trading Tariq (his contract) for a 2nd rounder??? - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

hairball02 · 06-09-2005, 04:04 PM

all credit to dallasbasketball.com

Our Capologist David Lord Gives It A Shot

By David Lord – DallasBasketball.com

Has Tariq Become a Tradeable Asset?

To no one's surprise, word is the Mavs are looking to buy out Tariq Abdul-Wahad's contract and free up a roster spot this summer.

But there is also a very real chance something else could happen: Tariq – whose dispute with management makes him Dallas’ well-paid persona non grata -- might be used in a trade. Such an idea, which on the surface appears to be absurd when speaking of a player who hasn’t been healthy enough to play in two years, actually is more likely than it would seem.

The trade angle revolves around the nature of his contract, and what it might allow a team to do once they obtain him. Here is how it could work:

Reports say that TAW's contract is only 50% guaranteed next year, and 25% the following year. If the Mavs buy him out (or waive him), they would be obligated to pay him $5.625M ($3,656,250 + $1,968,750), or perhaps a bit less if a deal can be reached.

Lessening the cost of the buyout, and making for all kinds of intriguing options, is the existence of insurance, which reportedly would reimburse 80% of the buyout back to the team. Thus the Mavs’ net cost would be 20% of the $5.625M - which is only $1.125M. The amount of the total buyout itself would be apportioned to the Mavs cap total per year, so they would be charged with approx $3.66M in year 1 and $1.97M in year 2. If they want to, the Mavs can sit tight and get a moderate cap reduction and a bigger payroll savings.

But the Mavs, to avoid potential luxury tax on the buyout, might go a different route and choose to trade him to a team under the cap. If they offer him plus $2M cash to more than cover the $1.1M buyout cost, say for a 2nd round draft pick, would another team take on the hassle to net an easy $1M cash in their pocket? Would a budget-minded team like the Hornets, Clippers, or Hawks be interested in some easy cash this way? Probably so. Teams creatively sell their undesired draft picks at times (the going rate for a low 1st rounder has been about $3M, and 2nd's are far less), so such a money-making transaction might be chased by several willing teams if the Mavs offered it. The Mavs would also gain a sizable "trade exception" in such a deal, which they would be able to use at a later date if they so desired.

Another angle would involve a team looking for cap room or payroll reduction. In trading away TAW before the buyout, the Mavs could take back a contract as big as $8.5M first year salary (and even more if trade restrictions are lessened in the new CBA, as has been rumored). If there was a player the Mavs wanted and the other team was wanting quick payroll reduction, the Mavs could trade TAW for that player. The other team could get sizable cap relief in year 1 (as they reduced their cap number by around $4M immediately) plus they would reduce net payroll (after insurance reimbursement) by about an additional $3M. Because the Mavs would be helping the other team wash so much salary, the possibility would also exist for the Mavs to perhaps gain a draft pick in the deal from the other team, depending on the player and the salary the Mavs were willing to take.

The question in this case would become: who would another team be willing to part with if they could, that the Mavs would want and use? The options here may be extremely limited, but are certainly worth exploring. Keep in mind that teams in recent years have more or less been willing to give away players like Juwan Howard, Nick Van Exel, Raef LaFrentz, Antoine Walker, Jerry Stackhouse, Keith Van Horn, and so on, if someone would just find a way to take the contract off their hands.

In such a scenario, could Dallas gain a much needed backup big man? Just to toss out an example that works by the numbers, you could look at PJ Brown in New Orleans. He is a veteran big man who plays for a budget-minded Hornets team that is always looking for ways to save on payroll. Brown's contract is $8M per year for 2 years, which fits exactly into such a deal and isn’t a huge added expenditure for Cuban to assume. Note that there are limited contracts around the league in the $8M range, but keep in mind that this sort of angle could also be used as one part of a larger multi-player deal as well, where the Mavs add on talent to their side of the deal and get back a higher priced but even better player. In the big man category, would players like Jamaal Magloire or Theo Ratliff be obtainable in some sort of package combination that offers cap relief plus talent to the other team?

Or, perhaps the Mavs could make a TAW-for-player trade with a team near or under the cap who is looking to clear out cap space to acquire a free agent immediately. The other team could trade away an $8+M player (or players who add up to that), waive TAW immediately, and increase their spending limit by $4M or even more (depending on the exact size of the contract they traded away). And because of the insurance angle, the other team is only spending $1.1M to get that added flexibility, which would be a cheap price for such added opportunity.

The possibilities are intriguing and numerous, and this contract could even be a key tool in some sort of blockbuster deal, the kind that the Mavs have seemed to invent with regularity.

As to what the Mavs will actually be able to accomplish with this situation, we can only wait with anticipation and see. For Mavs fans, the fun part is knowing that something is going to happen in one way or another, because with this team the interesting deals always seem to keep on coming. <--back

V2M · 06-09-2005, 04:34 PM

Good work from David Lord and thanks for posting it hairball02.

I can't wait for the day we get rid of TAW. He's been the exact opposite of a true professional.

vashjan · 06-09-2005, 04:56 PM

excellent post...I love it. I hate to go to hoopshype.com and see TAW under our roster... It will be soooooo COOOOoooooooo!!!!!

So we will have TAW gone, Evan Esh gone, Darrell Armstrong & Henderson gone(love both though). We can get some sort of a defensive player & a draft pick for him ...say Raja Bell will be great. We can use the draft pick to pick up a solid big men prospect.

Maybe then we can trade Shawn Bradley for something and get someone else some ..Wow!!!

hairball02 · 06-09-2005, 06:09 PM

i think taw for a bag of cheeto's would be a good deal.

A 2nd rounder would be excellent, however the coaching staff has shown it doesnt need a pick to get someone valuable (quis).

WIN WIN situation

DubOverdose · 06-09-2005, 07:17 PM

I want the Mavs to hold on to TAW until his contract is expiring. I think we could get some good talent for him, not unlike KVH.

ddh33 · 06-09-2005, 07:26 PM

I just want him gone. I don't want him associated with my favorite team anymore, and if the Mavs can get something for him, it's a credit to their patience and testimony to how screwed up the NBA's system is.

Misfit Mav · 06-09-2005, 07:36 PM

It would be a pretty neat trick to turn that albatross into an asset. Sincerely hope it gets done, but I won't hold my breath.

Pirate · 06-09-2005, 08:06 PM

DUB, re TAW's contract, because of the way it works with insurance and with non-guaranteed portions, it appears that this summer is the time when it has its highest "expiring contract" potential. As the article points out, a team can get IMMEDIATE cap relief this summer, which is even better than a contract that a team takes for a year and waits til it expires a year from now. Following the math in the article, it looks like a team could get as much as almost 5M of immediate cap relief, and even more if they loosen up trade rules in the new CBA. The payroll savings would even be bigger (7.5M or more in year 1?). The question is how the Mavs can use it to its best potential, and whether Cuban wants to try to use it to save payroll for himself or whether he is willing to take on more salary by trading the savings to another team. Interesting choices.

bo319 · 06-10-2005, 08:59 AM

I like the NO scenario.
PJ Brown would be another welcomed piece to the Mavs puzzel. He would give us that added flexibility and at 6-11 be a better fit as 4-5 than Henderson could ever be, his contract is only for 2 more years which would allow us to see what we have in DJ and Pavel.

LRB · 06-10-2005, 10:24 AM

TAW for PJ would be a great trade. Even if PJ is on the downside of his career, we give up no talent to get him and he'll only have to come off the bench here. The only downside is cubes having to pickup extra lotto tax, but I think PJ would be worth it for 2 years.

mary · 06-10-2005, 11:24 AM

I would trade him for this. Of course, Cuban would probably have to throw in some cash.

Simon2 · 06-10-2005, 04:13 PM

To play Devil's Advocate here, what has TAW done that was so bad? The Mavs actually labeled this guy as "injured" when he wanted to play and contribute. He did play some last year and I thought he looked good. The Mavs basically ruined his career by shoving him to the end of the bench. Sure, the guy gets a ton of money but has anyone considered that he wants to play too? The Mavs just took away his chance to shine.

grndmstr_c · 06-10-2005, 04:15 PM

If he wanted to play and was capable he could have accepted a buyout and signed with somebody else. His actions in the matter speak for themselves.

LRB · 06-10-2005, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
If he wanted to play and was capable he could have accepted a buyout and signed with somebody else. His actions in the matter speak for themselves.

Exactly. He just wants the bucks without having to work for them. There's no real desire in TAW to play in the NBA again. The guys a lazy bum who wants a million dollar handout. And then whines about how hard he's got it. If we could trade TAW for a sack of s#!t we'd be better off, at least we could use that as fertilizer.

Simon2 · 06-10-2005, 05:04 PM

Wait a minute guys. The buyout is not for the full 100% of the money. If that's the case, who wouldn't do that? You can't really fault TAW if he didn't accept a buyout. Why? How can he bargain with other teams if he's been "injured" and hasn't been playing. Anybody would think that was stupid. Would you risk millions of dollars in order to play? I love basketball but if someone paid me not to play, that would be great. I just think the negativity against the guy is just crazy. The guy wanted to play but the Mavs never gave him a chance.

Pirate · 06-10-2005, 05:05 PM

We'll see what happens when he is jettisoned this summer.

mavsfanforever · 06-10-2005, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: LRB
TAW for PJ would be a great trade. Even if PJ is on the downside of his career, we give up no talent to get him and he'll only have to come off the bench here. The only downside is cubes having to pickup extra lotto tax, but I think PJ would be worth it for 2 years.

Any mention of PJ reminds me of the mvp voting.

No brainer according to me. I would take Sike over Tariq.

LRB · 06-11-2005, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Simon2
Wait a minute guys. The buyout is not for the full 100% of the money. If that's the case, who wouldn't do that? You can't really fault TAW if he didn't accept a buyout. Why? How can he bargain with other teams if he's been "injured" and hasn't been playing. Anybody would think that was stupid. Would you risk millions of dollars in order to play? I love basketball but if someone paid me not to play, that would be great. I just think the negativity against the guy is just crazy. The guy wanted to play but the Mavs never gave him a chance.

If I was in TAW's postion I'd asked for a buyout day1 when I saw the Mavs weren't going to play me. TAW already is a millionaire and can live quite comfortably for the rest of his life with what he already has earned. Sure he can't live as extravagantly as he can with a few more million. But the fact is I love to play basketball, and if I had talent and ability to play at the NBA level, I wouldn't sacrifice 2+ years and counting of it for money I don't need. Besides if TAW was any good he'd make up what ever money he left on the table and then some by getting out of his contract with the Mavs and going to play for someone else.

But TAW doesn't have near the love of the game as I do, and certainly nowhere near as much as he does of excess money and extravagent living. It's one thing if you're living paycheck to paycheck or even if you don't have enough saved to quit and live comfortably the rest of you life, but that's not TAW's situation. If you said I could have $10 million and play ball whenever I wanted or I could have $20 million and have to agree not to play ball for the next 5 years, I'd take the $10 million any day. Taw's made much more than $10 million so far and stands to make considerably less that an additonal $10 million. The guy just doesn't want to trade in a 2nd house with gold plated toliets to play basketball. I would say that's not very much love of the game.

dude1394 · 06-11-2005, 12:33 AM

I don't "fault" him for taking the money, but he's not praise-worthy either. If he had any desire to actually play, he'd do something about it.

But he doesn't really appear to give a rat's rear end about playing ball. That's okay, he lucked out and got a big contract. Just another one of many bball and other sports folks who did. It's the cost of running a pro sports team. The ticket buyers/tv buyers pick up that cost.

EricaLubarsky · 06-11-2005, 12:38 AM

I dont blame Tariq like I dont blame Nash: I dont hold the money against either of them. Its their talk that irks me.

Simon2 · 06-11-2005, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dude1394
I don't "fault" him for taking the money, but he's not praise-worthy either. If he had any desire to actually play, he'd do something about it.

But he doesn't really appear to give a rat's rear end about playing ball. That's okay, he lucked out and got a big contract. Just another one of many bball and other sports folks who did. It's the cost of running a pro sports team. The ticket buyers/tv buyers pick up that cost.

What would you like him to do?

Simon2 · 06-11-2005, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
I dont blame Tariq like I dont blame Nash: I dont hold the money against either of them. Its their talk that irks me.

What has he said that irks you?

EricaLubarsky · 06-11-2005, 02:47 AM

Just that he talks bad about the Mavericks ownership in his blog and keeps saying "I just want to play basketball". It's fine that he is getting paid for jack but he is on our payroll and thus shouldn't critique the management, and if he really wanted to play he'd accept a buyout.

dude1394 · 06-11-2005, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Simon2

Quote:

Originally posted by: dude1394
I don't "fault" him for taking the money, but he's not praise-worthy either. If he had any desire to actually play, he'd do something about it.

But he doesn't really appear to give a rat's rear end about playing ball. That's okay, he lucked out and got a big contract. Just another one of many bball and other sports folks who did. It's the cost of running a pro sports team. The ticket buyers/tv buyers pick up that cost.

What would you like him to do?

The same thing that YOU would do if you wanted to work at a profession but had a guaranteed paycheck somewhere else. People quit lucrative jobs everyday, in this case, he'd be quitting a lucrative "retirement". As noted he's certainly financially set for life, but his desire to be productive at his occupation is outweighed by his desire to keep getting his money.

Fine, I don't have a problem with it, but don't go whining around that someone is keeping him from playing. That's BS... If he wants to play, he can play tommorrow. Sure he'll have to give up some money and he doesn't want to, fine. But sitting around like someone "else" is doing this to him is typical of people who either can't take responsibility for their actions or have some sort of inferiority complex whereby all of their woes are not attributable to them, but to someone else.

Either take the money, go retire and shut up, or give up the money and play. The choice is his, no one else's.

dude1394 · 06-11-2005, 11:40 AM

And another deal. If he's really not injured and is being "kept" from playing by the mavs, well sue their asses or something. Since insurance companies in general aren't in the habit of giving away money on fraudulent medical claims, I suspect there is more to his injury than he's letting on.

IMO, it's a cultural deal whereby he cannot admit his own inability to perform and has to blame someone else, ie. the mavericks.

chumdawg · 06-11-2005, 12:02 PM

I'm pretty sure the Mavs have jerked this guy around pretty badly. I'm also pretty sure I don't give a crap.

freestyle · 06-11-2005, 12:13 PM

Talk about a millstone around our neck. What was Denver smoking when they gave him such a long term, high dollar contact? Thad had to be one of the worst signings ever. Denver probably made it a priority to move him before it became exhibit 1A on major mismanagement. Wasn't he supposed to be some kind of defensive specialist? NBA.com says he was traded by the Nuggets with Raef LaFrentz, Avery Johnson, and Nick Van Exel to the Dallas Mavericks for Juwan Howard, Donnell Harvey, Tim Hardaway and a 2002 first-round pick on 2/21/02. Who was the pick? Without a good pick, that deal was a bust.

grndmstr_c · 06-11-2005, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Who was the pick?

It looks like it was Frank Williams (25th). Players picked in the second round that year included: Dan Gadzuric, Carlos Boozer, Ronald Murray, and Darius Songaila, so there were some good guys available that year, but it's unlikely the Mavs would have chosen any of them anyway. There was nothing wrong with that trade. It got the team to the WCF.

freestyle · 06-11-2005, 12:45 PM

Yeah, I read it wrong--that wasn't such a bad trade. We ended up moving all those players but TAW.

Simon2 · 06-11-2005, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
Just that he talks bad about the Mavericks ownership in his blog and keeps saying "I just want to play basketball". It's fine that he is getting paid for jack but he is on our payroll and thus shouldn't critique the management, and if he really wanted to play he'd accept a buyout.

Again, a buyout will be much less than what he's earning right now and he would be taking a major risk. I don't think there a lot of people out there that would turn down millions.

Simon2 · 06-11-2005, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dude1394

Quote:

Originally posted by: Simon2

Quote:

Originally posted by: dude1394
I don't "fault" him for taking the money, but he's not praise-worthy either. If he had any desire to actually play, he'd do something about it.

But he doesn't really appear to give a rat's rear end about playing ball. That's okay, he lucked out and got a big contract. Just another one of many bball and other sports folks who did. It's the cost of running a pro sports team. The ticket buyers/tv buyers pick up that cost.

What would you like him to do?

The same thing that YOU would do if you wanted to work at a profession but had a guaranteed paycheck somewhere else. People quit lucrative jobs everyday, in this case, he'd be quitting a lucrative "retirement". As noted he's certainly financially set for life, but his desire to be productive at his occupation is outweighed by his desire to keep getting his money.

Fine, I don't have a problem with it, but don't go whining around that someone is keeping him from playing. That's BS... If he wants to play, he can play tommorrow. Sure he'll have to give up some money and he doesn't want to, fine. But sitting around like someone "else" is doing this to him is typical of people who either can't take responsibility for their actions or have some sort of inferiority complex whereby all of their woes are not attributable to them, but to someone else.

Either take the money, go retire and shut up, or give up the money and play. The choice is his, no one else's.

I think you are being to harsh on the guy. Has he said anything that wasn't the truth? Didn't the Mavs shove him off to the end of the bench hoping the insurance would cover half his salary? Come on. The Mavs are notorious for putting people on the "injured" list. In fact, a lot of teams do that. Let's say TAW did sure the Mavs and they put him on the active roster, they still wouldn't play him and what happens then? TAW was really put in a bad situation.

Simon2 · 06-11-2005, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dude1394
And another deal. If he's really not injured and is being "kept" from playing by the mavs, well sue their asses or something. Since insurance companies in general aren't in the habit of giving away money on fraudulent medical claims, I suspect there is more to his injury than he's letting on.

IMO, it's a cultural deal whereby he cannot admit his own inability to perform and has to blame someone else, ie. the mavericks.

So he will sue the Mavs and get a bad rep around the league as someone who sues his own club? Nice. Who knows. Maybe he's waiting for his last paycheck and he'll sue the Mavs for fraudulent medical claims. He probably has independent doctors who have evaluated him as perfectly fine and he'll bring that out when the time is right.

Poindexter Einstein · 06-11-2005, 02:24 PM

1. Re a lawsuit: In what way has he been harmed, in violation of his contract? (None.) His contract requires the team to pay him - and he was paid. It does not require the team to use him. The idea that he could successfully sue the Mavs is laughable.

2. Re accepting a buyuout: There are players who regularly have taken buyouts at a reduced rate, in order to be able to go to another team. Why? Because they want the opportunity to play elsewhere, to play more, to get away, or whatever else dissatisfies them. The team and the player come together and work something out, and the player takes a bit less money but can make it up by getting a new contract. TAW instead said he wanted full pay PLUS the opportunity to get full pay from someone else as well. If there is fault, it lies with TAW for whining, when he could have taken the exit door but wouldnt.

3. Re his injury: The Mavs have insisted repeatedly that he cant play. The team doctors who treat him say the same. They say that when they have tried to activate him, he can play for a few games, and then the degenerative nature of his knee problem makes him unavailable. So they (rightly) put him on the injured list, and are reimbursed for a player that is disabled. The idea that they are doing something wrong, in using the insurance they have paid for when they have incurred a loss that it is designed to protect them from, is absurd.

4. Re what happens now: He will be gone from the Mavs this summer, one way or the other. Whoever has him, whether its the Mavs or another team via trade, will waive him. And that will be the end of that saga.

mavsfanforever · 06-11-2005, 02:52 PM

Actually one of my collegues said that Tariq often comes to play soccer on weekends with my collegues friends. He said tariq plays for a few minutes and then grabs his knee and rubs on it. I think the mavs are stating the truth that he cannot play for more than a few games.

dude1394 · 06-11-2005, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Simon2

I think you are being to harsh on the guy. Has he said anything that wasn't the truth? Didn't the Mavs shove him off to the end of the bench hoping the insurance would cover half his salary? Come on. The Mavs are notorious for putting people on the "injured" list. In fact, a lot of teams do that. Let's say TAW did sure the Mavs and they put him on the active roster, they still wouldn't play him and what happens then? TAW was really put in a bad situation.

The mavs aren't any more notorious for putting people on the injured list than any other club. It's one the things that cubes has griped about, how everyone puts someone on the "injured" list instead of just something called a reserve list..

Again insurance IS covering half of his salary. But again I'm really not being that harsh on the guy, he wants to take his money, fine, he just shouldn't whine around about how someone is mis-treating his poor, baby self. It's obvious he'd rather collect his money than play, fine, collect but shut the hell up about it. There have been quite a few players who have turned down dollars to get to play...Guess what....It was because they WANTED to play. He either really doesn't, or is still hurt.

And if he's still hurt he should shut the hell up and quit whining as well.

dude1394 · 06-11-2005, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Poindexter Einstein
1. Re a lawsuit: In what way has he been harmed, in violation of his contract? (None.) His contract requires the team to pay him - and he was paid. It does not require the team to use him. The idea that he could successfully sue the Mavs is laughable.

2. Re accepting a buyuout: There are players who regularly have taken buyouts at a reduced rate, in order to be able to go to another team. Why? Because they want the opportunity to play elsewhere, to play more, to get away, or whatever else dissatisfies them. The team and the player come together and work something out, and the player takes a bit less money but can make it up by getting a new contract. TAW instead said he wanted full pay PLUS the opportunity to get full pay from someone else as well. If there is fault, it lies with TAW for whining, when he could have taken the exit door but wouldnt.

3. Re his injury: The Mavs have insisted repeatedly that he cant play. The team doctors who treat him say the same. They say that when they have tried to activate him, he can play for a few games, and then the degenerative nature of his knee problem makes him unavailable. So they (rightly) put him on the injured list, and are reimbursed for a player that is disabled. The idea that they are doing something wrong, in using the insurance they have paid for when they have incurred a loss that it is designed to protect them from, is absurd.

4. Re what happens now: He will be gone from the Mavs this summer, one way or the other. Whoever has him, whether its the Mavs or another team via trade, will waive him. And that will be the end of that saga.

Although not a lawyer, I could see a case made that if he is being fraudently put on an injured list then his potential earnings are being quite harmed. If he COULD play and he's being put on that list not only is his reputation being irreperably harmed it would seem, but some of that touchy-feely pain and suffering would have to exist as well. He could be making three times as much somewhere else, who knows, he might be a bruce bowen type and win 2-3 championships. But the premise is that he's being put there fraudently. If he is then the mavs have a responsibliy to play him or cut him.

Pirate · 06-11-2005, 04:56 PM

"...the mavs have a responsibliy to play him or cut him. "

Nonsense. What contract tells the team it has an obligation to play the player? Their only obligation is to PAY him. What they then do with him on the court is left up to their own discretion. And as for the "injured" list harming him, every team looking at a free agent does a physical, so they make up their own mind either way. The guy is a scrub, frankly, which is the real problem.

chumdawg · 06-11-2005, 06:04 PM

Could someone please quote Tariq "whining" on the subject? I looked at his webpage, but I couldn't find anything--at least not in English, that is.

Thanks.

Oh, and by the way, he couldn't possibly make triple what he does, could he? Isn't he netting a pretty nice chunk of change as it is?

grndmstr_c · 06-11-2005, 06:07 PM

CD, I think some people have posted translations of the stuff on his webpage in which he's been critical of the Mavs (and Nellie in particular). Might be able to find it if you did a search.

dude1394 · 06-11-2005, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Pirate
"...the mavs have a responsibliy to play him or cut him. "

Nonsense. What contract tells the team it has an obligation to play the player? Their only obligation is to PAY him. What they then do with him on the court is left up to their own discretion. And as for the "injured" list harming him, every team looking at a free agent does a physical, so they make up their own mind either way. The guy is a scrub, frankly, which is the real problem.

Why is this nonsense if he's not injured and is put on the injured list for 3 years now fraudently? MAYBE you could say they are not legally obligated to allow him to compete for a spot on the team but IMO if he is healthy they are obligated to allow him to compete for a position.

And no contract says they have to "play" him but I would bet that the mavs couldn't stock 3 healthy players on their injured list for three years for example if they were healthy.