Dallas @ Philadelphia Gameday Thread

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally posted by: Don_Didi

Ah, spoken by a truly bitter fan. You should give credit where credit is duea,d show respect where respect is due, or just shut up altogether You want us to boo Nash every time he comes to Dallas or soething? IS that your style?

Actually, I was half-joking. Of course I give credit where credit is due. Nash played a major part in building this franchise into what it is. And I certainly don't want everyone to boo him (when Phoenix played at the AAC, I not only cheered on Nash, but wore his jersey.) In all honesty, I just loved him too much when he played here. I would say things like "He's more important to the team than Dirk is..." just because he was my favorite, not because I really believed it. When he left, I was pissed off. The fact that Phoenix had an incredible season just made it worse. Deep down, I still love the guy, but I want the Mavs to beat the crap out of Phoenix, and as I said before, if and when the Mavs win it all, I will really enjoy seeing Nash looking from outside-in.

Oh yeah, don't tell me to shut up.

[dude1394]

So why not do a sign and trade with someone else?

[dirno2000]

So why not do a sign and trade with someone else?

1) Nash would have had to agree to go somewhere else. After PHX flew in their new ownership team and Amare and made him a very generous offer, he would have had to turn it down. They made it clear that they didn't want a long drawn out process and if he didn't take it, they would look elsewhere. Even without the ultimatum, he probably wouldn't have done that just because the city was attractive to him...I believe he still had ties there.

2) Nash would have had to find a team over the cap willing to at least match that PXH offer.

3) We would have had to take back roughly $10MM in salary back from that team.

[Don_Didi]

Originally posted by: Thespiralgoeson

Actually, I was half-joking. Of course I give credit where credit is due. Nash played a major part in building this franchise into what it is. And I certainly don't want everyone to boo him (when Phoenix played at the AAC, I not only cheered on Nash, but wore his jersey.) In all honesty, I just loved him too much when he played here. I would say things like "He's more important to the team than Dirk is..." just because he was my favorite, not because I really believed it. When he left, I was pissed off. The fact that Phoenix had an incredible season just made it worse. Deep down, I still love the guy, but I want the Mavs to beat the crap out of Phoenix, and as I said before, if and when the Mavs win it all, I will really enjoy seeing Nash looking from outside-in.

Oh yeah, don't tell me to shut up.

I understand the sentiment, but I really don't think it is necessary. I think it's no secret to anyone that Phoenix is one of the more unloikely title contenders in this league, it would take a remarkable feat indeed for Nash not to look from the outside in. I guess I just can't agree with you, but your extra explanation sure negates most of the edge of my previous post. I appologize.

[FreshJive]

The blame for the Nash thing was most certainly Cuban's fault. The biggest evidence for this is the way Dirk reacted to the situation. Dirk was clearly pissed at Cuban because he refused to call the Mavs back for like a month or so. Dirk was privy to all of the negotiation details, and even told Nash he had to take the Phoenix offer. So if Dirk was pissed at Cuban, then its obvious who the guilty party was. If it was Nash's fault he would have been mad at Nash. For whatever reason Cuban never wanted to resign Nash, and this was must have been obvious to Steve, Dirk, Nellie, and probably Fin because they all seemed blindsided by the whole thing and all of the animosity and head scratching seemed directed towards Cuban. They all seemed to agree with, and encourage Nash's decesion. The original offer he gave to Nash (the amount was disputed) was meant to be beat all along.

Personally my conspiracy theory is that Cuban wanted to get rid of Nellie's point gaurd, so he could then rid himself of Nellie as head coach, because the basketball people in Dallas all wanted Nash to stay, and Cuban has continued to spend the money he said he didn't want to spend at the time. "Cuban wanted to sign Nash but he left for more money" just isn't a likely scenario given the circumstances.

Also there is no reason why we couldn't have Damp and Devin (even Terry) and still have Nash to go along with them, and this team would be sicker for it.

[jthig32]

You people continue to miss the point of the Nash contract.

The main point was not the money, but the years. Phoenix gave him more years, and gave him enough mroe money per year that they're going to be locked into a terrible contract for Steve unless he stays useful as he gets older.

Point guards just don't do well as they get older. Let's all have a look at Jason Kidd's contract. New Jersey was so excited when they resigned him...now what do they think of that contract.

You can't look at things in the short term. It's not about this year with this team, although we have a great chance to do something special this year. It's about how the main core of our team is quite young. It's about the fact that we have a young point guard with star potential ready to take over.

As other have already said, let's not underestimate the effect of Nash leaving had on Dirk. He would not have taken this step forward in leadership, playing style, etc. had his little buddy been around for him to lean on.

[dude1394]

I'm just not trying to re-hash the nash signing/not signing. What I am trying to re-hash is letting someone go for nothing.

1) Nash would have had to agree to go somewhere else. After PHX flew in their new ownership team and Amare and made him a very generous offer, he would have had to turn it down. They made it clear that they didn't want a long drawn out process and if he didn't take it, they would look elsewhere. Even without the ultimatum, he probably wouldn't have done that just because the city was attractive to him...I believe he still had ties there.

The point would have been to do something BEFORE he became a free agent. That wasn't even attempted. It was go test the market and I'll match (that WAS the inference). So what you are telling me is that any of our players who will be free agents next year, there is nothing that can be done to get any value for them, ANY value.
The more I think about how stupid this was on cubans part, the more I want to buy into freshjive's conspiracy theory, (not sure about the nellie angle, he could have just fired him). What better way to get rid of nash than let him look greedy and leave. That almost makes more sense to me than letting him go for nothing.

2) Nash would have had to find a team over the cap willing to at least match that PXH offer.

Not nash, cubes/donnie/etc. Of course this would have meant NOT letting him get to free-agency but trying to deal him earlier. And I think cubes wanted to keep him, but just not bad enough to match phoenix's price. I also know it's hindsight on my part, cubes did not know the market for nash and just misjudged it. If he had known the market for nash, he probably would have traded him for something.

Okay, i'm done, it was pretty tough letting an all-star go for nothing, but cubes gambled on knowing the market and misjudged it, anyone could do it, but it does mean there is a pretty high draft pick NOT in our stable becasue of it.

3) We would have had to take back roughly $10MM in salary back from that team.

I don't think that would have been a large issue, if it wasn't longterm.

[dirno2000]

The point would have been to do something BEFORE he became a free agent. That wasn't even attempted. It was go test the market and I'll match (that WAS the inference). So what you are telling me is that any of our players who will be free agents next year, there is nothing that can be done to get any value for them, ANY value.
The more I think about how stupid this was on cubans part, the more I want to buy into freshjive's conspiracy theory, (not sure about the nellie angle, he could have just fired him). What better way to get rid of nash than let him look greedy and leave. That almost makes more sense to me than letting him go for nothing.

You keep saying “do something before he become a FA" but you’re not really saying what. Cuban couldn’t have signed him to an extension until Nash opted out and became a FA. I guess we could have traded him at the trade deadline, but we kind of needed him.

The Suns started negotiating with Nash as soon as the FA period began. What you’re saying is that Cuban and Nash should have been illegally negotiating with a team before he was a FA.

Not nash, cubes/donnie/etc. Of course this would have meant NOT letting him get to free-agency but trying to deal him earlier. And I think cubes wanted to keep him, but just not bad enough to match phoenix's price. I also know it's hindsight on my part, cubes did not know the market for nash and just misjudged it. If he had known the market for nash, he probably would have traded him for something.
Okay, i'm done, it was pretty tough letting an all-star go for nothing, but cubes gambled on knowing the market and misjudged it, anyone could do it, but it does mean there is a pretty high draft pick NOT in our stable becasue of it.

So basically you’re blaming him for not trading Nash in the summer or at the trade deadline. You’re right in saying it’s hindsight on your part because nobody could have known that Nash was going to get that many years. If you did you could have traded him for Brad Miller before he want to Sac. I wasn’t a member of the board a the time, but I’d imagine most Mavs fans, including yourself, would have been against that.

I don't think that would have been a large issue, if it wasn't longterm.

You’re missing the point. Our two needs were PG and center. The only decent center on the block was Damp, but there was no way Nash would have signed with Golden State. We wouldn’t have got a decent PG back because if they had one to give, they wouldn’t need Nash. So we would have taken back $10MM in salary for players we didn’t really need and unless they were all expiring contracts (not likely) it would have affected Cuban’s resolve to eventually sign Damp.

You keep lamenting the fact that we let an All-Star go without compensation while ignoring the fact that his long-term salary that we saved on Nash eventually went to Damp. Sure we could have kept Nash and signed Damp, but that would have pushed us over the $100MM threshold and I seriously doubt even Mark Cuban wants to go t