Magic - Suns trade

[Skywalker]

http://twitter.com/chris_broussard

Full deal: Phx sends Hedo/J Rich/Earl Clark to Orlando for Vince/Gortat/Pietrus, 2011 first round pick and cash considerations, sources say

also:

Washington deal with Orlando is close and will be Rashard Lewis for Gilbert Arenas straight up, sources say....no big going from Wiz to Orl

[BPo001]

I didn't know Pietrus and a 1st round pick were being discussed. Sure sounds like PHX is getting the better end of this deal.

[Underdog]

Hedo back to Orlando?

Maybe he can re-energize his career...

[BGMaverick9]

If they trade Lewis for Arenas, their team is going to be dramatically different in terms of personnel but it still has a similar vibe I think.

They need to make deals though. They're risky ideas but the team has become very stagnant.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

So do you bring Nelson or Arenas off the bench?

[Rick41]

The Magic have blown up twitter.

These trades are out of no where.

[MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs]

Both deals are done.

Alex Kennedy: Source confirms that both deals are completed. Arenas for Lewis and Carter, Gortat, Pietrus for Turkoglu, Richardson, Clark. There you go. Twitter
Rumors tagsOrlando Magic, Washington Wizards, Rashard Lewis, TradeTrade

We play Orlando in Orlando next Tuesday, hopefully they will be going through an adjustment period with their roster changes.

I'm not really sure who comes out ahead on the Suns trade, With Pietrus + first round pick probably the Suns. Especially if Gortat lives up to his potential, then they completely robbed the Magic blind. But if you look at JRich vs VC, The Magic win there by alot.

As far as the Wizards trade I think Orlando wins there. Lewis has the worst contract in the league and I don't understand the point in The Wizards taking him on for any reason, why get out of one bad contract for another? Lewis has become almost useless.

[Underdog]

Wow, Orlando just set the pace between now and the trade deadline...

[Skywalker]

How ironic is this for the Magic

[LonghornDub]

What's Arenas's contract situation? At each player's best, Arenas is better than Lewis, but you rarely get his best.

BTW another example of a big trade coming with almost no advance notice.

[Dtownsfinest]

Wow. Orlando has a squad right now. If they can get Hedo and JR back to their games before they were traded to the Suns and get Agent Zero back? Orlando is going to be a PROBLEM.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

What's Arenas's contract situation? At each player's best, Arenas is better than Lewis, but you rarely get his best.

BTW another example of a big trade coming with almost no advance notice.

Arenas has been taken completely out of his game while trying not to stop the development of John Wall. There's nothing holding him back now. He needed a change of scenery more than any player in this league right now.

[grndmstr_c]

Maybe I'll feel differently once I've thought about it a bit more, but I have to say that I don't love these deals for Orlando. Phoenix did quite well to my mind, though. They've put themselves in a strong position to win through to the playoffs.

[rabbitproof]

I guess they are now

PG Arenas
SG Richardson
SF Hedo

They look good. Lots of risk obviously with Arenas and with so much turnover to your starting lineup but Richardson >= Carter. Hedo > Shard. The change is mitigated slightly with getting Hedo back to start.

They should be an even better inside-out team with Hedo, Arenas and Richardson all starting. JRich and Hedo are good 3 point shooters and Arenas should do better with smarter touches and Dwight inside.

You lose depth in Pietrus, Gortat but now can bring Nelson off the bench.

Looks like a helluva shake-up as they were going to play third fiddle to Miami and Boston if they didn't do anything.

----

Shard for Arenas was floated by Simmons I believe and looks as good as you'll get on both sides.

----

Phoenix comes out looking good, too. VC is an expiring, Hedo's massive deal is removed and they remove their glut of swingmen somewhat and get a solid 5 who should play well w/Nash. The first doesn't hurt either.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Arenas has been taken completely out of his game while trying not to stop the development of John Wall. There's nothing holding him back now. He needed a change of scenery more than any player in this league right now.

That's absolutely right, but you haven't been getting Arenas's best for years. Ever since a bit before the gun thing. That's my real concern.

[mavs777]

Just like the mavs Orlando lacks a guy that can create for himself in the half court right now all VC is, he can be dangerous in open court but in half court he is a jump shooter. They need Gilbert to create for himself, that being said they didn't just tweak there team they completley changed it, the team imo is going to sink or swim, they won't be treading water like they are right now

[dirno2000]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

I guess they are now

PG Arenas
SG Richardson
SF Hedo

They look good. Lots of risk obviously with Arenas and with so much turnover to your starting lineup but Richardson >= Carter. Hedo > Shard. The change is mitigated slightly with getting Hedo back to start.

They should be an even better inside-out team with Hedo, Arenas and Richardson all starting. JRich and Hedo are good 3 point shooters and Arenas should do better with smarter touches and Dwight inside.

You lose depth in Pietrus, Gortat but now can bring Nelson off the bench.

Looks like a helluva shake-up as they were going to play third fiddle to Miami and Boston if they didn't do anything.

I don't know how they're planning to play it but I'd bring Arenas of the bench as a combo guard the way we do with Terry.

[dirno2000]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

That's absolutely right, but you haven't been getting Arenas's best for years. Ever since a bit before the gun thing. That's my real concern.

Gil will never return to pre-injury form but Lewis is awful. Hasn't been the same player since he had to get off the PED's.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Maybe I'll feel differently once I've thought about it a bit more, but I have to say that I don't love these deals for Orlando. Phoenix did quite well to my mind, though. They've put themselves in a strong position to win through to the playoffs.

I agree 100%, the pieces for Phoenix work much better.

Orlando was in a state where they needed to do SOMETHING to try to make it work. I'd wait to see if Lewis and Hedo can find their magic before pulling the trigger on Arenas...the deal is clearly there and nobody is jumping at the chance to get Agent Zero...just wait and see.

[dalger]

Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs

Lewis has the worst contract in the league and I don't understand the point in The Wizards taking him on for any reason, why get out of one bad contract for another? Lewis has become almost useless.

From the NBA.com article:

The deal could save Washington at least $24 million; Arenas has four years and $80 million remaining on his $111 million deal signed two years ago, while Lewis has three years and $63 million left on the $124 million deal he signed as a free agent in 2007. But only $10 million of the $22.6 million he is owed in the final year of the contract, in 2012-13, is fully guaranteed. Lewis can increase the guarantee if he meets certain performance criteria between now and then.

Both teams are basically switching plague for cholera--with one difference being that the Wizards now only have to suffer for three more years instead of four.

[rabbitproof]

Originally Posted by dirno2000

I don't know how they're planning to play it but I'd bring Arenas of the bench as a combo guard the way we do with Terry.

On paper yeah. Arenas needs the ball and shots but I don't know if his contract/attitude will allow it.

Would be a good sign for Orlando if he did though. Nelson is the better playmaker and 3-shooter than him anyways.

[tcat075]

I don't know if this new Orlando team is going to be any good. It seems like a bunch of random pieces thrown together, but if a few players rejuvenate it might work out. What I do know is that the old Orlando team was going no where. Lewis is declining more and more, Carter is close to done and extremely inconsistent, and Nelson isn't really that great. So in that respect, this was a good move for the Magic. It might work out, it might not, but I bet its better than what they had going.

[tcat075]

Originally Posted by dirno2000

I don't know how they're planning to play it but I'd bring Arenas of the bench as a combo guard the way we do with Terry.

That was my first thought, but everybody was putting Arenas at PG, so I thought I was just stupid.

Nelson's stats weren't as good as I thought, either.

[CadBane]

What a STEAL. JRich, Arenas AND Hedo (who actually thrived in Orlando). Wow. Orlando is the new favorite.

[tcat075]

Originally Posted by CadBane

Orlando is the new favorite.

Heh, no.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

What's Arenas's contract situation? At each player's best, Arenas is better than Lewis, but you rarely get his best.

BTW another example of a big trade coming with almost no advance notice.

Arenas aint at his best this year, but he's been quite good. Lewis on the other hand is absolutely DONE. He's been terrible the last two years. He's a glorified Radmonivich.

Jameer
JRich
Hedo (or start Arenas at the 2 and JRich at the 3 if you want to go small)
Bass
D12

with Arenas/JJ/QRich/Anderson off the bench is pretty damn scary.

They certainly lost some depth and youth with the pick, Gortat, and Pietrus. But for a "win now" move, this is stellar. I assume they'll sign a backup center though?

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by tcat075

Heh, no.

In the East, heh, yes.

[jthig32]

Man this is a weird trade. The Magic just gave up the expiring contract of VC, Gortat (who is still considered an asset? right?) and a first round pick for the honor of taking over Turkoglu's horrible contract????

What the hell?????

This makes me think maybe Gortat's contract isn't seen as much of an asset.

Edit to add: I hadn't noticed how good of a year JRich was having. Still....this is weird.

[CadBane]

Arenas: 17/6/3/1.5 steals. Percentages are low, but they'll rise in Orlando
JRich: 19/4/1 on 47/42/76 shooting. Scary thing is, those percentages could rise in Orlando.
Hedo: 10/4/2 on 44/42/72 shooting. Going back to where he was a borderline All-Star.

Out:

VC: 15/4/3 on 47/35/75 shooting
Lewis: 12/4/1 on 42/37/76 shooting

The Magic massively improved on their secondary shooting and scoring which is the only way they can win big games. Teams double D12, and VC and Lewis simply don't make them pay anymore. JRich, Arenas, and Hedo certainly will. This move brings in the shooting and explosive scoring Orlando desperately needed.

[tcat075]

Originally Posted by CadBane

In the East, heh, yes.

Boston is still the favorite. They're missing a lot of their big man depth, have an injured Rondo, and are still rolling with a 21-4 record and a 12 game win streak. They're really good, though I hate to say it. Orlando just got better, but it's going to take a lot of things going right for them to come out of the Eastern Conference, including Turkoglu and Arenas both fully rejuvenating, which I'm not sure they can.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Man this is a weird trade. The Magic just gave up the expiring contract of VC, Gortat (who is still considered an asset? right?) and a first round pick for the honor of taking over Turkoglu's horrible contract????

What the hell?????

This makes me think maybe Gortat's contract isn't seen as much of an asset.

Edit to add: I hadn't noticed how good of a year JRich was having. Still....this is weird.

Mr. Smith is one weird cat. He didn't want to overpay for Turkoglu, but he eventually took him back. He valued Gortat and paid for him and then he deals him away.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by CadBane

Arenas: 17/6/3/1.5 steals. Percentages are low, but they'll rise in Orlando
JRich: 19/4/1 on 47/42/76 shooting. Scary thing is, those percentages could rise in Orlando.
Hedo: 10/4/2 on 44/42/72 shooting. Going back to where he was a borderline All-Star.

Out:

VC: 15/4/3 on 47/35/75 shooting
Lewis: 12/4/1 on 42/37/76 shooting

The Magic massively improved on their secondary shooting and scoring which is the only way they can win big games. Teams double D12, and VC and Lewis simply don't make them pay anymore. JRich, Arenas, and Hedo certainly will. This move brings in the shooting and explosive scoring Orlando desperately needed.

The issue I have with the Phoenix deal is the contracts. I guess it's a move to win now, and maybe they think they can get Turk back on his game. But that deal is horrible. And the VC deal should have been more valuable (although maybe this is a sign that expirings aren't as valuable this year, something I've been pondering).

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Man this is a weird trade. The Magic just gave up the expiring contract of VC, Gortat (who is still considered an asset? right?) and a first round pick for the honor of taking over Turkoglu's horrible contract????

What the hell?????

This makes me think maybe Gortat's contract isn't seen as much of an asset.

Edit to add: I hadn't noticed how good of a year JRich was having. Still....this is weird.

JRich is very underrated. He's been pretty beastly for the past 4 years.

22 on 44/41
19 on 44/46 and 16 on 49/38 (traded mid-season)
16 on 47/39
19 on 47/42

He's shot the ball at a pretty absurd clip (shooting mostly threes). And 1 and 1/2 of those years were with the Bobcats.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by jthig32

The issue I have with the Phoenix deal is the contracts. I guess it's a move to win now, and maybe they think they can get Turk back on his game. But that deal is horrible. And the VC deal should have been more valuable (although maybe this is a sign that expirings aren't as valuable this year, something I've been pondering).

I agree. I actually jumped the gun on my first post (actually hadn't read who was involved but just saw the headline ) but I reeled myself in with the 2nd post.

They lose youth, depth, and some financial flexibility (although dumping Lewis is huge...but you take on Hedo & Arenas). However, from a win NOW only prospective, it's a pretty damn good steal.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by CadBane

JRich is very underrated. He's been pretty beastly for the past 4 years.

22 on 44/41
19 on 44/46 and 16 on 49/38 (traded mid-season)
16 on 47/39
19 on 47/42

He's shot the ball at a pretty absurd clip (shooting mostly threes). And 1 and 1/2 of those years were with the Bobcats.

Well, we're about to find out to an extent whether he was underrated or overrated. You're right that part of the time was with Charlotte but that means a majority of the time was with a Hall of Fame point guard at his disposal.

It'll be the same but in a different way because Howard can pass the ball out to an open shooter.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by tcat075

Boston is still the favorite. They're missing a lot of their big man depth, have an injured Rondo, and are still rolling with a 21-4 record and a 12 game win streak. They're really good, though I hate to say it. Orlando just got better, but it's going to take a lot of things going right for them to come out of the Eastern Conference, including Turkoglu and Arenas both fully rejuvenating, which I'm not sure they can.

That's your opinion. Some will have Boston as the favorite (and some Miami). Myself (and many others) will now have Orlando as the favorite. We'll see. But don't "heh, no" me on something that is very decidedly agreed upon by many people. You've only been watching basketball for what, 7 years? You got a lot to learn, kid.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Well, we're about to find out to an extent whether he was underrated or overrated. You're right that part of the time was with Charlotte but that means a majority of the time was with a Hall of Fame point guard at his disposal.

It'll be the same but in a different way because Howard can pass the ball out to an open shooter.

True. But his three-point % was actually even higher with the Cats. And as you said, he should thrive with D12, because like with Nash, he'll get a lot of open looks.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by CadBane

That's your opinion. Some will have Boston as the favorite (and some Miami). Myself (and many others) will now have Orlando as the favorite. We'll see. But don't "heh, no" me on something that is very decidedly agreed upon by many people. You've only been watching basketball for what, 7 years? You got a lot to learn, kid.

I wouldn't say they're the favorite, I would say they have the potential to be the favorite...stuff has to work itself out on the court, just like it did in Miami. Offensively, they did get stronger but I'm not sure they're that much better on the defensive end of the court and that matters.

[sike]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

If they can get Hedo and JR back to their games before they were traded to the Suns and get Agent Zero back? Orlando is going to be a PROBLEM.

agreed. If everybody plays nice, Arenas, JRich, Hedo, Howard is a powerful foursome.

[Underdog]

These trades seem like a reaction to Miami's recent surge, but it keeps Orlando in the mix...