2017 NBA Draft - Page 11 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

rimrocker · 03-22-2017, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

Will have to watch more but Fox, Monk, Frank in order of athleticism? Monk, Frank, Fox shooting wise. Frank looks pretty smooth for an 18-19 yr old running an offense. Gets into sets decisively. He and Fox look like potential plus defenders. Haven't looked at Monk yet in that regard. Monk would be paired with a bigger PG ideally. Smallish to consistently guard 2's. Could be putting up Bradley Beal like numbers in a few years.

Too bad we are likely out of Jackson or Tatum's range. I dream of super long front lines...but these guards should all be solid starters or better in the league for many years

I've heard some comparisons of Fox to Wall. I haven't seen much of Fox but see he seems to be moving up on most mock boards recently. He seems to be clearly ahead of Smith now from what I'm reading.

EricaLubarsky · 03-22-2017, 11:07 AM

I love everything about Fox except his total inability to hit a jumper. He's smart. He's tenacious. He has fire in his belly and he can run an offense, but the way the NBA is trending, I'm not sure that he'll be successful at the net level.

sefant77 · 03-22-2017, 11:57 AM

Bobcats schedule is brutal. Even worse than ours. They are going to outtank us. Lets see if the Pelicans can keep on with your win streak

DevinHarriswillstart · 03-22-2017, 12:39 PM

I'm starting to turn a 180 on Monk...especially with Curry's recent slump. Monk is bigger, longer wingspan, and a ton more athletic and quick. In fact, Monk's athleticism, aside from his shooting, is likely what puts him in the top 10. Wouldn't be surprised to see him in the slam sunk contest.

rimrocker · 03-22-2017, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I'm starting to turn a 180 on Monk...especially with Curry's recent slump. Monk is bigger, longer wingspan, and a ton more athletic and quick. In fact, Monk's athleticism, aside from his shooting, is likely what puts him in the top 10. Wouldn't be surprised to see him in the slam sunk contest.

I was thinking something very similar and am wondering what Curry's trade value would be in terms of draft pick.

It seems to me Curry, Barnes and Yogi all took a backseat when Dirk, Devin, Wes and JJ were all back together. It almost seems they were beginning to take over this team but are now deferring to Dirk, JJ, Wes and Devin as the catalysts.

Perhaps I'm reading too much into this.

Underdog · 03-22-2017, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

It seems to me Curry, Barnes and Yogi all took a backseat when Dirk, Devin, Wes and JJ were all back together. It almost seems they were beginning to take over this team but are now deferring to Dirk, JJ, Wes and Devin as the catalysts.

I've noticed the same thing... Curry and Yogi seem to be coming back down to earth because of it, and Barnes is in a scoring slump (2 single-digit scoring games in the last 3 contests -- half of his 4 total for the season).

Rick needs to get this worked out.

sefant77 · 03-22-2017, 01:53 PM

On a good/contender team a player like Curry is the 6th man scorer from the bench and Yogi is a backup PG.

So they shouldnt be the reason not to draft guy XY playing at their position

saclare · 03-22-2017, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

On a good/contender team a player like Curry is the 6th man scorer from the bench and Yogi is a backup PG.

So they shouldnt be the reason not to draft guy XY playing at their position

Bingo.

DevinHarriswillstart · 03-22-2017, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

I was thinking something very similar and am wondering what Curry's trade value would be in terms of draft pick.

It seems to me Curry, Barnes and Yogi all took a backseat when Dirk, Devin, Wes and JJ were all back together. It almost seems they were beginning to take over this team but are now deferring to Dirk, JJ, Wes and Devin as the catalysts.

Perhaps I'm reading too much into this.

You can tell more than a few players are letting Rick get to their heads...especially Yogi and Curry.

Our lottery pick will be the true test for Rick to see if he can develop them into a really good player/star.

Underdog · 03-22-2017, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

I was thinking something very similar and am wondering what Curry's trade value would be in terms of draft pick.

It seems to me Curry, Barnes and Yogi all took a backseat when Dirk, Devin, Wes and JJ were all back together. It almost seems they were beginning to take over this team but are now deferring to Dirk, JJ, Wes and Devin as the catalysts.

Perhaps I'm reading too much into this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I've noticed the same thing... Curry and Yogi seem to be coming back down to earth because of it, and Barnes is in a scoring slump (2 single-digit scoring games in the last 3 contests -- half of his 4 total for the season).

Rick needs to get this worked out.

@bobbykaralla: Rick Carlisle brought up Harrison Barnes' minutes and work load both before and after the game last night. Mentioned Curry after, too.

DevinHarriswillstart · 03-22-2017, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

@bobbykaralla: Rick Carlisle brought up Harrison Barnes' minutes and work load both before and after the game last night. Mentioned Curry after, too.

He really should be apologizing for Wes's minutes, but at least he acknowledges Barnes.

rimrocker · 03-22-2017, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

You can tell more than a few players are letting Rick get to their heads...especially Yogi and Curry.

Our lottery pick will be the true test for Rick to see if he can develop them into a really good player/star.

It's kind of a catch-22....Rick has developed a system that has proven to be successful but I think it impedes the natural abilities of certain players.
When the vets were out Rick had no choice but to unleash the young guys in desperation and they were pretty successful. Once the vets came back Rick had more control of the situation and he demanded more discipline for his system.
It could just be an adjustment for these young guys but I do agree it will be a test for Rick and our draft pick next season. I don't see Rick changing much though so one thing we should consider is which players in the draft would be a fit for his system or it could become a wasted pick.

Just my take on the situation.....I could be completely off the rail on this one but just the way I see it.

rimrocker · 03-22-2017, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I've noticed the same thing... Curry and Yogi seem to be coming back down to earth because of it, and Barnes is in a scoring slump (2 single-digit scoring games in the last 3 contests -- half of his 4 total for the season).

Rick needs to get this worked out.

One of my biggest concerns when JJ was out and Yogi and Seth were playing so well and the team as a whole was playing well was the impact JJ would have to Seth and Yogi when he returned. I noticed last night in a stretch where Yogi and the team were struggling a bit that Rick quickly went back to JJ as if he trusted him more than Yogi.

That's fine and I get that Rick will fight for wins to the end and I respect that but we'd be mathematically out of it by now if not for the youth push in January and February so it only seems fair if Rick would let the young guys carry this team the rest of the season and let Wes, Dirk, JJ and Devin be role players in the process.

DevinHarriswillstart · 03-22-2017, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

It's kind of a catch-22....Rick has developed a system that has proven to be successful but I think it impedes the natural abilities of certain players.
When the vets were out Rick had no choice but to unleash the young guys in desperation and they were pretty successful. Once the vets came back Rick had more control of the situation and he demanded more discipline for his system.
It could just be an adjustment for these young guys but I do agree it will be a test for Rick and our draft pick next season. I don't see Rick changing much though so one thing we should consider is which players in the draft would be a fit for his system or it could become a wasted pick.

Just my take on the situation.....I could be completely off the rail on this one but just the way I see it.

No I think you hit the nail on the head. I just think people are too sensitive or unwilling to criticize Rick, but honestly he hasn't had a very good year coaching. I think his greatest achievement is developing Barnes but trying to run vets into the ground just doesn't work anymore. Not when those vets don't have the talent/health to keep up with the current NBA. That's basically what killed the team early on.

And it's not THAT there are vets on the roster...it's the over reliance on them that needs to change. I think next season will be the true start to the rebuild...or so I hope.

Melonhead · 03-22-2017, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

No I think you hit the nail on the head. I just think people are too sensitive or unwilling to criticize Rick, but honestly he hasn't had a very good year coaching. I think his greatest achievement is developing Barnes but trying to run vets into the ground just doesn't work anymore. Not when those vets don't have the talent/health to keep up with the current NBA. That's basically what killed the team early on.

And it's not THAT there are vets on the roster...it's the over reliance on them that needs to change. I think next season will be the true start to the rebuild...or so I hope.

I mean I guess...Barnes just needed a place to spread his wings. Even Rick said Barnes' work ethic is second to none. He's done a lot himself. Rick gets some credit in there but I wouldnt call it Ricks great achievement

rimrocker · 03-22-2017, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

No I think you hit the nail on the head. I just think people are too sensitive or unwilling to criticize Rick, but honestly he hasn't had a very good year coaching. I think his greatest achievement is developing Barnes but trying to run vets into the ground just doesn't work anymore. Not when those vets don't have the talent/health to keep up with the current NBA. That's basically what killed the team early on.

And it's not THAT there are vets on the roster...it's the over reliance on them that needs to change. I think next season will be the true start to the rebuild...or so I hope.

Yeah Rick seems to be a systems guy and naturally feels comfortable playing guys who fit his system which unfortunately for our situation is predominately vets .
He made a comment one night after one of Seth's great performances that leads me to think he had a long talk with Seth. His comment was basically that Seth had a great game but needed to find a way to get others involved.

I love that Rick is trying to maintain his system and I know he needs his vet to help sell it to the youth but like you said his reliance on vets to carry the load is not going to work in this league...especially when none of them are even close to all-star level.

Developing youth should have been the main priority the day we made the trade for Noel and let DWill go. Winning should have only been considered an indication of youth progress.
Now I'm about as confused with this team as I was in the beginning of the season because we've gone backwards in terms of youth development as far as I'm concerned.

rimrocker · 03-22-2017, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

I mean I guess...Barnes just needed a place to spread his wings. Even Rick said Barnes' work ethic is second to none. He's done a lot himself. Rick gets some credit in there but I wouldnt call it Ricks great achievement

I think Rick's biggest achievement with Barnes is the fact he plays him and gave him a veteran's core role which is what I think DHWS was suggesting. With 4 years in the league, along with a couple of rings and 20+mil salary I'd say Rick considers him a vet and has loosened the leash on him.

Dirk's mere presence on the team is what I think is holding Barnes back from fully taking over as the main catalyst/goto guy.

rimrocker · 03-22-2017, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I just think people are too sensitive or unwilling to criticize Rick, but honestly he hasn't had a very good year coaching.

Rick is a championship caliber coach so this year has been out of his realm. I'm dead serious when I say that I think Cuban should hire Larry Brown as a consultant to Rick. I don't think Rick would be intimidated because he is obviously frustrated with being in this position and I'm sure it is killing him to have one of the few if not the only losing season in his career.

Larry Brown is a master at developing players and as far as I know isn't doing anything right now.

tap2390 · 03-24-2017, 09:52 AM

I mentioned this in the Clips game day thread, but I strongly believe the Mavs can draft a 3 like Tatum or Jackson or Isaac and have lots of success with the rook and Harrison Barnes interchangeably playing the 3/4. I think this is the future of basketball.

Sample Rotation assuming no other FAs signed and Noel re-signed:

Seth
Wes
Harrison
Dirk
Noel

then

Seth
Wes
Harrison
Rookie
Noel

then

JJB
Harris
Harrison
Rookie
Dirk

sefant77 · 03-24-2017, 10:03 AM

It looks like the top nine or ten guys are pretty much set in stone, so the Mavs pretty much take the BPA...probably its a PG or SF, so it should be a great situation where the BPA fills one of the bigger team needs.

Underdog · 03-24-2017, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

I mentioned this in the Clips game day thread, but I strongly believe the Mavs can draft a 3 like Tatum or Jackson or Isaac and have lots of success with the rook and Harrison Barnes interchangeably playing the 3/4. I think this is the future of basketball.

Sample Rotation assuming no other FAs signed and Noel re-signed:

Seth
Wes
Harrison
Dirk
Noel

then

Seth
Wes
Harrison
Rookie
Noel

then

JJB
Harris
Harrison
Rookie
Dirk

Yeah, I'm thinking Seth got the start at PG last night for this very reason... If he can be our starting 1 next season, then we can definitely consider other positions in the draft.

Melonhead · 03-24-2017, 12:24 PM

With Curry possibly being our starting PG, Im thinking just take best player available. However, I dont know if I like Markkannan (spelling) that much. He's so slow to me, and thats in college.

rimrocker · 03-24-2017, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

With Curry possibly being our starting PG, Im thinking just take best player available. However, I dont know if I like Markkannan (spelling) that much. He's so slow to me, and thats in college.

Same here. I've watched Markkanen 3 times in big games and has showed me nothing. No aggression to his game whatsoever and seems very soft.

If it comes down to Markkanen, Ntilikina or Monk I think I want Monk....especially if Curry becomes our starting PG.

And I agree with Buck that Barnes should be our SF going forward and we need to be in search of Dirk's replacement if Powell doesn't develop a jumper with range. I still wish Rick would give Uthoff some meaningful minutes because he could be that guy.

sefant77 · 03-24-2017, 01:47 PM

Monk is rising....Draftexpress has him at #5 allready

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2017/

rimrocker · 03-24-2017, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Monk is rising....Draftexpress has him at #5 allready

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2017/

This draft will be interesting to watch....Draft Room has him at 10.....updated today. But they also have Allen going to Minny at 7 so these things are all over the place. This is a site that I have some respect for.

This will be one of the most exciting drafts to watch in a long time.

http://www.nbadraftroom.com/p/2017-nba-mock-draft.html

mac222b · 03-24-2017, 04:19 PM

No way Monk makes it to us. If we are 8-12. He's top 7. Jackson and Tatum long gone. Issac likely gone but he's the most likely of those mentioned. Going to come down to which team needs of those drafting before us.

mac222b · 03-24-2017, 04:47 PM

Are we sure Allen will declare? He wasn't in one of the recent mocks I saw. And Robert Williams may return to school supposedly

DevinHarriswillstart · 03-24-2017, 04:54 PM

As set in as 1-10 are...the 10-30 range couldn't be more up in the air. Some mocks pick guys at 11 or 12 that are in the 20s for others. Hope the Mavs have done their homework if they pick after 10...

EricaLubarsky · 03-24-2017, 06:25 PM

I don't think the top 10 are as set as people think. Top 3-5 are, but there will be a lot of surprises after 5

Bryan_Wilson · 03-24-2017, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I don't think the top 10 are as set as people think. Top 3-5 are, but there will be a lot of surprises after 5

the Kings still have a pick in the top 10 right? That's one guaranteed surprise right there.

tap2390 · 03-24-2017, 10:33 PM

Monk and Fox shooting up draft boards as we speak. Fox is thoroughly outplaying Ball vs. UCLA.

mac222b · 03-25-2017, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

the Kings still have a pick in the top 10 right? That's one guaranteed surprise right there.

They will take another Center, naturally.

mac222b · 03-25-2017, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

Monk and Fox shooting up draft boards as we speak. Fox is thoroughly outplaying Ball vs. UCLA.

Only shot we have at them is if we ping pong into top 4.

Seems like the top players are clearly delineated in this draft class:
Fultz, Ball, Jackson, Tatum, Fox, Monk and maybe Smith and Isaac in their own tier. Markannen and a few others in the next tier(Nkitilina, Allen, Bridges, Williams?).

Unfortunately we will likely just miss out on the top 8 tier. There was one scout quoted as saying its a 9 deep draft. Ask 30 teams and maybe half agree on #9? According to their team needs too of course.
One of the above 8 could easily slip as obviously it only takes one team(Kings, Hornets) to fall in love with a surprise. It could be that the guy we really like is rated 15th overall and we reach for him at 10. But seems like it'd behoove this franchise to find a way to get a top 8 pick. Those seem to be the guys who have all-star or franchise player potential based upon physical traits combined with current skill.

hayth.james.g · 03-25-2017, 09:28 AM

Imo I'm happy Fox and Monk have elevated their stock. If Monk goes in top 6 that only helps us land a player better suited for us.

Underdog · 03-25-2017, 10:05 AM

Every single mock I look at has us taking either Ntilikina or Markkanen... I guess the Mavs are only allowed to pick Euro players.

hayth.james.g · 03-25-2017, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Every single mock I look at has us taking either Ntilikina or Markkanen... I guess the Mavs are only allowed to pick Euro players.

While I really like Markkanen, I have to question the fit. Barnes thrives at the 4, and Markkanen is a 4 in the NBA. Pushing Barnes to the 3 long term doesn't make sense.

I really like the idea of a "longer" 1 along side Curry at the 2. Ntilikina makes sense in that regard. Just hard get psyched for him in the same draft class as Fultz, Smith Jr., and Ball. I take him hands down over Fox though.

Melonhead · 03-25-2017, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

While I really like Markkanen, I have to question the fit. Barnes thrives at the 4, and Markkanen is a 4 in the NBA. Pushing Barnes to the 3 long term doesn't make sense.

I really like the idea of a "longer" 1 along side Curry at the 2. Ntilikina makes sense in that regard. Just hard get psyched for him in the same draft class as Fultz, Smith Jr., and Ball. I take him hands down over Fox though.

Barnes does thrive at the 4, but I worry about long term effect of guarding 4s. Thats a hard task every game. I want Barnes to be able to get the bulk of his minutes at the 3. But I agree about Ntilikina especially if Curry is the long term PG solution.

tap2390 · 03-25-2017, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

Imo I'm happy Fox and Monk have elevated their stock. If Monk goes in top 6 that only helps us land a player better suited for us.

Fox is our best case scenario IMO. A 1 who's an elite defender and athlete coming into a situation where there's plenty of spacing for him to operate.

hayth.james.g · 03-25-2017, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

Fox is our best case scenario IMO. A 1 who's an elite defender and athlete coming into a situation where there's plenty of spacing for him to operate.

I can understand the thought. I simply don't like his game. Of course his stock is at an all time high after yesterday so your thought is the prevailing sentiment.

If you can't shoot the 3, I want nothing to do with you at the 1. At least shoot it DECENT. We are talking about the deepest draft in a very long time. He does nothing for me. Ntilikina may be more of a project, but he has far more upside.

DevinHarriswillstart · 03-25-2017, 08:32 PM

If we get in the top then, then I don't really care who we draft because it will be a solid choice. As long as you aren't stupid, then you can't go wrong with top ten players ranked. As long as they commit to the draft, then you'll pretty much have an absolute shot at Markannen, Monk, Isaac, Frank, Smith, Fox. Maybe Tatum or Jackson, but I doubt the Mavs pick that high.