officials there had not attempted to authenticate the documents but simply released copies "provided to us by CBS in the interests of openness."

The Bush administration's strategy yesterday was to let news organizations raise doubts and conduct forensic examinations, without taking an official position on whether the documents were genuine.

"It's clear in reviewing the documents that they do nothing to change the fact that the president served honorably, and was proud of his service in the Air National Guard," Bush campaign spokesman Steve Schmidt said.

Staff writer Howard Kurtz and researcher Lucy Shackelford contributed to this report.

© 2004 The Washington Post Company

****

No love for the blogosphere, who brought this story to light, but the truth will come out nonetheless...

[FishForLunch]

The shit is just starting to hit the fan

-----------------------------------------------

Ben Barnes' 'Daughter': My Dad Lied About Bush

A woman purporting to be Amy Barnes, daughter of former Texas Lieutenant Gov. Ben Barnes, said Thursday that her father had fabricated claims that he used his influence to get President Bush into the Texas Air National Guard 36 years ago.

In a phone call to WBAP's Mark Davis radio show in Dallas, Texas, Ms. Barnes told guest host Monica Crowley that her father was an "opportunist" who had lied about Bush's Guard record during a "60 Minutes II" broadcast Tuesday night.

BARNES: I love my father very much but he's doing this for purely political reasons. He is a big Kerry fundraiser and he is writing a book also. And [the Bush story] is what he's leading the book off with . . . He denied this to me in 2000 that he did get Bush out [of Vietnam service]. Now he's saying he did.
CROWLEY: Did he tell you, Amy - and I'm glad I have you on the line with me - did your father tell you that he was prepared to do this on behalf of John Kerry - go after President Bush like this?

BARNES: He told me he was going to do it. In fact I talked to him a couple of months ago. He told me he was writing the book. He told me that he was going to be talking about this. And he knows that I - we have very diverse political opinions. He knows my opinions and we get into this debate every time I see him. But, you know, he said that he was going to be talking about it.

CROWLEY: Now you're saying, Amy, that he has had two separate stories on President Bush's Guard duty during the Vietnam era?

BARNES: Yes, yes. This came out in 2000 and I asked him then, at the time, if he [helped get Bush into the Guard]. He said, "No, absolutely not. I did not do that."

CROWLEY: So, I hate to put you in this position but I will ask you, do you think your father, Ben Barnes - who was on "60 Minutes II" with Dan Rather last night - do you believe that he lied on the air to the American people last night about President Bush?

BARNES; Yes, I do. I absolutely do. And I think he's doing he's doing it for purely political, opportunistic reasons - trying to get John Kerry elected and trying to make Bush look like the bad person. . . . Like I said, he's going to be trying to promote his book that he's got coming out. [End of Excerpt]

Crowley's colleague, WABC Radio's Mark Levin, aired a tape of the exchange in New York after confirming that Barnes' does indeed have a daughter named Amy.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

DALLAS Sept. 9, 2004 — The authenticity of newly unearthed memos stating that George W. Bush failed to meet standards of the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam War was questioned Thursday by the son of the late officer who reportedly wrote the memos.
"I am upset because I think it is a mixture of truth and fiction here," said Gary Killian, son of Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, who died in 1984.

Gary Killian, who served in the Guard with his father and retired as a captain in 1991, said one of the memos, signed by his father, appeared legitimate. But he doubted his father would have written another, unsigned memo which said there was pressure to "sugar coat" Bush's performance review.

"It just wouldn't happen," he said. "The only thing that can happen when you keep secret files like that are bad things. ... No officer in his right mind would write a memo like that."

News reports have said the memos, first obtained by CBS's "60 Minutes II," were found in Jerry Killian's personal records. Gary Killian said his father wasn't in the habit of bringing his work home with him, and that the documents didn't come from the family.

CBS stood by its reporting. "As a standard practice at CBS, each of the documents broadcast on "60 Minutes" was thoroughly investigated by independent experts and we are convinced of their authenticity," CBS News said in a statement.

The White House distributed the four memos from 1972 and 1973 after obtaining them from CBS News. The White House did not question their accuracy

-------------------------------------------------

[LRB]

Unlike CBS I'm not inclined to believe a story as 100% truth just because it supports my political point of view, so I'd hold off on running the Barnes' daughter coming out until it can be vetted sufficiently to verify that it was his daughter and not just some crank posing as his daughter.

And to be honest, CBS already looks bad enough as it is with their poor and irresponsible journalism as it is.

[FishForLunch]

Marjorie Connell — widow of the late Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, the reported author of memos suggesting that Bush did not meet the standards for the Texas Air National Guard — questions whether the documents are real on tonight's NIGHTLINE, sources tell DRUDGE.

Transcript:

I WAS ANGRY, BECAUSE HERE THEY ARE GOING BACK AND PULLING RECORDS OF A MAN WHO IS DECEASED TWENTY YEARS, WHO IS NOT HERE TO EXPLAIN WHAT ANY OF THESE DOCUMENTS SAID OR SUPPOSED TO HAVE SAID, AND I JUST FOUND IT APPALLING. I WAS SICK THAT HERE WITHOUT WARNING HIS PICTURES ARE UP THERE, HIS NAME IS BEING BATTLED BACK AND FORTH AND I, LIVID I GUESS IS A BETTER WORD FOR IT."

"I THINK THERE WAS SO MUCH UNTRUTHS BEING SAID THAT THAT FRUSTRATED ME AND THAT I KNEW THAT IF JERRY WERE ALIVE TODAY THAT HE WOULD JUST, NUMBER ONE HE WOULD BE TURNING OVER IN HIS GRAVE TO KNOW THAT A DOCUMENT SUCH AS THIS WOULD BE USED AGAINST A FELLOW GUARDSMAN."

"THAT IS WHAT AGGRAVATED ME SO MUCH, WAS THAT HE CAN NOT BE HERE TO SAY AND YET THEY CAN DRAG HIS NAME ONTO TELEVISION, MAKING BAD ACCUSATIONS ABOUT OUR PRESIDENT AND A MAN THAT HE RESPECTED AND I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT HE THOUGHT THIS YOUNG MAN AS A SECOND LIEUTENANT OR FIRST LIEUTENANT WAS AN EXCELLENT AVIATOR, AN EXCELLENT PERSON TO BE IN THE GUARD AND WAS VERY HAPPY TO HAVE HIM BECOME A MEMBER OF THE 111TH F-I-S."

"NUMBER ONE, HE WOULD NOT HAVE TYPED BECAUSE HE DID NOT TYPE. NUMBER TWO, THE WORDING IN THESE DOCUMENTS IS VERY SUSPECT TO ME. I JUST DON'T BELIEVE THAT, IT LOOKS LIKE SOME THINGS MAY HAVE BEEN PICKED UP OUT OF A DOCUMENT AND THEN OTHER THINGS JUST MADE FICTITIOUSLY TO FILL IN THINGS, TO MAKE THEM FLOW. I JUST CAN'T BELIEVE THAT THIS IS HIS WORDS, MY LATE HUSBAND'S WORDS."

"NOT A TYPIST, DEFINITELY NOT A TYPIST. WE HAD NO COMPUTERS AT HOME BUT HE WASN'T A TYPIST, AND WHAT IS REMARKABLE TO ME IS THAT HE WAS A PERSON WHO DID NOT TAKE OR MAKE COPIOUS NOTES. HE CARRIED EVERYTHING IN HIS MIND AND HE DIDN'T HAVE TIME TO MAKE NOTES."

"I AM STILL PRESENTLY LOOKING FOR OTHER DOCUMENTS. I HAVE FOUND SOME THAT SAY THE 147TH ON THEM AND THEY GO BACK TO 1970. I CAN NOT FIND ANY AT THIS MOMENT THAT HAVE ANY 1972 INDICATIONS ON THEM OTHER THAN A, AND I TOLD HER THAT, A FLIGHT SCHEDULE THAT HE HAD JUST SIGNED HIS NAME TO."

"UNFORTUNATELY WHEN WE MOVED I PUT THINGS IN DIFFERENT LOCATIONS AND I JUST DON'T KNOW WHERE EVERYTHING IS AT THIS MOMENT AND I WAS SEARCHING FOR THEM AND I STILL HAVE NOT FOUND ANY OTHER DOCUMENTS. I DO HAVE ALL OF HIS FLIGHT RECORDS THOUGH AND THEY ARE IN MY HANDS."

"HE DISCUSSED WITH ME HOW PROUD HE WAS TO BE ABLE TO GO AND PIN THE WINGS ON YOUNG GEORGE AND TO MEET THEN MR. BUSH, I'VE FORGOTTEN IF HE WAS WITH THE CIA OR WHAT OFFICE HE HELD AT THAT TIME AND BARBARA BUSH."

"HE LEFT THE 147TH, FLEW TO WHEREVER GEORGE GOT HIS WINGS AND JERRY PINNED THEM ON HIM AND HE WAS, CAME HOME JUST, HE TOLD ME ABOUT THAT AND HOW PROUD HE WAS TO HAVE MET THE FAMILY."

"HE WOULD JUST WRITE LITTLE NOTES ON THE BACK OF ANYTHING. UNFORTUNATELY OR FORTUNATELY AS THE CASE MAY BE, IF HE NEEDED TO JOT SOMETHING DOWN HE WOULD JOT IT ON ANY PAPER THAT HE COULD FIND, ON A CARD, LIKE A CALLING CARD THAT YOU WOULD HAVE, OR JUST LITTLE BITS OF PAPER. HE ALWAYS KNEW WHERE EVERYTHING WAS, AND IF HE NEEDED TO PULL IT OUT OF HIS WALLET ON A LITTLE NOTE OR SOMETHING, BUT HE JUST DIDN'T TAKE MANY NOTES."

[LRB]

WTG Kerry just piss some more servicemen's family off like the 2 million+ families of Vietnam Veterans you've already pissed off by calling their family members war criminals.