The"Crap, it didn't happen..but it was awesome to think of" thread

[AO41]

Lol...Lin is doing a great job. But to me this is a no brainer...D Will all day

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

Thanks. I still think it would be easy to trade Marion, and everybody else is either on a cheap contract, or an expiring/unguaranteed. Man, if only Dirk could reconstruct his contract. We would probably be the heavy favorite to land those guys, i honestly think Dirk would be all right to get MLE type of money for the rest of his career, in order to get those 2. It's so stupid btw, if a player think he wants to help his team this way, why can't he do that?

Marion will be easy to trade, at his current level of play. I was really wrong about that at the beginning of the season.

However, Marion will not be "easy" to trade and not take any money back. That's going to be a bit more difficult. I think it will be doable, but his level of play the rest of the way will dictate how much extra juice we have to send with him (if any) to get a team to take him without sending anything back.

[rabbitproof]

Is the only way to not get anything back to find a team with a TE or cap space to absorb?

Getting that list of teams would be a good starting point. The cap space list is going to change, possibly at the break, but I imagine the TE list ought to stay fairly static - would be good to know when the big ones expire, too. Marion is due 8.7M per Hoopshype.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

Is the only way to not get anything back to find a team with a TE or cap space to absorb?

Getting that list of teams would be a good starting point. The cap space list is going to change, possibly at the break, but I imagine the TE list ought to stay fairly static - would be good to know when the big ones expire, too. Marion is due 8.7M per Hoopshype.

Yes, a TE or cap space is the route to go. I believe there are quite a few teams scheduled to have ample cap space next summer.

There is also the possibility that they could find a team over the cap that sends them a much smaller salary. I believe the new rules allow for a 150% or 5Mil difference in salaries, so they could theoretically take back a player making 3.7 and shave 5 Mil off their cap.

[nowhereman]

Trading Marion for a trade exception right now may be difficult - because this is a non-simultaneous trade, they need to have a trade exception equal to or greater than 100% of Marion's salary (+$100,000).

According to http://www.shamsports.com/, the only two teams with a trade exception large enough to absorb this now are (ironically) the Lakers, with an $8.9 million TPE for Odom, and the Jazz, with a $10.89 million TPE for Okur.

Unfortunately, since Trade Exceptions expire after a year, the Cavs and Raptors both have already lost their trade exceptions for James & Bosh (according to http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/73...tions-expiring)

[nowhereman]

Note that Cubes can't give cash to make salaries match in a TPE-for-Marion trade. https://webfiles.uci.edu/lcoon/cbafaq/salarycap.htm#Q85

[rabbitproof]

Great stuff, forum.

Lucky for us, a recent article on cap space:
http://www.hoopsworld.com/whose-got-cap-space

For next year, the possible suspects (I just used 45M as a cutoff) are:
Celtics
Blazers
Hornets
Suns
Nets
Rockets
Wizards
Raptors
Cavs
Kings
Pacers

Numbers wise, adding LA and Utah, it's pushing a good half of the league that could take Marion for free (since 45M is cutting it low). A lot are probably in rebuild mode and not interested in Marion but there should be some good partners. As they say, all you need is one.

[mavs777]

I could definitely see Marion going to Toronto, I believe he had a pretty good time there, we work well their front office, they could definitely use a SF, also of course Casey. Lastly im a bit biased cause im rooting for casey and the raptors now.

[jthig32]

For what it's worth, Stephen A. was on Mike and Mike this morning, and he was very emphatic that Billy King and the rest of the league knows that if the Nets don't land Dwight, Deron is going to Dallas. He could not have been more convinced.

So take that for what it's worth. Stephen A is a beating, and has absolutely no ability to analyze basketball, but he does seem to have sources. He was way out in front of everybody on the Miami trio.

Of course, things like this will just make it even more devastating if Howard gets traded to NJ before the 15th.

[rabbitproof]

Originally Posted by jthig32

For what it's worth, Stephen A. was on Mike and Mike this morning, and he was very emphatic that Billy King and the rest of the league knows that if the Nets don't land Dwight, Deron is going to Dallas. He could not have been more convinced.

So take that for what it's worth. Stephen A is a beating, and has absolutely no ability to analyze basketball, but he does seem to have sources. He was way out in front of everybody on the Miami trio.

Of course, things like this will just make it even more devastating if Howard gets traded to NJ before the 15th.

SAS alone is meaningless but to know SAS is that adamant after Simmons proclaiming DWill to Dallas is a done deal is very... reassuring and *coughcough* Miami-like *coughcough*.

By land, I assume they mean by trade or FA though. As it's been well noted, Dwight and Deron are opting out no matter what.

[jthig32]

I gotta say, there's a big part of me that wants to see the Lakers go ahead and land Howard right at the deadline. In fact, if they traded for Howard and it cost them Bynum and Gasol, I would openly cheer it.

I just think Howard to NJ as a free agent makes too much sense. And at this point, with all of the buzz around Deron and Dallas, I think I'd be willing to accept Howard going to the Lakers if it essentially guarantees us Deron.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I gotta say, there's a big part of me that wants to see the Lakers go ahead and land Howard right at the deadline. In fact, if they traded for Howard and it cost them Bynum and Gasol, I would openly cheer it.

I just think Howard to NJ as a free agent makes too much sense. And at this point, with all of the buzz around Deron and Dallas, I think I'd be willing to accept Howard going to the Lakers if it essentially guarantees us Deron.

I'll drink to that...

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I gotta say, there's a big part of me that wants to see the Lakers go ahead and land Howard right at the deadline. In fact, if they traded for Howard and it cost them Bynum and Gasol, I would openly cheer it.

I just think Howard to NJ as a free agent makes too much sense. And at this point, with all of the buzz around Deron and Dallas, I think I'd be willing to accept Howard going to the Lakers if it essentially guarantees us Deron.

I think the Mavs have a good chance at both if he makes it to the deadline untraded, but I would also be quite fine with this. For sure.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I gotta say, there's a big part of me that wants to see the Lakers go ahead and land Howard right at the deadline. In fact, if they traded for Howard and it cost them Bynum and Gasol, I would openly cheer it.

I just think Howard to NJ as a free agent makes too much sense. And at this point, with all of the buzz around Deron and Dallas, I think I'd be willing to accept Howard going to the Lakers if it essentially guarantees us Deron.

Read an article about how anything relating to Phil Jackson was dumped. Even guys that have been there 30 years, just dumped. Buss' son is running day to day things and seems nepotism is running rampant in the organization. Scouting department is made of 3 people, one Buss, one horseracing buddy of Buss'. Now with the front office in chaos, does someone there, force Kupchak to get Howard no matter the cost.

[Kidd Karma]

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/1...g-front-office

[oilfieldtrash]

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/1...g-front-office

lol that place is a wreck

Joey Buss, another son of the owner who runs the team's D-League franchise, has moved into Jackson's old office. Jesse Buss, 23, who was arrested for alcohol intoxication in Lexington, Ky., on a "scouting" trip in December, has moved into Lester's former office.

[LonghornDub]

I really think, though, that the sell of a much better coach, a better owner, and a MUCH better 3rd guy (Dirk) will be at play in the offseason. Plus, everything I'm reading (even today) hints that Deron has been and may always be frustrated that the Nets are second-fiddle to the Knicks, no matter what. He may realize that not even Dwight can change that.

Frankly, this Jeremy Lin explosion could really help push Deron out of NJ. A guy who plays Deron's position and isn't as good as Deron has gotten more attention in 2 weeks than Deron's gotten in years, including during the surprise trade from Utah.

*edit to fix how horribly written and unclear this post was originally*

[rabbitproof]

Ensuring DWill's delivery to Dallas would be awesome as a bird in hand is worth two in the bush.

3D is sooooooooooooooooooooooooo tempting though...

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I really think, though, that the sell of a much better coach, a better owner, and a MUCH better 3rd guy (Dirk) will be at play in the offseason. Plus, everything I'm reading (even today) hints that Deron has been and may always be frustrated that the Nets are second-fiddle to the Knicks, no matter what. He may realize that not even Dwight can change that.

Frankly, this Jeremy Lin explosion could really help push Deron out of NJ. A guy who plays Deron's position and isn't as good as Deron has gotten more attention in 2 weeks than Deron's gotten in years, including during the surprise trade from Utah.

*edit to fix how horribly written and unclear this post was originally*

There was an article about a month ago that basically said while NJ is a realistic landing spot for Dwight to join Deron they wont go there without their being second tier guys that can help the team win, in other words they don't want to go to a place where its 2 players+ trash,

[endrity]

Originally Posted by mavs777

There was an article about a month ago that basically said while NJ is a realistic landing spot for Dwight to join Deron they wont go there without their being second tier guys that can help the team win, in other words they don't want to go to a place where its 2 players+ trash,

Makes sense. Not when you have the Big Three in Miami, another Big Two with the Knicks, a much more complete team in Chicago, and a Big Two plus other nice pieces in OKC. Those two by themselves guarantee absolutely nothing. They would need other pieces, and Dallas provides them.

[PartywithDirk]

D@mmit you guys are getting my hopes up again....If they get crushed, yet another time, I expect all of you to chip in on my therapy bills.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by mavs777

There was an article about a month ago that basically said while NJ is a realistic landing spot for Dwight to join Deron they wont go there without their being second tier guys that can help the team win, in other words they don't want to go to a place where its 2 players+ trash,

Yep, Williams sees that now with what NJ has, Howard has seen it with Orlando for the last 3 years. The only team in the NBA over the past 10 years to desire a winner on and off the floor have been the Mavs. Sure without Dirk, is another story, but Dirk, nor Cuban, nor Nelson are not going any where. There's a proven track record here. NJ has proven nothing, Orlando has proven nothing.

[sefant77]

Someone correct me if im wrong but we also could kill Odoms (or Carters) guaranteed contract money with sending them to a team under the cap and send up to 3M in cash with.

Team under the cap gets 3M, buys out Odom for 2.4M and earned 600k for nothing (+ maybe a 2nd pick etc).

Too bad the new CBA limited the sending cash in trades or for buying picks to 3M for an entire season:

Trade rules

• 2005 CBA: Teams over the cap can acquire no more than 125 percent plus $100,000 of the salaries they trade away. A team can receive up to $3 million cash in any trade.

• 2011 CBA: Taxpaying teams can acquire no more than 125 percent plus $100,000 of the salaries they trade away (same as 2005 CBA). Non-taxpaying teams (based on their post-trade salary level) can acquire up to the lesser of 150 percent plus $100,000, or 100 percent plus $5 million of the salaries they trade away. The cash a team pays or receives in trade is limited to $3 million annually.

• Who benefits? The relaxation of the salary matching requirements will facilitate player movement. The addition of the provision that allows teams to acquire up to 100 percent plus $5 million of the salaries of its traded players will also reduce "trade ballast" -- extra players thrown into a deal merely to make a trade legal. The number of crazy trades should therefore be reduced.

The limitation of cash in trades (to $3 million annually) will have a big effect on draft-pick trades. It is now common for first-round picks to be sold for up to $3 million each prior to the draft. By limiting teams to $3 million annually, these trades will be reduced.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Someone correct me if im wrong but we also could kill Odoms (or Carters) guaranteed contract money with sending them to a team under the cap and send up to 3M in cash with.

Team under the cap gets 3M, buys out Odom for 2.4M and earned 600k for nothing (+ maybe a 2nd pick etc).

Too bad the new CBA limited the sending cash in trades or for buying picks to 3M for an entire season:

the problem is that they instituted that "Cuban rule" so instead of sending 3mil with every trade you can only total 3mill in a season. Other than I'm fine. Odom may have some trade value but if we are going all or nothing this summer (triple-D'ing down) then we'd have to trade Odom's semi-expiring for another expiring and why people would trade an expiring Odom for an expiring of greater value, I have no idea.

But yeah, I think that is the most likely situation for Odom. I also think it will cost us at least a second rounder too. Cap space has become extremely valuable.

[jthig32]

The problem with Odom is that his option will have to be picked up or declined very early in the off season, so trading him to a team and letting them cut him may not be that easy.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by jthig32

The problem with Odom is that his option will have to be picked up or declined very early in the off season, so trading him to a team and letting them cut him may not be that easy.

Shamsports say 29th june for the waiving or its fully guaranteed. Carters deadline is the 30th june. Two million guaranteed and a 10% trade kicker

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Shamsports say 29th june for the waiving or its fully guaranteed. Carters deadline is the 30th june. Two million guaranteed and a 10% trade kicker

Each of Carter's final two years are guaranteed at two million, but don't forget that we can use the new stretch provision on Carter and stretch out that cost over five years. So he'd only count $800,000 against the cap.

I think that's why Carter came here. He's essentially getting 7Mil guaranteed this season, with 4Mil of it deferred and the very likely opportunity to double dip next season. Meanwhile the Mavs cap is only on the hook for what basically amounts to a veteran minimum contract moving forward.

[OneLove22]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Someone correct me if im wrong but we also could kill Odoms (or Carters) guaranteed contract money with sending them to a team under the cap and send up to 3M in cash with.

Team under the cap gets 3M, buys out Odom for 2.4M and earned 600k for nothing (+ maybe a 2nd pick etc).

Too bad the new CBA limited the sending cash in trades or for buying picks to 3M for an entire season:

So why can't we just buy out Odom for $3 mil?

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by OneLove22

So why can't we just buy out Odom for $3 mil?

Because his 2.4M guaranteed money would count against our caproom.

We need to trade him to a team that is under the cap and is able to take his 8.2M salary because then they dont have to send us salary/contracts back. Then they buy him out, the 2.4M will count against their cap. But they are fine with this because they are not planning or expecting to use/be able to spend their cap room in the bigger free agents (= crappy team like Cleveland, Washington etc). They earn some momey and a pick with basically "lending" us their caproom to dump a player.

We did something like that in the complicated Marion deal. We traded them Stack and gave them the money + some extra for his buyout so the Marion trade could go through. Not to dump a contract for cap space but to tmake a trade happen.

July 9, 2009: In a 4-team trade, the Dallas Mavericks traded Jerry Stackhouse and cash to the Memphis Grizzlies; the Dallas Mavericks traded cash to the Orlando Magic; the Dallas Mavericks traded Devean George and Antoine Wright to the Toronto Raptors; the Memphis Grizzlies traded Greg Buckner to the Dallas Mavericks; the Orlando Magic traded Hedo Turkoglu to the Toronto Raptors; the Toronto Raptors traded Kris Humphries, Nathan Jawai and Shawn Marion to the Dallas Mavericks; the Toronto Raptors traded a 2016 2nd round draft pick to the Memphis Grizzlies; and the Toronto Raptors traded cash to the Orlando Magic.

[OneLove22]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Because his 2.4M guaranteed money would count against our caproom.

We need to trade him to a team that is under the cap and is able to take his 8.2M salary because then they dont have to send us salary/contracts back. Then they buy him out, the 2.4M will count against their cap. But they are fine with this because they are not planning or expecting to use/be able to spend their cap room in the bigger free agents (= crappy team like Cleveland, Washington etc). They earn some momey and a pick with basically "lending" us their caproom to dump a player.

We did something like that in the complicated Marion deal. We traded them Stack and gave them the money + some extra for his buyout so the Marion trade could go through. Not to dump a contract for cap space but to tmake a trade happen.

July 9, 2009: In a 4-team trade, the Dallas Mavericks traded Jerry Stackhouse and cash to the Memphis Grizzlies; the Dallas Mavericks traded cash to the Orlando Magic; the Dallas Mavericks traded Devean George and Antoine Wright to the Toronto Raptors; the Memphis Grizzlies traded Greg Buckner to the Dallas Mavericks; the Orlando Magic traded Hedo Turkoglu to the Toronto Raptors; the Toronto Raptors traded Kris Humphries, Nathan Jawai and Shawn Marion to the Dallas Mavericks; the Toronto Raptors traded a 2016 2nd round draft pick to the Memphis Grizzlies; and the Toronto Raptors traded cash to the Orlando Magic.

Ah makes sense.

[jthig32]

Take it for what it's worth:

One person in the Nets organization who is not directly connected to negotiations with Williams offered his opinion on the star's intentions, saying he doesn't think there's any chance the guard stays with New Jersey. He also thought the team would be wise to come to grips with that and trade him before the March 15 deadline.

Source

[markus1234]

NYC=MSG+LIN

Thx god Deron realized it.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Take it for what it's worth:



Source

What a tasty little treat.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Take it for what it's worth:

Source

I like how that article was trying to make a case for Deron signing with Boston, but in the end, it really made more of a case for him to come to Dallas...

[rabbitproof]

I hope they don't come to gripes with that and keep him past March 15.

[mavs777]

Deron's not going to sign in Boston.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

I hope they don't come to gripes with that and keep him past March 15.

I think them trading him to just about anywhere but LA helps our chances to sign him.

[CapitanObvious]

Would y'all trade Lamar/Marion and Boob (probably a pick or 2 for D.Will?

Cause it works: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

I know i am dreaming but with this Nets get Cap Room next year, potential in Roddy and a proven player in the Matrix.

Dallas gets Deron and gets to sigh Dwight offseason.

Dreaming. But Sometimes dreams come true...

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by CapitanObvious

Would y'all trade Lamar/Marion and Boob (probably a pick or 2 for D.Will?

Cause it works: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

I know i am dreaming but with this Nets get Cap Room next year, potential in Roddy and a proven player in the Matrix.

Dallas gets Deron and gets to sigh Dwight offseason.

Dreaming. But Sometimes dreams come true...

Marion/Odom/Roddy for Deron Williams? Yeah, I'd do that in a heartbeat, especially since shipping Marion would free up more cap space to sign Dwight Howard.

Not sure why New Jersey would do that though - they'd be taking back more salary and a longer contract in Marion just to get Roddy. They can do better...

[b_o_r]

Originally Posted by CapitanObvious

Would y'all trade Lamar/Marion and Boob (probably a pick or 2 for D.Will?

Cause it works: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

I know i am dreaming but with this Nets get Cap Room next year, potential in Roddy and a proven player in the Matrix.

Dallas gets Deron and gets to sigh Dwight offseason.

Dreaming. But Sometimes dreams come true...

There is no need for the Magic or Nets to trade either player at this time because they hold their Birds rights. I doubt both players come here on a salary cut. I still believe Howard goes to the Lakers in July on a S'n'T for Bynum and picks. Howard wants media attention and he is not going to get it in Dallas.