GDT: game 21 (20?) - Suns (9-8) at Mavs (8-11) 8:00 pm FSSW/LP

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

I don’t understand why people are down on WCS. He always gives effort. Stats don’t always show some of the little things he does. For 4 million he can get you 20 minutes.

I've never thought Willie was the problem.

IN fact I thought the Mavs played their best defense doing that stretch where WCS started at Center with Maxi at PF

But the problem is KP has to play center now because apparently the Mavs are convinced him and Willie can't play together.

Willie allegedly causes spacing issues at center.

I'm just done with it because KP will comeback and Willie will head back to the bench getting 10 minutes at the most.

[SMC0007]

Good news is KP and Maxi will be back Monday.

Bad news is KP will be back.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Good news is KP and Maxi will be back Monday.

Bad news is KP will be back.

Have you been paying attention to Houston, San Antonio and Memphis?

The Mavs are in trouble man even with those two guys.

Houston is playing lights out basketball. Silas has them playing both ends of the floor and that trio of Wood, Wall and Oladipo is better than our nucleus right right.

Luka is no doubt the better player but all 3 of those guys right now for Houston are better than KP and THJ.

I'm not sure how Memphis is winning games but that kid Morant is the real deal he just goes all out every night and that energy rubs off on his teammates.

The Spurs have surprised me but Pop's teams are always well coached and very rarely beats themselves.

The Mavs are trouble just in their own division alone.

[Dallas41]

Has anyone paid attention to the Mavs bench?

They are terrible at getting stops and the problem is RC refuses to break up that backcourt of Brunson and Burke.

They are both too small to close out on shooters and they aren't very good at keeping anyone out of the paint.

Tonight not a single guy was a positive and it stems from their lack of defense.

Johnson -15
Powell -12
Brunson-17
Burke -1

And THJ was the lone starter at -2 tonight.

All of those guys on the plus side I noticed can each defend to certain extent and when you have them all on the floor together defending the Mavs are pretty solid.

So if they if can't get another impact starter they need to sure up that bench mob and break up that tandem of Burke and Brunson ideally for someone bigger on the wing to play next to one them and he must defend.

Josh Green would be perfect but it's a broken record expecting him to meaningful minutes now.

[Quantum]

Originally Posted by twistaeffect2004

Pretty disheartening.

Kind of don’t know where the mavs go from here.

What I do know is Luka ain’t used to losing and you can see that with each passing game. That will wear thin for him.

This is the interesting part. How come it seems like Rick all the sudden stopped experimenting as much with lineups? I get it...because all the covid guys are back, right? Seems like Rick experiments with more lineups during the game but not this one so much. Did we need a win that bad to help team morale? Luka pissed? Rick told to stop it and play the best players the most minutes you can? This game seemed like there was no experimenting/playing with room for error.

Mavs need Maxi back and need to play the core guys lots of minutes to see what you really have with this squad so that you might be able to improve things at the deadline if need be. The full squad has not played yet this season which is one reason I am not too worried about this team yet. But media seems to be putting the team on the hot seat...the team seems lost with low morale...star player calling the team play terrible. Hopefully getting Maxi back and maybe less weird lineups and more core lineups will lead to a few wins and get us back on track.

[EricaLubarsky]

I'm going to hope that

1) KP will figure his @#$% out and learn to play. Dude missed like 1.5 years. Then played 12 games (9 regular season and 3 playoffs) before missing another 5 months. Really hope he even becomes just a defensive dude who can hit threes. He basically played 12 games in 2 years. That's tough for a guy who was already more a prospect than a star. Hell, it would be tough for a star.

2) Really hope DFS/Richardson/Kleber can get back and they're just knocking off rust after getting their asses kicked by Covid. Brunson was faster to return and came back good, but he didn't have Covid. Richardson, DFS, and Kleber may just need a few games.

Otherwise, maybe there is some miracle trade. I know the going rate for a star is like 2--6 first-round picks, but maybe we can get Beal for some of Cuban's Gamestop stocks. Who knows? We don't have first-round picks or assets, but maybe we can figure something out.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

I've never thought Willie was the problem.

IN fact I thought the Mavs played their best defense doing that stretch where WCS started at Center with Maxi at PF

But the problem is KP has to play center now because apparently the Mavs are convinced him and Willie can't play together.

Willie allegedly causes spacing issues at center.

I'm just done with it because KP will comeback and Willie will head back to the bench getting 10 minutes at the most.

I agree as well. And there’s been less people criticizing WCS as his role has gotten more consistent.

But I was referencing your Mavs moneyball article with Josh Bowe complaining on him and he’s done in Dallas because eye test and he watches basketball. Like come on.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Rick's decision to put Dorian on Paul down the stretch was disastrous.

Thj is still who we thought he was.

I thought this was strange too. Isn’t this the exact reason we got Richardson?

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

They shoot 31 FTs and make 27 for 87%
We shoot 14 and make 8 for 57%

Pretty telling.

It is telling. And it’s broken record time; we need players other than Luka that can get to the rim and draw fouls. Our other two best penetrators are midgets. I was expecting a little more from Richardson but he never seems to get to the line.

[Simon2]

Originally Posted by mac222b

I thought this was strange too. Isn’t this the exact reason we got Richardson?

Yes. This is why I think RC is just overrated. I thought I heard since 2011, the Mavs haven’t won a playoff series. What?

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by mac222b

It is telling. And it’s broken record time; we need players other than Luka that can get to the rim and draw fouls. Our other two best penetrators are midgets. I was expecting a little more from Richardson but he never seems to get to the line.

It seems we get beat in FT%, FTA and rebounding (especially offensive) on a nightly basis.
Considering we have one of the best rebounding PGs in the league that can get to just about any place on the court he desires in any situation, I'd say that is pretty head scratching and concerning.

[purplefrog]

Some Mavs Team Stats:

28th in Rebounding
28th in Assists
23rd in FT%
23rd in Blocked Shots

There is a lot wrong with this team......

[Simon2]

Originally Posted by purplefrog

Some Mavs Team Stats:

28th in Rebounding
28th in Assists
23rd in FT%
23rd in Blocked Shots

There is a lot wrong with this team......

I don’t think trading players will help. ‘A hundred lions lead by a sheep’

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by mac222b

I thought this was strange too. Isn’t this the exact reason we got Richardson?

It is the exact reason. Like I mentioned before, It's a huge wtf when you go trade your best shooter for a guy to defend quick guards and then put the same guy we have had, dfs, who can't guard them on him. Down the stretch, not like randomly and from switching during the game. Intentionally being told to guard him. So CP gets like 16 pts, 5 ast in the 4th quarter.

And we have people complaining that we don't have shooters. Well we traded our best shooter for a guy to defend quick guards and we don't even use him for that purpose. I'm fine with that trade, Curry was not as valuable to us because we couldn't defend on the perimeter so every bucket he made he gave up more. This team is so backasswards right now, I can't understand how they approach some basic common sense things the way they do...Coaches and players.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Simon2

I don’t think trading players will help. ‘A hundred lions lead by a sheep’

I saw this quote yesterday too...but we don't have a hundred lions. That's laughable. We have 1 lion , and I'm not sure anymore what he is led by.

[Simon2]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I saw this quote yesterday too...but we don't have a hundred lions. That's laughable. We have 1 lion , and I'm not sure anymore what he is led by.

I don’t think Luka is a lion yet. To me, he’s still a whiny cub. If he keeps throwing temper tantrums, no one will follow him. He needs to set an example even in temperament. It’s just whining after every non-call. Get used to it. That’s how it is in the NBA. Anyway, the point is coaching does play a role in all of this.

[purplefrog]

It seems like free-throw shooting is below average every season for the Mavs. Why is that?

[turin]

Originally Posted by Simon2

I don’t think Luka is a lion yet. To me, he’s still a whiny cub. If he keeps throwing temper tantrums, no one will follow him. He needs to set an example even in temperament. It’s just whining after every non-call. Get used to it. That’s how it is in the NBA. Anyway, the point is coaching does play a role in all of this.

Luka is a budding superstar who is financially independent. He's going to do what's best for himself and his career, and since he doesn't NEED the money, priority 1 would be an enjoyable working environment imo, and if he's not enjoying where he's playing while making progress towards his longer-term career goals, then I'd expect him to move on. Whine? If my work environment were devolving into the crap sandwhich that is the Mavericks right now, I'd sure as hell voice my dipleasure, and if things didn't change, then I'd make a change. Life is too short, and a basketball career is even shorter. I don't anticipate Luka sticking around in a Dirk-like manner and just sucking it up and watching the years go by and not have a chance to compete for a championship every year.

[Dallas41]

Do the Mavs start to make a run with Kleber back on Monday?

KP, Kleber, DFS, JRich and Luka starting

Maxi Kleber expected to return on Monday as Dallas Mavericks host Suns
Carlisle was asked about the team’s shooting struggles during his postgame press conference on Saturday when he left fans know about Kleber. See his response below.

“Our shooting is going to improve. Our number one 3-point shooter went out three weeks ago with COVID, and he’s coming back on Monday. Look, it is going to take Maxi a while to get his game legs back, but we’ve just got to stay together and fight through this difficult stretch.”

[VA-Mavs-Fan]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

So CP gets like 16 pts, 5 ast in the 4th quarter.

Green has shown a lot of ability to be a very very good defender, and pretty good rebounder, and his offense was growing. Why can't RC put Green on CP for at least 20 minutes last night? Green would have slowed him down - a lot. Same with Lavine a number of games ago. Clearly, the current set of guys aren't getting it done on defense. Why won't RC try to get his best 1-3 defender on the court? Brunson and Burke +/- just horrible, they get destroyed on Defense pretty frequently. They should not be playing together. Green should be playing with 1 of them at all times in second unit.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by VA-Mavs-Fan

Green has shown a lot of ability to be a very very good defender, and pretty good rebounder, and his offense was growing. Why can't RC put Green on CP for at least 20 minutes last night? Green would have slowed him down - a lot. Same with Lavine a number of games ago. Clearly, the current set of guys aren't getting it done on defense. Why won't RC try to get his best 1-3 defender on the court? Brunson and Burke +/- just horrible, they get destroyed on Defense pretty frequently. They should not be playing together. Green should be playing with 1 of them at all times in second unit.

I think the best 1-3 defender is JRich. But Green is probably next. God only knows why Rick does what he does. I'm sure he sees something in practice but also he over values tenure imo. The problem with going by tenure and having too much loyalty is you never maximize young potential. Whixh is what even the biggest Rick apologizers tend to agree with.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by VA-Mavs-Fan

Green has shown a lot of ability to be a very very good defender, and pretty good rebounder, and his offense was growing. Why can't RC put Green on CP for at least 20 minutes last night? Green would have slowed him down - a lot. Same with Lavine a number of games ago. Clearly, the current set of guys aren't getting it done on defense. Why won't RC try to get his best 1-3 defender on the court? Brunson and Burke +/- just horrible, they get destroyed on Defense pretty frequently. They should not be playing together. Green should be playing with 1 of them at all times in second unit.

100% agree with the Burke/Brunson pairing and I've been calling for J.Green to get more minutes next to one of them all year.

A perfect lineup off that bench would have Brunson and Burke rotating based on which player is more efficient and consistent that game or week.

Brunson/Burke
THJ
Green
Johnson
WCS

But RC is going to roll out those two with THJ on a nightly basis knowing damn well those 3 guys together are going to each hunt for shots and then play terrible defense.

You can't play those 3 guys all together and expect to get stops defensively that's why Green helps to balance that 2nd unit and gives you another rebounder to help out off the bench.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by Simon2

I don’t think Luka is a lion yet. To me, he’s still a whiny cub. If he keeps throwing temper tantrums, no one will follow him. He needs to set an example even in temperament. It’s just whining after every non-call. Get used to it. That’s how it is in the NBA. Anyway, the point is coaching does play a role in all of this.

Also if you’re a leader of a team you don’t set an example by coming into preseason out of shape. That sends a bad message to the rest of the team that the star can come in like that. He’s got a long ways to go.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by turin

Luka is a budding superstar who is financially independent. He's going to do what's best for himself and his career, and since he doesn't NEED the money, priority 1 would be an enjoyable working environment imo, and if he's not enjoying where he's playing while making progress towards his longer-term career goals, then I'd expect him to move on. Whine? If my work environment were devolving into the crap sandwhich that is the Mavericks right now, I'd sure as hell voice my dipleasure, and if things didn't change, then I'd make a change. Life is too short, and a basketball career is even shorter. I don't anticipate Luka sticking around in a Dirk-like manner and just sucking it up and watching the years go by and not have a chance to compete for a championship every year.

Luka can take some of the blame for this he’s far from perfect.

[Quantum]

This Green/Minutes convo is pretty interesting. Yesterday I read a thread on RealGM about people complaining about LeMelo not starting/getting more minutes. Most people agreed that the kid needs more minutes and it doesnt make sense to stunt his growth by playing him lesser minutes than he can. Reps turn into learning the game quicker. I agree it makes sense.

But someone came in with the other side of the coin. They pointed to Josh Smith in Atlanta. The claimed(I am taking this to be truth...i have not done the research) that Smith came into the league with a not-so-good organization and they let him do whatever(he was hometown kid blah blah). He developed a bunch of bad habits that turned him into less than what he could have been. The argument is that if you dont have someone benching you for mistakes and riding your butt early in your career you could very well not reach your potential and be unplayable. I always remember hearing the Brain Surgeon analogy growing up...good surgeons(heart, brain, transplant) ride their students like a bad dream because you cant mess up. You mess up and its the patients life. If the surgeon belittles and upsets his student they will probably remember to dothe task right the next time.

I agree with both sides. I personally think playing time helps more in basketball. Its not a life threatening situation. These guys do get paid enough to get shamed by the coach though.

The question is...is Green making stupid mistakes? If so...do they warrant getting little to no playing time? If so...how much is no playing time stunting his growth?

[turin]

Originally Posted by Quantum

This Green/Minutes convo is pretty interesting. Yesterday I read a thread on RealGM about people complaining about LeMelo not starting/getting more minutes. Most people agreed that the kid needs more minutes and it doesnt make sense to stunt his growth by playing him lesser minutes than he can. Reps turn into learning the game quicker. I agree it makes sense.

But someone came in with the other side of the coin. They pointed to Josh Smith in Atlanta. The claimed(I am taking this to be truth...i have not done the research) that Smith came into the league with a not-so-good organization and they let him do whatever(he was hometown kid blah blah). He developed a bunch of bad habits that turned him into less than what he could have been. The argument is that if you dont have someone benching you for mistakes and riding your butt early in your career you could very well not reach your potential and be unplayable. I always remember hearing the Brain Surgeon analogy growing up...good surgeons(heart, brain, transplant) ride their students like a bad dream because you cant mess up. You mess up and its the patients life. If the surgeon belittles and upsets his student they will probably remember to dothe task right the next time.

I agree with both sides. I personally think playing time helps more in basketball. Its not a life threatening situation. These guys do get paid enough to get shamed by the coach though.

The question is...is Green making stupid mistakes? If so...do they warrant getting little to no playing time? If so...how much is no playing time stunting his growth?

What's wrong with pointing out and correcting mistakes in game instead of 1 mistake and you're out? This shouldn't be a perfection or sit scenario imo. Same mistake 2-3 times? Yeah, pull the guy and have him sit next to a player who can explain things to him as the possessions unfold, so he can learn what to fix. Granted, this is useless with THJ, but could help Green.

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[EricaLubarsky]

Kleber starting! Kleber starting!

Doncic/Rich/DFS/Kleber/KP