2019 Mavs Free Agency

[JJP]

Originally Posted by saclare

I think this board is collectively overestimating what Brogdon will get and underestimating what his impact and fit would be on this team. It's creating quite a divide and was a very interesting few pages to read through.

Love the fire and passion though, it's awesome and a fun time/place to be.

There was a good article somewhere that said bidding on a restricted free agent has a lot downside. We can all remember Chandler Parsons and how it felt like Dallas had to wait and sweat.... and wait and sweat. Then when Houston didn't match and we got him, it felt like we had just acquired a top tier free agent.

It's always possible to overpay badly.... and it's not like Brogdon has a long track record to evaluate. It's entirely possible that both media and the fans have inflated his value now to the point that his acquisition looks too expensive.

[endtroducing MASKED]

My only concern about Brogdon is the bone in his foot that is already fused. If something goes wrong with his foot and we owe $90 more million to him....crying Jordan face me.

[turin]

Originally Posted by saclare

I think this board is collectively overestimating what Brogdon will get and underestimating what his impact and fit would be on this team. It's creating quite a divide and was a very interesting few pages to read through.

Love the fire and passion though, it's awesome and a fun time/place to be.

I like Brogdon, and I think he's a good fit, but I haven't really seen him play that much. Honestly, I wasn't overly impressed with him as a standout player from what I saw of him in the playoffs. Solid? Yes, but he was no Siakam from what I saw. His age and position, 3-pt shooting are definitely pluses, but to overpay for that? I'm just not sure. I'll let the MBT make that decision without any critique from me. I just don't know.

Early on I really liked Vuc, but he has really faded after a less than stellar playoff showing, but in his defense, it was against the Raptors, and they did win the championship. Lately, I was on the Kemba bandwagon, but now with Boston and the max numbers being thrown around, I'm less inclined to add him even though it's a significant talent boost. Honestly, I think if Vuc can be had for 4/90 or even up to 4/100, I think I'd take him, let Powell go, and fill in with some cheaper young guys and a stabilizing vet or two.

I'm definitely looking forward to see how things play out this offseason. It's definitely been the most interesting in years, and the Mavs are already a big winner with the KP trade imo.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Brogdon just isn't enough of a big impact player to justify the price. He's a good fit and a great shooter, but I think you can move down the list and find a comparable talent for less money.

And yeah, foot issues can kill your career or seriously derail it ala Devin Harris.

[quietsavant]

Exactly what the doctor ordered
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufyO...&frags=pl%2Cwn
This guy plus Rick is a match made in heaven. And Rick and his point guards aren't always

[Skywalker]

[Underdog]

@TheSteinLine: The Pelicans are indeed interested in Al Horford, according to one league source with knowledge of the situation, but have feared heading into free agency that they would be outbid for him

[Underdog]

@LukaInTheCut: “2 for 3” -Woj on Bucks keeping Lopez, Middleton, Brogdon. Both Woj and Lowe say that Brogdon is most likely to be the one out. “Realistic” that they let Brogdon walk on an offer $20M+/yr

[AO41]

Originally Posted by Underdog

@LukaInTheCut: “2 for 3” -Woj on Bucks keeping Lopez, Middleton, Brogdon. Both Woj and Lowe say that Brogdon is most likely to be the one out. “Realistic” that they let Brogdon walk on an offer $20M+/yr

Brogdon has been my number one choice but I also get those who are hesitant to pay him big money. For wise there aren’t many player age and skill considered that fit better. If we can’t get a big fish, I would make a side deal with two of the smaller fish and then offer Brogdon 4/85 and try to structure it that it in a ways that forces Bucks to let him go and team option year 4.

As I mentioned above, if we don’t go after Brogdon and miss the big fish, I would like us to look at G. Hill another really good fit and maybe much much cheaper.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Brogdon just isn't enough of a big impact player to justify the price. He's a good fit and a great shooter, but I think you can move down the list and find a comparable talent for less money.

And yeah, foot issues can kill your career or seriously derail it ala Devin Harris.

A healthy klay is probably the only guy in the world who defends and shoots as well as brogdon.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

A healthy klay is probably the only guy in the world who defends and shoots as well as brogdon.

Hmm - interesting read...

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by Male30Dan

Hmm - interesting read...

Iv read that, he's an elite defender.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Male30Dan

Hmm - interesting read...

Yeah, I’m gonna side with the folks in the comment section who say the author doesn’t know what the hell he’s talking about when it comes to Brogdon’s defense.

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by Male30Dan

Hmm - interesting read...

2019 - where any idiot with a keyboard can get clicks. This very young guy is not someone we should be citing.

[JJP]

I'm not sure why we should discount this piece. This guy writes about the Bucks, has seen the Bucks all year, and lives in Wisconsin. He's a Bucks fan and a sports writer. It's not like he's looking for problems. His team wants Brogdon! He has no reason to misrepresent Brogdon's skills.

And, for the record, Brogdon is a bit heavy-footed.

Defensive metrics are hard to measure. So even if Brogdon is only average on defense, it may be that the a team like the Mavs might consider Beverley a better value and a better fit for this team. Long term Beverley at 3 at 40 may be better (and smarter) than Brogdon at 4 and 80.

Just sayin.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Scratch Mirotic off the list. He signing with a euro league club.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by JJP

I'm not sure why we should discount this piece. This guy writes about the Bucks, has seen the Bucks all year, and lives in Wisconsin. He's a Bucks fan and a sports writer. It's not like he's looking for problems. His team wants Brogdon! He has no reason to misrepresent Brogdon's skills.

And, for the record, Brogdon is a bit heavy-footed.

Defensive metrics are hard to measure. So even if Brogdon is only average on defense, it may be that the a team like the Mavs might consider Beverley a better value and a better fit for this team. Long term Beverley at 3 at 40 may be better (and smarter) than Brogdon at 4 and 80.

Just sayin.

I can name a handful of Mavs “writers” who don’t know shit about basketball either. Just because you’re watching doesn’t mean you know what you’re looking at — all it takes to get a press pass is a website, and literally anyone can do that... Let’s not forget that this article is attempting to argue against Brogdon’s REPUTATION as a defender, which was earned by everyone else who watches him play.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Scratch Mirotic off the list. He signing with a euro league club.

Came here to post that... WTF??

@BR_NBA: Nikola Mirotić is negotiating deal with Barcelona's basketball club, is "optimistic" about playing for the team next season, via @sport

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by JJP

I'm not sure why we should discount this piece. This guy writes about the Bucks, has seen the Bucks all year, and lives in Wisconsin. He's a Bucks fan and a sports writer. It's not like he's looking for problems. His team wants Brogdon! He has no reason to misrepresent Brogdon's skills.

And, for the record, Brogdon is a bit heavy-footed.

Defensive metrics are hard to measure. So even if Brogdon is only average on defense, it may be that the a team like the Mavs might consider Beverley a better value and a better fit for this team. Long term Beverley at 3 at 40 may be better (and smarter) than Brogdon at 4 and 80.

Just sayin.

The way he misrepresents data is pretty clear. It’s not hard to make anyone look bad using stats. That’s why data analytics is one of the fastest growing careers. Being able to correctly connect dots to the bigger picture is key.

To Underdog’s point, just read the counter points in the comments. Also, watch his game. It would be hard to sell me that Brogdon is not a solid defender with the potential to be all defensive.

As far as your point on value comparison between Beverley and Brogdon, fair point. Brogdon is not risk free. He has health concerns and has never really turned it on like Klay despite having similar potential. Can he hit 3s at 40+% if he’s asked to double his volume (7+ a game). This is what he would need to do for us.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Came here to post that... WTF??

@BR_NBA: Nikola Mirotić is negotiating deal with Barcelona's basketball club, is "optimistic" about playing for the team next season, via @sport

He actually made some sense for the Mavs, but I guess he isn’t going to get his market value likely due to injury concerns.

[Underdog]

One less FA for us to go after, one less FA for our competition to go after, one less reason for the Bucks to let Brogdon walk... It's official:

@ShamsCharania: NBA free agent Nikola Mirotic has decided to sign with Euroleague club Barcelona, sources tell @TheAthleticNBA @Stadium. Mirotic was in the market for $45-50M total in contract in the NBA.

[JJP]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I can name a handful of Mavs “writers” who don’t know shit about basketball either. Just because you’re watching doesn’t mean you know what you’re looking at — all it takes to get a press pass is a website, and literally anyone can do that... Let’s not forget that this article is attempting to argue against Brogdon’s REPUTATION as a defender, which was earned by everyone else who watches him play.

While that's true, it doesn't necessarily mean the writer doesn't know what he's talking about. And there are a lot of people here who might be wishing this defensive "liability" to not be true. So there's all that. Fans aren't the most objective judges of skill.

Teams have their own way of measuring defensive metrics, so we will likely never know for sure.

I watched Brogdon and loved the guy. I think the fact is that a lot of fans would like Brogdon even if his defense was less than stellar. His offense may make up for it. But I'm also not willing to disregard the writer as all wrong.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by JJP

While that's true, it doesn't necessarily mean the writer doesn't know what he's talking about. And there are a lot of people here who might be wishing this defensive "liability" to not be true. So there's all that. Fans aren't the most objective judges of skill.

Teams have their own way of measuring defensive metrics, so we will likely never know for sure.

I watched Brogdon and loved the guy. I think the fact is that a lot of fans would like Brogdon even if his defense was less than stellar. His offense may make up for it. But I'm also not willing to disregard the writer as all wrong.

I don't need to base my opinion on that article when I've watched Brogdon with my own eyes... And like I said in the post you just quoted -- this author is arguing against Brogdon's REPUTATION, which was earned by dozens of different writers who are equally, if not more, qualified than this guy. Hell, every single comment below the article argues against his point, so his own fanbase doesn't see it either.

This ain't it.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Underdog

One less FA for us to go after, one less FA for our competition to go after, one less reason for the Bucks to let Brogdon walk... It's official:

@ShamsCharania: NBA free agent Nikola Mirotic has decided to sign with Euroleague club Barcelona, sources tell @TheAthleticNBA @Stadium. Mirotic was in the market for $45-50M total in contract in the NBA.

@IsaacLHarris: Price tag for Maxi Kleber might have just gone up a little

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Yes he does with the possible exception of butler. 1) he is an absolutely elite defender. He should have made the all NBA defensive team and he has a lot of position flex defensively. He can guard 1-3 and can switch on 4s credibly but can't guard them over a whole game. He's a better defender than all of them, including butler. 2) he's by far the best shooter available since klay is hurt. He's a career 41% 3pt shooter and a career 90% ft shooter. 3) he's used to playing off the ball. Outside of horford this is one of his biggest strengths. The third star in a big 3, is always going to be marginalized touches wise. Luka and kp are both so high usage it's going to be an adjustment playing with each other let alone a third ball dominant player ala kemba or butler. Brogdons ability to be productive without touching the ball every possession is a plus. 4) he can't be attacked in games at the highest level on either end. This is mostly true of jimmy too though he isn't a great shooter. But kemba? Can attack his d, vuc same thing.

Elite defender is extreme.
He holds on his own on defense. I'm not going to say he's All NBA defender territory.

I'm not arguing that Brogdon can't help this team. Just not for the price. If I'm spending that type of money I want a game changer on offense. I want a elite scorer. I also want someone who can run the offense when Doncic needs a breather. Brogdon is a solid shooter and solid defender. Probably even a better shooter and for sure a better defender than Kemba. But he's not the scorer Kemba is and never will be.

[Dtownsfinest]

So Kemba is signing with the Celtics.....end of that talk.........


But looking at the Hornets....no wonder why he didn't re-sign. They are over the salary cap and all of their money is locked into Batum, Biyombo, Gilchrist.......best players are on their team were probably Lamb and Walker and they were criminally under paying them.

[sefant77]

Wouldnt be surprised if they try to split up the 32m to get beverley and Brogdon...but maybe we are 4-5m short for this

Beverley/Brunson
Brogdon/THJ
Luka/JJ/DFS
KP
Powell/Kleber

[j0Shi]

Fish also saying Mavs won't offer max for Tobias Harris. I'm fine with that, but guess that could change depending on how free agency develops. He might be one of the more realistic targets and if we haven't singed anyone in the first 48 hours, who knows...

[Lestat_1795]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Wouldnt be surprised if they try to split up the 32m to get beverley and Brogdon...but maybe we are 4-5m short for this

Beverley/Brunson
Brogdon/THJ
Luka/JJ/DFS
KP
Powell/Kleber

Would be a nice lineup!

[JJP]

Originally Posted by Underdog

.... so his own fanbase doesn't see it either.

No, they wouldn't.

[AO41]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Elite defender is extreme.
He holds on his own on defense. I'm not going to say he's All NBA defender territory.

I'm not arguing that Brogdon can't help this team. Just not for the price. If I'm spending that type of money I want a game changer on offense. I want a elite scorer. I also want someone who can run the offense when Doncic needs a breather. Brogdon is a solid shooter and solid defender. Probably even a better shooter and for sure a better defender than Kemba. But he's not the scorer Kemba is and never will be.

You have 2 elite scorers and if you don’t want to count Luka then one elite proven scorer in KP and one very very good scorer on Luka. No other team has 3 elite scorers other than GS the last few years.

We need someone to play good D, score 15-20 points and as you said run the offense when Luka is out. Brogdon easily meets all that and don’t forget that we also have Brunson who proved last year as a rookie that he is very good at that and should only get better.

We have game changers in Luka and KP...we need a solid 3rd guy and again Brogdon can be that although maybe at a higher price then we would like but that’s how it works out sometimes.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by Lestat_1795

Would be a nice lineup!

That lineup would be probably 10th best in the West at BEST.

[AO41]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Wouldnt be surprised if they try to split up the 32m to get beverley and Brogdon...but maybe we are 4-5m short for this

Beverley/Brunson
Brogdon/THJ
Luka/JJ/DFS
KP
Powell/Kleber

Wouldn’t make much sense to get both a Brogdon and Bev. when we already have Brunson and probably JJ coming back.

I think it will more likely be Bev. and T. Harris since we can’t do Brogdon and Harris.

I think

Bev/ Brunson
Luka /THJ
Harris
KP
Powell/ Maxi

Is a lot better but I am still not in love by any means with our starting C.

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

That lineup would be probably 10th best in the West at BEST.

Narnia...

Seriously undervaluing the Doncic + KP impact.

[Underdog]

@wojespn: Nets will be willing to work with Russell and his reps on ways to get him to a team of his choice, including sign-and-trade scenarios, league sources tell ESPN. If Russell and Nets found a sign-and-trade deal that works for both, obviously, there's no need to renounce his rights.


We have the cap space and that TPE, so if he wants to come here we can get him...

[Underdog]

Fish says Mavs are interested in Tobias Harris, but not for max.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

That lineup would be probably 10th best in the West at BEST.

What are you expecting from Luka next year? I expect about 27/8/7 on 46/36/75, and a second team all NBA. And I expect the Luka kp pick and roll to be the best play in basketball

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Underdog

@wojespn: Nets will be willing to work with Russell and his reps on ways to get him to a team of his choice, including sign-and-trade scenarios, league sources tell ESPN. If Russell and Nets found a sign-and-trade deal that works for both, obviously, there's no need to renounce his rights.


We have the cap space and that TPE, so if he wants to come here we can get him...

If you thought Kemba was a bad fit...

This will be the test on whether the Mavs just want the shiny coin or are going to play it smart with fit/defensive plan B types. They going to dump it all on Harris or D-Lo?

We really don't know if they are going to snap and splurge on someone like him or not. Latest reports say Mavs are doing the plan B thing. We will see...

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

What are you expecting from Luka next year? I expect about 27/8/7 on 46/36/75, and a second team all NBA. And I expect the Luka kp pick and roll to be the best play in basketball

I would say his assists go up, rebounds tbd by who we pick up, and points about the same.

More importantly, I would expect his overall efficiency to go up.

Best guess: 22/8/7 on 45/36/75%

Combine that with a 23/6/2 from Porzingis.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

If you thought Kemba was a bad fit...

This will be the test on whether the Mavs just want the shiny coin or are going to play it smart with fit/defensive plan B types. They going to dump it all on Harris or D-Lo?

We really don't know if they are going to snap and splurge on someone like him or not. Latest reports say Mavs are doing the plan B thing. We will see...

Russell is a better fit than kemba and I have no desire for russell