Official offseason 2013-2014 thread

[DTownKidd]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

I just do not see Houston throwing Dallas a bone like that.

Agree. Starter for backup.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by sefant77

The Mavs need Asik much much muuuuch more than the Rockets need Marion.

Well, yes and no. The Mavs "need" Asik more, but the Rockets arguably have more to gain. The weakness in Houston's starting lineup is at the F spot. They have an elite C, an elite SG, and a PG who's good enough (especially given that the SG handles the ball significantly). If you allow them to trade their backup center for a starting SF who still has lots of game left (at least for the next couple years), you're pushing them even closer to a title.

Meanwhile, the Mavs become considerably better with Asik, but they're still not a title contender. Maybe you don't live in a place where it matters, but I'm not sure I want to be making deals that push a major geographical rival closer toward a championship while, at best, pushing the Mavs into the 7 seed or so.

Of course, if Marion for Asik were the only option (and the Rockets would do it), I'd pull the trigger without question. But I'm operating under the assumption that there will be other good deals for Marion, and I'm saying I'd inclined to pursue those more aggressively than one with the Rockets, if there are multiple options.

[sefant77]

Parson >>> Lin

Their weak spot is PF and PG, not SF. Should have dumped Asik straight after Dwight decided and sign Millsap via cap space.

They trade Asik either for a great stretch 4 or for a better PG.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Parson >>> Lin

Their weak spot is PF and PG, not SF. Should have dumped Asik straight after Dwight decided and sign Millsap via cap space.

They trade Asik either for a great stretch 4 or for a better PG.

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to get out of "Parsons >>> Lin." Useless comparison.

Their weak spot is both forward spots and arguably PG. Parsons plays SF and PF, but he can't play both at the same time. They get Marion, Parsons becomes the stretch PF you're talking about in certain lineups. He played PF in two of their five most used lineups last year, and the guy who played SF in those lineups (Delfino) is gone.

But why are we even discussing these semantics? The point is that Marion fills a gap on their team and pushes them closer to a title, while Asik on the Mavs pushes them closer to a first-round exit, but not more. Like I said, I'd do the deal if it's on the table, but I'd also carefully explore other options that don't involve boosting a geographical rival toward a title.

[oilfieldtrash]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to get out of "Parsons >>> Lin." Useless comparison.

Their weak spot is both forward spots and arguably PG. Parsons plays SF and PF, but he can't play both at the same time. They get Marion, Parsons becomes the stretch PF you're talking about in certain lineups. He played PF in two of their five most used lineups last year, and the guy who played SF in those lineups (Delfino) is gone.

But why are we even discussing these semantics? The point is that Marion fills a gap on their team and pushes them closer to a title, while Asik on the Mavs pushes them closer to a first-round exit, but not more. Like I said, I'd do the deal if it's on the table, but I'd also carefully explore other options that don't involve boosting a geographical rival toward a title.

Giving them a one year rental for our center of the future is a no brainer. He's exactly what Dirk needs on the defensive end.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

Giving them a one year rental for our center of the future is a no brainer. He's exactly what Dirk needs on the defensive end.

I don't agree even remotely that Asik is our "center of the future." He's a nice player. He'd make the Mavs better. That's all.

[oilfieldtrash]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I don't agree even remotely that Asik is our "center of the future." He's a nice player. He'd make the Mavs better. That's all.

Another opinion of yours that's off. He's an above average starting center in the league. We don't even have a legitimate starting center much less a top 10 center.

[Melonhead]

I see a lot of people lowballing asik. He's up and coming and will get better. Has not peaked. Houston was a bad defensive team last year but if you look asik was the only bright spot. He's an all around good center. This forum is hard to please though.

With that said, oden wants to join heat or spurs but money is his priority at the moment. And mavs can offer the most.

Per Brett poirier on twitter

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

Another opinion of yours that's off. He's an above average starting center in the league. We don't even have a legitimate starting center much less a top 10 center.

You thinking my opinions are "off" is quite the reassurance that they're exactly on point. Thanks for the boost.

Also love your how your post was nonresponsive to what I said, but I wouldn't expect you to pick up on that.

[Bayliss]

Earl K. Sneed ‏@EarlKSneed 1m
Carlisle: "You're gonna hear some good names I think in the coming days and weeks that are going to be on our team."

Let's hope like hell Carlisle aint blowing sunshine up my @ss.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Earl K. Sneed ‏@EarlKSneed 1m
Carlisle: "You're gonna hear some good names I think in the coming days and weeks that are going to be on our team."

Let's hope like hell Carlisle aint blowing sunshine up my @ss.

Hope you think Sam Dalembert is a "good name."

[grndmstr_c]

Asik's too good a rebounder/defender at his cap number to pass up if he's available for Marion. At the same time, with things as they are right now - and things could change - I think LD's right that in the short term Marion does more to get the Rockets to the next round than Asik does to get the Mavs to the next round. In a lot of ways, Shawn is exactly what that Rockets squad is missing. Regardless, odds are against a deal getting done. Houston will probably prefer not to deal with Dallas even if the reverse isn't true, and I expect some other team will be willing to offer the Rockets a comparable return.

[OneLove22]

No chance in hell we are getting Asik

[purplefrog]

If I am the Rockets, a call to ask about Asik/Lin for Rondo might be a good idea.

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by purplefrog

If I am the Rockets, a call to ask about Asik/Lin for Rondo might be a good idea.

and boston laughs

[mavs777]

I don't think the offseason has been a abject failure like some are saying, they have done some good things, I definitely wouldn't call it a success either. I'd give them a C for the offseason and I was definitely hoping for better this offseason. Here is my breakdown.

Good:
Collison/Kaman gone so defense should improve
Harris arguably outplayed Mayo last year (higher PER and is the better defender) and they got him at 5 mill per year shorter, that is a asset.
Upgraded PG situation (Calderon/Harris/Larkin you could argue are all better than any PG on the roster last year)
The lack of chatter on Wright makes me think he is all but signed only thing is they have bird rights so they will do it to get him over the cap
No Monta or Jennings
Didn't dump Vince/Marion for cheap
Bad:
None of top 5 FA's (I thought it was a must to get one of CP3, Dwight, Iguodala, Bynum, or Josh Smith) and yes I think Smith can play the 3 on offense next to a stretch 4 like dirk, he is a terrific perimeter defender so that end isn't the question.
The Mavs are going to be in a weird cap position next year unless they sign a big overpay for next year, there will be quite a few players under roster (Calderon, Harris, Sarge, Wright, Crowder, Ledo) worth a cheap amount so it will be even more important next year they land a second tier free agent (I don't see anyway melo or LeBron comes)
No clearcut starting center (though I think Wright is, I don't think Carlisle views him this way)
The interest in Dalembert he is a good rebounder, but that is about it, a terrible javale like defender and limited on offense he is worse than Wright and Brand, and maybe even worse than sarge who was a good defender in limited minutes last year

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by mavs777

I don't think the offseason has been a abject failure like some are saying, they have done some good things, I definitely wouldn't call it a success either.

I find it interesting that people can call the offseason a failure when it's not even over... Reminds me of all those Heat fans who walked out of Game 6.

I'm not saying that the Mavs FO will (or can) make that kind of a comeback, but it certainly is hard to judge something before it's complete.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Teague got a pretty low offer from the Bucks at 4/32. Curious to see what the Hawks do.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/jeff-te...040717485.html

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I find it interesting that people can call the offseason a failure when it's not even over... Reminds me of all those Heat fans who walked out of Game 6.

I'm not saying that the Mavs FO will (or can) make that kind of a comeback, but it certainly is hard to judge something before it's complete.

I don't think people had to wait to see that the Titanic was completely sunk before they realized it was a disaster. It's pretty easy to make some safe educated guesses at this point. Bottom line... the Mavs front office decided to completely overhaul a team that was coming off a title and knowingly waste a year of Dirk's prime..that year has turned into 2 years..

Obviously, they have not accomplished their goal when Cuban and donnie decided that they were head and shoulders smarter than the rest of the league with regards to the CBA.. At this point, there's no way to salvage what they've lost. So no, when you look at just this off season, there is a chance that the off season might not be a failure (a very small chance). But as far as Donnie and Cuban's grand plan that went into place after the championship, there is no other way to categorize it... an absolute failure.

[Murphy3]

The more I look at it..the more that I don't believe that the Mavs roster will be better with one exception..hopefully a healthy Dirk can get back to 20+ points and push the team to a 45 win season or so. But, with the exception of an improved Dirk, I don't really see a better roster. Obviously, I"m just throwing in Dalembert and Wright at center along with another big man of little note..

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Teague got a pretty low offer from the Bucks at 4/32. Curious to see what the Hawks do.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/jeff-te...040717485.html

I'll be stunned if they don't match. It feels to me like the Bucks are just trying to get a handle on the young PG RFA market, keep the prices from getting away from them more than they are necessarily trying to pry Teague away from Atl. If the Hawks match, that's one Jennings suitor out of the way. If they don't, Bucks lock up a good young point guard on a fair deal.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

I don't think people had to wait to see that the Titanic was completely sunk before they realized it was a disaster. It's pretty easy to make some safe educated guesses at this point. Bottom line... the Mavs front office decided to completely overhaul a team that was coming off a title and knowingly waste a year of Dirk's prime..that year has turned into 2 years..

Obviously, they have not accomplished their goal when Cuban and donnie decided that they were head and shoulders smarter than the rest of the league with regards to the CBA.. At this point, there's no way to salvage what they've lost. So no, when you look at just this off season, there is a chance that the off season might not be a failure (a very small chance). But as far as Donnie and Cuban's grand plan that went into place after the championship, there is no other way to categorize it... an absolute failure.

I too have a safe and educated guess. This is in the top 5 of the worst analogies in the history of this place.

You are suggesting that this team is going to be what exactly? What defines success to you? There's a huge difference between the Titanic completely sinking and this team, which is a long way away from even starting the season, much less completing the roster.

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

I don't think people had to wait to see that the Titanic was completely sunk before they realized it was a disaster. It's pretty easy to make some safe educated guesses at this point. Bottom line... the Mavs front office decided to completely overhaul a team that was coming off a title and knowingly waste a year of Dirk's prime..that year has turned into 2 years..

Obviously, they have not accomplished their goal when Cuban and donnie decided that they were head and shoulders smarter than the rest of the league with regards to the CBA.. At this point, there's no way to salvage what they've lost. So no, when you look at just this off season, there is a chance that the off season might not be a failure (a very small chance). But as far as Donnie and Cuban's grand plan that went into place after the championship, there is no other way to categorize it... an absolute failure.

If only I'd frozen JKidd and Jet in carbonite 2011...

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

Huh. Must have been quite a play.

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

The more I look at it..the more that I don't believe that the Mavs roster will be better with one exception..hopefully a healthy Dirk can get back to 20+ points and push the team to a 45 win season or so. But, with the exception of an improved Dirk, I don't really see a better roster. Obviously, I"m just throwing in Dalembert and Wright at center along with another big man of little note..

So if the team had been preserved, this would be your starting 5:

JKidd, oh wait he retired.
Jet (though he technically was our 6 man, 10 PPG and a 12.81 PER last season and Boston was really trying to unload him)
Marion (still have him)
Dirk (still have him)
Chandler (Ok, wish we still had him though he's missed about 20 games in each of the seasons since he's left).

This starting lineup just doesn't look much better at any position except center compared to what the Mavs have done so far this off season. We should've keep Chandler. Beyond that, I'm feeling optimistic...

[oilfieldtrash]

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

So if the team had been preserved, this would be your starting 5:

JKidd, oh wait he retired.
Jet (though he technically was our 6 man, 10 PPG and a 12.81 PER last season and Boston was really trying to unload him)
Marion (still have him)
Dirk (still have him)
Chandler (Ok, wish we still had him though he's missed about 20 games in each of the seasons since he's left).

This starting lineup just doesn't look much better at any position except center compared to what the Mavs have done so far this off season. We should've keep Chandler. Beyond that, I'm feeling optimistic...

____, Barea
Terry
Brewer, Carter
Dirk, Wright
Chandler, Zeller if pick wasnt given away

Not bad actually...

[tsar]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

____, Barea
Terry
Brewer, Carter
Dirk, Wright
Chandler, Zeller if pick wasnt given away

Not bad actually...

That's actually quite terrible. With a decent defensive center added before FA is over our current team is much better than that.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

____, Barea
Terry
Brewer, Carter
Dirk, Wright
Chandler, Zeller if pick wasnt given away

Not bad actually...

Carter: still here.
Wright: probably returning.
Zeller: has nothing to do with blowing up our team, pick probably would've been traded anyway.
Barea: All-NBA PG, so no arguments there - he's definitely worth not chasing Deron, CP3 or Dwight over.

But point taken - you have no point.

[oilfieldtrash]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Carter: still here
Wright: probably returning
Zeller: has nothing to do with blowing up our team, pick would've probably been traded anyway
Barea: I guess this is the one piece that would have put us over the top and helped us repeat, so no arguments there

But point taken - you have no point.

You're just mad you made a fool of yourself by saying Asik was barely an upgrade over Dalembert.

And yes I have no point although it's universally accepted that blowing up the team was a horrible decision and probably the worst play in sports within the last 10 years.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

You're just mad you made a fool of yourself by saying Asik was barely an upgrade over Dalembert.

And yes I have no point although it's universally accepted that blowing up the team was a horrible decision and probably the worst play in sports within the last 10 years.

No where near universally accepted lol

[oilfieldtrash]

Originally Posted by tsar

That's actually quite terrible. With a decent defensive center added before FA is over our current team is much better than that.

Dont forget the 2 years of prime Dirk that was wasted. And sure this current roster is better than the championship core... Sure.

[oilfieldtrash]

Originally Posted by saclare

No where near universally accepted lol

I forget this is the place that was all on board with dry powder and bringing Collison back to 5 mil a year.

[jamaljasonandjimmy]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

Dont forget the 2 years of prime Dirk that was wasted. And sure this current roster is better than the championship core... Sure.

dirk would have sat out most of last year because he had knee surgery

[Eman]

I'd give the offseason a C+/B- assuming we get some kind of better than Kaman center, and it could go up from there depending on the rest of the offseason.

Look, we didn't get Howard, so what? We are much better at Point guard with Calderon/Harris/Larkin/Mekel, much better! Shooting guard with Devin/Carter/Ellington/Ledo better than last year,
small forward with Marion/Crowder/Carter is the same (marion carter maybe worse, crowder maybe better)
Power forward: Dirk (for more than 35 games) and Wright, much better!
Center: Dalembert or Gortat or Asik all better than Kaman

And we are gathering assets instead of gathering powder. We have some good assets at the guard position that could be traded during the season or next off season for a better player.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

I forget this is the place that was all on board with dry powder and bringing Collison back to 5 mil a year.

Give that horse a break. It's been dead for years now.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

You're just mad you made a fool of yourself by saying Asik was barely an upgrade over Dalembert.

I never said that.

Hell, I haven't even mentioned Dalembert on this forum since way back when I wanted the Mavs to go after him and Iggy, which was right before we got Butler/Haywood/Stevenson.

You have a horrible habit of lumping every poster you don't agree with (read: everybody) into one person.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by jamaljasonandjimmy

dirk would have sat out most of last year because he had knee surgery

Shyiiiit, don't let the facts get in the way of a good oilfieldtrash rant!

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

____, Barea
Terry
Brewer, Carter
Dirk, Wright
Chandler, Zeller if pick wasnt given away

Not bad actually...

Barea is a better pure PG backup than Harris, I'll give you that. But Barea ain't ever playing 2. Also excited to (hopefully) see the younger guys we've brought in. So at the SF you actually want to blow-up the championship team shedding Marion? Wright will be coming back. Which leads us to Chandler, the only move IMHO in which Cubes and crew absolutely made the wrong decision.

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

Dont forget the 2 years of prime Dirk that was wasted. And sure this current roster is better than the championship core... Sure.

I don't get the "waste his prime" idea. Unless he proves other wise next season, Dirk is well past his prime. He was statistically past his prime when he won the championship. Best numbers were the '05 and '06 seasons. Doesn't mean I love him less, just keeping it real. If anything, his twilight is being wasted...

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

So if the team had been preserved, this would be your starting 5:

JKidd, oh wait he retired.
Jet (though he technically was our 6 man, 10 PPG and a 12.81 PER last season and Boston was really trying to unload him)
Marion (still have him)
Dirk (still have him)
Chandler (Ok, wish we still had him though he's missed about 20 games in each of the seasons since he's left).

This starting lineup just doesn't look much better at any position except center compared to what the Mavs have done so far this off season. We should've keep Chandler. Beyond that, I'm feeling optimistic...

Wow, obviously it's not an all or nothing proposition.. That's what the Cuban cocksucker club likes to portray it as.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

So if the team had been preserved, this would be your starting 5:

JKidd, oh wait he retired.
Jet (though he technically was our 6 man, 10 PPG and a 12.81 PER last season and Boston was really trying to unload him)
Marion (still have him)
Dirk (still have him)
Chandler (Ok, wish we still had him though he's missed about 20 games in each of the seasons since he's left).

This starting lineup just doesn't look much better at any position except center compared to what the Mavs have done so far this off season. We should've keep Chandler. Beyond that, I'm feeling optimistic...

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I too have a safe and educated guess. This is in the top 5 of the worst analogies in the history of this place.

You are suggesting that this team is going to be what exactly? What defines success to you? There's a huge difference between the Titanic completely sinking and this team, which is a long way away from even starting the season, much less completing the roster.

Actually, my post is 100% spot on.