After Lewis... - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Randall The Great · 07-28-2002, 03:53 PM

Mavs should go after KG. He's said to be available. The T-Wolves love NVE and Finley would allow them to trade Wally. We'd take the oft-injured Brandon off their hands, but stick them with a few of our bad contracts. Both teams make out pretty good in this deal.

Minnesota trades: SF Kevin Garnett (21.2 ppg, 12.1 rpg, 5.2 apg in 39.2 minutes)
PG Terrell Brandon (12.4 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 8.3 apg in 30.1 minutes)
Minnesota receives: C Evan Eschmeyer (2.0 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.3 apg in 9.7 minutes)
PG Avery Johnson (7.9 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 4.2 apg in 19.9 minutes)
SG Tariq Abdul-Wahad (5.6 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 18.4 minutes)
PG Nick Van Exel (18.4 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 6.6 apg in 34.7 minutes)
SG Michael Finley (20.6 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 3.3 apg in 39.9 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +20.9 ppg, +1.4 rpg, and +1.9 apg.

Dallas trades: C Evan Eschmeyer (2.0 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.3 apg in 9.7 minutes)
PG Avery Johnson (7.9 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 4.2 apg in 19.9 minutes)
SG Tariq Abdul-Wahad (5.6 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 18.4 minutes)
PG Nick Van Exel (18.4 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 6.6 apg in 34.7 minutes)
SG Michael Finley (20.6 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 3.3 apg in 39.9 minutes)
Dallas receives: SF Kevin Garnett (21.2 ppg, 12.1 rpg, 5.2 apg in 81 games)
PG Terrell Brandon (12.4 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 8.3 apg in 32 games)
Change in team outlook: -20.9 ppg, -1.4 rpg, and -1.9 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to Minnesota and Dallas being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Minnesota and Dallas had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

seelenjaeger · 07-28-2002, 03:55 PM

sorry, but we had this discussion about three times so far ... go down to see the results

Dooby · 07-28-2002, 04:20 PM

Why can't people's first post be something other than an impossible hypothetical trade?

Rhylan · 07-28-2002, 04:26 PM

At least it's about basketball and has content and reasoning within. Could be much, much worse.

Dooby · 07-28-2002, 04:49 PM

True; I may be overreacting.

As has been said many times: Minnisota will never make a trade that makes Dallas better and Dallas will never make a trade that makes Minnisota better.

Trades between two playoff teams rarely happen; trades between two playoff teams in the same conference are even rarer; trades between two playoff teams in the same division virtually never happen.

This is why I hate realgm. It flashes "Trade Accepted" in green print and it acts as some sort of validation for the submitter. Who cares. It doesn't make it a good trade. It doesn't make it logical.

Yes, we may trade Finley or NVE someday. Yes, Minnisota may trade KG someday (pure idiocy, IMO). As long as one or both even sniff the playoffs, Minnisota and Dallas will never offer a star player to the other.

Dooby · 07-28-2002, 04:54 PM

BTW, as to the merits of the trade, I wouldn't trade both of Dallas's backup PGs for one PG that has a history of injury. Not when I am concerned with Nash's longterm health. You also eliminate your starting two-guard. With no way of replacing him. So you have the exception to go get a 3rd string PG and a starting shooting guard. This trade is undoable.

Rhylan · 07-28-2002, 04:59 PM

Yep. But KG's salary and Wally being Wally has Minnesota totally handcuffed. I share an office with another NBA-head like me. When the Wally-to-the-Knicks trade jibber jabber came out of the NY media, we had a "What can Minnesota do?" discussion. You know what we came up with?

Nothing. They're screwed. They don't have anybody, they don't have any draft picks, and they don't have a point guard. They have KG and a SG in the Top 15 at his position who wants the ball more and thinks he's worth a max deal.

And that's all. And KG's contract has them soooo screwed.

For the next 2-3 years, there's nothing they can do to get out of the first round unless they just play an opponent that underestimates them.

The thing is, that KG is such a good all around talent, that he's going to get them at least to that #7 or #8 spot as long as the rest of the guys aren't scrubs. And they're not. They're just not that good. So... it's going to be more of the same "KG can't get out of the first round" hype, and it's all gonna explode one day.

They're gonna end up having to trade the guy or do something drastic. I don't think it's a bad idea for Dallas to continue to acquire tradeable assets outside of the core in the case that this type of situation occurs with any superstar around the leage. Because you know that the money situation always makes Dallas a possibility.

Randall The Great · 07-28-2002, 05:03 PM

<< True; I may be overreacting.

As has been said many times: Minnisota will never make a trade that makes Dallas better and Dallas will never make a trade that makes Minnisota better. >>

When were you hired as GM of the TWolves? You haven't been? So I guess you wouldn't know. Minnesota is trying to shake things up because the current mix isn't working. Why would the Mavs care if they help improve the TWolves if we improve our team? We're already better than them. Much better. Not because we have Finley and Nick, but because we have Dirk and Nash, who would still be on the team.

<< Trades between two playoff teams rarely happen; trades between two playoff teams in the same conference are even rarer; trades between two playoff teams in the same division virtually never happen.
>>

Again, so what?

<< This is why I hate realgm. It flashes "Trade Accepted" in green print and it acts as some sort of validation for the submitter. Who cares. It doesn't make it a good trade. It doesn't make it logical.
>>

That would be a good trade for both teams. Minnesota gets rid of Brandon and gets a player they like in Nick, not to mention Fin. They can then move Wally for another player or three.

<< Yes, we may trade Finley or NVE someday. Yes, Minnisota may trade KG someday (pure idiocy, IMO). As long as one or both even sniff the playoffs, Minnisota and Dallas will never offer a star player to the other. >>

Mark Cuban would make that trade in a second.

Randall The Great · 07-28-2002, 05:05 PM

<< BTW, as to the merits of the trade, I wouldn't trade both of Dallas's backup PGs for one PG that has a history of injury. Not when I am concerned with Nash's longterm health. You also eliminate your starting two-guard. With no way of replacing him. So you have the exception to go get a 3rd string PG and a starting shooting guard. This trade is undoable. >>

Yeah, I don't know how we could win without Avery Johnson. I'd probably move Rashard to the two (we'd have to have him to make the deal) and put KG at the three.

PeterVecseyisdumb · 07-28-2002, 05:06 PM

<< Mavs should go after KG. He's said to be available. The T-Wolves love NVE and Finley would allow them to trade Wally. We'd take the oft-injured Brandon off their hands, but stick them with a few of our bad contracts. Both teams make out pretty good in this deal.

Minnesota trades: SF Kevin Garnett (21.2 ppg, 12.1 rpg, 5.2 apg in 39.2 minutes)
PG Terrell Brandon (12.4 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 8.3 apg in 30.1 minutes)
Minnesota receives: C Evan Eschmeyer (2.0 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.3 apg in 9.7 minutes)
PG Avery Johnson (7.9 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 4.2 apg in 19.9 minutes)
SG Tariq Abdul-Wahad (5.6 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 18.4 minutes)
PG Nick Van Exel (18.4 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 6.6 apg in 34.7 minutes)
SG Michael Finley (20.6 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 3.3 apg in 39.9 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +20.9 ppg, +1.4 rpg, and +1.9 apg.

Dallas trades: C Evan Eschmeyer (2.0 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.3 apg in 9.7 minutes)
PG Avery Johnson (7.9 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 4.2 apg in 19.9 minutes)
SG Tariq Abdul-Wahad (5.6 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 18.4 minutes)
PG Nick Van Exel (18.4 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 6.6 apg in 34.7 minutes)
SG Michael Finley (20.6 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 3.3 apg in 39.9 minutes)
Dallas receives: SF Kevin Garnett (21.2 ppg, 12.1 rpg, 5.2 apg in 81 games)
PG Terrell Brandon (12.4 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 8.3 apg in 32 games)
Change in team outlook: -20.9 ppg, -1.4 rpg, and -1.9 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to Minnesota and Dallas being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Minnesota and Dallas had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. >>

I think this would be a great trade for dallas and a bad trade for minnesota. Minnesota would be giving away one of the best players in the nba, right now. KG is about 26 years old. MInnesota would be getting finley, who is a 29 year old shooting guard who gets the max. Minnesota would also get nick van exel who is about 31 years old. Minnesota would be getting tariq abdul wahad and his big contract. I don't think this trade makes minnesota better, right now. Also, minnesota probably won't be contending for the nba championship any time soon, so long term, it doesn't make any sense for minnesota to make this trade.

Don't get me wrong. As a mavs fan, I would love it if dallas could make this trade. However, I don't see it happening. This trade doesn't make any sense for minnesota.

David · 07-28-2002, 08:31 PM

<< When were you hired as GM of the TWolves? You haven't been? So I guess you wouldn't know. >>

I've never been a fan of this line of reasoning. One reason is, you came up with a trade scenario for BOTH Dallas and Minnesota, as if you are the GM of BOTH teams. That is, AS IF, you know what BOTH teams would want to do in a trade. That, IN ITSELF, opens your trade up to doubt and disagreement.

Drbio · 07-28-2002, 10:22 PM

Hello Randall. This guy has been around a while. He's a moderator on an old Mavs site and a bothersome tool on Newberg. He used to play in some of my sandbox leagues and when he got below 5th (which was almost instantly every season) he quit like a yahoo. Anyway, welcome Randall.

Murphy3 · 07-28-2002, 10:25 PM

you don't make the trade because of the backup PG situation?

...hmm, the mavs can come up with a third PG..not too big of a deal.

besides, if you had a chance to add a KG to Dirk, Nash and Raef.. that would be too hard to pass up.

Just211 · 07-28-2002, 10:28 PM

Minnesota would not make this trade, it's basically NVE and Fin for KG. AJ and TAW aren't worth anything as far as trading.
It might be almost close to fair, but does it make Minnesota better: NO

If Minnesota ever trades KG, they'll probably get players with the talent of NVE and FIN, but they'll also get some young prospects and/or picks

FilthyFinMavs · 07-28-2002, 10:43 PM

How does this not make the Twolves better? They get over 50 points combined for 21 points. I dont like this trade at all im just gonna stick with the mavs signing Lewis and see how far that goes. This trade is more of a impossibility than signing Lewis for the exception. I dont think Cuban does this basically because this is just to many players to be trading to win a championship. We will end up like the Portland Trailblazers soon if we keep on trying to trade to get a championship.

Just211 · 07-28-2002, 10:56 PM

<< How does this not make the Twolves better? They get over 50 points combined for 21 points >>

Minnesota after trade

pg NVE
sg Wally?
sf Fin
PF Marc Jackson?
C Esch?

Avery,Mitchell,Nesterovic,Pack,Trent,Lopez are all FA's

That's a lot of points sure, but who's on the interior. You think they would trade their best player and not get anybody to replace him in return? If they traded him it would be to someone like Chicago or LAclippers for Chandler or Curry or Olowakandi or Brand and many more of their players and or future picks, not two close to 30 gaurds

kg_veteran · 07-28-2002, 10:58 PM

Randall, is that you? The same guy that used to rail against Juwan and call him "Mr. Herpes"? randallc02? Man, good to have you here. You were always an intelligent poster, even if you were wrong a lot of the time. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

And yes, this is an impossible hypothetical trade, but why not? It is the offseason, after all...

FilthyFinMavs · 07-28-2002, 11:05 PM

<<

<< How does this not make the Twolves better? They get over 50 points combined for 21 points >>

Minnesota after trade

pg NVE
sg Wally?
sf Fin
PF Marc Jackson?
C Esch?

Avery,Mitchell,Nesterovic,Pack,Trent,Lopez are all FA's

That's a lot of points sure, but who's on the interior. You think they would trade their best player and not get anybody to replace him in return? If they traded him it would be to someone like Chicago or LAclippers for Chandler or Curry or Olowakandi or Brand and many more of their players and or future picks, not two close to 30 gaurds >>

Just211 read my post again. I didnt say Twolves would do this trade I said how wouldnt this make them any better. I dont do this trade for neither teams.

FilthyFinMavs · 07-28-2002, 11:08 PM

<< Randall, is that you? The same guy that used to rail against Juwan and call him "Mr. Herpes"? randallc02? Man, good to have you here. You were always an intelligent poster, even if you were wrong a lot of the time. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

And yes, this is an impossible hypothetical trade, but why not? It is the offseason, after all... >>

Oh KG, that story on Juwan Howard was a bit delightful LMAO. I just Randall has matured some atleast being how immature he was during the days when we had Juwan.

Just211 · 07-28-2002, 11:12 PM

My Bad Filthy Fin, I don't like Threads that mention Fin gettin traded, makes me jumpy

FilthyFinMavs · 07-28-2002, 11:17 PM

<< My Bad Filthy Fin, I don't like Threads that mention Fin gettin traded, makes me jumpy >>

Just21, I agree lol Fin is my favorite Maverick and has been for several years and to see one of ur favorite players leave is the worst thing that can happen to a fan. I get upset too when I see people wanting to trade Finley when he istn the problem on this team at all. We need interior defense and I think its ashame that people make up stupid ass trades just to get a superstar this squad. Im for building a championship not buying one. Ask the Trailblazers how it is.

UberDirk · 07-28-2002, 11:20 PM

People wanting to trade Finley are nuts, unless you get a ben wallace or something, leave Mike put.

Randall The Great · 07-29-2002, 12:29 AM

<< Hello Randall. This guy has been around a while. He's a moderator on an old Mavs site and a bothersome tool on Newberg. He used to play in some of my sandbox leagues and when he got below 5th (which was almost instantly every season) he quit like a yahoo. Anyway, welcome Randall. >>

Thank you for that warm welcome. I rarely post at Newberg's board, if ever anymore. ESPN has more heated debates and discussions.

Don't have time for fantasy sports. I've quit everyone I've been apart of, even those I was winning. Just don't have time. Plus, they bore me. Don't remember playing with you. Don't know who you are.

Dooby · 07-29-2002, 07:38 AM

<< I've never been a fan of this line of reasoning. One reason is, you came up with a trade scenario for BOTH Dallas and Minnesota, as if you are the GM of BOTH teams. That is, AS IF, you know what BOTH teams would want to do in a trade. That, IN ITSELF, opens your trade up to doubt and disagreement. >>

David, correct me if I am wrong, didn't you use similar logic in a debate against Murph?

Drbio · 07-29-2002, 09:09 AM

Randall- I'm Doc. Or Kelly's Team. I've been drbio or Doc for many many years though. We played 2 baseballs and I think 2 football leagues. Anyway, welcome.

Murphy3 · 07-29-2002, 09:25 AM

i hesitate to say "welcome to the board" to any new member.. because i never know how long some of them are going to last before they have to be removed from the board. but, i guess i'll go ahead and give you the benefit of the doubt.

welcome

David · 07-29-2002, 05:15 PM

<<

<< I've never been a fan of this line of reasoning. One reason is, you came up with a trade scenario for BOTH Dallas and Minnesota, as if you are the GM of BOTH teams. That is, AS IF, you know what BOTH teams would want to do in a trade. That, IN ITSELF, opens your trade up to doubt and disagreement. >>

David, correct me if I am wrong, didn't you use similar logic in a debate against Murph? >>

I have no idea. I would have to see the context of the discussion.

Murphy3 · 07-29-2002, 08:44 PM

uhm....well, david. it wasn't exactly like that

you weren't saying what nellie was thinking..
i was merely giving my opinion and you were saying that i'm not the GM.

so, it was a bit different of a situation.

Smiles · 07-29-2002, 10:25 PM

<< Randall- I'm Doc. Or Kelly's Team. I've been drbio or Doc for many many years though. We played 2 baseballs and I think 2 football leagues. Anyway, welcome. >>

Hi Randall. Remember me? Welcome to the board.

No, I don't suppose you'd remember... just one very long debate about how Bradley would do in this past season.

Looks like you were right afterall. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

David · 07-30-2002, 05:34 AM

<< uhm....well, david. it wasn't exactly like that

you weren't saying what nellie was thinking..
i was merely giving my opinion and you were saying that i'm not the GM.

so, it was a bit different of a situation. >>

I think any remarks I made like that were more in the nature of me picking Nelson's GMing over that of the average fan. I don't recall making any detailed trade scenarios and then taking offense when someone disagreed, as in this instance with R the G.