Putting some needs together...and netting Pierce - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

chumdawg · 08-05-2005, 12:16 AM

Okay, Boston seriously wants to be rid of Mark Blount, and they are willing to tip Marcus Banks to get it done. (They may wish to trade Banks at any rate, as he appears to be the odd man out up there.) So let's start with something like this:

Blount/Banks for TAW

Boston should like this, if they really just want to be rid of those players. Do we have use for Blount and Banks? Well, we do need a backup 5 who can run the floor and block some shots, who can do things Damp can't. Or so I hear. Blount had an off year last season, but circumstances may have gone against him. Before last year he looked like a good shotblocker if nothing else. He can probably be a capable backup, at least in some sense of that word. (Would Hunter be that much better?)

Banks appears to be able to get after it defensively. He can get some steals, anyway. If you believe he has some upside, you might not mind him as the third point guard.

But of course, that takes on some salary for Dallas, which they don't want to do. Blount and Daniels have similar contracts, though, so let's look at that.

Boston happens to now own a trade exception just the right size to take on Marquis. Would they want him? I guess you can never have enough young talent, if that's the route you are going. So let's call it Blount/Banks for TAW/Daniels, and we get a trade exception out of the deal.

I think that's a hell of a deal for Boston. So I think they owe us something. I think what they owe us is Pierce for Finley and Harris.

So you make the first deal look like this:

Pierce
Blount
Banks

for

Finley
TAW
Harris

This works, I think, though just barely. Maybe the Mavs like the defensive-minded Justin Reed, and that's part of the reason Boston took their option on him? You can throw him into their end of it if you want to. Maybe you throw him in and we throw Benga in. Who knows.

Then the second deal nets us the TE.

We send out about $32MM in salary and take back $21MM or so. So we net a nice savings in the first year. Pierce's and Finley's contracts match in length, as do Blount's and Daniels's (with the exception of the last year of Daniels's deal being a team option). TAW's and Banks's contracts are probably pretty similar in terms of cash outflow, if TAW's contract is mostly covered. But of course, we get some luxury tax savings there.

Now we are probably going to need a #2 PG, which we should be able to get with either the MLE or the TE from Boston. Earl Watson, perhaps? We probably need depth at the swing positions as well, but I think we can get something decent enough to round out the roster here at a short price.

Lineup:

Damp/Blount/DJ
Dirk/KVB/Powell
Pierce/Howard
Stack/Howard
Terry/???/Banks

What do you think?

Thespiralgoeson · 08-05-2005, 01:23 AM

I wish to god Boston would do that. Although, I don't think this deal works unless we throw in an expirer, probably KVH. I also can't really see them taking Finley from us, seeing as how they're going for youth. I suppose they'll need a veteran to show these kids the ropes, cuz god knows Rickey Davis ain't gonna do it. There's another problem with what you're proposing though.

Quote:

Damp/Blount/DJ
Dirk/KVB/Powell
Pierce/Howard
Stack/Howard
Terry/???/Banks

No way Stack starts over Howard. If we had Pierce the lineup would have to be

Jet
Pierce
Howard
Dirk
Damp

unless of course Howard would be involved in the trade, which is not something I'm sure I'd be willing to do.

echo · 08-05-2005, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: chumdawg
Okay, Boston seriously wants to be rid of Mark Blount, and they are willing to tip Marcus Banks to get it done. (They may wish to trade Banks at any rate, as he appears to be the odd man out up there.) So let's start with something like this:

Blount/Banks for TAW

Boston should like this, if they really just want to be rid of those players. Do we have use for Blount and Banks? Well, we do need a backup 5 who can run the floor and block some shots, who can do things Damp can't. Or so I hear. Blount had an off year last season, but circumstances may have gone against him. Before last year he looked like a good shotblocker if nothing else. He can probably be a capable backup, at least in some sense of that word. (Would Hunter be that much better?)

Banks appears to be able to get after it defensively. He can get some steals, anyway. If you believe he has some upside, you might not mind him as the third point guard.

But of course, that takes on some salary for Dallas, which they don't want to do. Blount and Daniels have similar contracts, though, so let's look at that.

Boston happens to now own a trade exception just the right size to take on Marquis. Would they want him? I guess you can never have enough young talent, if that's the route you are going. So let's call it Blount/Banks for TAW/Daniels, and we get a trade exception out of the deal.

I think that's a hell of a deal for Boston. So I think they owe us something. I think what they owe us is Pierce for Finley and Harris.

So you make the first deal look like this:

Pierce
Blount
Banks

for

Finley
TAW
Harris

This works, I think, though just barely. Maybe the Mavs like the defensive-minded Justin Reed, and that's part of the reason Boston took their option on him? You can throw him into their end of it if you want to. Maybe you throw him in and we throw Benga in. Who knows.

Then the second deal nets us the TE.

We send out about $32MM in salary and take back $21MM or so. So we net a nice savings in the first year. Pierce's and Finley's contracts match in length, as do Blount's and Daniels's (with the exception of the last year of Daniels's deal being a team option). TAW's and Banks's contracts are probably pretty similar in terms of cash outflow, if TAW's contract is mostly covered. But of course, we get some luxury tax savings there.

Now we are probably going to need a #2 PG, which we should be able to get with either the MLE or the TE from Boston. Earl Watson, perhaps? We probably need depth at the swing positions as well, but I think we can get something decent enough to round out the roster here at a short price.

Lineup:

Damp/Blount/DJ
Dirk/KVB/Powell
Pierce/Howard
Stack/Howard
Terry/???/Banks

What do you think?

Why would Boston take Finley when they could just keep Pierce? They both have three years left, Pierce is 4 years younger, makes slightly less than Finley, and is by far the superior player? If the Celtics are going the youth route they will not take on bad contracts. They want expiring contracts, good young prospects/players and draft picks plus the trading team will have to take either Raef or Blount or both. Any Pierce to Dallas trade that has Finley landing in Boston will be laughed at everywhere except here!

I think they are high on D. West, so the Celtics will ask for Howard first, not Harris, which we obviously don't want to do. I also think they ask for Terry before Harris. A package of KVH/Terry/PPod or DJ/future pick for Pierce/Raef is what it's going to take and that might not be enough to get him. We might have to take Blount too. I'm all on board for getting Pierce, but to get someone of his caliber we have to give up something in return.

chumdawg · 08-05-2005, 01:54 AM

Yes, you are probably right about that potential lineup. I didn't consider that part of it very carefully.

I'm just trying to divine something in the tea leaves of certain recent events. I found it interesting that evidently Earl Watson was first thought to be going to Boston as part of that mega-deal, but then the Celts backed out of that. They are pretty desperate for a solid PG. I imagine they would like to have a veteran, but maybe Harris is bluechip enough to pique their interest.

And then there is the thought that if Christie comes here, and if Rawle Marshall is signed, does Daniels become expendable?

On second thought, the Celts are probably higher on Reed than I was at first giving them credit for. But they are definitely wanting help at the 5 also, and they did just sign Scalabrine to play PF along with Jefferson. So I can see something in a Reed-for-Benga swap, depending on exactly how both teams feel about DJ.

I also just don't know exactly how much trade value Pierce will really have for them. A deal that nets them Harris and Daniels while relieving them of Blount would seem to be enough to take the downgrade from Pierce to Finley, especially if they like Benga's potential and the Mavs were willing to throw him in, too.

If nothing else, I might just be happy with Blount/Banks for TAW/Daniels, if Christie and Marshall are coming aboard. That fills two of our needs--though I'm not exactly sure how well.

chumdawg · 08-05-2005, 02:03 AM

Echo, the Celtics really, really need a 1 or a 5 or both. I'm sure if they get Tyson Chandler for Pierce they would jump all over it. But I don't think Chicago is ready to make that deal. You know of any other 5's who may be the same level player Pierce is, whose team would be willing to trade him? I don't.

If the Celts trade Pierce, a bluechip PG may well be the best they can do.

echo · 08-05-2005, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: chumdawg

I also just don't know exactly how much trade value Pierce will really have for them. A deal that nets them Harris and Daniels while relieving them of Blount would seem to be enough to take the downgrade from Pierce to Finley, especially if they like Benga's potential and the Mavs were willing to throw him in, too.

If nothing else, I might just be happy with Blount/Banks for TAW/Daniels, if Christie and Marshall are coming aboard. That fills two of our needs--though I'm not exactly sure how well.

I think Pierce has a lot since he's still in his prime. His contract will be up before his decline starts, unlike Finley. He's much more versatile than Finley. Pierce averaged 21.6 points on 14.9 shots a game. By comparison Finley averaged 15.7 points on 14.2 shots a game. Pierce shot 45.5%, Finely 42.7%. Pierce 6.6 rbs, Finley 4.1. Pierce 1.6 steals, Finley 0.8. Pierce 4.2 assists, Finley 2.6. Fin beats him on 3P% 40.7% to 37.0%. Throwing in Harris and Daniels for Blount and Banks isn't enough for them to take on Finley. If so I'm all over this trade.

As for Blount/Banks for TAW/Daniels? I would rather keep Daniels. Unless we are getting Pierce in a deal I don't want Blount or Raef with their contracts.

echo · 08-05-2005, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: chumdawg
Echo, the Celtics really, really need a 1 or a 5 or both. I'm sure if they get Tyson Chandler for Pierce they would jump all over it. But I don't think Chicago is ready to make that deal. You know of any other 5's who may be the same level player Pierce is, whose team would be willing to trade him? I don't.

If the Celts trade Pierce, a bluechip PG may well be the best they can do.

Well Chicago has some nice young 2/3's so they obviously wouldn't trade Chandler for Pierce, especially with Curry's physical condition. I would give up Howard for Chandler, but the Bulls wouldn't do it. I'm willing to package Harris and DJ or PPod in a deal for Pierce, but if they like West (and I think they do) I could see them wanting Terry instead.

Who may also be interested in Pierce? Sacremento discussed Peja (and more) for Pierce. The Clippers have offered Maggette and a 1st rounder for Pierce. I'm sure Jaric (S&T) or Wilcox could be used to sweeten a deal. Portland is interested. So is Indiana. Detroit. Denver where Nene would be part of the package. Lots of teams are interested which means Boston can wait for the best offer. I do think Pierce wants out though, so I expect him to be traded by the deadline at the latest.

Thespiralgoeson · 08-05-2005, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: echo
Who may also be interested in Pierce? Sacremento discussed Peja (and more) for Pierce. The Clippers have offered Maggette and a 1st rounder for Pierce. I'm sure Jaric (S&T) or Wilcox could be used to sweeten a deal. Portland is interested. So is Indiana. Detroit. Denver where Nene would be part of the package. Lots of teams are interested which means Boston can wait for the best offer. I do think Pierce wants out though, so I expect him to be traded by the deadline at the latest.

I could see the Clippers, Portland, or Denver landing him. Sacramento seems to have hope for Peja being their psuedo-franchise player, so I dont see the Kings trading him for Pierce. Detroit could land him for no other reason than that Boston would probably love to get their hands on Darko. Anyway, whatever happens, if Boston shops him, we need to make damn sure we get him. I can't stress this enough. Some folks on this board disagree, but I honestly think Pierce would put us over the top and past San Antonio. If a team like Denver, Indiana or Detroit landed him, I think they'd be favorites too. To make it work, we'd obviously have to take on Raef's or Blount's contract. I'd be reluctant to take on both of them, but in the end I probably would. If we did take on both of them AND throw in an expirer, I wouldn't be surprised if they took Fin; just to have a vet that can still go off for 20+ every now and then. If we agreed to take on both contracts, I'd say that almost guarantees the deal, because I'm very confident that no other team would be willing to. I agree that they might ask for Terry instead of Harris. However, I think Devin would be more appealing to them because Terry is what he is, whereas Devin may be a star one day (could be the future of their team) As Chum mentioned, they desperately need some youth and athleticism at the 5 spot; they might take Pavel, but I'm certain they'd love to get DJ. So I think a package of Harris/DJ/KVH/Daniels or a future pick would be enough to land Pierce. I'd say these are the most realistic possibilities. Either Devin or Terry would obviously be included in this deal, so I'll just say Devin for argument's sake, and you can switch his name with Terry's if you like.

Harris/DJ/KVH/Daniels or future pick for Pierce/Raef or Blount/West or Banks

or

Harris/DJ/KVH for Pierce/Raef or Blount

or

Harris/DJ/KVH/Finley/future pick for Pierce/Raef/Blount/West or Banks

or

Harris/DJ/KVH/Finley for Pierce/Raef/Blount

In any event, we give a lot, and take on some major salary, but I think Pierce is worth it.

Thespiralgoeson · 08-05-2005, 03:21 AM

If Boston REALLY doesn't budge, we COULD throw in Stack; they'd love another expirer no doubt. I think I'd be ok with that so long as we get Christie as our 6th man. Seems like an awful lot, but if that's what it takes... That being said, I would be absolutely shocked if Boston found a better deal for Pierce than Devin/KVH/Stack/DJ/future pick.

echo · 08-05-2005, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Thespiralgoeson

I could see the Clippers, Portland, or Denver landing him. Sacramento seems to have hope for Peja being their psuedo-franchise player, so I dont see the Kings trading him for Pierce. Detroit could land him for no other reason than that Boston would probably love to get their hands on Darko. Anyway, whatever happens, if Boston shops him, we need to make damn sure we get him. I can't stress this enough. Some folks on this board disagree, but I honestly think Pierce would put us over the top and past San Antonio. If a team like Denver, Indiana or Detroit landed him, I think they'd be favorites too. To make it work, we'd obviously have to take on Raef's or Blount's contract. I'd be reluctant to take on both of them, but in the end I probably would. If we did take on both of them AND throw in an expirer, I wouldn't be surprised if they took Fin; just to have a vet that can still go off for 20+ every now and then. If we agreed to take on both contracts, I'd say that almost guarantees the deal, because I'm very confident that no other team would be willing to. I agree that they might ask for Terry instead of Harris. However, I think Devin would be more appealing to them because Terry is what he is, whereas Devin may be a star one day (could be the future of their team) As Chum mentioned, they desperately need some youth and athleticism at the 5 spot; they might take Pavel, but I'm certain they'd love to get DJ. So I think a package of Harris/DJ/KVH/Daniels or a future pick would be enough to land Pierce. I'd say these are the most realistic possibilities. Either Devin or Terry would obviously be included in this deal, so I'll just say Devin for argument's sake, and you can switch his name with Terry's if you like.

In any event, we give a lot, and take on some major salary, but I think Pierce is worth it.

Yep I agree, landing Pierce would put almost any 2nd tier contender (Dallas, Detroit, Indy, and perhaps even Denver) right there with SA and Miami. Houston & Phoenix would love him too, but they don't have the pieces to land him without destroying their teams. Most of the other teams I mentioned do have a combination of young talent, emerging prospects, and expiring contracts to make a run for him without destroying their teams. I'm willing to give up a combination of anyone but Dirk and Howard to get him because I definitely think he's the perfect guy to play next to Dirk. The only reason I don't consider giving up Howard is because he's such a monster defensively at the SF (plus an excellent rebounder) and we need that since Dirk is not strong defensive player. Howard is a perfect fit for our system. Everyone else is available. KVH. Terry or Harris? Pick one Boston. Daniels or Stack? Pick one Boston. DJ or Pavel? Pick one Boston. Want TAW's contract? Take it. If they do take Terry we would need a better primary backup for Harris than DA or NVE (Payton for a year would work), we could bring Christie in cheap to backup the 2/3, and would get our backup center in Raef or Blount. As bad as his contract is, I would prefer Raef since he could backup the 4 & 5.

And if we could somehow get someone to take Finley in the process (3rd team?) then we make out like bandits.

dalmations202 · 08-05-2005, 08:57 AM

I know that Paul Pierce is a great player, but I would hesitate t ocall him the perfect guy to play next to Dirk. Who controls the paint <u>offensively</u>? Dirk can slash inside or shoot outside. Pierce can slash inside or shoot outside. Who controls the inside though, forcing teams to push out on perimeter defense, and move to drop for inside coverage?

SA wins because Ginobli is this same type of player, but TD controls the paint. Miami wins because Wade is this same type player, but Shaq controls the paint. Detroit wins with the Wallaces controlling the paint, and Rip being this type player. Indy wins with JO controlling the paint and Artest being the inside/outside guy. Houton wins, and is considered to be an up-n-comer because Yao controls the paint, and TMac is the slasher. Phoenix has Amare controlling the paint, and Marion/Nash as a slasher.

Putting Pierce in this lineup, just makes them have 2 inside/outside guys, and still no control over the paint - offensively. IMO, they really need a player that would "control the paint" offensively, and let Dirk be the slasher -- then surround them with defensive guys who are pure shooters.

Let's go back a little farther. Olahawon / Drexler - Houston. Shaq/Kobe - Lakers, Kareem/Magic and Worthy - Lakers, Parrish and McHale/Bird - Celtics, Malone/Dr. J - Sixers, Lambier and Rodman/Thomas - Detroit. Rodman and Longley / Jordan and Pippen.

I am not saying that Rodman, Lambier, Longley were scoring machines, but they controlled the paint on the offensive end and gathered many rebounds.

If Damp can control the paint, then Pierce might work wonderfully. I am not saying that it couldn't. I am only saying that historically to win it all, you need to control the paint offensively and outside of Jordan's Bulls and arguably Detroit, every team to win it all has had a dominant inside scoring presence over the last 25 years.

Now, who is available, that could be had, that controls the paint offensively.

Thespiralgoeson · 08-05-2005, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dalmations202
Now, who is available, that could be had, that controls the paint offensively.

Who indeed? I say getting Pierce would give us the best chance we could get at winning it all. But I digress...

Mavs414 · 08-05-2005, 03:36 PM

i love this trade cuz we get pierce and with him here i beleive we can win a title with him

D-town funkadellic · 08-05-2005, 04:03 PM

I don't want to win a title with Pierce. Then everyone will say "That wouldn't have happened if it weren't for Paul Pierce." I think we have a legitimate chance to take it all with the roster we have now,(which would be much more fulfilling) but thats just my opinion.

Thespiralgoeson · 08-05-2005, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: D-town funkadellic
I don't want to win a title with Pierce.

I do.

Lebanese_Fan · 08-05-2005, 04:12 PM

If i was a manager of any NBA team, i will never take fin's contract because I consider myself a guy with at least half a brain.

EricaLubarsky · 08-05-2005, 04:13 PM

I don't care if its Isaiah Rider, Roy Tarpley, Nick Van Exel of old, Ron Artest and Mike Tyson if we win a championship. I just worry about player personalities getting in the way of winning.

And I dont see ANY reason to believe that Paul Pierce will cause problems here. I just think its a pipedream.

Thespiralgoeson · 08-05-2005, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
I don't care if its Isaiah Rider, Roy Tarpley, Nick Van Exel of old, Ron Artest and Mike Tyson if we win a championship. I just worry about player personalities getting in the way of winning.

And I dont see ANY reason to believe that Paul Pierce will cause problems here. I just think its a pipedream.

I thought so too, but it's really just a question of whether Boston will trade him or not. I sounds absurd at first, but they just traded Walker. Of course they did, they were always going to, what's the point you ask? The point is, they traded Walker to Miami, a conference rival. And not just any conference rival. They've just made Miami the favorites to win it all next year. When you load your team with young players, and trade one of your two best players to a conference rival that was just one game away from the finals the previous season, that means you've given up on trying to contend. Seeing as how Pierce hated carrying that much load on his shoulders, was all too happy to have Antoine back, and that the Celts have all but given up on contending in the East, I'd actually be a bit surprised if he didn't ask to be traded. So, I think the idea of Boston shopping Pierce isn't a possibility but rather a probability. And if Boston does look to trade Paul, I think we've got as good a chance as any (better, really) at landing him. Sure, it's a longshot at best, but as far as all-star calibur players go, it's the best and most realistic possibility. At this point, we certainly have a better chance at landing Pierce than we do lesser players like Allen, Hughes, Redd, or JJ whom are already taken.

dalmations202 · 08-05-2005, 05:48 PM

Quote:

I don't care if its Isaiah Rider, Roy Tarpley, Nick Van Exel of old, Ron Artest and Mike Tyson if we win a championship. I just worry about player personalities getting in the way of winning.

And I dont see ANY reason to believe that Paul Pierce will cause problems here. I just think its a pipedream.

bingo

Nash13 · 08-07-2005, 09:40 AM

Memphis is reportedly interested in him. Can we beat a Wright/Battier/Miller deal?

Thespiralgoeson · 08-07-2005, 10:07 AM

I think a Terry or Harris/KVH/Stack/DJ deal might.

Lebanese_Fan · 08-07-2005, 05:49 PM

Battier/Miller: The grizz will be stupid if they trade both.

birdsanctuary · 08-11-2005, 07:32 PM

Personally I believe Ainge trades Pierce for Harris, TAW and Fin. He's clearly rebuilding and the piece he really needs is a young PG that's Harris, and he'll be a star. Fin makes sense because he'd provide some veteran leadership for the young guys and he's a class act. TAW would be a good filler piece and has some cap value.

The real debate should be is Pierce the piece that puts the Mavs over the top in the west. He is a great player, but is he a 2 or a 3. This very well may be Josh Howard's break through year... as an All Star. JHo needs to start at the 3. Honestly, I see Doug Christie being a better fit on this team than Pierce.

If Dallas can somehow keep Devin, and acquire Pierce than I'd say the future looks really bright: Still I don't see any way of doing this. I don't see any reasonable trade between Dallas and the Celts.

But WTH here is a trade just to keep the forum focused:
Dallas Rip Off Trade Breakdown
Outgoing

Michael Finley
6-7 SG from Wisconsin
15.7 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 2.6 apg in 36.8 minutes

Marquis Daniels
6-6 SG from Auburn
9.1 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 2.1 apg in 23.5 minutes

Incoming
Paul Pierce
6-6 SF from Kansas
21.6 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 4.2 apg in 36.1 minutes

Mark Blount
7-0 C from Pittsburgh
9.4 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.6 apg in 26.0 minutes

Justin Reed
6-8 SF from Mississippi
1.8 ppg, 0.7 rpg, 0.4 apg in 5.3 minutes
Change in team outlook: +8.0 ppg, +4.4 rpg, and +1.5 apg.

Boston Trade Breakdown
Outgoing

Paul Pierce
6-6 SF from Kansas
21.6 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 4.2 apg in 36.1 minutes

Mark Blount
7-0 C from Pittsburgh
9.4 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.6 apg in 26.0 minutes

Justin Reed
6-8 SF from Mississippi
1.8 ppg, 0.7 rpg, 0.4 apg in 5.3 minutes

Incoming
Michael Finley
6-7 SG from Wisconsin
15.7 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 2.6 apg in 36.8 minutes

Marquis Daniels
6-6 SG from Auburn
9.1 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 2.1 apg in 23.5 minutes
Change in team outlook: -8.0 ppg, -4.4 rpg, and -1.5 apg.

[b]Successful Scenario [\b]
Due to Dallas and Boston being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Dallas and Boston had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Trade ID
Every trade made by fans is allocated a unique Trade ID which you can share with friends and fellow basketball fans to allow them to see your trade scenario. The Trade ID for this scenario is 2537357.

birdsanctuary · 08-11-2005, 07:32 PM

Personally I believe Ainge trades Pierce for Harris, TAW and Fin. He's clearly rebuilding and the piece he really needs is a young PG that's Harris, and he'll be a star. Fin makes sense because he'd provide some veteran leadership for the young guys and he's a class act. TAW would be a good filler piece and has some cap value.

The real debate should be is Pierce the piece that puts the Mavs over the top in the west. He is a great player, but is he a 2 or a 3. This very well may be Josh Howard's break through year... as an All Star. JHo needs to start at the 3. Honestly, I see Doug Christie being a better fit on this team than Pierce.

If Dallas can somehow keep Devin, and acquire Pierce than I'd say the future looks really bright: Still I don't see any way of doing this. I don't see any reasonable trade between Dallas and the Celts.

But WTH here is a trade just to keep the forum focused:
Dallas Rip Off Trade Breakdown
Outgoing

Michael Finley
6-7 SG from Wisconsin
15.7 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 2.6 apg in 36.8 minutes

Marquis Daniels
6-6 SG from Auburn
9.1 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 2.1 apg in 23.5 minutes

Incoming
Paul Pierce
6-6 SF from Kansas
21.6 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 4.2 apg in 36.1 minutes

Mark Blount
7-0 C from Pittsburgh
9.4 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.6 apg in 26.0 minutes

Justin Reed
6-8 SF from Mississippi
1.8 ppg, 0.7 rpg, 0.4 apg in 5.3 minutes
Change in team outlook: +8.0 ppg, +4.4 rpg, and +1.5 apg.

Boston Trade Breakdown
Outgoing

Paul Pierce
6-6 SF from Kansas
21.6 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 4.2 apg in 36.1 minutes

Mark Blount
7-0 C from Pittsburgh
9.4 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.6 apg in 26.0 minutes

Justin Reed
6-8 SF from Mississippi
1.8 ppg, 0.7 rpg, 0.4 apg in 5.3 minutes

Incoming
Michael Finley
6-7 SG from Wisconsin
15.7 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 2.6 apg in 36.8 minutes

Marquis Daniels
6-6 SG from Auburn
9.1 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 2.1 apg in 23.5 minutes
Change in team outlook: -8.0 ppg, -4.4 rpg, and -1.5 apg.

[b]Successful Scenario [\b]
Due to Dallas and Boston being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Dallas and Boston had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Trade ID
Every trade made by fans is allocated a unique Trade ID which you can share with friends and fellow basketball fans to allow them to see your trade scenario. The Trade ID for this scenario is 2537357.

Thespiralgoeson · 08-11-2005, 08:18 PM

Boston is looking to rebuild and cut payroll. I can't see them taking on Fin's contract, but it's worth a shot. And they already have two young points in West and Banks, so if we give them Harris, they'll have to part with one of them. I aslo don't think Boston would do the deal if we didn't throw in KVH or Stack.

Quote:

The real debate should be is Pierce the piece that puts the Mavs over the top in the west. He is a great player, but is he a 2 or a 3. This very well may be Josh Howard's break through year... as an All Star. JHo needs to start at the 3.

Huh? That's not the "real" debate. That's hardly even a debate at all. If your question is if he would put us past the Spurs, then that's debateable, but if you're asking if we'd be a better team with him, than that's just a stupid question. "He is a great player, but is he a 2 or a 3. " Pierce has 3 pt. range and great ball-handling/passing skills, so I don't see what the problem would be with him playing 2... This might be Josh's break-out year, but are you counting on it? I'm not. Besides, I don't see how Pierce being here would prevent that from happening. Hell, if PP were here, Josh would go INSANE in the lanes, slashing all over the place. Seriously, Dirk and Pierce would always draw the defense, and leave Howard unchecked.

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Honestly, I see Doug Christie being a better fit on this team than Pierce

I want both of them... But let me get this straight, you think Doug Christie would give us a better shot at the championship than Paul Pierce? WTF?

Edit: Boston also desperately needs some athleticism at the 5 spot, so I don't think this deal works without DJ or Pavel. I've been trying to think of a 3-team deal with Chicago in which Boston gets Curry or Chandler (probably Curry) but I haven't thought of one yet.

Thespiralgoeson · 08-11-2005, 08:18 PM

Boston is looking to rebuild and cut payroll. I can't see them taking on Fin's contract, but it's worth a shot. And they already have two young points in West and Banks, so if we give them Harris, they'll have to part with one of them. I aslo don't think Boston would do the deal if we didn't throw in KVH or Stack.

Quote:

The real debate should be is Pierce the piece that puts the Mavs over the top in the west. He is a great player, but is he a 2 or a 3. This very well may be Josh Howard's break through year... as an All Star. JHo needs to start at the 3.

Huh? That's not the "real" debate. That's hardly even a debate at all. If your question is if he would put us past the Spurs, then that's debateable, but if you're asking if we'd be a better team with him, than that's just a stupid question. "He is a great player, but is he a 2 or a 3. " Pierce has 3 pt. range and great ball-handling/passing skills, so I don't see what the problem would be with him playing 2... This might be Josh's break-out year, but are you counting on it? I'm not. Besides, I don't see how Pierce being here would prevent that from happening. Hell, if PP were here, Josh would go INSANE in the lanes, slashing all over the place. Seriously, Dirk and Pierce would always draw the defense, and leave Howard unchecked.

Quote:

Honestly, I see Doug Christie being a better fit on this team than Pierce

I want both of them... But let me get this straight, you think Doug Christie would give us a better shot at the championship than Paul Pierce? WTF?

Edit: Boston also desperately needs some athleticism at the 5 spot, so I don't think this deal works without DJ or Pavel. I've been trying to think of a 3-team deal with Chicago in which Boston gets Curry or Chandler (probably Curry) but I haven't thought of one yet.

chumdawg · 08-11-2005, 10:02 PM

I don't think Boston is a payroll-cutting mode. They're doing okay right now. You must bear in mind that Ainge is apparently feverishly working toward building a team with a great deal of potential, and the birdsanctuary correctly points out that he needs a PG to comfortably do that. I have long believed that Harris is a valuable enough chip to make a point-guard-starved team bite. Where else you gonna get a young PG with that much potential?

It is probably fair to say that Terry is a better player than West or Banks. It is also safe to say that Boston does not see Banks as part of the future. They didn't even take him to summer league!

There is an excellent match to be made here, but only if Pierce does not command a better deal in the trade market. But think about it: who is willing to give up a blue-chip 1 or 5 for Paul Pierce? Memphis would desperately love to have him, but they have neither commodity. Other bluechippers aren't going anywhere. I really do think that the Mavs would part with Harris if it would help their team in the short run. This is a match made in heaven.

I don't know what kind of bridges Finley built in Phoenix, but Ainge did coach him at one point. I'm keeping my eyes on this situation.

chumdawg · 08-11-2005, 10:02 PM

I don't think Boston is a payroll-cutting mode. They're doing okay right now. You must bear in mind that Ainge is apparently feverishly working toward building a team with a great deal of potential, and the birdsanctuary correctly points out that he needs a PG to comfortably do that. I have long believed that Harris is a valuable enough chip to make a point-guard-starved team bite. Where else you gonna get a young PG with that much potential?

It is probably fair to say that Terry is a better player than West or Banks. It is also safe to say that Boston does not see Banks as part of the future. They didn't even take him to summer league!

There is an excellent match to be made here, but only if Pierce does not command a better deal in the trade market. But think about it: who is willing to give up a blue-chip 1 or 5 for Paul Pierce? Memphis would desperately love to have him, but they have neither commodity. Other bluechippers aren't going anywhere. I really do think that the Mavs would part with Harris if it would help their team in the short run. This is a match made in heaven.

I don't know what kind of bridges Finley built in Phoenix, but Ainge did coach him at one point. I'm keeping my eyes on this situation.

Thespiralgoeson · 08-11-2005, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: chumdawg
I don't think Boston is a payroll-cutting mode. They're doing okay right now. You must bear in mind that Ainge is apparently feverishly working toward building a team with a great deal of potential, and the birdsanctuary correctly points out that he needs a PG to comfortably do that. I have long believed that Harris is a valuable enough chip to make a point-guard-starved team bite. Where else you gonna get a young PG with that much potential?

As you said, Ainge is building a team with great potential, so by that logic, Harris would probably be more appealing to them than Terry. Although, Terry is a quality point now, so they might want him instead.

Quote:

There is an excellent match to be made here, but only if Pierce does not command a better deal in the trade market. But think about it: who is willing to give up a blue-chip 1 or 5 for Paul Pierce? Memphis would desperately love to have him, but they have neither commodity. Other bluechippers aren't going anywhere. I really do think that the Mavs would part with Harris if it would help their team in the short run. This is a match made in heaven.

I agree. If Boston does shop Pierce, then I'd say we have a better chance than any at landing him, because we have pieces that fit their needs; a young point with tremendous potential, a couple of big expirers, and a two prospect centers. However, it's simply a matter of whether Boston will trade him or not. Ainge will probably just hold on to him for now to keep the team moderately competitive until the youngsters can take over. However, it seems very clear that Pierce is unhappy in Boston and has no desire to spend the rest of his career there. But it is as you say, a match made in heaven. We have exactly what they need, and on top of that, we need the one thing they're desperately trying to get rid of, a backup center (Blount or LaFrentz, probably Blount). Really, the vast majority of NBA trades make less sense than this one. This one is beneficial to both teams, fits both team's needs... It's just a question of whether Ainge is willing to let the Celtics tank for a couple of seasons before the youngsters can carry the team. Either way, that team isn't going to contend for at least a few years, when Pierce will be past his prime.

EDIT: Denver could also be our competition for Pierce. They need a 2 and might give up Miller and Nene for him. I'm sure Boston would love to Nene. Miller's not young, but he's a damn good PG, certainly a much better option than Payton. He's also a vet that could be valuble to them. Not sure if the Nuggets would be willing to take Blount or Raef though.

Thespiralgoeson · 08-11-2005, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: chumdawg
I don't think Boston is a payroll-cutting mode. They're doing okay right now. You must bear in mind that Ainge is apparently feverishly working toward building a team with a great deal of potential, and the birdsanctuary correctly points out that he needs a PG to comfortably do that. I have long believed that Harris is a valuable enough chip to make a point-guard-starved team bite. Where else you gonna get a young PG with that much potential?

As you said, Ainge is building a team with great potential, so by that logic, Harris would probably be more appealing to them than Terry. Although, Terry is a quality point now, so they might want him instead.

Quote:

There is an excellent match to be made here, but only if Pierce does not command a better deal in the trade market. But think about it: who is willing to give up a blue-chip 1 or 5 for Paul Pierce? Memphis would desperately love to have him, but they have neither commodity. Other bluechippers aren't going anywhere. I really do think that the Mavs would part with Harris if it would help their team in the short run. This is a match made in heaven.

I agree. If Boston does shop Pierce, then I'd say we have a better chance than any at landing him, because we have pieces that fit their needs; a young point with tremendous potential, a couple of big expirers, and a two prospect centers. However, it's simply a matter of whether Boston will trade him or not. Ainge will probably just hold on to him for now to keep the team moderately competitive until the youngsters can take over. However, it seems very clear that Pierce is unhappy in Boston and has no desire to spend the rest of his career there. But it is as you say, a match made in heaven. We have exactly what they need, and on top of that, we need the one thing they're desperately trying to get rid of, a backup center (Blount or LaFrentz, probably Blount). Really, the vast majority of NBA trades make less sense than this one. This one is beneficial to both teams, fits both team's needs... It's just a question of whether Ainge is willing to let the Celtics tank for a couple of seasons before the youngsters can carry the team. Either way, that team isn't going to contend for at least a few years, when Pierce will be past his prime.

EDIT: Denver could also be our competition for Pierce. They need a 2 and might give up Miller and Nene for him. I'm sure Boston would love to Nene. Miller's not young, but he's a damn good PG, certainly a much better option than Payton. He's also a vet that could be valuble to them. Not sure if the Nuggets would be willing to take Blount or Raef though.

alby · 08-11-2005, 10:43 PM

It all depends on how many wins Ainge is going for this coming season. Paul Pierce could be the difference from a 20 win to a 40 win season for them.

alby · 08-11-2005, 10:43 PM

It all depends on how many wins Ainge is going for this coming season. Paul Pierce could be the difference from a 20 win to a 40 win season for them.

chumdawg · 08-11-2005, 11:00 PM

Spiral, I agree with you completely that the competition for Pierce will be fierce. I tend to think that you are closer to the truth than not in pointing out Denver as a possibility. They'd love him, that's for sure. He instantly puts them in the upper echelon in the West. If he's going west, Denver is our main competitor.

chumdawg · 08-11-2005, 11:00 PM

Spiral, I agree with you completely that the competition for Pierce will be fierce. I tend to think that you are closer to the truth than not in pointing out Denver as a possibility. They'd love him, that's for sure. He instantly puts them in the upper echelon in the West. If he's going west, Denver is our main competitor.

Thespiralgoeson · 08-11-2005, 11:28 PM

I'm trying to think what would be a better deal for Boston:

Pierce/Blount for Miller/Nene/Lenard

or

Pierce/Blount for Harris/KVH/DJ

Again, I don't know if Denver would be willing to take on Blount's contract, but their payroll's relatively low, and they don't have any terribly bad contracts, so I'm assuming they would. And, as I've stated in the past, I'd also be willing to throw in Stack if Boston wanted. In that case, Harris/Stack/KVH/DJ seems like a pretty sweet deal for Boston. Denver's a real question mark though, not sure how much they'd be willing to give or take.

Thespiralgoeson · 08-11-2005, 11:28 PM

I'm trying to think what would be a better deal for Boston:

Pierce/Blount for Miller/Nene/Lenard

or

Pierce/Blount for Harris/KVH/DJ

Again, I don't know if Denver would be willing to take on Blount's contract, but their payroll's relatively low, and they don't have any terribly bad contracts, so I'm assuming they would. And, as I've stated in the past, I'd also be willing to throw in Stack if Boston wanted. In that case, Harris/Stack/KVH/DJ seems like a pretty sweet deal for Boston. Denver's a real question mark though, not sure how much they'd be willing to give or take.

alby · 08-12-2005, 04:19 AM

they rather have harris

alby · 08-12-2005, 04:19 AM

they rather have harris

Thespiralgoeson · 08-12-2005, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: alby
they rather have harris

Maybe, but I certainly wouldn't be too sure about that. They already have two young points and are in desperate need of a serviceable PG. Even if they'd rather have Harris than Miller, I'm sure they'd rather have Nene than DJ. The one thing we have going for us is a big expirer in KVH.

echo · 08-12-2005, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Thespiralgoeson
I'm trying to think what would be a better deal for Boston:

Pierce/Blount for Miller/Nene/Lenard

or

Pierce/Blount for Harris/KVH/DJ

Again, I don't know if Denver would be willing to take on Blount's contract, but their payroll's relatively low, and they don't have any terribly bad contracts, so I'm assuming they would. And, as I've stated in the past, I'd also be willing to throw in Stack if Boston wanted. In that case, Harris/Stack/KVH/DJ seems like a pretty sweet deal for Boston. Denver's a real question mark though, not sure how much they'd be willing to give or take.

If I'm Boston I take the Denver deal easily. They get two starters and Lenard is expiring. Nene has some skills and has quite a bit of value. Miller could easily be moved.