Dallas Mavericks Offseason Thread - Page 151 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

nowhereman · 08-11-2009, 06:13 PM

6000!

wmbwinn · 08-11-2009, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

If we have to ditch gooden in mid-season I am depressed. I don't see many if any teams add major pieces at the trade deadline and compete.

Agreed. I actually hope (against all evidence to the contrary) that Gooden fits here and excels here. We have needed a center that could force defences to cover our center (and not fade towards Dirk) for years. If Gooden can do that, he becomes Golden (a silly play on one little letter).

And, if he is crap, he is a Buck Shot like deal and that is Golden also. Call it the Golden Shot (I predict perverse comparisons to sexual acts jumping onto the chat board...).

DavidDaMonkey · 08-11-2009, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

Agreed. I actually hope (against all evidence to the contrary) that Gooden fits here and excels here. We have needed a center that could force defences to cover our center (and not fade towards Dirk) for years. If Gooden can do that, he becomes Golden (a silly play on one little letter).

And, if he is crap, he is a Buck Shot like deal and that is Golden also. Call it the Golden Shot (I predict perverse comparisons to sexual acts jumping onto the chat board...).

And I hope Nathan Jawai excels here, but I don't think it will happen. I don't think anyone doesn't want Gooden to excel, we just don't think he will and therefore hope we can get something good for him. Having him be good enough to fill a need and then some is the best option though.

wmbwinn · 08-11-2009, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidDaMonkey

And I hope Nathan Jawai excels here, but I don't think it will happen. I don't think anyone doesn't want Gooden to excel, we just don't think he will and therefore hope we can get something good for him. Having him be good enough to fill a need and then some is the best option though.

I don't disagree with you at all.

But... If Gooden can punish a team that fades the center towards Dirk on defense, then Gooden is Golden and stays on the team.

If the center can't fade towards Dirk's back in the high post, Dirk is going to have a hell of a season.

What I am saying is that Gooden doesn't have to be an all star to make this team a lot better. He just has to be good enough to prevent the center doubling on Dirk.

If we had a Gooden type player when we faced the Heat for the championship, we would have won. We lost because Riley (the genius) pulled Shaq and played Alonzo Mourning and told Zo to double Dirk at his back and ignore Dampier on defense...

When the ball went to Dampier, he was too slow and clumsy and gave the defense time to collapse on him.

So... Gooden in that year would have meant rings in my opinion.

sefant77 · 08-11-2009, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

I don't disagree with you at all.

But... If Gooden can punish a team that fades the center towards Dirk on defense, then Gooden is Golden and stays on the team.

If the center can't fade towards Dirk's back in the high post, Dirk is going to have a hell of a season.

What I am saying is that Gooden doesn't have to be an all star to make this team a lot better. He just has to be good enough to prevent the center doubling on Dirk.

Exactly. He is able to catch passes, Damp was never able to do that. And he can finish. With 3 of the scoring 4 (JET/Josh/Dirk/Marion) on the court beside Kidd and Gooden u simply cant double Dirk because the open man will be too good in offense and punish it (together with Kidds passing skills to find that open guy).

And if we play that R&G with Dirk at center there wont be any doubles either except one of our guys is stonecold.

The only problem with Gooden is that he maybe get at defense together with Dirk so damn burned that the offensive advantage get destroyed...

jthig32 · 08-11-2009, 09:29 PM

You can find any number of players to stick at center and they'll be able to score a little. Gooden is going to score a little bit from center. That is not a question and not even close to the key to his contributions.

The question is whether he can provide that offense while not completely negating it by completely sucking defensively. That was the question with Bass, and it's the question with just about anyone the Mavs are going to put at center this season that is not named Damp. His questions are exactly the opposite, obviously.

wmbwinn · 08-11-2009, 10:12 PM

Yes, I agree that Gooden is not Dampier on defense. When we face a team with a scoring center (there are not many great scoring centers in the NBA and all of those teams that have one are Championship contenders), Dampier will log minutes. Gooden then plays when:
1)that center is on the bench
2)when the offensive need is desperate and the risk of losing on defense is outweighed by the offensive need
3)the opponent's center is doubling Dirk

Neither Gooden nor Dampier are perfect. But, there just aren't a lot of Dwight Howards in the NBA...

jthig32 · 08-12-2009, 07:19 AM

Everyone always focuses on the opposing center when talking about defense from our center. And that always misses the point, in my mind.

When Dirk is your PF, you need a defensive center, not only to guard opposing big men, but to clog the lane and defend the rim. This is why the question of whether they can live with Gooden defensively is so important, not because we face elite offensive big men every night.

Windmill360 · 08-12-2009, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

You can find any number of players to stick at center and they'll be able to score a little. Gooden is going to score a little bit from center. That is not a question and not even close to the key to his contributions.

The question is whether he can provide that offense while not completely negating it by completely sucking defensively. That was the question with Bass, and it's the question with just about anyone the Mavs are going to put at center this season that is not named Damp. His questions are exactly the opposite, obviously.

what was the question?

jthig32 · 08-12-2009, 08:23 AM

^^^ Heh. Yeah...that's terrible.

As I'm sure some have noticed in my time here, I have a bizarre tendency to latch onto a word or short phrase and repeat it over and over in a post. I read back through my posts later on and am horrified.

Ah well. A writer I am not.

Rick41 · 08-12-2009, 09:46 AM

I don't know if this has been discussed or not, but here it goes.

Quote:

14. Utah Jazz

Key additions: Eric Maynor

Key subtractions: None

In limbo: Jarron Collins (U), Morris Almond (U), Brevin Knight (U)

The Jazz have had a very costly summer. Carlos Boozer decided to return to the team for another season at $12.7 million. Then the Jazz extended Mehmet Okur's contract. Finally, they matched Paul Millsap's four-year, $32 million offer sheet from the Blazers, swallowing the hefty $5.6 million signing bonus Portland threw in. Now things get really interesting because the Jazz are set to incur major luxury-tax penalties this season, a big no-no in past years in Utah. That has led GM Kevin O'Connor to actively pursue trades for Boozer. The Jazz have talked deals with the Bulls, Mavs, Heat and Pistons.

http://dallasbasketballdotcom.yuku.com/topic/30688

bobatundi · 08-12-2009, 11:33 AM

Boozer for Buckner-Humphries-Williams-Jawai works under the cap.

Utah does it purely to save money. They waive Buck immediately, and save $5.3MM this year ($10.6 if you factor in LT). They're on the hook for Humphries' player option for next season at $3.2MM, but they have some time to sort that out, can keep him on the roster (as they'll have other contracts coming off by then) or trade him in the offseason as an expiring.

Mavs do it, obviously, to trade a bunch of junk for an All-Star offensive post presence, also clears out the roster logjam quite a bit.

For the record, I HATE Carlos Loozer...but if this deal can happen, you have to pull the trigger. Worst case is you have a $12MM expiring either coming off the books at the end of the season, or to use at the deadline; if Loozer stays through the end of the season, you have his Bird rights, and can either re-sign him or use him in a S&T for a free agent who meets a need better.

Kidd Karma · 08-12-2009, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobatundi

Boozer for Buckner-Humphries-Williams-Jawai works under the cap.

Utah does it purely to save money. They waive Buck immediately, and save $5.3MM this year ($10.6 if you factor in LT). They're on the hook for Humphries' player option for next season at $3.2MM, but they have some time to sort that out, can keep him on the roster (as they'll have other contracts coming off by then) or trade him in the offseason as an expiring.

Mavs do it, obviously, to trade a bunch of junk for an All-Star offensive post presence, also clears out the roster logjam quite a bit.

For the record, I HATE Carlos Loozer...but if this deal can happen, you have to pull the trigger. Worst case is you have a $12MM expiring either coming off the books at the end of the season, or to use at the deadline; if Loozer stays through the end of the season, you have his Bird rights, and can either re-sign him or use him in a S&T for a free agent who meets a need better.

...my question why is Boozer still in Utah today. He was supposed to opt out, then in, picked up the option, then Utah matches Millsap....Utah doesn't want to pay the tax. Now quiet on that front, Utah's not desperate to dump him. Could it be that Utah's eyeing the Buck Shot...since there is no other immediate savings that can be moved today?

DavidDaMonkey · 08-12-2009, 01:44 PM

If we add Boozer to the lineup, I think we can seal up the guarantee that we will be the number one rebounding team in the league.

sefant77 · 08-12-2009, 01:51 PM

Would the Jazz really trady Boozer to a potential PO opponent to save 10mio?

With the possibility for us to keep Boozer longtime or getting talent in a S&T?

I doubt...

They ship them in the east or keep him this year...

Funny, Boozer and Gooden are practically the same players, just Boozer is twice as good in offense. The rest: no defense, character issues, fucking ugly...

DevinHarriswillstart · 08-12-2009, 01:55 PM

We'd also be the best offensive team, hands down. Boozer is still capable of being a 20/10 guy so if you get that for junk then yeah.

Kinda a weak rumor though but hey, August. Better than nothing to talk about.

Kidd Karma · 08-12-2009, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Funny, Boozer and Gooden are practically the same players, just Boozer is twice as good in offense. The rest: no defense, character issues, fucking ugly...

Not really you give Boozer the ball on the low block at about 8 feet on the right block, he will find a way to score on a 2 foot layup. Gooden can't do that. That's a huge difference in their games. Boozer's ability to post up in the low block.

Mavsfan4ever · 08-12-2009, 02:38 PM

Interesting to note the Jazz are selling Boozers jerseys at half price.

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archiv...at_half_price/

Bayliss · 08-12-2009, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Interesting to note the Jazz are selling Boozers jerseys at half price.

I wonder if blind men would notice the difference?

Windmill360 · 08-12-2009, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavsfan4ever

Interesting to note the Jazz are selling Boozers jerseys at half price.

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archiv...at_half_price/

so we get boozer?~~

Kidd Karma · 08-12-2009, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windmill360

so we get boozer?~~

One can only hope, it'd be an interesting lineup we send out there. Boozer gets the official designation as center?

Mavsfan4ever · 08-12-2009, 02:52 PM

I would like to see Boozer in Mavs blue guess at this point it's wait and see.

badfish22 · 08-12-2009, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

One can only hope, it'd be an interesting lineup we send out there. Boozer gets the official designation as center?

I wish we could get a defensive center instead of Boozer. I just don't know how to feel about it if we get him.
On one hand he is like Gooden but 10 times better at offense and rebounding, but he also knows hes better and is gonna want touches and minutes.

Boozer won't like it if we play Kidd/Terry/J-ho/Marion/Dirk to finish games.
He is known to be kind of a winer.

And I know that we might not even be even interested in Boozer, just speculating.

Mavsfan4ever · 08-12-2009, 03:09 PM

What other big men could we realistically look at? I'm not saying Boozer is realistic at this point just asking.

Robillion · 08-12-2009, 03:31 PM

If we got Boozer, Terry or Howard would be on the bench at the end of the game. Not Boozer.

Kidd Karma · 08-12-2009, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robillion

If we got Boozer, Terry or Howard would be on the bench at the end of the game. Not Boozer.

Boozer gets us easy points, plus he isn't a 50% free throw shooter. So he won't be a target to hammer in the final possessions of games.

eyedentifyme · 08-12-2009, 03:44 PM

Clippers Get Rasual Butler From Hornets

Aug 12, 2009 1:14 PM EST

The Hornets have traded Rasual Butler to the Clippers in exchange for a future second-round pick, according to sources.

The trade is expected to be officially announced on Wednesday afternoon.

Butler will earn $3.9 million in 2009-10, and the move will allow New Orleans to save close to $8 million when luxury tax implications are taken into account.

The Mavericks could have used Buckner to get him.

Mavsfan4ever · 08-12-2009, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyedentifyme

Clippers Get Rasual Butler From Hornets

Aug 12, 2009 1:14 PM EST

The Hornets have traded Rasual Butler to the Clippers in exchange for a future second-round pick, according to sources.

The trade is expected to be officially announced on Wednesday afternoon.

Butler will earn $3.9 million in 2009-10, and the move will allow New Orleans to save close to $8 million when luxury tax implications are taken into account.

The Mavericks could have used Buckner to get him.

I'm not sure we need another player coming off the end of the bench. I would feel better using the buck shot for a center or another big man.

Kidd Karma · 08-12-2009, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavsfan4ever

I'm not sure we need another player coming off the end of the bench. I would feel better using the buck shot for a center or another big man.

Agreed, if that were the case, we could have just signed McCants to the remainder of the MLE. In addition, NO was not desperate to move him, not desperate enough to move him to a division rival.

Camby or Dalembert would be my top picks at this point.

sefant77 · 08-12-2009, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Not really you give Boozer the ball on the low block at about 8 feet on the right block, he will find a way to score on a 2 foot layup. Gooden can't do that. That's a huge difference in their games. Boozer's ability to post up in the low block.

Yeah, thats exactly the point why Boozer is twice as good in offense

Mavsfan4ever · 08-12-2009, 04:41 PM

If we were to get Boozer I can see trading Gooden by the deadline.

Kidd Karma · 08-12-2009, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavsfan4ever

If we were to get Boozer I can see trading Gooden by the deadline.

0 guaranteed versus a 3.6 cap hit is much more easier to move.

Mavsfan4ever · 08-12-2009, 05:03 PM

We make moves with Buckner and and Gooden that land us quality players we will all be singing Donnie's praises.

Kidd Karma · 08-12-2009, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavsfan4ever

We make moves with Buckner and and Gooden that land us quality players we will all be singing Donnie's praises.

In this economic climate, it's hard not to snag a rotational player, but getting the right one is the key.

Mavsfan4ever · 08-12-2009, 05:52 PM

Real GM says the Clippers are close to signing Sessions. If this is true perhaps they will be looking to drop some salary and we could pick up Kaman or Camby.

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archiv...rs_closing_in/

badfish22 · 08-12-2009, 05:59 PM

Hopefully camby for a bunch of expiring.

Kidd Karma · 08-12-2009, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

Hopefully camby for a bunch of expiring.

Puts us at the top of the list.

Mavsfan4ever · 08-12-2009, 06:12 PM

Have a question and can't think of a better place to ask, does anyone know when tickets for preseason games go on sell? The Mavs are hosting the Magic Oct 5th and I would like to see them trounce the Magic.

badfish22 · 08-12-2009, 06:16 PM

Even Terry said we were a long defensive center away from championship contenders.

Heres that video if anyone hasnt seen it yet.

I like how Terry gets really excited at about 4:50 lol.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 08-12-2009, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

Hopefully camby for a bunch of expiring.

The one problem with that is that Camby himself is an expiring.