Who should be next Cowboys coach? - Page 5 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Male30Dan · 11-11-2010, 07:49 PM

I don't buy it and I can't see him being here starting in 2011. We shall see though. If he is it is a damn shame. Not just to me, but 95% of the people that visited this thread.

Whatever though. Those that love him, love him. Those that hate him, hate him. I'm done with the conversation at this point. Everyone here knows my feelings and until the season is over all we are doing is making educated guesses and expressing opinions.

I just hope we lose out so we have the best chance to improve our team for next year. This year is, as pointed out by Johnson, nothing more than a waste.

Five-ofan · 11-12-2010, 04:33 AM

This is one of very few issues Dan and I have agreed on but I do agree with him here. Jason Garrett is not a good football coach. Now i wont go quite as far as dan, if he wins the next 8 games then sure, let him stay. But since we arent going to win more than 3 games the rest of the way, thats a moot point.

Male30Dan · 11-12-2010, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

This is one of very few issues Dan and I have agreed on but I do agree with him here. Jason Garrett is not a good football coach. Now i wont go quite as far as dan, if he wins the next 8 games then sure, let him stay. But since we arent going to win more than 3 games the rest of the way, thats a moot point.

You and Chum... Sheesh... Obviously I was joking (I guess not obviously). Even I would have to jump on Ginger's bandwagon if the red fella brought us to the playoffs despite this start. 1-7 to 9-7? Yeah, that would be proof I was severely wrong. But guess what... Not gonna happen.

mcsluggo · 11-12-2010, 09:43 AM

J.J.'s left nut will coach the Cowboys in 2011.

alexamenos · 11-12-2010, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

Even I would have to jump on Ginger's bandwagon if the red fella brought us to the playoffs despite this start. 1-7 to 9-7? Yeah, that would be proof I was severely wrong. But guess what... Not gonna happen.

And the point is....this is a completely unrealistic criteria by which to judge Garrett over the next 8 games. Would you expect Gruden, or Cowher, or Jimmy Johnson, or a resurrected Vince Lombardi to go 8-0 with this team over the next 8 weeks? I certainly wouldn't, and I wouldn't judge any of those coaches on strictly, or even primarily, a won-loss record over the next 8 games.

The same goes for Garrett -- if your criteria for assessing Garrett's performance over the next 8 games is Ws and Ls, then your criteria is wrong.

alexamenos · 11-12-2010, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcsluggo

J.J.'s left nut will coach the Cowboys in 2011.

we should be so lucky.

Male30Dan · 11-12-2010, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexamenos

And the point is....this is a completely unrealistic criteria by which to judge Garrett over the next 8 games. Would you expect Gruden, or Cowher, or Jimmy Johnson, or a resurrected Vince Lombardi to go 8-0 with this team over the next 8 weeks? I certainly wouldn't, and I wouldn't judge any of those coaches on strictly, or even primarily, a won-loss record over the next 8 games.

The same goes for Garrett -- if your criteria for assessing Garrett's performance over the next 8 games is Ws and Ls, then your criteria is wrong.

42-3.

alexamenos · 11-12-2010, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

42-3.

The tally of votes in an internet fan forum is an even worse criteria than Ws and Ls....much worse.

Male30Dan · 11-12-2010, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexamenos

The tally of votes in an internet fan forum is an even worse criteria than Ws and Ls....much worse.

That's right. You and two others, on an Internet forum, are right and me and 41 others are wrong. Our knowledge over years and years of watching, playing, reading, etc is all shit because this is the Internet. I am wrong. You are right.

alexamenos · 11-12-2010, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

That's right. You and two others, on an Internet forum, are right and me and 41 others are wrong. Our knowledge over years and years of watching, playing, reading, etc is all shit because this is the Internet. I am wrong. You are right.

Garrett is going to get 8 games as head coach, and you won't allow for the possibility that he might be good at it and, if so, that it'd be nice to notice. This is an indefensible position on your part.

If the Cowboys look in games 9-16 much as they looked in games 5-8, then I have no problem with going any direction other than Garrett. That's an easily defensible position.

So...yes, you're wrong and I am right.

Male30Dan · 11-12-2010, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexamenos

Garrett is going to get 8 games as head coach, and you won't allow for the possibility that he might be good at it and, if so, that it'd be nice to notice. This is an indefensible position on your part.

If the Cowboys look in games 9-16 much as they looked in games 5-8, then I have no problem with going any direction other than Garrett. That's an easily defensible position.

So...yes, you're wrong and I am right.

You are right about one thing. Garrett is going to get 8 games as head coach. Period.

DirkFTW · 11-12-2010, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

That's right. You and two others, on an Internet forum, are right and me and 41 others are wrong. Our knowledge over years and years of watching, playing, reading, etc is all shit because this is the Internet. I am wrong. You are right.

Whoa whoa whoa... before this gets out of control, we need to clarify something about the poll ASAP.

My vote was a joke. Ok, carry on.

dalmations202 · 11-12-2010, 12:35 PM

Just a FYI -- before Garrett was already promoted...he had 0 votes.

Underdog · 11-12-2010, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalmations202

Just a FYI -- before Garrett was already promoted...he had 0 votes.

Yep, and I answered "Jimmy Johnson" when this poll was posted because he was the only person who might have been able to turn the season around (we were only 1-4 at the time...)

Now that the season's lost and Phillips has been fired, I'd change my answer to "Bill Cowher" - I think he's easily the best coach available (IF he's available...)

Male30Dan · 11-12-2010, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalmations202

Just a FYI -- before Garrett was already promoted...he had 0 votes.

Imagine that... Turns out 42-3 was being nice.

FINtastic · 11-12-2010, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

That's right. You and two others, on an Internet forum, are right and me and 41 others are wrong. Our knowledge over years and years of watching, playing, reading, etc is all shit because this is the Internet. I am wrong. You are right.

Male30Dan · 11-12-2010, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

Man that was a horrible game for him.

chumdawg · 11-12-2010, 01:59 PM

Been thinking about it...I think the Cowboys may whip the Giants this Sunday.

DirkFTW · 11-12-2010, 02:03 PM

We are due for another carrot of hope to be dangled in front of our eyes, distracting us from the next steel-toed kick to the crotch.

sike · 11-12-2010, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirkFTW

We are due for another carrot of hope to be dangled in front of our eyes, distracting us from the next steel-toed kick to the crotch.

made me laugh. +rep

Mav Addict · 11-12-2010, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Been thinking about it...I think the Cowboys may whip the Giants this Sunday.

But then you woke up....

Mav Addict · 11-12-2010, 02:13 PM

I expect the Giants to rack up almost 500 yards of total offense...

EDIT_ I freakin hate the Giants!...I hate the Yanks!.....I hate the NY Rangers!...and feel sorry for the Knicks

FINtastic · 11-12-2010, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Been thinking about it...I think the Cowboys may whip the Giants this Sunday.

Well I believe the Giants are going to be without their Pro Bowl Left Tackle and Pro Bowl Center. Their backup center was also out for the year. So they are pretty banged up along the offensive line. Steve Smith (who always lights us up) is supposed to be out as well.

This isn't a very healthy team right now so there is always a possibility that the Cowboys could surprise some people on Sunday. It would be nice to see us attempt to slow down Hakeem Nicks this time around.

Male30Dan · 11-12-2010, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirkFTW

We are due for another carrot of hope to be dangled in front of our eyes, distracting us from the next steel-toed kick to the crotch.

You got your carrot - Wade was fired. Expect a lot of the latter from this point forward.

Mav Addict · 11-12-2010, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

You got your carrot - Wade was fired. Expect a lot of the latter from this point forward.

The inevitable cannot be a distraction...

chumdawg · 11-12-2010, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

Well I believe the Giants are going to be without their Pro Bowl Left Tackle and Pro Bowl Center. Their backup center was also out for the year. So they are pretty banged up along the offensive line. Steve Smith (who always lights us up) is supposed to be out as well.

This isn't a very healthy team right now so there is always a possibility that the Cowboys could surprise some people on Sunday. It would be nice to see us attempt to slow down Hakeem Nicks this time around.

Good points. And the thing I keep coming back to is this: this IS a very skilled football team. I mean, it's basically the same bunch that won 11 games last year, plus a playoff game. I think we ran into some fluky bad luck early on this year, combined with crucial missed FG's in all of our first four losses. Things could easily have gone the other way. But they didn't...and then we quit.

It's a new start now, though, and our talented players didn't just become untalented overnight. Sure we have weaknesses, but who doesn't. And...the Giants can't be as good as they have looked the last few weeks. It's time for both of these teams to regress to the mean. Give me the Cowboys in a hard-fought but convincing win.

Male30Dan · 11-12-2010, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mav Addict

The inevitable cannot be a distraction...

Jerry proclaimed he wouldn't do it time and time again. Not quite sure it was completely inevitable.

I think positive distractions will have to come from the success of the Mavericks (as well as signings/trades for the Rangers).

Male30Dan · 11-12-2010, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Good points. And the thing I keep coming back to is this: this IS a very skilled football team. I mean, it's basically the same bunch that won 11 games last year, plus a playoff game. I think we ran into some fluky bad luck early on this year, combined with crucial missed FG's in all of our first four losses. Things could easily have gone the other way. But they didn't...and then we quit.

It's a new start now, though, and our talented players didn't just become untalented overnight. Sure we have weaknesses, but who doesn't. And...the Giants can't be as good as they have looked the last few weeks. It's time for both of these teams to regress to the mean. Give me the Cowboys in a hard-fought but convincing win.

I know Kitna has played pretty well, but don't forget that we have one MAJOR weakness. We are down our catalyst. Romo isn't just a normal QB, he is an all-pro caliber guy that runs our entire show.

chumdawg · 11-12-2010, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

I know Kitna has played pretty well, but don't forget that we have one MAJOR weakness. We are down our catalyst. Romo isn't just a normal QB, he is an all-pro caliber guy that runs our entire show.

That's quite true, but a coach who is worth his salt should be able to game-plan around this weakness. I don't think we are much worse off with Kitna than a lot of teams who still manage to compete week in and week out.

Mav Addict · 11-12-2010, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

That's quite true, but a coach who is worth his salt should be able to game-plan around this weakness. I don't think we are much worse off with Kitna than a lot of teams who still manage to compete week in and week out.

He has not attempted to "game-plan" the offense without Romo....I have no faith that Garrett will all of a sudden "game plan" now...

I have no faith in Kitna either...the difference between other teams and this team is when Romo went down everybody quit b/c they have no faith in Kitna either...other teams that have a less than stellar QB simply have faith that they can find ways to still win

Male30Dan · 11-12-2010, 04:26 PM

Saw this and figured I would post it. We shall see how it plays out.

Link...

FINtastic · 11-12-2010, 05:04 PM

I do wonder why everyone is treating the "Super Coaches" as absolutely can't-miss coaches. Here's a fun trivia question - of the eleven coaches who won a Super Bowl and moved on to a new team, how many of them won a Super Bowl with a second team?

Male30Dan · 11-12-2010, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

I do wonder why everyone is treating the "Super Coaches" as absolutely can't-miss coaches. Here's a fun trivia question - of the eleven coaches who won a Super Bowl and moved on to a new team, how many of them won a Super Bowl with a second team?

I know what you mean... Hell, I bet I could coach better than those bums.

FINtastic · 11-12-2010, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

I know what you mean... Hell, I bet I could coach better than those bums.

Nope that's not the correct answer. I'll give you a second guess if you want.

Here's a hint - it's a number.

chumdawg · 11-12-2010, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

I do wonder why everyone is treating the "Super Coaches" as absolutely can't-miss coaches. Here's a fun trivia question - of the eleven coaches who won a Super Bowl and moved on to a new team, how many of them won a Super Bowl with a second team?

I think the answer is zero.

And then there's the example, if you like it, of Sean Payton. Hell, he had his playcalling duties taken away when he was in New York. He's done pretty well for himself since then.

I also am fond of Todd Haley, though I recognize that he hasn't proven a whole let yet.

Male30Dan · 11-12-2010, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

Nope that's not the correct answer. I'll give you a second guess if you want.

Here's a hint - it's a number.

That is such an ignorant reason to avoid bringing in a great coach. Such an ignorant reason. It takes a LOT to go right to win it all and a comment like that is an indictment for every hall of fame coach that ever changed teams. Having a great coach is just one step. But it is one of the biggest missing ingredients for a team with our problems.

Male30Dan · 11-12-2010, 05:49 PM

I have another stat for you... How many QBs that have won a Super Bowl have done the same for another team? I have a link for you if you want to check... It is a very similar number to the one Chum mentioned above.

I guess if Tom/Peyton becomes available for a team needing a QB those teams should just immediately look away because there is no chance to win with those guys.

FINtastic · 11-12-2010, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

I have another stat for you... How many QBs that have won a Super Bowl have done the same for another team? I have a link for you if you want to check... It is a very similar number to the one Chum mentioned above.

I guess if Tom/Peyton becomes available for a team needing a QB those teams should just immediately look away because there is no chance to win with those guys.

And there's probably a good reason for that. Teams that have a quarterback like Tom Brady, Joe Montana, Peyton Manning, etc. aren't going to put them on the market when they are in the prime of their career. So it's not really a useful hypothetical to bring them up as if they are going to become available.

FINtastic · 11-12-2010, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

That is such an ignorant reason to avoid bringing in a great coach. Such an ignorant reason. It takes a LOT to go right to win it all and a comment like that is an indictment for every hall of fame coach that ever changed teams. Having a great coach is just one step. But it is one of the biggest missing ingredients for a team with our problems.

I never said that we should avoid bringing in a "Super Coach", and if Garrett totally flops over these next eight games I would probably be fine with bringing in a Gruden. I was merely pointing out that it's never as easy as bringing in a Super Coach to fix our problems. Plus, you make an excellent point when you say that it takes a lot to go right to win it all. That includes drive and hunger from your head coach.

Don't underestimate human nature here - it's a lot easier to have that drive and hunger when you're young and unproven. When you get have already proven yourself, have a fat contract, and don't have the energy of your youth, it can be hard to match the performance you put together through a masterful Super Bowl run. Look at the last four coaches in the Super Bowl - Whisenhunt, Tomlin, Caldwell, and Payton. These guys weren't brand names beforehand, yet it didn't seem to turn out too poorly for their teams.

Whether Garrett is the next of the new kids on the block to find coaching success remains to be seen. But I don't really see the point in writing him off already before he's coached his first game when the Super Coaches that everyone is clamoring for aren't going to be slam dunks (if history has anything to say about it). Why don't we just sit back and see what Garrett can do? If you've been paying attention so far, you might have noticed that he's already done some impressive things in his first week. I, for one, am interested to see if it will translate onto the gridiron.

Five-ofan · 11-12-2010, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

And there's probably a good reason for that. Teams that have a quarterback like Tom Brady, Joe Montana, Peyton Manning, etc. aren't going to put them on the market when they are in the prime of their career. So it's not really a useful hypothetical to bring them up as if they are going to become available.

You can make a similar though not quite as good argument for the coaches. Teams with enough talent to win championships generally dont change coaches because they win too many games to fire their coaches and the coaches generally dont have a better option available. (gruden is the closest exception to this i can think of, and hes a MUCH better coach than cowher imo so i have no problem pointing him out.)