Finley among three Mavs now nursing ankles

[akaarod03]

Finley among three Mavs now nursing ankles

10:08 PM CST on Tuesday, November 9, 2004


By EDDIE SEFKO / The Dallas Morning News



ORLANDO – It would be OK to call the Mavericks the walking wounded, except that one of them couldn't walk.

Michael Finley became the latest in a strikingly long line of ankle injuries when he sprained his right ankle with 7:48 to go in the third quarter of Tuesday's 94-84 loss to Orlando. After limping to the locker room, he left TD Waterhouse Centre on crutches.

Coach Don Nelson called the injury a second-degree sprain. Marquis Daniels could not play basketball for nearly three months after a third-degree sprain suffered in the off-season.

And there is more bad news. While Daniels remains rusty, Josh Howard twisted his left ankle in the first quarter and Dirk Nowitzki reported that bone spurs in his right ankle have acted up during the last two games.

Add it up and the Mavericks barely have a leg to stand on.

"That's four of 'em," Nelson said. "We have our fill of ankle sprains."

Finley's appears to be the most severe. He's been ruled out of Thursday's game at Miami and there is a chance he will be sent home before the trip continues at New Jersey and Washington.

"It's always frustrating when you're not able to help your teammates," Finley said. "I've rolled it like that before, but after I ran back after the free throws, I knew it wasn't right. I just want to get back as soon as I can."

Finley stepped on Hedo Turkoglu's foot while driving to the basket.

Nowitzki, meanwhile, said the problem with his right ankle is similar to the problem in his left ankle that required surgery three summers ago.

"I think one of those spurs is a little irritated," he said. "It was sore before (Monday's) game and afterward it swelled up. If this only happens once or twice a year, it's OK. I don't want to have surgery if I don't have to."

Nowitzki considered not playing Tuesday and ended up shooting just 5-of-16 from the field, netting 20 points.

Not firing blanks: Don Nelson likes to talk about a six-shooter he starts each season with. He figures there's only a half-dozen times when he can go into the locker room and chew out his team.

If he yells any more than that, the players tend to treat it like he's crying wolf.

Nelson said, "I didn't feel like I used up a whole bullet," on Monday night when he challenged his team at the break against Golden State. Nelson was miffed that the Mavericks had gotten off to a poor start in consecutive games.

Holey-moly: There was a hole in the wall of the visiting locker room at TD Waterhouse Centre. It was strangely similar to the size of a large fist.

Shawn Bradley had to give it an examination.

"It was a center, definitely," he said, noting that the size of the punch was similar to the size of his balled-up fist.

Then he noticed another small nick in the wall just below the big hole.

"That must have been a sportswriter," he said.

Briefly: Marquis Daniels needed to round up 31 tickets for Tuesday's game to fulfill the requests of family and friends in the Orlando area, where he grew up. ... Which NBA player has a Batman tattoo on his left bicep? Orlando's Tony Battie, formerly of Texas Tech. ... Though they came in with the same rookie class, Devin Harris said he didn't know much about Orlando rookie Jameer Nelson. "I just know he was one of the last ones in the green room at the draft," Harris said. That's a bad thing. Nobody wants to sit back there while everybody else's name gets called." ... Count ESPN's Greg Anthony among those jumping on the Mavericks' bandwagon. He said recently that the Mavericks are a team that "could really dethrone" the Spurs as Texas' best team. "Potentially, this team could be the best in Texas when it's all said and done," Anthony said.

[Drbio]

Aw crap...this is horrible news.

[MavsFanFinley]

Send Finley home now. Don't let him or the coaching staff be tempted to play him on this road trip.

I don't even want to think about the bone spurs in Dirk's right ankle.

Not good news for Howard either. The hamstring, knee, and now the ankle will be giving him fits.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally posted by: MavsFanFinley
Send Finley home now. Don't let him or the coaching staff be tempted to play him on this road trip.

agreed.

[akaarod03]

So who do you insert in the starting lineup? A rusty Daniels? Or a struggling Stackhouse? Give me Daniels. He played 30 minutes tonight...was 7-17 from the field...and I would say half of those misses were layups. He's not a 100%...but an 80% Daniels is better than the way Stackhouse is currently playing.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Damn. How in the hell do all four have ankle problems? It's like a game ago as a fan i'm on top of the world. A game later and 4 of our key players have the same injury.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Another thing we are gonna struggle with is shooting. I don't know what to expect on Thursday. Hopefully not an assault.

[MavsFanFinley]

So who do you insert in the starting lineup?

I would start Daniels for now. While I'm not impressed with his play yet, it's better than what Stackhouse has been giving.

More importantly--BOTH--will have to step up their games in Finley's absence and with Howard hobbling too.

[u2sarajevo]

Que lastima!

[4cwebb]

While Finley's injury is not good news, Dirk's sounds a bit worse. If it's swelling up already this season, he's in for a long season. How long did it take him to recover from his surgery on the other ankle (did it say in the article)?

[dirno2000]

Originally posted by: 4cwebb
While Finley's injury is not good news, Dirk's sounds a bit worse. If it's swelling up already this season, he's in for a long season. How long did it take him to recover from his surgery on the other ankle (did it say in the article)?

Since it was off season sugery, I don't know what his recovery time was, but there didn't seem to be any lingering effects when the season started. If I remember correctly, that's the year we started 14-0 and Dirk had his best season. It's something he's just going to have to deal with this season.

[FilthyFinMavs]

I sure hope we sit out whoever is nursing injuries. It's better to have them sit out at the beginning of the season than in the middle or the end. We can get some losses out the way early rather than when they really count.

[MavsFanFinley]

Finley sidelined with sprained right ankle

By Art Garcia
Star-Telegram Staff Writer

ORLANDO, Fla. - Mavericks guard Michael Finley will be sidelined for an indefinite period of time after spraining his right ankle in Tuesday night's 94-84 loss against the Orlando Magic at TD Waterhouse Centre.

Finley's injury wasn't the only one the Mavs dealt with while losing their first game of the season.

Dirk Nowitzki nearly sat out the game after experiencing swelling in his right ankle because of bone spurs. Josh Howard suffered a less serious left ankle sprain less than two minutes into the game but was able to return and play 31 minutes.

Finley, the team's second-leading scorer, was driving to the basket when he stepped on the left foot of Magic forward Hedo Turkoglu with 7:29 left in the third quarter. Finley's right ankle gave and he fell to the floor.

After the stoppage in play, he was able to walk under his own power and shoot two free throws. But he checked out of the game after that and went to the locker room to begin receiving treatment. X-rays revealed a second-degree sprain but no additional damage.

"I rolled it like that before and I played through it," said Finley, who finished with eight points in 20 minutes. "But this time, after I shot free throws, I knew it wasn't the same."

Finley has been sidelined by hamstring, calf and toe injuries at various times during the past three seasons. The Mavs' medical staff is considering sending him back to Dallas for further treatment instead of remaining with the team for the last three games of the four-game trip.

"[Injuries are] always frustrating, whether I'm playing good or bad," Finley said. "Just to be unable to help the team, I feel helpless. I'm just trying to get back as soon as I can."

Marquis Daniels will start in Finley's absence.

Nowitzki began feeling discomfort in his ankle after Monday night's 101-98 overtime win against Golden State. He had bone spurs removed from his left ankle three years ago and had considered similar surgery for his right ankle.

"If it only bothers me once a year, I don't think it's that big a deal," Nowitzki said.

Howard is worried his ankle injury could jeopardize his availability for Thursday's game at Miami.

"I hope not," said Howard, who grabbed 11 rebounds but missed all eight of his shots. "It's real sore. I just don't want to hurt it later on."

He can ask Daniels for advice. Daniels is still playing on a sprained left ankle that is far from 100 percent.

[The Miles]

Blessing in disguise? This could be what Marquis has been needing to shake the rust and build his confidence.

I just hope Dirk stays healthy, that would be a big time blow to this team obviously.

[Dirkenstien]

that article hurts... and im pretty worried about Dirk's ankles.

We may all be in for a long season if this continues

[kidd's mavs]

if they need to rest dirk, there should be no hesitation. I would rather lose Dirk for a couple of games than see him fall apart midway through the season. however much time he needs to rest his ankles, I say they give it to him. don't even risk it!

[FreshJive]

Finley was really looking good so far, too. sigh.....

[chumdawg]

Nellie told Norm Finley was going home and could miss as much as two weeks. (I think that's what he said, as far as the time goes.) Daniels starts.

[EricaLubarsky]

Not to pat myself on the back, but when I saw Finley go down, I estimated 2-3 weeks and that sounds true.

It really sucks to be right about that. I was hoping that I was wrong.

Anyway, Daniels may be nursing his ankle too, but he looked bad mentally more than physically. He just flinched going up, and he seemed hesitant getting back. His forward speed was excellent. I couldnt judge his lateral speed since everyone was playing such pokey defense. He looked pretty slow but thats hopefully just the sleep thing.

[kg_veteran]

Dirk's injury doesn't sound serious to me. He's had these problems with his ankles for a while now. He'll play through it.

As for Fin, it might be a blessing in disguise. It will allow Daniels to get back up to speed, Stackhouse to try to bring his game up to speed, and perhaps even more playing time for Devin Harris as a result.

[grndmstr_c]

I wonder if we might activate Dickau and send Fin to the IL for a stretch?

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
I wonder if we might activate Dickau and send Fin to the IL for a stretch?

Back to NVE-style small-ball! Harris/Dick at point, Daniels and Terry at the two. Stack at the three.

I dont know if I like that defensively at all.

[kg_veteran]

Even if activated, Dickau isn't going to play at all unless there are further injuries. Even without Finley, the Mavs will play Stackhouse, Daniels, and Howard all of the SG and SF minutes and Terry and Harris all of the PG minutes. And hell, they might even be forced to play a center 48 minutes every single night for a while.

[EricaLubarsky]

Howard needs a couple of days off doesnt he? If he is out, then that leaves us with only Stack and Daniels, who is recovering from a very severe ankle sprain.

BTW, it is absolutely wrong to think that Finley has a third degree sprain. While researching Daniels' condition, I discovered that 3rd degree sprains are when the tendon actually tears. That means that he would not be getting up. He'd be on crutches for weeks and his ankle would be wrapped up. I saw Finley get up, run and shoot FTs. That might not have been good for him, but he was able to which is the point.

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
Howard needs a couple of days off doesnt he? If he is out, then that leaves us with only Stack and Daniels, who is recovering from a very severe ankle sprain.

BTW, it is absolutely wrong to think that Finley has a third degree sprain. While researching Daniels' condition, I discovered that 3rd degree sprains are when the tendon actually tears. That means that he would not be getting up. He'd be on crutches for weeks and his ankle would be wrapped up. I saw Finley get up, run and shoot FTs. That might not have been good for him, but he was able to which is the point.

Have you ever had a torn tendon in your ankle? I tore a tendon in my right ankle while playing in an 8th grade basketball game. I was definitely able to 'get up'.

A lady at my office had multiple tears in her ankle while at work and she finished out the day. She walked around on it all day until around 8 o'clock at night. Yes, she did eventually end up going to the ER later in the day.

What's the point? The point is that it isn't necessarily an intelligent thing to throw out generalizations and blanket statements about injuries one way or the other.

I've seen a high school fullback tear an ACL one week and suit up to play the next week. I've seen a high school QB break a collarbone one week and suit up to play the following week as well. Was it an intelligent thing to do? No, of course not. But, it happened.

Regardless, to say that a player wouldn't be getting up after tearing a tendon in their ankle just isn't an intelligent blanket statement to throw out. I hope that it's not a 3rd degree sprain or whatever, but let's just tap the breaks and see what comes out here in the next day or two.

Also, please don't alternately use 3rd degree sprain and torn tendon interchangeably.

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky


BTW, it is absolutely wrong to think that Finley has a third degree sprain. While researching Daniels' condition, I discovered that 3rd degree sprains are when the tendon actually tears. That means that he would not be getting up. He'd be on crutches for weeks and his ankle would be wrapped up. I saw Finley get up, run and shoot FTs. That might not have been good for him, but he was able to which is the point.

AND, the last time I checked, doesn't having a 3rd degree sprain actually involve the tearing of certain ligaments? It looks a bit like you're confusing ligaments and tendons.

Anyways, for a very brief explanation of a third degree ankle sprain, go here.

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky


BTW, it is absolutely wrong to think that Finley has a third degree sprain. While researching Daniels' condition, I discovered that 3rd degree sprains are when the tendon actually tears. That means that he would not be getting up.

Wrong in so many ways....should we go back over this?

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
BTW, it is absolutely wrong to think that Finley has a third degree sprain. While researching Daniels' condition, I discovered that 3rd degree sprains are when the tendon actually tears. That means that he would not be getting up.

Bump for Erica

[sike]

"If it only bothers me once a year, I don't think it's that big a deal," Nowitzki said.

if this is more than just optimism, Dirk does not seem worried.
The Finley injury could actually help this team in the long run, getting Daniels back into his groove and allowing Dirk a few more attempts a game. For some reason everyone seems ok with the fact that Fin is taking nearly the same ammount of shots as Dirk...I am not. Dirk needs to get around 20 shots a game and as far as I'm concerned, dispite his good % those can come from Finley taking a few less.

I'll go on the record as predicting Dirk(if healthy) will seriously step up his game with Finley out.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: sike

if this is more than just optimism, Dirk does not seem worried.
The Finley injury could actually help this team in the long run, getting Daniels back into his groove and allowing Dirk a few more attempts a game. For some reason everyone seems ok with the fact that Fin is taking nearly the same ammount of shots as Dirk...I am not. Dirk needs to get around 20 shots a game and as far as I'm concerned, dispite his good % those can come from Finley taking a few less.

I'll go on the record as predicting Dirk(if healthy) will seriously step up his game with Finley out.

I'd have a problem with Fin's shot attempts if it was hurting the team but it isn't. I guess we hav eto blame something on Fin but his shot attempts definately shouldn't be one being he is our 2nd best scorer on this team. If Terry, Stack or Daniels will step up their offensive game i'd agree that Fin does need to lower his shots but so far that hasn't happened.

[grndmstr_c]

In defense of Fin, he hasn't been attempting to score quite as much as Dirk (.51 scoring attempts per minute as compared to .55 for Dirk, those numbers take free throws into account, btw). Still, he's clearly been looking for his shot more than anyone else on the team other than Dirk. Up until the GS game he'd been shooting well enough to deserve being the second banana, but in general it will be important that every player on the team other than Dirk, and this goes double for Fin because of his seniority, really commit to passing the ball around.

[sike]

C said: really commit to passing the ball around.

I agree with this, but I still want to see a concerted effort to get Dirk more shots.

[sike]

In defense of Fin, he hasn't been attempting to score quite as much as Dirk (.51 scoring attempts per minute as compared to .55 for Dirk, those numbers take free throws into account, btw).

in your mind, knowing that Fin's shooting % will(and has the last two games) come down to Earth, do you really feel that this statistic should be so close, considering Dirk has shot 29 more free throws than Finley?

[u2sarajevo]

Did anyone hear Nellie on with Norm this morning? He said Dirk's "injury" was the least concern of all the ankle issues. And he confirmed that Fin will be out at least two weeks... maybe more.

I think Dirk's ankles become an issue at the start of each year... and then fade away with each dominant performance.

[sike]

he said it was a second degree sprain and possibly a third degree sprain...which is what Quis had

[sike]

I had a tear in a highschool hoops game, and that sucker swelled up like a baseball pretty fast....I still have scar tissue from that sprain...but different body's react differently to this type of injury. Some might be spralled on the floor while others may have the pain tolerance to get back up and tough it out....

[EricaLubarsky]

Grade 2 and 3 sprains both have tears. Grade three tears are usually much more severe and leave the joint "lax"

I dont claim to be a doctor, but I'm not going to take Murphy's word for it after researching it across five medical websites, especially since he only provided anecdotal evidence that used the generic word "tear" without talking about the grade.

The point is that it isn't necessarily an intelligent thing to throw out generalizations and blanket statements about injuries one way or the other.

throwing out anecdotes without research and evidence other than anecdotal ones isnt necessarily intelligent either.

I'll step aside if a doctor comes forward who knows about the subject but as it is, grade-specific information from medical websites and online journals trumps any anecdotal evidence that fails to specifically address the grades of sprains (tear severity). Third degree sprains leave the joint unable to bear weight, the sprain often causes damage to the nerves so pain is minimal, and the area itself becomes discolored. That is the information that is confirmed across many websites and the first part makes me highly doubt that Finley could have played for 3-4 minutes and shot the ball with a grade three sprain.

[Murphy3]

Can you show me where in your vast research it stated that when a basketball player suffers a 3rd degree sprain that they do not get up oh great EricaLubarsky?

[EricaLubarsky]

Oh great Murphy, there is nothing that says that a player can't get up. In fact I did not look at any basketball-specific websites. I have found evidence that rigorous activity after such a severe sprain would be unlikely.

I guess since you are playing the devil's advocate, I have the duty to provide evidence and not you. Doesnt sound right but here goes.

arthroscopy.com specifically states that Grade III sprains are classified thusly because

instability has resulted

Finley played solid basketball for a few minutes out there.

PHYSICIAN AND SPORTSMEDICINE journal states that the recovery period for a grade three sprain has a recovery time of

5-8 wk with optimal rehab

Dallas has said that Finleywill only be out for a couple of weeks. That fits with the evidence that the site has for 1st and 2nd grade sprains.

ePodiatry.com describes a grade three sprain with the following

Total rupture of a ligament - there is a loss of motion
Gross instability of the joint - joint function is lost
Severe pain initially followed by no pain

www.sportsinjuryclinic.net echoes that analysis

Rice University describes a third degree sprain as

complete tear of the affected ligament (very loose)

I didnt see the laxity

[EricaLubarsky]

AND, the last time I checked, doesn't having a 3rd degree sprain actually involve the tearing of certain ligaments? It looks a bit like you're confusing ligaments and tendons.

you are correct. I used the wrong word.