Mavs Get Freaking Shawn Marion!!!! - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

clutch#41 · 07-06-2009, 09:40 PM

anything for stack would be an upgrade!!
the mavs would be SICK with marion!!!!
brings athleticism, rebounder and the 3!
i could see an alley oop from kidd to marion the next 3 years!!

Underdog · 07-06-2009, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Right...the offense might be iffy, but the thing you're probably counting on the most from him in crunch time is the defense. He's extremely versatile on who you put him on at that point.

According to the links you posted, Shawn Marion is still a slight upgrade over Josh Howard in the 4th quarter (according to last season's stats) - now add Jason Kidd to the equation...

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 07-06-2009, 09:43 PM

This deal is far from done.

I wonder some time from now if we'll be watching Marion as a Mav or we'll be talking about how he was almost a Mav.

aexchange · 07-06-2009, 09:43 PM

i think the mavs are in an obvious go for it now mode. i almost wonder what kind of deal the mavs are looking for marion to sign. i'm guessing its somewhere in the 3 yr range with the 3rd yr partially guaranteed. with these moves, i believe the mavs are going to go for it over the next 2 years while dirk remains in his prime.

after some further consideration, i think im ok with these moves assuming marion doesn't decline too much over what he currently is. my only fear is that most people remember him for what he was a few years ago and not for what he is now.

BGMaverick9 · 07-06-2009, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aexchange

after some further consideration, i think im ok with these moves assuming marion doesn't decline too much over what he currently is. my only fear is that most people remember him for what he was a few years ago and not for what he is now.

While he was on the outs in Miami and in Toronto, he wasn't exactly working with the same pieces he had in Phoenix.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 07-06-2009, 09:47 PM

I like what someone said before about his decline in Miami and Toronto, he didn't have a true pg. He's the perfect player for a Nash or Kidd lead team. I for one am excited if we land him. (it's not a done deal yet)

jthig32 · 07-06-2009, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aexchange

i think the mavs are in an obvious go for it now mode. i almost wonder what kind of deal the mavs are looking for marion to sign. i'm guessing its somewhere in the 3 yr range with the 3rd yr partially guaranteed. with these moves, i believe the mavs are going to go for it over the next 2 years while dirk remains in his prime.

after some further consideration, i think im ok with these moves assuming marion doesn't decline too much over what he currently is. my only fear is that most people remember him for what he was a few years ago and not for what he is now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

While he was on the outs in Miami and in Toronto, he wasn't exactly working with the same pieces he had in Phoenix.

I think both of you have valid points. I don't think there's any question that Marion is a product of what he has around him, to some extent. He doesn't create his own offense so he's more dependent on his offensive system than most.

HOWEVER, Marion is the type of player who is going to decline very, very quickly. I mean I expect his productivity to just drop off a cliff at some point. This is because is game is SO based on speed and athleticism. So you just better hope (or know) that he's not going to lose those abilities early in his new contract.

And, please remember that he's a bit of a knucklehead that was more interested in a larger role on a bad team that continuing to contribute on a good team in Phoenix. This must be remembered and taken into account.

But the bottom line is you'd be adding a valuable, fringe-all star level player for nothing. I mean people were talking themselves into trading Josh for this guy last year. So it would be a large upgrade, and honestly, a bigger one than I have been expecting.

BGMaverick9 · 07-06-2009, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I think both of you have valid points. I don't think there's any question that Marion is a product of what he has around him, to some extent. He doesn't create his own offense so he's more dependent on his offensive system than most.

HOWEVER, Marion is the type of player who is going to decline very, very quickly. I mean I expect his productivity to just drop off a cliff at some point. This is because is game is SO based on speed and athleticism. So you just better hope (or know) that he's not going to lose those abilities early in his new contract.

And, please remember that he's a bit of a knucklehead that was more interested in a larger role on a bad team that continuing to contribute on a good team in Phoenix. This must be remembered and taken into account.

I agree with the fact he will drop off soon. This is clearly a move to make this win NOW! If it's a 3 year deal, that 3rd one will be interesting to see if it's fully guaranteed.

The thing you have to hope is he had it great in Phoenix and blew it. He saw what can happen in Miami and you get stuck in Toronto. He IS getting close to the edge, time to get in gear and get a ring.

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-06-2009, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

If we can get Marion for Stack/filler, I have a feeling there's another (larger) deal around the corner... Josh or JET plus any combination of Damp, George, Wright or Carroll should land you a pretty damn good shooting guard (personally I'd shop Howard/George/Wright/Carroll pretty hard, only using Damp if it's for an All-Star...)

So you're basically thinking that getting Marion would render Howard expendable?

Interesting...

Still, getting Marion is better than doing nothing. He is a better starting option than Antoine Wright.

jthig32 · 07-06-2009, 09:57 PM

I'll say this...Marion would absolutely be a better addition than Richard Jefferson (for us). So if we get Marion for the Stack chip, I'll have to admit I was completely wrong on not cashing Stack in for RJ.

LonghornDub · 07-06-2009, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aexchange

call me underwhelmed if this is the only thing the stack chip lands us.

don't know about others, but i would almost rather have RIP than marion at this stage whose athletic ability is on the decline.

I think your judgment is being colored by the fact that Marion has essentially fallen off the map since leaving PHX. I said at the time that it was a bad trade for PHX, and it proved very much to be so, primarily because Marion is a very versatile player.

darkwitzki · 07-06-2009, 10:00 PM

Roddy, Marion and Gortat, let's talk about defense now..

Flacolaco · 07-06-2009, 10:01 PM

I think I would have a hard time rooting for Maid Marion

BGMaverick9 · 07-06-2009, 10:02 PM

The Polish Prince can save her..

LonghornDub · 07-06-2009, 10:03 PM

I will give this offseason an A if we get Marion and Gortat.

quietsavant · 07-06-2009, 10:03 PM

I hear all this talk about Marion being on this presumed decline and I laugh. I laugh because it reminds me of all the talk about grant hill(the poster boy of career injuries) being done, finished and useless. And seeing him contribute solidly as a starter for the suns for 82 games. Look guys with athletes, emotions, temperament, surroundings all play a role in their contribution. So lets not try to pretend to know something we dont here

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-06-2009, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'll say this...Marion would absolutely be a better addition than Richard Jefferson (for us). So if we get Marion for the Stack chip, I'll have to admit I was completely wrong on not cashing Stack in for RJ.

Just for chit chat, what is your reasoning behind thinking Marion is a better get than Jefferson?

BGMaverick9 · 07-06-2009, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I will give this offseason an A if we get Marion and Gortat.

BAE/LLE = A +

chumdawg · 07-06-2009, 10:06 PM

All I want to know is...can he play point forward!?

Zki41 · 07-06-2009, 10:07 PM

The good thing is, if Josh Howard smokes during halftime and disappears in the second half ... we have at least someone else who can play.

But this is also Josh's contract year and Marion gives him pressure. If this is enough to mentally get Josh to 06-07 all-star form ... that would make the addition of Marion all the more better.

LonghornDub · 07-06-2009, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

BAE/LLE = A +

This man speaks the truth.

aexchange · 07-06-2009, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Just for chit chat, what is your reasoning behind thinking Marion is a better get than Jefferson?

not jthig, but if marion's contact is reasonable, i like his deal far better than i like jefferson's deal. that alone is enough to seal the deal.

factor in the fact that marion is a better 3 than jefferson and that jho/marion at the 2/3 is a better alternative than jefferson/jho at the 2/3 and i think the deal is pretty straight forward.

dude1394 · 07-06-2009, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I agree with the fact he will drop off soon. This is clearly a move to make this win NOW! If it's a 3 year deal, that 3rd one will be interesting to see if it's fully guaranteed.

The thing you have to hope is he had it great in Phoenix and blew it. He saw what can happen in Miami and you get stuck in Toronto. He IS getting close to the edge, time to get in gear and get a ring.

Yea but he also had the knucklehead Amare to deal with. A guy who is about to run himself out of town AFTER running shawn, rajabell and shaq out of town.

twistaeffect2004 · 07-06-2009, 10:09 PM

I'll say this, the Mavs become pretty darn versatile and athletic if this deal comes to fruition.

I believe I read that the Mavs and Marion's agent are really pushing hard for this, and are looking for a possible third team to facilitate this trade.

Bayliss · 07-06-2009, 10:12 PM

Quote:

The Polish Prince can save her..

I think the Polish Prince will bring the hammer on Maid Marion.

Okay, talking about Memphis and Gay being a three way got me side tracked....

Carry on.

BGMaverick9 · 07-06-2009, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Yea but he also had the knucklehead Amare to deal with. A guy who is about to run himself out of town AFTER running shawn, rajabell and shaq out of town.

He'll be dealing with a team that is full of guys who are willing to defer and share the spotlight, and they all want to win...badly.

LonghornDub · 07-06-2009, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Just for chit chat, what is your reasoning behind thinking Marion is a better get than Jefferson?

Marion's a better defender and rebounder. If you're looking for a guy who can create his own offense, RJ is obviously better, but when you have the Kidd on your team, you don't have to worry about that.

mkat · 07-06-2009, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Say what?

I'm assuming the mavs would play him at the 2 spot, since josh is at the 3. is marion quick enough to guard a 2? i always saw him as more of a 3/4 hybrid.

StackAttack · 07-06-2009, 10:15 PM

I'm a bigger Marion fan than most of you guys seem to be. Yeah, he'll have a drop-off in effectiveness soon, but Kidd's arguably already at that point and Dirk and JET are just a few years away. This rumor has me thinking that Cuban is looking to proactively win in the next two or three years (probably all we have left of our HOF German's prime). I'd be really happy with this move - it's tough to argue with a trade that lands you a cusp All-Star for literally nothing. Although I'd be quite happy with an offseason that ends with re-signing Kidd and acquiring Gortat, Marion, and Ross, the fact remains that we would still have plenty of pretty appealing assets (financially speaking) in Josh, Damp, Carroll, and George. If somehow we can turn that group into a big-name 2 and one more rotation player...

EDIT: Not to mention, we would still have the LLE to use on someone. I'm getting far too excited about a rumor.

Underdog · 07-06-2009, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

So you're basically thinking that getting Marion would render Howard expendable?

I don't know if I'm sold on Josh Howard at the 2 - he definitely possess some of the skills for the position, but he doesn't seem like a "natural" shooting guard (along the lines of Rip Hamilton, for example...)

FINtastic · 07-06-2009, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I think both of you have valid points. I don't think there's any question that Marion is a product of what he has around him, to some extent. He doesn't create his own offense so he's more dependent on his offensive system than most.

HOWEVER, Marion is the type of player who is going to decline very, very quickly. I mean I expect his productivity to just drop off a cliff at some point. This is because is game is SO based on speed and athleticism. So you just better hope (or know) that he's not going to lose those abilities early in his new contract.

And, please remember that he's a bit of a knucklehead that was more interested in a larger role on a bad team that continuing to contribute on a good team in Phoenix. This must be remembered and taken into account.

But the bottom line is you'd be adding a valuable, fringe-all star level player for nothing. I mean people were talking themselves into trading Josh for this guy last year. So it would be a large upgrade, and honestly, a bigger one than I have been expecting.

This is what concerns me as well. As you said, if there was ever a player that depended on his athleticism, it was Marion. So when that is gone, he's pretty much done as a player.

Did anyone watch him play last year? I realize that system wasn't great for him as a player, but his dip in stats does concern me that he is losing some athleticism. I certainly didn't care to watch any Raptor games though so I can't say for certain what the reason was.

Hopefully we get a player that still has some legs left because even with the knucklehead factor, he was a darn good player in a Suns uniform, and reuniting with a passer like Kidd might bring out some of his game again. I'll cross my fingers that's what happens.

Considering we only had to give up Stack's contract to make this deal happen, I'll go ahead and back this move. I'm not sure what we could have realistically expected back in return that was much better unless we managed to package it up with several other players. Even with that option, I'm not sure what other pieces were out there.

jthig32 · 07-06-2009, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Just for chit chat, what is your reasoning behind thinking Marion is a better get than Jefferson?

Quote:

Originally Posted by aexchange

not jthig, but if marion's contact is reasonable, i like his deal far better than i like jefferson's deal. that alone is enough to seal the deal.

factor in the fact that marion is a better 3 than jefferson and that jho/marion at the 2/3 is a better alternative than jefferson/jho at the 2/3 and i think the deal is pretty straight forward.

Aex got it mostly. The big thing is the salary. Jefferson is making 29 mil over the next two seasons. I doubt very seriously that Marion's deal in this proposed SnT would reach that amount for three years.

Also, I think Marion is a much more versatile player, and much, much better defensively. Marion can guard a lot of PF's which I think has to be one of the real selling points to the Mav's front office.

grndmstr_c · 07-06-2009, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkat

I'm assuming the mavs would play him at the 2 spot, since josh is at the 3. is marion quick enough to guard a 2? i always saw him as more of a 3/4 hybrid.

Maybe I can save jthig the trouble of asking again.

Say what?

LonghornDub · 07-06-2009, 10:19 PM

I'm going to fire up the old Delorean here:

http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/showth...770#post801770

Of course, I was not the only one in that thread who had that opinion. Looks like thiggy and kg, at the least, were right there too.

jthig32 · 07-06-2009, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkat

I'm assuming the mavs would play him at the 2 spot, since josh is at the 3. is marion quick enough to guard a 2? i always saw him as more of a 3/4 hybrid.

Assuming Josh is kept and Marion is acquired, Marion would certainly be the SF on defense, and on offense the designation doesn't really matter so much.

Josh is perfectly capable of guarding shooting guards.

mkat · 07-06-2009, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Josh is perfectly capable of guarding shooting guards.

i'd always heard contrary. here and elsewhere.

jthig32 · 07-06-2009, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I'm going to fire up the old Delorean here:

http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/showth...770#post801770

Of course, I was not the only one in that thread who had that opinion. Looks like thiggy and kg, at the least, were right there too.

Yup I was right there with ya.

I always felt like Marion was the underrated component of that Phoenix team.

BGMaverick9 · 07-06-2009, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I'm going to fire up the old Delorean here:

http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/showth...770#post801770

Of course, I was not the only one in that thread who had that opinion. Looks like thiggy and kg, at the least, were right there too.

I hope you didn't talk to yourself very long while you used that. You were at The Enchantment Under the Sea dance...

LonghornDub · 07-06-2009, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I hope you didn't talk to yourself very long while you used that. You were at The Enchantment Under the Sea dance...

My hand started fading away, but then I jammed with Chuck Berry's cousin and everything was ok.

BGMaverick9 · 07-06-2009, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

My hand started fading away, but then I jammed with Chuck Berry's cousin and everything was ok.