Lebron

[alby]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

The point total (48) in itself has very little to do with it. It's the fact that he scored every point for his team from the eight-minute mark on, and that he basically singlehandedly overcame a very good defensive team on their own home floor. And that they would have been facing almost certain elimination, you would think, if they had lost the game.

Dirk's game was a brilliant one, to be sure. But the circumstances were not quite the same.

The Mavericks were down 70-77 late in the 3rd quarter. Dirk then precedes to score 25 in the next 15 minutes to help blow out the Suns.

[alby]

I think with JET, Josh Howard, Stack, etc on the floor--it makes it even more incredible. He literally said gtfo of my way, I'm taking over. Whereas, Lebron has noone and IS the first option, second option, third option, fourth option, and fifth option.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

"More time to drop less points" might be something of a misnomer. I don't have a box score in front of me. What was the final score of the game? LeBron may have scored more points per team possession than Dirk did. I'm just guess here...figuring that the Mavs and Suns were inclined to play at a faster pace than the Cavs and Pistons.

But again, I don't think it matters much what the actual points-scored numbers were. What, evidently, you had last night was a case of the entire rest of Lebron's team not being much of an offensive threat and Lebron having to put them on his back, so to speak. Often in the recent past, the Mavs have been in a situation where if one guy's not scoring a load that night the other one is. Think Terry going off for thirty-point games. Think back to Finley and Van Exel doing the same. Of think about the Suns scoring big with either Amare or Nash when they played against us.

Clearly--at least to me--Lebron was in a markedly different situation last night.

I don't say any of this to diminish Dirk's brilliant game last year. I'm just saying that it is entirely understandable why someone would be inclined to put Lebron's game among the all-time great performances.

Yes, it was a different situation... congrats on stating the obvious. However, just because it was a different situation does not mean that it was any more impressive. I really don't see a reason to call it any more impressive than what Dirk did other than the fact that it was LeBron that did it... Some might look at the Phoenix game last year and think that it wasn't a close game so it's not as impressive.. but, those that watched the game know how crucial the points were... how close the Mavs were to letting it slide away in the WCFinals.

[MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs]

Lebron did it while being black. Therefore due to affirmative action, it was a better performance than Dirk.

End of discussion.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Tokey41

Both performances were great, the difference is Lebron did it this year and he's the NBA's baby... so its going down as one of the greatest performances ever.

Dirks 50 point night against Phoenix in regulation just isn't the same because the game wasn't close... you know why it wasn't close? Because Dirk made sure it didn't get close. The Mavs were behind for a while in that game and Dirk made sure they kept they lead when they got it, ALL of his points were just as crucial.

And lets not forget Dirks clutch and one against SA in game seven, thats imo more clutch than Lebrons performance here, the difference being Dirks team was seconds away from elimination in a game 7. The point is Lebron deserves credit for that performance, but we've seen similar impressive feats that haven't gone down as historic. This performance is historic because its King James, not Dirk.

Game was tied going into the fourth. Mavs were up by about 2 with half of the fourth to go. Then they went on a 21-5 run with dirk scoring 22 in the fourth to put it away.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs

Lebron did it while being black. Therefore due to affirmative action, it was a better performance than Dirk.

End of discussion.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by littlelibo

He missed 3 free throws in a row at the in the colsing moments of regulation that allowed Detroit to force overtime.

What in the hell are you talking about?

[V2M]

Lebron's performance was great... and I enjoyed it immensely. But to enhance it's value, let's not put Dirk's performance (or anyone else's for that matter!) down.

Further, please don't say that was a 'vaunted Detroit defense'. Ben Wallace is now playing for Bulls AND McDyess was ejected long before Lebron's scoring binge had started. And due to that idiotic flagrant foul by McDyess, the game was called much tighter resulting in most players on both sides getting into serious foul trouble. So, every time Lebron got past his man (Rip, Billups, Prince), the help defense (Webber, Rasheed) was almost non-existent. That explains why he got so many easy layups/dunks in the final minutes of a key playoff game. Obviously he's made a few tough jumpers and that was great. He also missed 4 key FTs (3 in regulation and 1 in OT) that could have put the game away much sooner!

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by V2M

Obviously he's made a few tough jumpers and that was great. He also missed 4 key FTs (3 in regulation and 1 in OT) that could have put the game away much sooner!

Holy Mackeral..A choker?? Probably not since they won the game, funny how that works.

[come_on_now]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Holy Mackeral..A choker?? Probably not since they won the game, funny how that works.

No kidding. Every game a player misses some free throws that would have otherwise made the game not as close.

Jeez. This mentality amazes me. If they lose they are a choker. If they don't win by enough they're on the bubble. Some people are impossible to please.

[dude1394]

I think it's more like some people are senseless.

[littlelibo]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

What in the hell are you talking about?

He did miss 3 free throws.. the "and one" and then two in a row.

The point of my post was to praise him and Dirk. To say that they are unselfish stars learning how to lead their teams. I thought the game was great for Lebron the same way the game last year was great for Dirk.

[Rodman#70]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

Some of us are Dirk fans.
Some of us are Mavs fans.
Some of us are basketball fans.

Last night was a cool night for basketball fans. Respect, Lebron!

What you did for the Cavs every fan hopes a player on their team can do.

As a fan of all 3, I will say that was one of the greatest games I have ever seen from one indivdual ever..

Dirk did it last season, but look at these rosters.. We have so much more damn talent than the Cavs, it's ridiculous..LeBron would probably give his left nut for a Josh Howard, or Jet Terry.. Hell, even a PG like Devin, or solid vet like Stack would probably be enough to take the east with ease..

Bottom line, that was a 22 year old, on the floor in one of the most hostile enviorments in all of the NBA.. He has nobody on his team that is worth a damn, and he scored 25 straight points, and 29/30..It was literally 1 vs 5

I love Dirk, but I certainly would not group LeBron with Dirk in terms of being passive, and then group Kobe in Wade in a seperate category as killers.. Dirk is almost a 10 year vet with a stacked team, Kobe and Wade have played on stacked teams.. LeBron is just a pup.. And the last time I checked, he didn't have that luxury crutch that both Wade and Kobe have had throughout their careers in Shaquille O'neal.. There was No Shaq or Pippen on the floor with that kid..

Personally, I think what LeBron has done with this team is way more impressive than what many is giving it credit for..He has so much more pressure and expectation on him than Dirk could even imagine, and he was criticized like crazy after the first two games, and he answered like a real pro should..

That was impressive.. Congrats LBJ and Cavs !!! Now finish off those Pistons..

[Big Shot Rob]

That was a great game by Lebron.

Only thing that detracts from this performance is the fact that Detroit played zero defense against James in the 4th and in the overtimes.

Sorry--constant lay-ups and dunks are pretty to watch, but it also means the defensive team is asleep at the switch.

Still--he made incredible shots all the way around, even ones with great defense on his three point shots.

[StackAttack]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

The point total (48) in itself has very little to do with it. It's the fact that he scored every point for his team from the eight-minute mark on, and that he basically singlehandedly overcame a very good defensive team on their own home floor. And that they would have been facing almost certain elimination, you would think, if they had lost the game.

Dirk's game was a brilliant one, to be sure. But the circumstances were not quite the same.

Agreed. The magnificent thing about LeBron's performance was that it was pretty much the closest thing to 1-on-5 that I've ever seen.

[Murphy3]

Well, wasn't really 1 on 5 when you consider the miserable defense being played by the Pistons...some of which was the fault of their head coach...

[alby]

When you have Marshall and Jones camping out in each corner, it's not 1 on 5.

[fluid.forty.one]

Originally Posted by alby

The Mavericks were down 70-77 late in the 3rd quarter. Dirk then precedes to score 25 in the next 15 minutes to help blow out the Suns.

29** in the last 15 min

It was better than lebrons night sorry. Here's a good example why:

Jordan scored 63 in a playoff game and lost. It's still called one of the best performances ever.

If Dirk would have had the same game time lebron had then I think he could have hit 60+ easy.

[alby]

I'm agreeing with you. Dirk's performance has to be up there with Lebron's, if not higher.

[mqywaaah]

Originally Posted by alby

I'm agreeing with you. Dirk's performance has to be up there with Lebron's, if not higher.

Higher!!! Too bad everyone tends to oversee it

[Tokey41]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Game was tied going into the fourth. Mavs were up by about 2 with half of the fourth to go. Then they went on a 21-5 run with dirk scoring 22 in the fourth to put it away.

People who watched the game know that but the average NBA fan will look back at the final score and think blowout and conclude that Dirks 50 might have been created through garbage minutes. In contrast Lebrons dominance just barely put them over the top to win the game by two points. It just seems more dramatic I guess to win a close game than single handedly dominate the leagues best offense by yourself in the fourth...

[rabbitproof]

I wasn't also only juiced by the game though every basket and every possession felt like it could be a buzzer-beater (to Tokey's point) but it was also like a coming out party for LeBron - going from All-Star/franchise player to.... only what God can imagine?

Dirk's 50 wasn't his coming out party.

[rabbitproof]

The way the conversation has unfolded, this thread is in an appropriate place but as labeled, I agree as previously noted, this thread is in the wrong forum.

[dude1394]

[QUOTE=Tokey41It just seems more dramatic I guess to win a close game than single handedly dominate the leagues best offense by yourself in the fourth...[/QUOTE]

I think you've got it. It just seems more dramatic. And of course if his 3 missed free throws had cost them the game, he'd be a choker.

[craggmac]

Yes, sometimes the things that happen in the offseason (Now) are great.

[hotsauce]

omg!!! I almost never post, but I feel that I need to in this circumstance due to absurd comments and idiotic homers. Well, I would like to, first and foremost, point out that although I may want the mavs to win a title soon there is no reason to stop watching basketball because they are not in the playoffs. I'm not saying there is anything particularly wrong about this, but it just seems a bit gay to me that half of you posters stopped watching basketball because dirk wont hoist the trophy. Its one thing to root for a team while appreciating the sport being played at its highest level, but another thing to have a man crush on dirk and not enjoy the rest of the great basketball left to be played. Oh and please do not continue to insist that the refs gave the championship to miami----i think "we lost it". We simply did not have the balls to make clutch plays hopefully we will next year.
1. josh's infamous timeout
2. dirks missed free throw with game on the line
3. losing a 13 point lead in the fourth quarter.
etc..... we lost the series..... not the refs. They did make bad calls, but we played like the Pistons--- we played like punks..
cavs over sa in 6 .. mavs over miami in 2008

[alby]

you posted the same exact thing in another thread.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by alby

you posted the same exact thing in another thread.

It was bothering him so much that he had to get it off his chest twice.

[mcsluggo]

boo f***ing hoo, people.

Can't any of you talk about ONE good game without the implication being you are dissing ANOTHER good game. Both players had great games, okay?

THe kneejerk "dump Dirk, he has no balls" discussions are irritating...
...and the "we must defend Dirk aganst any and all potential impugnations of his splendor" that have seemed to pop up in reaction are at least as irritating, in their own regard.

[pkdumas]

Dirk is the greatest ever. LeBron second. MJ third.