We will defend Israel. - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Drbio · 03-20-2006, 10:33 PM

US President George W. Bush said he hoped to resolve the nuclear dispute with Iran with diplomacy, but warned Tehran he would "use military might" if necessary to defend Israel.

"The threat from Iran is, of course, their stated objective to destroy our strong ally Israel. That's a threat, a serious threat. It's a threat to world peace," the US president said after a speech defending the war in Iraq.

"I made it clear, and I'll make it clear again, that we will use military might to protect our ally Israel," said Bush, who was apparently referring to Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's call for the destruction of Israel.

On the atomic dispute, Bush said he hoped "to solve this issue diplomatically" with a "united message" to Tehran from Washington, London, Paris, Berlin as well as Russia "hopefully" and China.

The message would be that "your desire to having a nuclear weapon is unacceptable," he said.

Bush also touched on Iran's agreement to discuss Iraq with the United States, saying that "it's very important, however, for the Iranians to understand that the discussion is limited to Iraq.

"We're using this as an opportunity to make it clear about our concerns of interference within a democratic process that is evolving," he said, saying that the talks will not decide Iran's relations with a sovereign Iraq.

"Ultimately, Iraq-Iranian relations will be negotiated between the Iraqi government and the Iranian government," he said.

dude1394 · 03-20-2006, 11:29 PM

Don't mess with texas.

Five-ofan · 03-20-2006, 11:34 PM

I dont want another war but im glad we are doing what is right.

Mavdog · 03-21-2006, 09:11 AM

This merely restates what has been america's position for almost 60 years. altrhough I don't underestimate the iranian leadership's savvy, they surely know this linkage.

Thespiralgoeson · 03-21-2006, 09:18 AM

Very true, Mavdog. This is by no means what you would call news. Still, it's good to hear. Considering that the state of Israel wouldn't exist if not for the United States, and that without our support they might very well be annihilated by their enemies, I think defending Israel is not merely the right thing to do but our moral duty. We helped bring Israel into existance, so as far as I'm concerned that makes their safety our responsibility.

Drbio · 03-21-2006, 10:40 AM

I am convinced that the United States has become the best country in the world because of the fact that we helped Israel. If we abandoned them, I am certain that we would suffer grave consequence. You can imply what I mean here, but many of you will understand.

dalmations202 · 03-21-2006, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drbio

I am convinced that the United States has become the best country in the world because of the fact that we helped Israel. If we abandoned them, I am certain that we would suffer grave consequence. You can imply what I mean here, but many of you will understand.

Ah, to be blessed. Yes.

Gus · 03-21-2006, 05:41 PM

Actually, given how Israel fared after the surrounding Arab nations told all of the Palestinians to get out so they could destroy Israel, I think we've kept Israel at bay. They have pretty much all of our military technology. They can protect themselves militarily, it's just the UN we have to protect them from. They've gone so anti-semetic because of the Arab influence.

And we should never stop being Israel's ally. As I think DrBio alluded to, you'd don't abandon God's people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Very true, Mavdog. This is by no means what you would call news. Still, it's good to hear. Considering that the state of Israel wouldn't exist if not for the United States, and that without our support they might very well be annihilated by their enemies, I think defending Israel is not merely the right thing to do but our moral duty. We helped bring Israel into existance, so as far as I'm concerned that makes their safety our responsibility.

Mavdog · 03-22-2006, 12:52 PM

Israel should be defended because it is our ally, and a country with true democratic government. plus there are thousands of americans who are residing there

It's also a 2 way street with Israel. Although it is true that without the US money and armaments provided to them it is doubtful that Israel would still exist, they have also given back with their own contributions (the use of drones for instance, something we've learned more of via Israel's pioneering).

let's just ignore the Pollard affair. that was a very regretful episode by all participants (I hope).

IMO the idea that we should do so based on a biblical basis is absurd. If that were the foundation of our support, it's nonsensical. in the old testament we humans cannot establish a State of Israel, that can only be done divinely.

Drbio · 03-22-2006, 02:38 PM

I guess God doesn't empower people to act on His behalf. Man you can really get stuck on stupid.

Mavdog · 03-22-2006, 06:21 PM

yeah, I passed man panhandling on the street corner this morning who told me he was acting on His behalf, too...

Evilmav2 · 03-23-2006, 05:06 AM

Throughout the last sixty years, our Great Republic has, and has continued to stand by the free people and democratic nation of Israel, and that makes me very proud to be an American.

Despicable, murderous Mohammaden fanatics, and meowling, cowardly Euro appeasers aside, I'd hope that not too many folks buy into the kind of anti-Semetic, anti-American nonsense that fellows like Mavdog showed themselves willing and happy to flirt around with earlier in this thread...

Mavdog · 03-23-2006, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilmav2

Throughout the last sixty years, our Great Republic has, and has continued to stand by the free people and democratic nation of Israel, and that makes me very proud to be an American.

Despicable, murderous Mohammaden fanatics, and meowling, cowardly Euro appeasers aside, I'd hope that not too many folks buy into the kind of anti-Semetic, anti-American nonsense that fellows like Mavdog showed themselves willing and happy to flirt around with earlier in this thread...

"anti-semetic and anti-american'?

those phrases need to be defended evil, as they are not accurate in any stretch of one's imagination.

Drbio · 03-23-2006, 12:47 PM

No need to say the words "I agree" when it's pretty obvious, but I guess your simply mind needs that kind of coaching and assistance. Figures.

You've completely moved on from the premise stated (one of yout typical tactics when stupified). Just answer the questions I posed above. It's easy. All you have to do is answer.

You completely ignore the obvious.

As for your absolutely retarded statement that Israel not be established because of God's plan, what a crock. It is by His grace that Israel exists today. God's chosen people are worthy of being protected and it is our duty to do so when called upon for assistance. If we fail that calling, I am certain that His wrath follows. It figures you miss the basic obvious premise, but if you will ponder the obvious...just for a mere second....you might get it. I doubt it though.

Mavdog · 03-23-2006, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drbio

No need to say the words "I agree" when it's pretty obvious, but I guess your simply mind needs that kind of coaching and assistance. Figures.

You've completely moved on from the premise stated (one of yout typical tactics when stupified). Just answer the questions I posed above. It's easy. All you have to do is answer.

You completely ignore the obvious.

As for your absolutely retarded statement that Israel not be established because of God's plan, what a crock. It is by His grace that Israel exists today. God's chosen people are worthy of being protected and it is our duty to do so when called upon for assistance. If we fail that calling, I am certain that His wrath follows. It figures you miss the basic obvious premise, but if you will ponder the obvious...just for a mere second....you might get it. I doubt it though.

yes, you still are "stuck on stupid". go figure...

your questions were answered. you choose to ignore the answers.

god said man will not establish israel. period. as the moshiach didn't appear, god didn't establish israel either.

if you wish to use god in respect to israel, it's ridiculous to ignore what god said and mandated for israel when doing so.

but then, it's you, and ridiculous seems to continually exist in your posts.

Evilmav2 · 03-23-2006, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavdog

"anti-semetic and anti-american'?

those phrases need to be defended evil, as they are not accurate in any stretch of one's imagination.

In my experience, anti-semitism often reveals itself by stench sooner than sight, and your responses to Doc in this thread sure as salvation stink like a dirty, Parisian public urinal to me...

mcsluggo · 03-23-2006, 02:20 PM

I personally don' like how quickly people shout "anti-semitism" when someone is critical of the STATE or the GOVERNMENT of Israel. That is a VERY DANGEROUS road to travel down. Anti semitism is a horrible problem, and it still exists. However, equating the two (criticizing any action of a state VERSUS persecution/hatred of people based on race/religion) is both self-serving, and dilutes the TRUE problem of racism.

Question: Is every person who has ever questioned an action of the N.O.W. a mysoganistic sexist pig?

Mavdog · 03-23-2006, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilmav2

In my experience, anti-semitism often reveals itself by stench sooner than sight, and your responses to Doc in this thread sure as salvation stink like a dirty, Parisian public urinal to me...

that's interesting, for the stench I am sensing is that of those who would use their faith to cloak their prejudice, in a similar manner to those muslims who use their faith to express their prejudice against non-muslims.

prejudice in the name of god is still prejudice nonetheless and reeks of hate.

I'd like to read how anything that I have written is either "anti-semetic" or is "anti-american".

btw, it's pretty darn tough to be "anti-semetic" when you are "semetic" to begin with....

Drbio · 03-23-2006, 10:35 PM

Wow. So many posts were removed it makes it sound odd when you read the thread now.

Anyways, the bottom line is this. mavdog would have you believe that God can't possibly use man to further His cause because it is written that the Messiah can only empower the state of Israel. I guess God never uses man. That is mavdogs thesis anyhow.

So mavdog...answer the question and stop avoiding it and trying to sache your way through another rear kicking. It is a simple question for your simple mind.

Does God empower or enlist man to further His causes?

Mavdog · 03-23-2006, 11:20 PM

no, you misstate the facts.

I am only speaking to the subject, the establishment of israel.

the old testament is very clear on how and by whom israel will be re-established, and it is specific about that being done by the moshiach.

period.

Drbio · 03-23-2006, 11:37 PM

I mispoke nothing and you know it.

You claimed that man can have no role in the establishment of Israel which is of course....WRONG. God uses man to further His desire for Israel and it is because of His will that Israel exists. Your refusal to asnwer the simple question exposes you. You simply cannot admit when you have been exposed the fool (although that happens daily here it seems).

Mavdog · 03-24-2006, 07:45 AM

let's see, if your claim that "man" can establish israel is correct. then according to you the old testament is wrong.

you have now stated that the old testament is fallible.

hmm, what other parts are wrong in your opinion?

dalmations202 · 03-24-2006, 09:44 AM

Quote:

the old testament is very clear on how and by whom israel will be re-established, and it is specific about that being done by the moshiach.

period.

Book and verses please.......

Mavdog · 03-24-2006, 10:42 AM

The moshiach is described in the book of prophets isiah and jeremiah.

dalmations202 · 03-24-2006, 11:17 AM

Let's see. Isiah talks from before his time, his time, to the time of Babylon, to the time of Jesus, to the end times, to the 1000 year reign. Can you be a little more specific?

I'll check out Jeremiah. I haven't read it through in 6 months or so.
I'm studying Isiah now, so I'll see what I can find in there that might possibly conflict with God using man to establish the country of Israel, and the allowing it to blossom for a generation, before the start of the "end times".

Drbio · 03-25-2006, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavdog

let's see, if your claim that "man" can establish israel is correct. then according to you the old testament is wrong.

Those are your words not mine. Please do not fabricate the words of others. Disgusting. To correct you....I very clearly said that God uses man as a tool to further His desire of having Israel. You clearly stated that God could NOT use man to further His will which of course is total tomfoolery.

Quote:

you have now stated that the old testament is fallible.

Again, these are your words not mine. Please do not blatantly FABRICATE statements of others in a weak attempt at retreating. So to address your ridiculous comment...Really? Please show where. Noone said anything of the sort. You are now fabricating again to fit your retreat. Disgusting.

Quote:

hmm, what other parts are wrong in your opinion?

I'm still trying to figure out why you think God cannot empower man to execute His will. So far, you are the only one in this forum that has been stupid enough to put that out there. I guess everyone is wrong and only you are right. Maybe God is wrong too. You really do try to hard at any cost to convince yourself that you actually understand something. Unfortunately.....you do not.

Mavdog · 03-26-2006, 11:00 PM

you can attempt to distort the facts, but the posts above expose you.

your claim was I am convinced that the United States has become the best country in the world because of the fact that we helped Israel. If we abandoned them, I am certain that we would suffer grave consequence. You can imply what I mean here, but many of you will understand.

I correctly pointed out IMO the idea that we should do so based on a biblical basis is absurd. If that were the foundation of our support, it's nonsensical. in the old testament we humans cannot establish a State of Israel, that can only be done divinely.

yes, the moshiach is who will reestablish israel. and also the construction of the third temple.

so unless you can show the moshiach, the establishment of israel wasn't done in the ordained manner.

thus it's "absurd" and "non-sensical" to proclaim god's protection for israel, as israel wasn't established as god said it would.

talk about "man" all you want, throw out "His will", that's all smoke. was israel established as per god's direction or not?

It's already been answered. you just can't get it.

Drbio · 03-27-2006, 10:10 AM

Sorry mavdog. Your lipstick on that pig doesn't make it stink any less.

The fact that Israel exists today is because of the will of God. Period. The only way to satisfy your ridiculously stupid assertion would be for God Himself to come down out of the heavens in His best Bob the Builder uniform and construct something tangible. Of course, if He did this, you and your sort would be the first to point out that some loony dude was claiming to be God.

Israel exist because god wants it to exist and your ramblings, horsecrap, and verbal diarrhea do nothing but show your ignorance.

Mavdog · 03-27-2006, 10:40 AM

"lipstick on that pig"???

Keep saying to yourself that your view isn't contradicted by the facts, and maybe, just maybe, you will convince yourself that you can possibly be correct.

but you're not.

where is the moshiach? where is the new temple?

you have ignored these very basic concepts in an attempt to validate yourself.

too bad for you, ignoring these proscribed acts does not make them disappear.

it does however clearly shows your ignorance.

keep up the good work....

Drbio · 03-27-2006, 12:01 PM

It is pretty obvious what you are doing mavdog. You've even been called out by other posters. It's really pathetic that you do this every single time your are getting bitchslapped. You made a mistake. It happens.

All you have to do to clear all this up is answer a very simple question. Does God empower man to do His will?

How about a try there for once? Or should we expect your continued ignorance?

kg_veteran · 03-27-2006, 12:10 PM

Very interesting thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavdog

yes, the moshiach is who will reestablish israel. and also the construction of the third temple.

so unless you can show the moshiach, the establishment of israel wasn't done in the ordained manner.

Are you looking at this from a Judaistic point of view or a Christian point of view?

Certainly, Christians view Jesus as the Messiah (or Moshiach), and we know that Jesus said, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days." (John 2:19) Of course, he WAS the temple. Also, the New Testament teaches that Christians are the temple of God where his Holy Spirit resides.

I guess what I'm saying is, if you don't look at things from a Christian point of view, I can see how you would think that prophecy hasn't been fulfilled.

Quote:

thus it's "absurd" and "non-sensical" to proclaim god's protection for israel, as israel wasn't established as god said it would.

talk about "man" all you want, throw out "His will", that's all smoke. was israel established as per god's direction or not?

It's already been answered. you just can't get it.

Again, it doesn't appear to me that you're looking at things from a Christian point of view.

I think what Doc is suggesting is that nations that oppose Israel will ultimately be destroyed. That's straight out of the book of Revelation.

Mavdog · 03-27-2006, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drbio

It is pretty obvious what you are doing mavdog. You've even been called out by other posters. It's really pathetic that you do this every single time your are getting bitchslapped. You made a mistake. It happens.

yeah, it's so "obvious what [I] am doing", I'm calling you on your nonsensical statement.
the facts (which you choose to ignore) contradict your weak assertion.
You can't on the one hand attribute the creation of Israel to god and then ignore the very things god said would be required for Israel to be reborn.
but then logic and consistentcy aren't your qualities, are they?

Quote:

All you have to do to clear all this up is answer a very simple question. Does God empower man to do His will?

How about a try there for once? Or should we expect your continued ignorance?

no, god said explicity that man is not empowered to reestablish israel, only the moshiach.

you lose.

Mavdog · 03-27-2006, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Very interesting thread.

Are you looking at this from a Judaistic point of view or a Christian point of view?

Certainly, Christians view Jesus as the Messiah (or Moshiach), and we know that Jesus said, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days." (John 2:19) Of course, he WAS the temple. Also, the New Testament teaches that Christians are the temple of God where his Holy Spirit resides.

I guess what I'm saying is, if you don't look at things from a Christian point of view, I can see how you would think that prophecy hasn't been fulfilled.

Again, it doesn't appear to me that you're looking at things from a Christian point of view.

I think what Doc is suggesting is that nations that oppose Israel will ultimately be destroyed. That's straight out of the book of Revelation.

the christian concept of the messiah is very different than the jewish concept btw.

I look at the issue thru the jewish viewpoint.

Drbio · 03-27-2006, 12:19 PM

The only one here making nonsensical statements is you mavdog. Clearly you are a fool.
God allows Israel to be created because He wanted it to be so. He allows man to be the tools and strength of His will.

Your answer to the question exposes you as a fool. But we all already knew that going in. This just simply etches the confirmation in stone.

God can't use man to do His will? Classic ignorance. How stuck on stupid can you get there dog?

kg_veteran · 03-27-2006, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavdog

the christian concept of the messiah is very different than the jewish concept btw.

I look at the issue thru the jewish viewpoint.

That explains why you feel the way you do. I think it'd be more appropriate to say, "My interpretation of scripture indicates..." When you say, "Your opinion is contrary to the facts...", that's not really true. It's contrary to your interpretation of scripture (which is heavily influenced by your Jewish viewpoint).

kg_veteran · 03-27-2006, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drbio

The only one here making nonsensical statements is you mavdog. Clearly you are a fool.
God allows Israel to be created because He wanted it to be so. He allows man to be the tools and strength of His will.

Your answer to the question exposes you as a fool. But we all already knew that going in. This just simply etches the confirmation in stone.

God can't use man to do His will? Classic ignorance. How stuck on stupid can you get there dog?

In fairness, I think the two of you are just coming from different viewpoints.

Mavdog is looking at things from a Jewish viewpoint which says that the Messiah hasn't come yet. You aren't.

Drbio · 03-27-2006, 03:45 PM

I've said nothing about the Messiah at all. My points are simple (except to mavdog).

1. I believe the US has been blessed in many things for protecting, being an ally and supporting Israel.

2. God empowers man to perform His will on earth.

Two very simple points and two very accurate points. Sadly, mavdog doesn't get it. Again.

Mavdog · 03-27-2006, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drbio

The only one here making nonsensical statements is you mavdog. Clearly you are a fool.
God allows Israel to be created because He wanted it to be so. He allows man to be the tools and strength of His will.

Your answer to the question exposes you as a fool. But we all already knew that going in. This just simply etches the confirmation in stone.

God can't use man to do His will? Classic ignorance. How stuck on stupid can you get there dog?

so, by the above logic, what god has said in the testament doesn't matter. according to bio, everything that has been commanded by god in the testament means....nothing.

yes, according to bio god's testament does not really establish what god has commanded of we humans.

thanks for clearing that up

kg_veteran · 03-27-2006, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drbio

I've said nothing about the Messiah at all. My points are simple (except to mavdog).

1. I believe the US has been blessed in many things for protecting, being an ally and supporting Israel.

I can see why you would believe that. Certainly, I wouldn't want to be opposed to Israel.

Quote:

2. God empowers man to perform His will on earth.

Well, sure. There are countless examples of this. I think, however, that where the two of you are not seeing eye to eye is that Mavdog thinks that for the re-establishment of an Israeli state to be God's will, the Messiah must do it.

kg_veteran · 03-27-2006, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavdog

so, by the above logic, what god has said in the testament doesn't matter. according to bio, everything that has been commanded by god in the testament means....nothing.

yes, according to bio god's testament does not really establish what god has commanded of we humans.

thanks for clearing that up

Come on, Mavdog. That's not what anybody said.