Roster for this year

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Howard isnt happening and McMahon explained it now pretty clear why:

MacMahon:

It's Parsons' plan A. He has some say but he's not 1/2 on the decision making chart. As much as he wants to make it happen, I highly, highly doubt he ends up in Dallas.

1. Talking to folks, Mavs won't offer the max. They will not sniff his max. If he ends up in Dallas, it would mean the market for him is awfully disappointing. Maybe $20M per year.

2. This should be the lead reason. This is not from the horse's mouth himself but it would be an awfully tough pill to swallow for Dirk to play with Howard. Hate is a strong word but yeah. It would be an awfully tough pill to swallow. A motivated Dwight would be perfect next to Dirk.

Decision makers:
Cuban is clearly #1, no contest. Donnie is a consultant. He consults with Carlisle. Cuban is the GM of the Mavs. He's the most hands on owner in sports when it comes to personnel decisions. He makes every single one.

2. Dirk. Dirk wanted Rondo; Rondo deal got done. He also wanted Kidd.
3. Donnie/Carlisle
4. Parsons - DeAndre was a Parsons plan.

Dirk has veto power. If he tells Cuban no, Cuban is ok. When he speaks, it matters. He spoke on Rondo. I don't know how loudly he'll speak on Dwight. He no commented on Dwight yesterday. That speaks volume. If you think about it, it makes sense. You see the way Dwight's production has plummeted and all the drama with Dwight going back to Orlando. LA, who does Dirk know? Steve Nash. Who's been in Houston? Jason Terry. Two of his favorite teammates ever have told him enough Howard horror stories to fill a few novels. Dwight stands for everything that is the opposite of Dirk. Dirk is the epitome of maximizing all his gifts. He's a professional. Workaholic. He's dragging a leg up and down the court at the age of 37. He's give it all all the time. Dwight is one of the biggest wastes of natural resources in NBA history. Parsons is right, he can still be great. You see flashes. How often do you get it though? That would make it hard for Dirk to say bring him in.

Do not assume it's plan A. It may be Parsons plan A but it's not Cuban/Dirk's plan A.

If Chandler returns to Dallas(very good chance, not coming at discount, wants max)...as long as Dirk is wearing a uniform, as often as he wants a say, his voice matters more than anyone else's and it's not close. He's earned that right.

Parsons will try to sell Cuban: Look how good/motivated he was when I was there. He'll be motivated with me.

That might be all great for Dirk but what then is plan A?

I get the whole Dirk respect thing but this team simply needs to move forward. If Cuban and Dirk think that a Parsons and Dirk SF/PF combo is going to cut it without any kind of athletic defensive beast at center then they can expect another average-to-below average season with an early exit in the POs...if they even make it.

If Dwight is out of the question then Whiteside should probably be plan A.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

That might be all great for Dirk but what then is plan A?

I get the whole Dirk respect thing but this team simply needs to move forward.

I don't know what to tell you... Maybe root for a different team until Dirk retires? Mark Cuban owes him whatever he wants at this point -- and Dirk wants to win.

[Melonhead]

Thats relieving news to hear Dirk wants no part of Howard.
Resign Parsons, then I say go hard at Whiteside or Horford. I think Horford would fit beautifully with this team.

[MavzMan]

I fully understand all of your arguments and they are valid. But at the same time, I'm confused the Whiteside is everyone's next choice when he got sent to the D-League by multiple teams and has had red flags raised on him by Miami the whole season. And noone has actually given a reason that Whiteside would even choose on his own to come here. To me, that's the biggest pipe dream of all.

I'm also not clear on what exactly Howard did to Dirk? Is it just because he chose to go to Houston instead of Dallas and play with the new/shiny James Harden?

I don't think he's a perfect choice, I just think he's the best choice for a lot more reasons than he's not.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Maybe root for a different team until Dirk retires? Mark Cuban owes him whatever he wants at this point -- and Dirk wants to win.

I'll certainly have to from the 2nd round of POs and on until he does.

Again, get the whole respect thing but we simply have to move on or continue to bitch every season when the same strategy yields the same results. If Dirk could get along with Tim Thomas after the big kiss then he can get along with anyone.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

Again, get the whole respect thing but we simply have to move on or continue to bitch every season when the same strategy yields the same results.

When you bring a championship back to Dallas, then you can have a say in the team's future... The fanbase didn't win a ring, Dirk did.

Bitch all you want, I'm going to continue to enjoy watching Dirk until he rides off into the sunset (but I'm living for the moment, not the destination).

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

I'll certainly have to from the 2nd round of POs and on until he does.

Again, get the whole respect thing but we simply have to move on or continue to bitch every season when the same strategy yields the same results. If Dirk could get along with Tim Thomas after the big kiss then he can get along with anyone.

The people who buy tickets to Mavs games come to watch Dirk.

Anyway, I don't buy for a second that Dirk wouldn't want to play with Howard.

[sefant77]

I guess he had plenty of talks with Nash with Nash telling him how Dwight REFUSED to play PnR because he wanted to have his isos instead.

Terry told him probably plenty of nice stories about the Rockets lockerroom and Dwights role there.

No, Dirk does not want Dwight here for sure. They could have had him at the trade deadline and refused it.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Underdog

When you bring a championship back to Dallas, then you can have a say in the team's future... ).

Hmmm....so now I have no right to voice my opinion on how we should proceed into the future?
Always kinda thought that was the purpose of this board.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Anyway, I don't buy for a second that Dirk wouldn't want to play with Howard.

Agree...Howard's and Dirk's games should complement each other well and Dirk can get along with anyone.
A center like Zaza playing with Dirk and Parsons simply can't happen again.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

Hmmm....so now I have no right to voice my opinion on how we should proceed into the future?
Always kinda thought that was the purpose of this board.

You can have whatever opinion you want, but your opinion doesn't match up with the reality that Dirk is clearly stating -- the Mavs are not rebuilding until he retires... You can cry about that fact for the rest of Dirk's career if that's how you want to spend your time/energy, but it is what it is.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Underdog

You can have whatever opinion you want, but your opinion doesn't match up with the reality that Dirk is clearly stating -- the Mavs are not rebuilding until he retires... You can cry about that fact for the rest of Dirk's career if that's how you want to spend your time/energy, but it is what it is.

I have no problem with Dirk wanting to be on a winning team but I do have a problem if he isn't willing to play with players that can help the team. I personally don't think he is the type who would turn his nose up at someone like Howard but who knows.

I'm sorry but I was a Mavs fan when Dirk was in diapers and who knows where he'll be 2 years from now but I'll still be a Mavs fan before a Dirk fan. I love Dirk and always will respect what he has done for the organization but if he can't see the predicament this organization is in and doesn't give that some consideration when it comes to acquiring players as well as the long-term welfare of this team then as a supporting fan I can respectfully disagree with him.
If you want to call that "crying" then so be it....I consider it to be a passionate Mavs fan expressing an opinion.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

I have no problem with Dirk wanting to be on a winning team but I do have a problem if he isn't willing to play with players that can help the team. I personally don't think he is the type who would turn his nose up at someone like Howard but who knows.

Maybe because he thinks Howard won't help at this point? Nash & Terry are both high-IQ guys who have Dirk's trust, and they know as well as anyone what it's like to play with the guy... You have to admit that the pros don't obviously outweigh the cons here, especially personality-wise. Maybe Dirk has enough information (more than us) to conclude that he isn't worth the risk? I don't know about you, but I have no reason to doubt Dirk's judgement after all these years.

Plus, Howard already passed on Dallas once, and it's not like he's gotten any better since then -- just more expensive.

[rmacomic]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Howard isnt happening and McMahon explained it now pretty clear why:

MacMahon:

It's Parsons' plan A. He has some say but he's not 1/2 on the decision making chart. As much as he wants to make it happen, I highly, highly doubt he ends up in Dallas.

1. Talking to folks, Mavs won't offer the max. They will not sniff his max. If he ends up in Dallas, it would mean the market for him is awfully disappointing. Maybe $20M per year.

2. This should be the lead reason. This is not from the horse's mouth himself but it would be an awfully tough pill to swallow for Dirk to play with Howard. Hate is a strong word but yeah. It would be an awfully tough pill to swallow. A motivated Dwight would be perfect next to Dirk.

Decision makers:
Cuban is clearly #1, no contest. Donnie is a consultant. He consults with Carlisle. Cuban is the GM of the Mavs. He's the most hands on owner in sports when it comes to personnel decisions. He makes every single one.

2. Dirk. Dirk wanted Rondo; Rondo deal got done. He also wanted Kidd.
3. Donnie/Carlisle
4. Parsons - DeAndre was a Parsons plan.

Dirk has veto power. If he tells Cuban no, Cuban is ok. When he speaks, it matters. He spoke on Rondo. I don't know how loudly he'll speak on Dwight. He no commented on Dwight yesterday. That speaks volume. If you think about it, it makes sense. You see the way Dwight's production has plummeted and all the drama with Dwight going back to Orlando. LA, who does Dirk know? Steve Nash. Who's been in Houston? Jason Terry. Two of his favorite teammates ever have told him enough Howard horror stories to fill a few novels. Dwight stands for everything that is the opposite of Dirk. Dirk is the epitome of maximizing all his gifts. He's a professional. Workaholic. He's dragging a leg up and down the court at the age of 37. He's give it all all the time. Dwight is one of the biggest wastes of natural resources in NBA history. Parsons is right, he can still be great. You see flashes. How often do you get it though? That would make it hard for Dirk to say bring him in.

Do not assume it's plan A. It may be Parsons plan A but it's not Cuban/Dirk's plan A.

If Chandler returns to Dallas(very good chance, not coming at discount, wants max)...as long as Dirk is wearing a uniform, as often as he wants a say, his voice matters more than anyone else's and it's not close. He's earned that right.

Parsons will try to sell Cuban: Look how good/motivated he was when I was there. He'll be motivated with me.

Is this pure speculation or do you have some information no one else has?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by rmacomic

Is this pure speculation or do you have some information no one else has?

I had the same question, the only result on Google came from Clutchfans -- apparently this was on the radio... Not sure if it's transcribed, summarized or completely fabricated.

The only things I've read from Tmac's Twitter are that the Mavs won't offer Dwight max money, and that Dirk had no comment when asked about him.

[MFFL]

Originally Posted by MavzMan

The only way Rondo comes back to this team is if Odom demands it before he signs with us.

Article is the biggest pile of bull$hit I've read all year.

It was an April Fools Joke. It even said in the last line how painful it was to type the article. Fun though

[yahyes]

Deron/JJ/Norris Cole
Wes/Eric Gordon/Felton
Anderson/Parsons
Dirk/Ryan Anderson/Lee
Horford/Mejri/Powell


This lineup can work. Assuming with trades happening that involve some players under contract. Maybe a sign and trade too. But I think this would be an interesting roster that Cuban could actually start with, since the cap is going up. And not to mention some players taking less to get Horford, Eric Gordon, and some other guy. Defensive player. So far it's a start..

[Melonhead]

That came from the radio...not sure how accurate the words are but its probably pretty close.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Maybe because he thinks Howard won't help at this point? Nash & Terry are both high-IQ guys who have Dirk's trust, and they know as well as anyone what it's like to play with the guy... You have to admit that the pros don't obviously outweigh the cons here, especially personality-wise. Maybe Dirk has enough information (more than us) to conclude that he isn't worth the risk? I don't know about you, but I have no reason to doubt Dirk's judgement after all these years.

Plus, Howard already passed on Dallas once, and it's not like he's gotten any better since then -- just more expensive.

I do respect Dirk's opinion but I guess the whole problem I have with TMac's comments is that it is Parsons' Plan A and Dirk wants no part of Howard.
The issue I have with that is that Dirk hasn't been able to bring in anyone of superstar status or even all-star status for years if at all. If Parsons is able to lure in a star then I think it should at least be considered instead of simply being dismissed just because Dirk doesn't want to play with him or has heard some bad things about him.

I think Howard and Dirk are made for each other and could really click. I'm all for someone else but don't see much better players out there (if any) and probably none that are realistic. My fear is that we either resign Zaza or bring in someone like Hibbert.

The other reason I like Howard is because he brings us so much of what we need (defense, athleticism, size, etc....) in one package. I don't care of he averages 2 pts a game because we simply need his presence in the paint. Also, we have a similar offense as what SVG ran in Orlando which is where/when Howard had his best years.

Again, I'm open to an alternative but not hearing a lot of possibilities other than Whiteside. My guess is that Tyson will somehow end up on this team again before it is all over.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by yahyes

Deron/JJ/Norris Cole
Wes/Eric Gordon/Felton
Anderson/Parsons
Dirk/Ryan Anderson/Lee
Horford/Mejri/Powell


This lineup can work. Assuming with trades happening that involve some players under contract. Maybe a sign and trade too. But I think this would be an interesting roster that Cuban could actually start with, since the cap is going up. And not to mention some players taking less to get Horford, Eric Gordon, and some other guy. Defensive player. So far it's a start..

I love that roster but not even close to realistic.
Ryan Anderson, Gordon, Parsons and Horford will probably take over $70 mil of cap space.
Add Dirk, Matthews, DWill, Lee, Powell, JJ and Felton you are way north of $100mil.

[EricaLubarsky]

Hortford is worse at rebounding than Zaza. With the rest of the roster being what it is, we need major rebounding from the 3 and 5

[MavzMan]

Originally Posted by MFFL

It was an April Fools Joke. It even said in the last line how painful it was to type the article. Fun though

Yeah. It got me. I'm an idiot. Nothing to see here, move along people. These are not the droids you are looking for.

[MavzMan]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Hortford is worse at rebounding than Zaza. With the rest of the roster being what it is, we need major rebounding from the 3 and 5

Yeah, for some reason I can't really say, I'm just not impressed with Horford.

[EricaLubarsky]

Is Howard trying out for a roster spot?

[sefant77]

Dwight is tanking the game....i dont want this guy anywhere near our team.

[Just211]

I don't like Howard, but he is definitely the best option.
And remember, he is not a leader, but a follower. He struggled in Orlando because he was the leader, immature and didn't know how to handle it. He struggled in LA because he was paired with Kobe, who, while an alltime great, is also an all time asshole. Totally rubbed Howard wrong with a harsh, "do it my way, I'm the man, you are child, I'm above you" attitude. And then in Houston, he is with harden, possibly the worse leader for Howard "the follower" to be paired with.
I think in the Mavs culture, he could thrive. You see how this ragtag group rallied with toughness, although lacking in talent. I think with his buddy parsons holding his hand, and dirk and Carlisle leading, Howard could finally fulfill his talent. Or at least I would hope...

[spreedom]

Dwight struggled in Orlando? News to me.

[Melonhead]

It's fools gold to think Howard will be any different than the player he's been the last decade. You're kidding yourself. With that said if Dirk wants him I'll take him because unfortunately he's the best of the lot. But honestly he has a snowball chance in hell of wearing a blue uniform with the mavericks on it.

[TheSportyChannel]

Clippers are looking like they will rebuild after this season. My plan for the mavs is to trade for Cp3 and this how.............

Trade Devin Harris + Wesley + 1st round draft pick for Cp3

The salaries work perfectly according to espn trade machine

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=zbxsnrz

Then we sign Dwight Howard and Chandler Parsons

Our starting 5 for the 2016-17 season would be

Chris Paul
Justin Anderson
Chandler Parsons
Dirk Nowitzki
Dwight Howard

[MavzMan]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Dwight is tanking the game....i dont want this guy anywhere near our team.

First I admit that I didn't watch the game, but he had 21 rebounds and tanked the game? Yes, he did have 8 pts on 3-13, but for some reason most everyone on this board wants to lay total blame of the Rockets on Howard. How about you listen to an actual NBA ex-player and commentator?

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/tn...nba/index.html

Beasley was the only other guy in double digit scoring. This is a team loss that followed it's leader, plain and simple.

[Just211]

Originally Posted by spreedom

Dwight struggled in Orlando? News to me.

I meant as far as how it ended, and the disaster he left. If he was a leader, he could've easily recruited a top flight guard and made that team His, and a contender for a decade.

[Sportstudi]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Priority 1 is re-signing Parsons.
Priority 2 is Howard, Horford, Whiteside in that order. If Parsons is already recruiting Howard might as well roll with it.
Priority 3 Deron Williams or some other PG with the money that's left.
Priority 4 Draft well.

The 2 3 and 4 positions are collectively accounted for since Parsons and Wes are interchangeable.

If the Mavs get a legit 30 minute center I would be ecstatic. Let's hope that is the FO focus.

Well, this year's draft isn't that deep. I wonder what's left at #46. #16 we owe to Boston from that Rondo trade.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by TheSportyChannel

Clippers are looking like they will rebuild after this season. My plan for the mavs is to trade for Cp3 and this how.............

Trade Devin Harris + Wesley + 1st round draft pick for Cp3

The salaries work perfectly according to espn trade machine

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=zbxsnrz

Then we sign Dwight Howard and Chandler Parsons

Our starting 5 for the 2016-17 season would be

Chris Paul
Justin Anderson
Chandler Parsons
Dirk Nowitzki
Dwight Howard

Complete pipe dream. CP3 will be with LeBron next season

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Complete pipe dream. CP3 will be with LeBron next season

He may not be here but he's not playing with LBJ

[Sportstudi]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Dwight is tanking the game....i dont want this guy anywhere near our team.

Agrred. His athleticism is fading heavily, although he strongly relies on it. He isn't anywhere close to the player he once was. Not saying he's crap, but for sure he isn't worth the max by any means. And he wants the max. In addition to that I think he's pretty weak mentally. So, I'd say no to Dwight.

[Sportstudi]

Originally Posted by TheSportyChannel

Clippers are looking like they will rebuild after this season. My plan for the mavs is to trade for Cp3 and this how.............

Trade Devin Harris + Wesley + 1st round draft pick for Cp3

The salaries work perfectly according to espn trade machine

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=zbxsnrz

Then we sign Dwight Howard and Chandler Parsons

Our starting 5 for the 2016-17 season would be

Chris Paul
Justin Anderson
Chandler Parsons
Dirk Nowitzki
Dwight Howard

I'd like to know what you're smoking.... hell freezes over before LAC accepts this offer.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by Just211

I meant as far as how it ended, and the disaster he left. If he was a leader, he could've easily recruited a top flight guard and made that team His, and a contender for a decade.

That team was capped out from the moment they added Rashard Lewis, and let's not forget that he had All Star Jameer Nelson in his prime and either Redick or Courtney Lee (or very-recently-past-his-prime Vince) for his entire tenure there.

I agree that he didn't handle his last two seasons well there at all, but to say he wasn't a leader in part because he couldn't recruit another star with nonexistent cap space is pretty unfair. Personally, I thought for his prime years in Orlando Dwight was at least a top-five player.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by Just211

I don't like Howard, but he is definitely the best option.
And remember, he is not a leader, but a follower. He struggled in Orlando because he was the leader, immature and didn't know how to handle it. He struggled in LA because he was paired with Kobe, who, while an alltime great, is also an all time asshole. Totally rubbed Howard wrong with a harsh, "do it my way, I'm the man, you are child, I'm above you" attitude. And then in Houston, he is with harden, possibly the worse leader for Howard "the follower" to be paired with.
I think in the Mavs culture, he could thrive. You see how this ragtag group rallied with toughness, although lacking in talent. I think with his buddy parsons holding his hand, and dirk and Carlisle leading, Howard could finally fulfill his talent. Or at least I would hope...

He had freaking Steve Nash in LA and REFUSED to play PnR because he thought he is better than that and wanted to have his superstar isos instead.

He is going to clash so hard with Rick and Dirk. Dwight is spoiled childish idiot, he isnt a winner because he doesnt care enough.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

It's fools gold to think Howard will be any different than the player he's been the last decade. You're kidding yourself.

It's Chinatown... I've been saying the same thing about McGee all year -- and his best season is probably about on par with Dwight's worst season.

[Bryan_Wilson]

I'm worried about Howard also but do think he is best fit for us. His numbers aren't as bad as you would think for a guy who is getting drilled like he is by national media. His usage rate though has fallen every year in Houston, while Harden's has increased. Ariza's usage also has fallen and Barkley had mentioned him not being in rhythm in Houston causing his shooting to falter. The same is probably happening to Howard. Fact is tho according to the advanced stats he's rly not too far off what he was in Orlando, he's just completely not used. His usage rate this season was the lowest of his career with the exception of his rookie season. Among qualifying Center's he ranked 32nd in usage rate. He's tied at 193rd in the NBA in usage.

Orlando Avg- Usage(23.5) Blk%(4.4) TRB%(21.0)
This last season- Usage(18.4) Blk%(4.1)TRB%(20.2)

I'm not gonna say he's perfect because ideally he'd get in the face of his team and tell them to play defense or get off the floor. He's too nice, and that's been his problem for a long time. So he may not have the same emotional effect as TC did for us. We do have Wes and Simba now tho who appear to take care of the emotion for us. But I do think that Dwight just needs to be used more. His rebounding numbers and blocked shots have fallen off only slightly according to advanced numbers and he has been unhappy all year. It would be a gamble to rely on him improving with a change of scenery but it's at least encouraging.

But Harden basically was playing zero defense and had a top 3 usage rate in the NBA. And it's probably hard for Dwight, who was sold on the idea of being a pair of stars with Harden... to run the floor, anchor a defense, switch on defense to help harden because he doesn't give a shit on that end and likely his own man will score because the other guys don't rotate either cuz of harden's example... But yeah go anchor our defense and give 100% effort on the boards knowing Harden isn't going to pass u the ball unless it's an easy no brainer assist to pad his own stats. Even with all that... his advanced numbers rly are not far off his orlando average.