Dallas-Denver (Move that brings the Mavs a Championship?) - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

akaarod03 · 07-25-2006, 01:50 PM

Dallas trades: Jerry Stackhouse and Erick Dampier

Denver trades: Marcus Camby and Kenyon Martin

Our roster:

Nowitzki Martin
Howard George
Camby Diop
Terry Buckner
Harris Johnson

Croshere, Ager, Mbenga, P-Pod, and Pops rounding out the bench

Downside...we take on two long term contracts...but I think we gain in versatility. From Denver's perspective...get a starting SG in Stack...if it doesn't work out...oh well...he comes off the books at the end of the season. And Dampier replaces Camby as starting C.

Your thoughts? Is that too much overhaul for a team that was two wins away from an NBA championship?

some-dude · 07-25-2006, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akaarod03

Dallas trades: Jerry Stackhouse and Erick Dampier

Denver trades: Marcus Camby and Kenyon Martin

Our roster:

Nowitzki Martin
Howard George
Camby Diop
Terry Buckner
Harris Johnson

Croshere, Ager, Mbenga, P-Pod, and Pops rounding out the bench

Downside...we take on two long term contracts...but I think we gain in versatility. From Denver's perspective...get a starting SG in Stack...if it doesn't work out...oh well...he comes off the books at the end of the season. And Dampier replaces Camby as starting C.

Your thoughts? Is that too much overhaul for a team that was two wins away from an NBA championship?

Denver easily passes......

nashtymavsfan13 · 07-25-2006, 02:34 PM

I don't think Denver will do this. They want Stack and KVH for Martin, so I don't think Damp for Camby will get it done.

Drbio · 07-25-2006, 02:52 PM

I hate when homers make trade proposals. I don't hate that you are a Mavs homer though. I love fanatic fans, but there is no way that Denver would be able to say no because they would be laughing so hard they couldn't speak.

seelenjaeger · 07-25-2006, 03:32 PM

Hehehe, great call Doc .. but there´s actually a slim chance Denver would do it for money resons (saving money both this year and long term, unloading Kenyon and getting back something called "instant playable"). If the trade still works (I doubt it) if you add Harris and Patterson it´s getting into the no-brainer area for Denver.

Tokey41 · 07-25-2006, 04:37 PM

Stack, KVH, and Dampier seems fair when you look at trading Camby and Martin for them. They NEED to move Martin (for a player they want and a starting sg) and we are swapping two very decent centers.

Dirkenstien · 07-25-2006, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tokey41

Stack, KVH, and Dampier seems fair when you look at trading Camby and Martin for them. They NEED to move Martin (for a player they want and a starting sg) and we are swapping two very decent centers.

True. This does seem like a fair trade considering Denver is no where near title contention for the money they're forking out to these two guys.

This appears as though it would be a good trade on paper.

Our lineup would look like this:

Camby/ Diop/ Benga
Dirk/ Martin/ Croshere
Howard/ George
Terry/ Buckner/ Ager
Harris/ Johnson

Looks good, only question is long-term commitment vs. window of opportunity for a championship. With the youth our team already has, I think this would be a good trade for both teams.

By the way, Denver's starting lineup would probably look something like this:

Dampier
Keith Van Horn
Carmelo
Stackhouse
Andre Miller

that's not too shabby

akaarod03 · 07-25-2006, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

True. This does seem like a fair trade considering Denver is no where near title contention for the money they're forking out to these two guys.

This appears as though it would be a good trade on paper.

Our lineup would look like this:

Camby/ Diop/ Benga
Dirk/ Martin/ Croshere
Howard/ George
Terry/ Buckner/ Ager
Harris/ Johnson

Looks good, only question is long-term commitment vs. window of opportunity for a championship. With the youth our team already has, I think this would be a good trade for both teams.

By the way, Denver's starting lineup would probably look something like this:

Dampier
Keith Van Horn
Carmelo
Stackhouse
Andre Miller

that's not too shabby

Hey Dirkenstien...wouldn't 6 years 60 million Nene start at PF?

Dirkenstien · 07-25-2006, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akaarod03

Hey Dirkenstien...wouldn't 6 years 60 million Nene start at PF?

Ah, can't believe I forgot about him...good eye. That makes their lineup appear even better, no?

Tokey41 · 07-25-2006, 05:19 PM

Nene would start assuming the guy doesnt blow out his knee in the first three minutes of the season. Denver would be a great team with those additions no doubt, and add the fact they play in that awful division I think they would (probably still will anyway) get a lot of W's.

Edit: I hate Martin and his contract but I think its worth it for what we are giving up.

TomThaMavsFan · 07-25-2006, 10:40 PM

does that trade work under the salary cap? i have no clue why denver would do this deal, but if they pull it, i'm all for it. Only reason i can see Denver doing this is to take Martin's huge contract off their books, and trade injury prone camby and get a Center who's not as injury prone

Dirkenstien · 07-25-2006, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomThaMavsFan

does that trade work under the salary cap? i have no clue why denver would do this deal, but if they pull it, i'm all for it. Only reason i can see Denver doing this is to take Martin's huge contract off their books, and trade injury prone camby and get a Center who's not as injury prone

Yes it does work under the salary cap assuming that KVH would accept a contract offer in the range of 2.4-3.0 mil a season; which seems like a pretty fair contract.

Denver would be interested in this deal for the sole purpose of getting some serious cap relief and a couple of guys who can step right into the lineup. Right now one of their main concerns is trading Martin and his contract, but the only way they are going to acheive that (except for doing a Steve Francis deal) is if they package someone like Camby along in the deal. Essentially, they still get a quality center back in return so all they're giving up is a little talent at the 5 and a massive contract that doesn't suit their team's direction.

edit: plus, as mentioned before, Stackhouse's contract comes off the books at year's end and this would also allow Denver to acquire KVH whom they seem to covet without having to dip into their MLE.

rakesh.s · 07-25-2006, 11:38 PM

I'd rather have Dampier over Camby.

Camby sits out games with ruptured hair follicles and is a guarantee to miss at least 20 games a season.

No thanks..He's brilliant when he plays, which isn't very often.

nashtymavsfan13 · 07-26-2006, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rakesh.s

I'd rather have Dampier over Camby.

Camby sits out games with ruptured hair follicles and is a guarantee to miss at least 20 games a season.

No thanks..He's brilliant when he plays, which isn't very often.

Maybe it would help him stay more healthy if he played less minutes, because Diop would take some of them.

seelenjaeger · 07-26-2006, 08:35 AM

Actually when we take both Martin AND Camby that might mean alot of Dirk - Kenyon both on the floor minutes, so we most likely would survive some games without Camby.

Dirkenstien · 07-26-2006, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seelenjaeger

Actually when we take both Martin AND Camby that might mean alot of Dirk - Kenyon both on the floor minutes, so we most likely would survive some games without Camby.

I don't mind a "little" of Martin-Dirk on the floor but I hate the idea "a lot" of it.

birdsanctuary · 08-02-2006, 11:03 AM

I'm starting to warm up to Kenyon Martin, Finals experience, strong low post game. I really think Avery could revitalize his game. The only issue I think would be Stackhouse; Avery loves him, we already know he let's Stack's kids visit his house and eat all his food. I really think Martin gives the Mavs the piece Dirk was quoted as saying the Mavs needed.

Nowitzki: We need somebody from the bench who can play on the big position as a 4. We need another shooter who can help us from the outside. Like in a series against Miami who clogged the middle very good. Josh Howard and Jerry Stackhouse can shoot from the distance, but aren’t consistent enough. They are pretty much streaky shooters. We need one more player who is capable of shooting the lights out from the outside.

I think Deavan George and Buckner fit the "consistent shooter with light's out capabilities." I just don't think Croshere fits the "big position as a 4." Is Dirk saying they need a 4 who can play Center? If so I think that means Camby...

DevinHarriswillstart · 08-03-2006, 01:16 PM

[QUOTE=birdsanctuary]I'm starting to warm up to Kenyon Martin, Finals experience, strong low post game.QUOTE]

Strong low post game? What are you smokin? The guy's offensive game consists of dunking and mid-range jumpers. I'm actually drifting further and further away from trying to get him. Hell, Chroshere put up numbers last year that weren't much worse then Martin. Different player, I know, but really, is Martin even that good? He just doesn't seem to have really That much talent or potential. The best I think you'll get out of him at his peak is 15/7....which doesn't warrant that contract, since he won't be getting those type of minutes to warrant that peak. The contract is the deal breaker. Cuban won't swallow it. Doesn't make really any sense to anyway.

GO DJ · 08-02-2006, 12:01 PM

Denver wouldnt even do Stack and Damp for Camby. Camby is top 5 centers in the league.

Dirkenstien · 08-02-2006, 03:33 PM

Here is a trade that would work for Denver and Dallas, but to get Camby we would have to give something up.

Dallas Gives:
-Keith Van Horn -sign and trade for approximately $4 million
-Jerry Stackhouse
-Desegna Diop

Denver Gives:
Marcus Camby
Ruben Patterson

The salaries would match up if KVH agreed to a S&T starting at $4million (fair value)
Denver does this because:
1) This would automatically give them the shooters they are looking for in Stackhouse and KVH
2) They would get a quality up and coming center back in return for Camby. Yeah, Ferrari's are cool, but you can't haul dirt with them. Diop is the type of center they need..reliable, dependable, and hard working.
3) They get an expiring contract back in return with Stackhouse
4) They finally get a true SG in Stackhouse
5) This would allow them to use the remainder of their MLE to sign Evans, allowing them to net both KVH and Evans. This would also free them up to trade Martin if they wanted..possibly Francis would sart looking decent.

The Mavericks would do this because:
1) We need a quality back-up for Dirk. Croshere is nice, but we need an impact player in the game when he is out.
2)The Mavs get another SF in Patterson who has an expiring contract at the end of this season worth about $8 million. This would allow us to take care of business in FA next offseason, i.e., extend Dirk's contract, resign Howard, etc. In the meantime we get another tough nosed defender with brute strenght and a nack for playing around the basket.
3)Benga is ready to log some heavy minutes. Despite loving Diop's improvement and contributions to this team, he is expendable.

Edit: -->

Our lineup would look like this:
Camby/ Damp/ Benga
Dirk/ Croshere/ *Camby
Howard/ George/ Patterson
Terry/ Buckner/ *Patterson
Harris/ Johnson

There is so much you can do with that roster defensively. I like it a lot.

Denver would look like this:
Nene/ Diop
Martin/ KVH/ Evans
Carmelo/ Najera
Stackhouse/ J.R. Smith
Miller/ Boykins

or, if they then proceeded t trade Martin to the Knicks for Francis they would look something like this:
Nene/ Diop
KVH/ Evans/ Najera
Carmelo/ Stackhouse
Francis/ J.R. Smith
Miller/ Boykins

I like that lineup for them, and they have plenty of spark coming of of the bench

fluid.forty.one · 08-03-2006, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

Here is a trade that would work for Denver and Dallas, but to get Camby we would have to give something up.

Dallas Gives:
-Keith Van Horn -sign and trade for approximately $4 million
-Jerry Stackhouse
-Desegna Diop

Denver Gives:
Marcus Camby
Ruben Patterson

We DO NOT want ruben patterson.

birdsanctuary · 08-02-2006, 06:04 PM

Those are pretty good trades for Denver, I too like the line-ups you suggest. Still, Diop seems to me to be a healthier younger far less experienced version of Camby.

On a side note:
Is there anyone of value we could acquire for Pavel?

Five-ofan · 08-03-2006, 02:03 PM

Where do i sign for dirkensteins trade? You give up KVh(nothing since we arent gonna resign him anyway), Stack(we all have differing opinions on him but he is at best average) and Desagana Diop(a very good backup center) for a top 5 center in the game and ruben patterson? I would try to dump patterson as i dont like him at all but camby for those 3 is a HUGE ripoff.

One little problem, denver would never dream of doing it.

Dirkenstien · 08-03-2006, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

One little problem, denver would never dream of doing it.

So you believe Denver wouldn't even consider doing the deal despite all the listed advantages?

Five-ofan · 08-03-2006, 04:53 PM

No i dont because i think even if you make the extreme leap to say that the package is more valuable to them than camby is(it isnt) they could get a better package than that and for the last time will people quit saying stack is a shooter. He cant shoot worth a crap.

Dirkenstien · 08-04-2006, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

No i dont because i think even if you make the extreme leap to say that the package is more valuable to them than camby is(it isnt) they could get a better package than that and for the last time will people quit saying stack is a shooter. He cant shoot worth a crap.

Instead of just assuming the package isn't as valuable to them as Camby, how about listing some reasons as to why you feel that way. That would probably make for a more compelling argument from you while adding a little more interest to the conversation. The same could be said for your belief that there may be a better trade elsewhere. Please don't be shy about listing them out or at least presenting one idea.

Also, Stackhouse may not be Ray Allen, but he is a respectable shooter. Nonetheless, he is definitely an upgrade at shooting from Patterson and he is a true SG.

Five-ofan · 08-04-2006, 03:36 PM

He is a 28% 3pt shooter, no he isnt respectable. Yes he is better than patterson but thats not saying a whole heck of alot. Why is camby more valuable? Because he is a top 5 center and probably the best defensive center in the nba. I know he gets injured but when he plays he is EASILY better than the package we are offering. As for other packages, i dont try to come up with trades for other teams. Im just telling you that the Denver nuggets could get more than a good defensive center, a bad shooting guard, and a washed up pf for a top 5 center in the nba. If you dont agree with that cool but i just cant see any possible way that deal goes down. Camby averaged 13pts 12 boards 3 blocks and 1.4 steals last year while chipping in 2 assists.

dalmations202 · 08-04-2006, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-OH

Camby averaged 13pts 12 boards 3 blocks and 1.4 steals last year while chipping in 2 assists.

Just to mess with you.................... because it is fun.......

That is only marginally better than Bradley in 96-97 when it avg 13.2 pts, 8.4 boards, 3.4 blocks and .55 steals a game.

And he was a top 5 center?

Man was Bradley underrated as a Maverick

To think this Bradley CLONE (statistics wise) is worth more than twice the money and even more...................

Five-ofan · 08-04-2006, 04:00 PM

Look at my avatar,

Bradley wasnt ever quite a top 5 center but he was a whole lot better than people think plus centers have continued to get worse since then. Oh yeah and i wouldnt call 4 more boards and 1 more steal a clone. That said, If Hakeem, Shaq, Drob, Ewing and I dont know who else but im sure there was another quality center in the nba at that time were all in the nba now and playing like they were then, Camby wouldnt be a top 5 center either.

kappasigma · 08-04-2006, 04:11 PM

what about a lebron for pavel trade?

Five-ofan · 08-04-2006, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kappasigma

what about a lebron for pavel trade?

Too obvious, good try though.

Tokey41 · 08-06-2006, 02:25 PM

Denver is loaded with talent at the frontcourt, Camby would be expendable to gain a player the want and a exp. contract as well as a young replacement. Move Nene to the C with Diop backing him up and you still have Martin and Melo taking care of business at the F's

MavsX · 08-24-2006, 08:25 AM

Martin is injury prone, just like my grandma!

old school · 09-07-2006, 09:29 AM

I guess Denver did want Jerry. Here is a link back from Aug 10. old news I guess.
"They asked for Jerry Stackhouse and supposedly got a counter-offer of Erick Dampier."

http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_18375.shtml

clifford08ma · 09-07-2006, 10:14 AM

denver already have JR smith.......i think thyre not gonna do it... and dallas wont..

with stack ang melo a one man show... they want the ball always on their hand....

could k-mart accept the role being a bench??? i think not
he also have a slut contract, and avery will gonna mess on him!!

camby is a terrific center athletic but the age??? and injury???

nikeball · 09-16-2006, 04:15 AM

As many others stated,

Camby and Martin miss a total of 10000 games in the past 5 seasons.

Camby is indeed a top 5 center when he plays. I love his game and as a fantasy center. Blocks/Steals up the wazoo. But for a team...i'd rather have reliable guys i can count on night in and night out. Even if it is ... erica dampier..