Another popular thread

[Murphy3]

i think certain teams slide...
utah will slide some,
portland will slide more,
i believe seattle will be weaker,
i don't know if webber will be back in sacramento, if he goes to the east, they'll slide alot.

i think it will still be much stronger than the east, but the gap will be narrowed quite a bit.

[TheKid]

Well even if the West weakens it will still be strong which means, the Mavericks couldn't get any weaker and expect to still be as good as they are now. Taking away someone like Fin would be a SHOT in the arm big time to the Mavericks there is no way they could be a playoff caliber team with out him.

[Murphy3]

yeah there is.
if the mavs lost finley, they would in all likeliness, bring in a decent two guard and the mavs would still make the playoffs,
they'd probably be a #7 or a #8 seed, but they'd still make it

[TheKid]

That's crazy to think that. Unless they brought in another All-star, anything less caliber than that, it wouldn't happen.

[Murphy3]

yes it would, the mavs would make the playoffs.
they wouldn't have to have an all-star at the two guard position.
the mavs would struggle, maybe only win 45 games or so, but that would be enough to get them into the playoffs next year

[MFFL]

Total agreement with you murph. The Mavs would take a major step back without Finley, but not as far as TheKid thinks. Seattle will continue to implode and Portland will explode. Neither team will make the playoffs. Houston will make the playoffs next year (with or without Webber). Even without Finley the Mavs are more talented than Denver.

I like Finley better than any other player on the Mavs, but I recognize how easy it would be to sign another shooting guard. Will he be able to do everything that Finley did? NO CHANCE! But will Dirk continue to get better? YES! Will the rest of the young team get better? Probably. Our team will probably fall to the level of the Timberwolves, 7th to 8th seed in the playoffs. And we will get SO crushed in the first round of the playoffs.

[TheKid]

Why would 45 wins get them in the playoffs, it didn't get the Sonics in this year?

[TheKid]

Also, taking away a player the caliber of Finley would really bring on the double and triple teams to Dirk. Let me tell you this, without another All-Star caliber player, teams would try their best to stop Dirk and make someone else on the team beat them.

[MFFL]

Portland will not get 45 wins next year. Portland and Seattle both will struggle to break even. Denver will not noticeably improve. 44-45 wins will get you in the playoffs next year.

[Mavinator]

Teams with only one main offensive weapon don't make the playoffs? How did the Timberwolves make it? Are Wally Szczerbiak and Terrell Brandon better offensive weapons than Steve Nash and Juwan Howard?

[Fidel]

Without Finley we´d still be better than alot of teams in the west.
Webber will go east. Goodbye Sac. We´d still be better than Minnesota, Seattle, perhaps even Utah (if Stock is no robot after all).
But with Portland I´m not so sure, I think they will change their strategy and cut some guys. They will bounce back next year.

[Murphy3]

the mavs would probably make the playoffs with the current roster minus finley next year.
but i was also taking into account the mavs signing someone at finley's salary cap slot. they would definitely be in the playoffs. now, i don't want to find out, because the mavs are a better team with finley

[TheKid]

Yeah, we'd be better than the Clips, the Nuggets, the Sonics and that's about it. We would not be better than UTAH, if those two old KOOTS return. We would NOT be better than Minnesota. I don't know what you all are thinking but I don't care how much Portland self destructed we wouldn't be better than them. We also would now take a step back behind the Rockets too. That's being realistic, not biased.

[MFFL]

Just a difference in the way we evaluate relative team strengths. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

[Murphy3]

yes, you are biased, you're biased towards finley.
and that's ok, we all see that.
yes, i may be biased towards dirk, but dirk is the mavs future. everyone should be biased towards dirk because he's going to be the main guy that will take the mavs however high they go in the future. finley should be biased towards dirk, because if finley gets a ring as a mav, it will be while he's being carried by dirk.
once finley signs his contract, nellie will be biased towards dirk.
the mavericks will probably even name their next new arena 20-25 years from now after dirk.
when people think of Big D, the won't be thinking of the cowboys, they'll be thinking of Big Dirk.

[TheKid]

Am I a Finley fan, yes. However biased, I would say not. Put it this way, if you take Dirk off the team and left Finley there, do I think the Mavs would be a playoff caliber team without bringing in another All-Star, NO? I recognize the importance of both, that's not being biased in this case!!

Is Dirk the Mavs future, probably, I don't have a problem with that either. That has nothing to do with the fact that this team and the style of play is suitable to BOTH of their talents, not just one or the other. To take one of them out of the picture, then there would have to be a change in philosophy and who knows what would happen. That would mess up chemistry that it's taken two years to get comfortable with. The ONLY addition was Howard and he has shown in the playoffs he's not as comfortable with this style of offense as MANY people would like to believe.

Put it this way, the way you all talk, I hope Fin signs somewhere else. Dirk would go on to lead the Mavs and NBA in scoring and we would win about 35-40 games. You watch and see how much more difficult it would be for Dirk and Nash to do there thing without someone like Finley there.

[Fidel]

The Kid,
If Finley would go somewhere else, we would definitly get something in return. Add to that Dirk leading the league in scoring and we´d win 55 games and have a shot to win it all. (not that I think any of these events will take place in the near future, well maybe 55 wins next year that´s possible).

[TheKid]

I guess you all forget about the entire chemistry thing. Remove Finley and add someone else, it's an entirely different team. We have to readjust our offense. Nash would probably take on more of an offensive load. Would he be able to handle it? Maybe, but maybe not also. Could someone else come in and give us what Finley does from a shooting guard position? Help create shots for teammates, gives us energy, and also average 20 or more points a game and do a good job on the boards? We've done comparisons on this board before and we've come up with there being about two or three shooting guards who gives you what Fin does. News flash, we wouldn't get Kobe, Vince or Iverson. So we would have to take a step down and Houston wouldn't give it to us. Richmond, wouldn't give that to us. Not many other people would either. However you're trying to tell me we would be a BETTER team by taking Fin out of the equation?

[MFFL]

I don't think we would be better. That's obvious. However I think we would be a playoff team.

[TheKid]

If 40 wins get you in the playoffs then you're right.

[Fidel]

No the Kid,
I wasn´t saying this at all. I was just reffering to you saying Dirk could lead the league in scoring, and we´d win 35 games.
Now if we´d get something back for Fin and Dirk leads the league in scoring then I think we´d have a shot at the title not at winning 35 games.
But like I said I don´t think Dirk will lead the league in scoring next year.

[MFFL]

OK, OK! You win! I've only watched basketball 20 years, but obviously I don't know anything. Why can't anyone disagree with you Kid?

[TheKid]

Did you hear me say you can't have your own opinion?? Did you ever hear me say you can't disagree with me?? What's makes your opinion so correct?? I'm sure the majority of us have been watching basketball for more than 20 years. You all kill me, whenever someone disputes with you and doesn't want to take your side on something, all of a sudden they're crazy and they're wrong. You've NEVER heard me say YOU ALL HAVE TO AGREE WITH ME, I'M RIGHT I'm the law. NO, I have my opinions and you have yours. If I voice mine and you don't like it, so be it!

[MavsFanFinley]

I don't think it's a matter of disagreement MFFL.

It comes down to this: People say they point out when Dirk has a bad game but there is ALWAYS an excuse along with it. Whether it's food poisoning, knocked out tooth or he's young he'll only get better. Like Finley hasn't played with that foot thing (plantar fascittas-major spelling error here) before. Like he didn't play last night despite having an ear infection that prevented him from hearing out of his left ear. Did we hear anything about it before the game? I didn't and didn't read about it on any of the boards either. Dirk gets food poisoning and it's all over, is he going to play or isn't he?

I think even the die-hard Finley fans (like myself) recognize that Dirk is going to lead this team in the future. It's stupid to say Dirk isn't talented or not capable of leading any team in this league. But to say that Finley should step aside and let Dirk lead and make quotes like Robinson did with Duncan is stupid. To say that Finley tries to be "the man" and has made no sacrafices for this team is blind. I've never seen Finley demand this or that and say what I want comes first, ahead of the team. I've never read/heard anything about Finley making exscuses about his bad play in a game either. He shoulders the blame. Is that trying to be the man--if so--then I guess you guys have a point.

I think the problem is that when Fin has a bad game, he takes much more heat than Dirk does. If he's not hitting on his jumper, it's like take it to the basket or give it up. With Dirk, even when he's 3-11, it's like keep shooting Dirk, you'll find your shot--it's just a matter of time. We saw Finley drive to the basket many times in the Spurs series but how many times was he blocked? Fouled and no call? Or just simply missing an easy layup or put back?

After a bad game from Dirk--you don't hear about trade ideas.

[Murphy3]

be careful mffl, you're padding your post total. i'd watch out.

thekid, you can have your own opinion and we can also tell you when you're wrong.
so, when you post, just expect everyone to tell you that you're wrong.
you can voice your opinion, that's fine, no big deal

[TheKid]

I know, SOME people told me I was wrong for believing Iverson should win the MVP too!

GREAT POST MAVSFINLEY..

[MFFL]

MavsFanFinley - I agree that Finley gets the blame more than Dirk. I have vocally defended Finley when I thought he was unfairly attacked. But my point remains the same. Good front court play beats good guard play. How am I not being fair to Finley (who is my favorite player) to suggest that the Mavs will never advance further in the playoffs unless Dirk is featured instead of Finley. Finley will get his shots, including game winners, but our first option HAS to be Dirk.

[Fidel]

No MavsFanFinley there are no exuses, nowhere, that´s BS. And about the tooth: he had a great game there, are you bothered by that fact? Finley gets more critisism cause he sometimes doesn´t recognize when his shot is off and he should at least take fewer shots. He goes 8-24 while Dirk goes 4-11.

[Murphy3]

dirk and fin are both great/very good players.
both are going to have off games.
i don't look back at the playoffs and have any dissatisfaction with the way that either played.
i wish that finley could have ended his season on a better note though

i think the backlash towards finley that is occurring comes from the fact that for along time, on this board, in the media, where ever, finley was never criticized. if he was criticized, the people that said something negative, no matter how small were beaten down and attacked by other people that could see no wrong in finley's game. there is weaknesses to everyone's game. finley has gotten alot of credit, and it's deserving, but people in the past have been sooooo defensive when anything at all was said negative about finley. it could be argued that finley had a bad shooting night, maybe going 4-20 or something, but all people would talk about is how clutch he was when he hit an open 10-15 footer. what about all of the clutch shots that everyone else hit? people are just beaten down by the people that refuse to see that finley can do wrong. yes, he's a great player, but he can do wrong. and it's ok to be criticized a bit.

i agree that finley does seem to take too many shots sometimes when he's off, but that's not my decision and that's been discussed already.
the excuses you're talking about with dirk, when people say he's young, they are talking about, he's young and just think how much better he's going to be, not that he made this mistake because he's young.

[TheKid]

That's beating a dead horse. NO ONE and I repeat, NO ONE who has posted on this board (Atleast that I've seen) has ever said that Finley's game was flawless. As a matter of fact, the past about "critiquing Finley" I think everyone posted something that he should, could and they hoped he improved on.

Now what I think he MavsFinley was eluding to the fact at what you just pointed out in your last post. Fin goes 4-20 and you're saying he shoots too much. Dirk goes 4-20 and people say he needs to keep shooting so he can find his shot. Now maybe, that's because he has this "upside" everyone is talking about but the fact remains there are far too many times that happens. Like I said, I have NO PROBLEM if anyone feels Dirk should be the number one option, if I differ that's me. I have no problem with people saying Finley needs to improve on certain aspects (dribbling, passing out the double team, taking it to the basket more often) because he does.

However to take an off shooting night (and I'm not referring to lastnight) and say he shouldn't shoot so much then when Dirk struggles the same way to say, "well he'll find his shot." The thing is I agree with that philosophy for Dirk but I also agree with that philosophy for Fin too. I think both should keep shooting in that case. However from what I've read, I'm the only one who feels that way.

[Murphy3]

i agree, fin should keep shooting to find his touch.
but, he does need to do a better job of taking good shots when he's off. if you're struggling, you should take higher percentage shots...sometimes he doesn't do that.
but, if you've had a bad game and you haven't shot well the entire night, maybe sometimes it is better to look for the open man late in the game. that's always a tough call. and that goes for dirk or for finley<u>Text</u>

[TheKid]

I agree partially, I think both of those players just needs to keep shooting. However you're right they need to get to the basket and try to get to the free throw line so they can get their stroke going. That's an aspect that I will say Dirk does a better job than Fin. Especially when he's struggling with his shot.

For instance in the Utah game, (I think game three) Nash and Dirk couldn't buy a damn basket, but both kept shooting and hit BIG three pointers down the stretch. That's what all of these players need to do. Not just Dirk but Fin also. Nash, I think if he's off should only take the shot if it's there. Everyone else, needs to stop shooting, ESPECIALLY Juwan.

[Murphy3]

it always depends upon the situation, which, i'm sure you know
i just want to see finley make better decisions when he's not on. he needs to distribute the ball better when he's not on.
yes, keep shooting, i'm not saying that he needs to stop, he just needs to be more selective with his shot attempts, if he's open shoot the jumpshot.
otherwise, drive or create for someone else.
the same for dirk