2017 NBA Draft

[SMC0007]

* I'm not convinced that Barnes at PF is best for the long haul, yet. But I like that he can succeed at both positions. I might disagree that he isn't a star...he's on the cusp.

* Devin Harris is probably the best option at PG that we have. He may have 2 more years at his current level. Counting on Yogi isn't smart...but it's a great bonus if he continues to step forward.

* Mathews is not playing well at all and he's not athletic enough to have anymore hopes that he turns it around. My highest expectation for him is maybe some good defensive moments and hit some 3's, but I don't want him starting or relied upon to carry any type of load. Curry should start at SG.


We need a PG for the future, but we also need size at the wing, unless we think DFS and BRussino can take fairly large steps forward in their game. We lack size athletic ability outside of Noel (and Barnes) at every position.

I'm not crazy about anyone past the top few PG in the draft but I wouldn't mind seing us get an athletic, long wing with handles.

[saclare]

I'm honestly hoping one of the better SF prospects falls to the 9th pick. Jackson, Tatum, and Isaac would add some length and rebounding to this team. I do think PG is a need, but if one of those three falls, Mavs have to consider it. I think it all comes down to how they view Barnes at the 3 or 4. All 3 should be gone by the time Mavs pick, but would give a long pause should one of them fall.

Either way, I'm excited. Mavs are going to get an impactful player out of this draft. I see one of Smith Jr., Fox, Frank, or the 3 mentioned above being a Mav next season and contributing.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by saclare

I'm honestly hoping one of the better SF prospects falls to the 9th pick. Jackson, Tatum, and Isaac would add some length and rebounding to this team. I do think PG is a need, but if one of those three falls, Mavs have to consider it. I think it all comes down to how they view Barnes at the 3 or 4. All 3 should be gone by the time Mavs pick, but would give a long pause should one of them fall.

Either way, I'm excited. Mavs are going to get an impactful player out of this draft. I see one of Smith Jr., Fox, Frank, or the 3 mentioned above being a Mav next season and contributing.

If you are okay with an SF prospect, I have good news. I can almost 100% guarantee there will be a good one available at 9-10. Whether we draft a PF/C is up to the MBT, but the players are there.

4 good forwards, 6 good guards and we have an 87.4% chance of drafting in the top 9 and a 99.6% chance of drafting in the top 10 with 10 quality guards/SFs available on the board.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by saclare

I'm honestly hoping one of the better SF prospects falls to the 9th pick. Jackson, Tatum, and Isaac would add some length and rebounding to this team. I do think PG is a need, but if one of those three falls, Mavs have to consider it. I think it all comes down to how they view Barnes at the 3 or 4. All 3 should be gone by the time Mavs pick, but would give a long pause should one of them fall.

Either way, I'm excited. Mavs are going to get an impactful player out of this draft. I see one of Smith Jr., Fox, Frank, or the 3 mentioned above being a Mav next season and contributing.

I think it will be more of how other teams ahead of us draft, than where Fo/coach sees Barnes fitting. There has been some surprises in the draft before so you never know. Barnes is proficient enough at both positions to go ahead and draft the best player available at 9.

If I had to bet, FO has their eye on a Swing player first because we need athleticism and length; combined with the probabiiity of the top 3 PG's being gone when we get to select. If we are going to take a stab at potential, we need to be doing it on the wing as opposed to a guy running the show at point, imo. It's a lot easier to rebound and play defense and hope the offensive game develops than it is to jump in as a rookie or 2nd year player and run the show...UNLESS we get lucky on the gamble.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Why the hell does his "skills and ceiling" have to match white guys when y'all compare? Such a bs stereotype.

Why do some people automatically play the race card?

He plays like Doug McDermott so he gets compared to Doug McDermott.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Why do some people automatically play the race card?

He plays like Doug McDermott so he gets compared to Doug McDermott.

Who automatically does that? It's a lazy and uncreative comparison. You can't really think he plays like Doug McDermott. lol

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I think it will be more of how other teams ahead of us draft, than where Fo/coach sees Barnes fitting. There has been some surprises in the draft before so you never know. Barnes is proficient enough at both positions to go ahead and draft the best player available at 9.

If I had to bet, FO has their eye on a Swing player first because we need athleticism and length; combined with the probabiiity of the top 3 PG's being gone when we get to select. If we are going to take a stab at potential, we need to be doing it on the wing as opposed to a guy running the show at point, imo. It's a lot easier to rebound and play defense and hope the offensive game develops than it is to jump in as a rookie or 2nd year player and run the show...UNLESS we get lucky on the gamble.

You think the FO is on a different page than Cuban who has come out to say that we're looking at a lead guard?

Also fully agree that the draft is a crap shoot. This is our first lottery chance since 2004 so a lot of us haven't followed the draft very closely, but those mock drafts-- even fairly stable mock drafts-- are always wrong and there are always MAJOR surprises. I remember when Michael Carter-Williams was the consensus top three pick for basically 6 months. He wasn't drafted until 11th and has floundered in the NBA. RJ Hunter was predicted to go 10-15 but fell to 28th. Lots of things CAN happen and often DO happen. Just because someone has been 1st overall all year (and we haven't seen a consistent, consensus first like we did with LeBron), doesn't mean that's how it will shake out. There is going to be some insanity in this draft. Lots of potential talent. No one clearly stands out as the best of the best.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

You think the FO is on a different page than Cuban who has come out to say that we're looking at a lead guard?

Also fully agree that the draft is a crap shoot. This is our first lottery chance since 2004 so a lot of us haven't followed the draft very closely, but those mock drafts-- even fairly stable mock drafts-- are always wrong and there are always MAJOR surprises. I remember when Michael Carter-Williams was the consensus top three pick for basically 6 months. He wasn't drafted until 11th and has floundered in the NBA. RJ Hunter was predicted to go 10-15 but fell to 28th. Lots of things CAN happen and often DO happen. Just because someone has been 1st overall all year (and we haven't seen a consistent, consensus first like we did with LeBron), doesn't mean that's how it will shake out. There is going to be some insanity in this draft. Lots of potential talent. No one clearly stands out as the best of the best.

To your first point, pretty sure that was a comment geared toward the whole Romo thing...it applies, but at the time, just a prequel to the stunt.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

You think the FO is on a different page than Cuban who has come out to say that we're looking at a lead guard?

Also fully agree that the draft is a crap shoot. This is our first lottery chance since 2004 so a lot of us haven't followed the draft very closely, but those mock drafts-- even fairly stable mock drafts-- are always wrong and there are always MAJOR surprises. I remember when Michael Carter-Williams was the consensus top three pick for basically 6 months. He wasn't drafted until 11th and has floundered in the NBA. RJ Hunter was predicted to go 10-15 but fell to 28th. Lots of things CAN happen and often DO happen. Just because someone has been 1st overall all year (and we haven't seen a consistent, consensus first like we did with LeBron), doesn't mean that's how it will shake out. There is going to be some insanity in this draft. Lots of potential talent. No one clearly stands out as the best of the best.

If I had to bet, yes. Unless a gift at PG falls in our lap at 9.

One thing I wouldn't do is put much weight behind what Cuban says. Idk if there is much to gain from keeping the cards close to the vest in regards to the draft, but as a rule of thumb I wouldn't toss out exactly and specifically what I am trying for.

Ultimately things can and will likely change because there are factors other than what we want in March. A few other variables in play with the biggest being that you just never know what you are gonna have to choose from. It just seems like theres deeper quality to select from at wing.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by MavzMan

And on a side note, shouldn't this thread be in the Trade and Draft Board section?

Indirectly it is.
We have some nice young talent and if some of them can grow into certain roles where we may otherwise draft it is germane to the conversation.
PG is the most talked about position of need on this board. We will be faced with alternatives if we miss out on any of the top 5.

My points on Brussino is that he has the skillset that with the right attitude, work ethic, coaching, and maturity could develop into a PG on this team. Not necessarily in the traditional form, but definitely in the RC 3-PG lineups. which would give us some much needed size.

SF is also mentioned as possible need in the draft and Brussino could essentially kill two birds with one stone which makes him somewhat unique.

In other words, Brussino helps allow us to just take the BPA in this draft imo. If we take a PG his role will increase as a SF, if we pick a SF his role could possibly increase in the backcourt.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by saclare

To your first point, pretty sure that was a comment geared toward the whole Romo thing...it applies, but at the time, just a prequel to the stunt.

On April 4th Cuban said,

"We've to get better at point (guard). There's no question. If we can't do it in the draft, we'll look at free agency."

It was unrelated to the Romo situation, although he did make a joke the day before Romo signed that we needed a pass-first point guard then.

[Underdog]

This team definitely needs a PG, especially one that compliments Yogi in the rotation (size, ability to run an offense)... Barea won't be here much longer and Harris might have already played his last game in a Mavs uni... And from what I've seen, Curry is more of a SG than a PG.

Obviously we should be gunning for Fultz, Ball, Smith, Fox, and Frank, but I'd have no problem if Jackson, Tatum, or Isaac fell to us either... If that happens, the easy solution is to try to ship out Wes and let whatever forward we end up with switch with Barnes between offense and defense, the same way we've seen PG/SG's and PF/C's switch around in Carlisle's system... Position is fluid, all that matters is that you have all the right skillsets on the floor at once.

We'd still have free agency to shore up the PG position if we end up drafting a forward. Not to mention that we're in rebuild mode -- no reason to think we're going to have all the pieces in place to be a contender after this summer.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by MavzMan

And on a side note, shouldn't this thread be in the Trade and Draft Board section?

Yeah, I merged the two threads since they're pretty much the same thing now... I thought we could have spun some interesting FA talk out of the draft, but it just ended up being another yahyes Markkanen propaganda thread before it evolved into typical draft tangents.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

On April 4th Cuban said,



It was unrelated to the Romo situation, although he did make a joke the day before Romo signed that we needed a pass-first point guard then.

My mistake, I thought you were referring to the latter Cuban quote. I think we can read into that a little bit, then.

Edit: I liked what I saw out of Teague on Monday night...

[saclare]

Watching the Celtics last night had me thinking they might need to look harder at Josh Jackson with their 1st pick, wherever the balls fall. Fultz is definitely the best prospect, but Jackson isn't far behind, and they have a glut of talented guards.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by saclare

Watching the Celtics last night had me thinking they might need to look harder at Josh Jackson with their 1st pick, wherever the balls fall. Fultz is definitely the best prospect, but Jackson isn't far behind, and they have a glut of talented guards.

I was thinking the same thing a while back. I wonder how Fultz and Thomas could co-exist and if Boston would be willing to part with one of their young guards if they do take Fultz.
Jackson will be a really good NBA player but just how good is the big question.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

I was thinking the same thing a while back. I wonder how Fultz and Thomas could co-exist and if Boston would be willing to part with one of their young guards if they do take Fultz.
Jackson will be a really good NBA player but just how good is the big question.

I think that would be the next prudent step, regardless of if they choose Fultz or Jackson. They need some better minutes at the 3 and 4 than what they're getting, and Horford has been OK, albeit a bit of a tweener.

They have young pieces like Jaylen Brown and Terry Rozier, or they could sell high(ish) on Smart or Crowder.

I just think with frontline starters with Thomas and Bradley, a Josh Jackson would have much more of an impact on their current roster.

[SMC0007]

What does getting Jackson do to Crowder, who is a good player for them?

They really need a good Center more than anything else.

[SMC0007]

All these issues make it easier to forsee some movement in the lottery pick range. I wouldn't be surprised to see a cpl trades up high in the draft.

Do the Lakers, Celtics and Philadelphia really NEED PG's? I'm Not convinced they do. A few surprises or trades throws the whole thing off.

I'm lovin it.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

What does getting Jackson do to Crowder, who is a good player for them?

They really need a good Center more than anything else.

I think Crowder is severely overrated. Good rotation guy, but not someone you don't take a prospect like Jackson in spite of.

They do need a center, but none are worth a top 10 pick in this draft. Now if they trade out and stockpile assets...but I think they go with Fultz or Jackson before doing that.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

All these issues make it easier to forsee some movement in the lottery pick range. I wouldn't be surprised to see a cpl trades up high in the draft.

Do the Lakers, Celtics and Philadelphia really NEED PG's? I'm Not convinced they do. A few surprises or trades throws the whole thing off.

I'm lovin it.

Philly most definitely needs a PG, even if Ben Simmons becomes the primary ball handler a la Greek Freak. I could also see them picking Monk as an upgrade at the 2.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by saclare

Philly most definitely needs a PG, even if Ben Simmons becomes the primary ball handler a la Greek Freak. I could also see them picking Monk as an upgrade at the 2.

So they put TJ on the bench for a rookie, when they need a SG? My guess is they would take Monk if avail.

1.Bos- Jackson
2.Pho- Tatum
3.LA- Ball
4.Phi- Monk
5.Orl- Fultz
6.Min- Fox
7.Ny- Isaac, Smith
8.Sac- Smith, Isaac
9.Dal- Frank, Markkanen, Z. Collins

[Melonhead]

Didnt statistically Seth do better at the point once he shored up some turnovers?

I agree that drafting a PG doesnt fix our neverending rebounding issue, but PG may be the quickest to fix with what the draft is presenting.

Dirk really stepped up with rebounding this season so there's hope.

I know Barnes flourished offensively at the 4, I still have long term concern banging with the bigger guys and tiring himself on the defensive end, as well as getting rebounds.

Basically we have more holes than just PG ahah

[saclare]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

So they put TJ on the bench for a rookie, when they need a SG? My guess is they would take Monk if avail.

1.Bos- Jackson
2.Pho- Tatum
3.LA- Ball
4.Phi- Monk
5.Orl- Fultz
6.Min- Fox
7.Ny- Isaac, Smith
8.Sac- Smith, Isaac
9.Dal- Frank, Markkanen, Z. Collins

TJ McConnell? I think if Fultz is there, as in your scenario, and they don't pick him, the 76ers deserve to be horrible forever.

I agree with your second point, though. If both Fultz and Ball are taken, then I'd expect them to go with Monk.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Dirk really stepped up with rebounding this season so there's hope.

I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock into Dirk's sudden increase in rebounding numbers. Playing the 5 with Barnes not being a good rebounder at the 4 would probably give him more opportunities than in the past.
It's odd to see Dirk doing the blue collar dirty work and I'm not so sure we are exactly at our best when he is in that role.

I can't imagine Noel will get near max money and come off the bench next season so it will be interesting to see how Rick handles that situation.

[MavzMan]

There is no way Fultz drops to #5. He is the consensus #1 pick on every single mock draft. What I fully expect to happen is either Boston trades down a few spots to get their guy/need+bench player or they trade existing SG (Bradley?) and keep Fultz.

As for the Mavs, we already have a glut of players that can play both forward spots. We are undersized at SG when Curry plays it or PG when Yogi plays it, and Noel is our future center. I could see a need for a rebounding C/PF player to have a high minute rotation with Noel and Barnes who would move to the SF position, but that is still a backup player.

PG is our highest need and it's not even close. JJB looks so awesome when he comes off the bench partly because he's a capable passing PG that improves the team. We need that in a starter.

[EricaLubarsky]

Things will be a lot more interesting in 26 days when we know the order even if Mavs stay 9th or get bumped back to 10th or 11th.

Order is going to matter a lot and not just ours

[saclare]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Things will be a lot more interesting in 26 days when we know the order even if Mavs stay 9th or get bumped back to 10th or 11th.

Order is going to matter a lot and not just ours

Or...win the lottery

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by MavzMan

There is no way Fultz drops to #5. He is the consensus #1 pick on every single mock draft. What I fully expect to happen is either Boston trades down a few spots to get their guy/need+bench player or they trade existing SG (Bradley?) and keep Fultz.

As for the Mavs, we already have a glut of players that can play both forward spots. We are undersized at SG when Curry plays it or PG when Yogi plays it, and Noel is our future center. I could see a need for a rebounding C/PF player to have a high minute rotation with Noel and Barnes who would move to the SF position, but that is still a backup player.

PG is our highest need and it's not even close. JJB looks so awesome when he comes off the bench partly because he's a capable passing PG that improves the team. We need that in a starter.

We do have a glut of players that play both forward spots, but they aren't exactly quality.

I could have prefaced that list with an opinion of teams needs.

Bradley is a very solid player and it's proven, I'm not so sure he would be my choice to trade off. Also, maybe it annoys their best player who also play the same position as who you are drafting with the number 1 pick. They have plenty to think about.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by MavzMan

There is no way Fultz drops to #5. He is the consensus #1 pick on every single mock draft. What I fully expect to happen is either Boston trades down a few spots to get their guy/need+bench player or they trade existing SG (Bradley?) and keep Fultz.

As for the Mavs, we already have a glut of players that can play both forward spots. We are undersized at SG when Curry plays it or PG when Yogi plays it, and Noel is our future center. I could see a need for a rebounding C/PF player to have a high minute rotation with Noel and Barnes who would move to the SF position, but that is still a backup player.

PG is our highest need and it's not even close. JJB looks so awesome when he comes off the bench partly because he's a capable passing PG that improves the team. We need that in a starter.

Michael Carter-Williams (who ended up getting drafted #11) was a consensus first on draft boards for way longer than Fultz. Fultz has bopped around the top four all year and isn't a clear #1 like you say.

Draft boards are predictions the same way that NCAA brackets are. I doubt Fultz isn't a top 5, but lets not pretend that draft predictions are visions of the future. They're just the best guess based on the hype from scouts.

[sefant77]

Im spending waaay too much time clicking buttons on stupid tankathon....

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Im spending waaay too much time clicking buttons on stupid tankathon....

I click at least three times a day.

Consistently getting third, but not getting my hopes up.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Got 1 on my first hit today. Queue Dumb and Dumber!

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Got the number 1 pick on my second try today. Go tankathon!

[sefant77]

19 times nothing and then #1 two times in a row

[MavzMan]

It's interesting that Isaiah Hartenstein is not even listed in one of the 3 mock drafts that I check. He's projected as #14 and #23 on the other two. I wonder if it's possible to "buy" a second round pick and get him if he is still available. He looks like he has developed into a pretty athletic 7 footer that has potential to develop an all-around game. Worst case scenario is that he is a good center defender that rebounds and plays physical.

[Thebo]

Originally Posted by MavzMan

It's interesting that Isaiah Hartenstein is not even listed in one of the 3 mock drafts that I check. He's projected as #14 and #23 on the other two. I wonder if it's possible to "buy" a second round pick and get him if he is still available. He looks like he has developed into a pretty athletic 7 footer that has potential to develop an all-around game. Worst case scenario is that he is a good center defender that rebounds and plays physical.

You seem to be pretty high on him if this is your worst case scenario. I still stand by the opinion that if he is not even able to start for European club, he is suspect as best.

That being said, buying a second round pick to draft him does sound good.

[EricaLubarsky]

Did 20 sim drafts.

18, 9th spots. 2 10th spots.

All 20 we get Frank.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Did 20 sim drafts.

18, 9th spots. 2 10th spots.

All 20 we get Frank.

I'd love to have Frank, but people are going to have to be patient with him...including the coach.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I'd love to have Frank, but people are going to have to be patient with him...including the coach.

And that is my biggest concern with drafting Ntilikina.
By the time he matures into a quality starter (probably around 23 or 24 if at all), Barnes and Curry could be exiting their prime.
Obviously all rookies, especially the 19yos, will require some development time but Ntilikina at PG could take a little longer.

Lets face it, we need some type of impact player within two years from this draft and with Yogi, Barea, and maybe Harris along with Curry, I can see Rick being a little too patient with Ntilikina's development.