Who thinks.... - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

kg_veteran · 08-22-2003, 05:14 PM

Who thinks that either Quincy Carter or Chad Hutchinson has a future in this league as a starter?

If you do, please post and state only which guy you think has a future. I really don't care why you think it. I just want to be able to ridicule you in the not-so-distant future. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

Dooby · 08-22-2003, 05:18 PM

As if 5 threads on Dallas QB's on the first page weren't enough.

Neither of these guys have the potential to be starters in this league.

kg_veteran · 08-22-2003, 05:24 PM

Dooby, I'm determined to get to the heart of the matter. If someone thinks they do have that potential, I want to know. If they don't, then WTF is everyone arguing for?

Big Boy Laroux · 08-22-2003, 05:57 PM

wait, the dallas QBs suck? i swear i've heard that somewhere before...

FINtastic · 08-22-2003, 05:58 PM

Q has a future to be the 20th - 25th best QB in the league. I don't think he will ever be one of the top 10 best QB's, but I think he can be okay. I've got the balls to step up and vouch for my guy. Call me out if you want.

Drbio · 08-22-2003, 06:35 PM

It's simple really. They BOTH suck! It's not hard. it's just one dumbass who can't take any criticism of his favorite player that is not getting this fact.

FilthyFinMavs · 08-22-2003, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: FINtastic
Q has a future to be the 20th - 25th best QB in the league. I don't think he will ever be one of the top 10 best QB's, but I think he can be okay. I've got the balls to step up and vouch for my guy. Call me out if you want.

I agree. I think he can be a top 30 qb which doesn't say much but it means that he is atleast better than all second stringers or some for that matter. I think Carter has improved and I have faith in Parcells that if he gives Quincy 1 playbook to learn and stick with it he might end up being a top 30 qb. Parcells obviously sees something in the guy.

mavsfanforever · 08-22-2003, 08:51 PM

I would not pick either of them for my fantasy team even in the 17 round.

I do not think either of them have a future and I wouldn't be surprised if the cowboys get either a veteran qb next year or probably draft a qb. I heard next year's draft has a lot of good QBs.

FilthyFinMavs · 08-22-2003, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: mavsfanforever
I would not pick either of them for my fantasy team even in the 17 round.

I do not think either of them have a future and I wouldn't be surprised if the cowboys get either a veteran qb next year or probably draft a qb. I heard next year's draft has a lot of good QBs.

Hopefully some in the 2nd or 3rd round. I'd love to go out and get some offensive lineman because regardless of the qb they will not be successful with this o-line.

XERXES · 08-22-2003, 09:42 PM

Hutchison has started 9 games. I think he has more of an upside than Quincy (this is pure speculation on my part - I admit that - and I may ultimately be proven wrong - and I can live with that)...I'd just like to go back and see Aikman's stats after 9 starts...

XERXES · 08-22-2003, 09:50 PM

In his 1st season he played 11 games, completed 52.9% of his passes, 9 TD's, 18 int's, with a QB rating of just over 55.

Dooby · 08-22-2003, 10:05 PM

When people talk about QB Rating, particularly when it applies to Hutch or a player someone compares to Hutch, it is important to point out that fumbles are not part of QB rating.

mavsfanforever · 08-22-2003, 10:23 PM

I have reached a stage where Hutch and Qcarr discussion is giving me headache. I will blindly trust Bill's decision now.

EricaLubarsky · 08-28-2003, 09:33 PM

not me

OutletPass · 08-29-2003, 12:28 AM

neither, kg. Simple as that.

Tony tha Mavs fan · 08-29-2003, 12:58 AM

I think Hutch can be a starter, only because of his strong arm. Sacks are usually dependant on how good the Offensive line is.. Chutch is trying to rebuild his football career and was thrown into the NFL too soon, a guy who hasn't played football in 3 years usually isn't a starter for any NFL team.

I think it's possible Quincey can be an effective player in the NFL, he's just gotta get a tighter spiral, and lift alot of weights.

kg_veteran · 09-08-2003, 03:27 PM

Bump to allow any of the three that answered in the affirmative a chance to gracefully retract.

Ummmmm Ok · 09-08-2003, 03:37 PM

Right now, I have seen enough of Quincy to say that he is not starter QB material. I would have to go with Hutch strictly because he knows how to throw a football, unlike Quincy. If Hutch can just figure out how to tuck the ball and just take the sack.

FilthyFinMavs · 09-08-2003, 03:41 PM

I won't change my statement over 1 game. Thats idiotic. I'll happily change my statement after 15 games from now.

dirno2000 · 09-08-2003, 03:44 PM

Kordell Stuart, Jeff Blake and Jake Plummer are starters in this league. Why couldn't they be? It's still too early to tell. Look at yesterday's box scores and you will see, Dallas doesn't have the market cornered on bad quarterbacking. In in the Dale Hanson school of opinion. It's too early to tell. In the words of the great Jim Mora (not a great coach, but a quote machine) "You think you know, but you don't know".

kg_veteran · 09-08-2003, 03:44 PM

Not asking you to do it over one game. It should come from your cumulative experience of watching his horrid play. But there will come a point at which I don't let anyone back off these statements. I was just allowing a way out before that reality occurs.

Murphy3 · 09-08-2003, 03:46 PM

it's also idiotic to believe that any of us have changed our statements based on one game.. surely you wouldn't do that, would you ffm? You wouldn't believe that about any of us, now would you?

anyways, i believe QCar has a future with the Sasser brothers asking people if "they would like fries with their burger" working at the local Mickey D's.

Hutch, he might not have a future, but in my opinion, it's still a bit too early to tell. will he pan out? probably not. will QCar? Almost definitely not.

kg_veteran · 09-08-2003, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Kordell Stuart, Jeff Blake and Jake Plummer are starters in this league. Why couldn't they be? It's still too early to tell. Look at yesterday's box scores and you will see, Dallas doesn't have the market cornered on bad quarterbacking. In in the Dale Hanson school of opinion. It's too early to tell. In the words of the great Jim Mora (not a great coach, but a quote machine) "You think you know, but you don't know".

Good. Now there are FOUR people who have backed Quincy in this thread. Four people for me to mock at the end of the season. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

This is a typical argument made in favor of crap. "Well, it doesn't stink as badly as the other guy's crap." Or, "My crap doesn't stink any worse than his." Look, crap is crap, and if a player sucks ass, they suck ass.

And Quincy sucks ass.

Also, don't misquote greatness. Mora said, "You think you know. But you really don't. And you never will." In this case, those that don't know already will soon.

FilthyFinMavs · 09-08-2003, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3
it's also idiotic to believe that any of us have changed our statements based on one game.. surely you wouldn't do that, would you ffm? You wouldn't believe that about any of us, now would you?

anyways, i believe QCar has a future with the Sasser brothers asking people if "they would like fries with their burger" working at the local Mickey D's.

Hutch, he might not have a future, but in my opinion, it's still a bit too early to tell. will he pan out? probably not. will QCar? Almost definitely not.

Thats my problem with people who think Quincy will fail. They seem to turn around and say Hutch will have a future. That may be true but you can't say Hutch has a future and Quincy doesn't. Hutch has got to atleast play well in preseason for me to say he has a future as a 3rd stringer.

kg_veteran · 09-08-2003, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Hutch, he might not have a future, but in my opinion, it's still a bit too early to tell. will he pan out? probably not. will QCar? Almost definitely not.

Thankfully, you didn't affirmatively say that Hutch does have a future in this league. Otherwise, the number would go to five.

kg_veteran · 09-08-2003, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Thats my problem with people who think Quincy will fail. They seem to turn around and say Hutch will have a future. That may be true but you can't say Hutch has a future and Quincy doesn't. Hutch has got to atleast play well in preseason for me to say he has a future as a 3rd stringer.

Read again. He said he probably wouldn't pan out. Believe me, I'm looking for anyone that says EITHER guy has a future, and I'd give Murph hell if he did. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

FilthyFinMavs · 09-08-2003, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: kg_veteran

Quote:

Kordell Stuart, Jeff Blake and Jake Plummer are starters in this league. Why couldn't they be? It's still too early to tell. Look at yesterday's box scores and you will see, Dallas doesn't have the market cornered on bad quarterbacking. In in the Dale Hanson school of opinion. It's too early to tell. In the words of the great Jim Mora (not a great coach, but a quote machine) "You think you know, but you don't know".

Good. Now there are FOUR people who have backed Quincy in this thread. Four people for me to mock at the end of the season. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

This is a typical argument made in favor of crap. "Well, it doesn't stink as badly as the other guy's crap." Or, "My crap doesn't stink any worse than his." Look, crap is crap, and if a player sucks ass, they suck ass.

And Quincy sucks ass.

Also, don't misquote greatness. Mora said, "You think you know. But you really don't. And you never will." In this case, those that don't know already will soon.

When I and others bring up what other qb's did last year it doesn't mean that Quincy is a better qb than them nor does it mean we should excuse that Carter played bad. All we are saying is that no one is saying Favre is going downhill because of his poor performance yesterday. No one is asking for Tom Brady's backup qb. All we our saying is that it is 1 game. Thats all. QCar played bad. Every qb is going to have there bad nights. As you see alot had there bad nights on the first day of football.

FilthyFinMavs · 09-08-2003, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: kg_veteran

Quote:

Thats my problem with people who think Quincy will fail. They seem to turn around and say Hutch will have a future. That may be true but you can't say Hutch has a future and Quincy doesn't. Hutch has got to atleast play well in preseason for me to say he has a future as a 3rd stringer.

Read again. He said he probably wouldn't pan out. Believe me, I'm looking for anyone that says EITHER guy has a future, and I'd give Murph hell if he did. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

He said it is to early to tell on Hutch. Thats no worse than me saying Hutch has a future in this league. Actually it is worse.

dirno2000 · 09-08-2003, 03:56 PM

The question was do they have futures as starting QB's in the league, not future All Pro's. My point is that about half the guys in the league "suck". Somebody has to start.

I was at that game yesterday and I didn't see anything to make me say he can't be a starting QB. He made some good throws and he made some bad throws. He is now in the perfect situation (at least has close as he will have). If at the end of the year he hasn't shown he can move the offense the Cowboys will move on.

Drbio · 09-08-2003, 03:57 PM

Quote:

When I and others bring up what other qb's did last year it doesn't mean that Quincy is a better qb than them nor does it mean we should excuse that Carter played bad. All we are saying is that no one is saying Favre is going downhill because of his poor performance yesterday. No one is asking for Tom Brady's backup qb. All we our saying is that it is 1 game. Thats all. QCar played bad. Every qb is going to have there bad nights. As you see alot had there bad nights on the first day of football.

That is rediculous FFM...even for you. Favre and Brady have Superbowl wins. Let's not compare Qcraptacular to those guys huh?

edit for type-o

kg_veteran · 09-08-2003, 03:58 PM

Quote:

All we are saying is that no one is saying Favre is going downhill because of his poor performance yesterday. No one is asking for Tom Brady's backup qb. All we our saying is that it is 1 game. Thats all. QCar played bad. Every qb is going to have there bad nights. As you see alot had there bad nights on the first day of football.

This kind of logic completely baffles me.

The difference between Carter and guys like Favre, Brady, Warner (and on down the list) is that those guys have had success at SOME POINT in their respective careers. They've had good games. They've had great games.

Carter hasn't. It's not just one game for Carter. It's every single damn time he goes out there. He always has sucked, and he always will.

kg_veteran · 09-08-2003, 04:01 PM

Quote:

He said it is to early to tell on Hutch. Thats no worse than me saying Hutch has a future in this league. Actually it is worse.

Read the whole post. He said it's too early to tell, but he probably won't pan out. That means (at least to me) that while the jury may still be out in Murph's mind, it doesn't appear likely he'll ever amount to anything.

How can saying, "I'm not absolutely sure, but it doesn't appear the guy has a future" be worse than saying the guy DOES have a future?

Besides, my question at the beginning of the thread was, "Who thinks either guy has a future in this league?" I don't think Murph's statement qualifies.

Murphy3 · 09-08-2003, 04:02 PM

yes, there are starting QB's that suck around the league..however, most of the veterans that suck such as plummer have at least had some pretty good success at some point. I don't think he'll be a starter in this league for much longer than this year though.

and then there's kordell stewart. He's pretty much always sucked his entire career. Why anyone game him a contract is beyond me. Maybe there is a place for QCar in the NFL as a starter. Let's ship him to Chicago when Stewart is ran out of town.

Murphy3 · 09-08-2003, 04:05 PM

saying "it's too early to tell" and saying "i believe the guy has a future"...two completely different things. sure, you can try and spin it if you want, but it only makes you look bad if you choose to do so.

the point is, we're 99.98% sure that QCar is a spare. We're only 90% sure that Hutch is a spare. Let's make sure that Hutch is a spare this year so that the cowboys can start over with different options next year if need be

FilthyFinMavs · 09-08-2003, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: kg_veteran

Quote:

All we are saying is that no one is saying Favre is going downhill because of his poor performance yesterday. No one is asking for Tom Brady's backup qb. All we our saying is that it is 1 game. Thats all. QCar played bad. Every qb is going to have there bad nights. As you see alot had there bad nights on the first day of football.

This kind of logic completely baffles me.

The difference between Carter and guys like Favre, Brady, Warner (and on down the list) is that those guys have had success at SOME POINT in their respective careers. They've had good games. They've had great games.

Carter hasn't. It's not just one game for Carter. It's every single damn time he goes out there. He always has sucked, and he always will.

They have also had great teams to play for. A young qb is going to suck especially in a Cowboys uni. If you aren't as good as Troy Aikman or Roger Staubach you suck in this town. I understand that. We expect alot out of our qb. However, you can't expect a young qb to come right in and succeed when he has had 4 different playbooks to learn in the past 4 years.

kg_veteran · 09-08-2003, 04:10 PM

I'm so certain that both are spares that I'm willing to start this thread and risk ridicule if I turn out to be wrong.

Quote:

The question was do they have futures as starting QB's in the league, not future All Pro's. My point is that about half the guys in the league "suck". Somebody has to start.

And yet, I can't think of another team that Quincy would start for. Somebody has to start, but he wouldn't start anywhere but here.

Quote:

I was at that game yesterday and I didn't see anything to make me say he can't be a starting QB. He made some good throws and he made some bad throws. He is now in the perfect situation (at least has close as he will have). If at the end of the year he hasn't shown he can move the offense the Cowboys will move on.

That's the way it always is. He makes a few good throws, a lot of bad ones, and in the end, he sucks.

He's already shown he can't move the offense. However, I'm glad he'll get this year to abundantly demonstrate that he's worthless so that we can clean house and start over next year.

FilthyFinMavs · 09-08-2003, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Drbio

Quote:

When I and others bring up what other qb's did last year it doesn't mean that Quincy is a better qb than them nor does it mean we should excuse that Carter played bad. All we are saying is that no one is saying Favre is going downhill because of his poor performance yesterday. No one is asking for Tom Brady's backup qb. All we our saying is that it is 1 game. Thats all. QCar played bad. Every qb is going to have there bad nights. As you see alot had there bad nights on the first day of football.

That is rediculous FFM...even for you. Favre and Brady have Superbowl wins. Let's not compare Qcraptacular to those guys huh?

edit for type-o

Didn't I just state that I wasn't comparing Carter to those guys? All I said is that qbs have bad games. Alot had there bad games yesterday thats all.

kg_veteran · 09-08-2003, 04:14 PM

Quote:

They have also had great teams to play for. A young qb is going to suck especially in a Cowboys uni. If you aren't as good as Troy Aikman or Roger Staubach you suck in this town. I understand that. We expect alot out of our qb. However, you can't expect a young qb to come right in and succeed when he has had 4 different playbooks to learn in the past 4 years.

FFM, you know better than this. I'm not saying that Carter sucks in comparison to Staubach or Aikman, although that comparison definitely magnifies his suckiness. I'm saying Carter objectively sucks; that is, he sucks in comparison to your average, run of the mill, NFL starter.

I don't care if you gave the guy one playbook for the rest of his life and assembled a ton of offensive talent around him. He will still suck.

At this point, it's not even about succeeding. No one expects Carter to win games. They just ask him not to lose games. And he can't do that.

FilthyFinMavs · 09-08-2003, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: kg_veteran

Quote:

He said it is to early to tell on Hutch. Thats no worse than me saying Hutch has a future in this league. Actually it is worse.

Read the whole post. He said it's too early to tell, but he probably won't pan out. That means (at least to me) that while the jury may still be out in Murph's mind, it doesn't appear likely he'll ever amount to anything.

How can saying, "I'm not absolutely sure, but it doesn't appear the guy has a future" be worse than saying the guy DOES have a future?

Besides, my question at the beginning of the thread was, "Who thinks either guy has a future in this league?" I don't think Murph's statement qualifies.

That statement isn't worse but you completely changed the quote. He said that it is too early to tell on Hutch. But it doesn't really matter what he meant by that statement to me. He thinks Carter will be working at Mcdonald's but he didn't say what he thought of Hutch. He said that he thinks it s too early to tell on him. I just think thats a much more friendly comment than the one he gave Carter and it makes it seem like Hutch actually has a future which may be true but his future is just as bright as Carter's is to me.

kg_veteran · 09-08-2003, 04:17 PM

Quote:

That statement isn't worse but you completely changed the quote. He said that it is too early to tell on Hutch. But it doesn't really matter what he meant by that statement to me. He thinks Carter will be working at Mcdonald's but he didn't say what he thought of Hutch. He said that he thinks it s too early to tell on him. I just think thats a much more friendly comment than the one he gave Carter and it makes it seem like Hutch actually has a future which may be true but his future is just as bright as Carter's is to me.

I'll let Murph defend his own statements. I will say that I agree with you, though. Both guys have equally dismal futures.