I have a feeling this team is going to be really good next year. Really good. - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Thespiralgoeson · 07-12-2009, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Agreed.

Agree on this point as well. I think fans see we were a 50 win team with that atrocious team we had last season but fact is we overachieved. We may be a better team this year and may still get around 50 wins. I do think this team is definately better than last years. I still don't think we should stand pat though. I still think we should look to make some moves because as of right now we're good enough to compete but I wouldn't be shocked if we had another 1st or 2nd round exit either.

50 wins is overachieving?? Dude, c'mon. I don't think you can accuse a team of overachieving when they were clinging to the eighth seed for most of the year.

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-12-2009, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

50 wins is overachieving?? Dude, c'mon. I don't think you can accuse a team of overachieving when they were clinging to the eighth seed for most of the year.

And it's not overachieving when 50+ wins happens nine seasons in a row.

DLord · 07-12-2009, 07:00 PM

How good you are isn't defined by the sum of some on-paper estimates. It's defined by how you play the games.

So if a team is "always overachieving" in your estimation, then at some point maybe you should consider that it's not a constant overachiever - they're somehow just more talented than you tend to give them credit for.

Just sayin'.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 07-12-2009, 07:01 PM

The last two seasons #1-8 seeds were seperated by about 5 or 6 games (except 08-09 Lakers) So couple of last second defeats or an injury etc..(Dirks injury in 07-08, J-Ho in 08-09 great examples) we could of been around a 3 seed. So we weren't far away by any means. Hopefully these two moves (Gortat, Marion) gets us back to that top 3.

dirt_dobber · 07-12-2009, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

And it's not overachieving when 50+ wins happens nine seasons in a row.

boooyaaaaaah! that's what I'm talkin' bout :-)

darkwitzki · 07-12-2009, 08:05 PM

We could match with these teams:

Denver:
Gortat - Nene
Nowitzki - KMart
Marion - Andersen
JHo - Anthony
Kidd - Billups

Lakers:
Gortat - Bynum
Nowitzki - Gasol
Marion - Artest
JHo - Kobe
Kidd - Fisher

San Antonio:
Gortat - Duncan
Nowitzki - McDyess
Marion - Ginobili
JHo - Jefferson
Kidd - Parker

mavs777 · 07-12-2009, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkwitzki

We could match with these teams:

Denver:
Gortat - Nene
Nowitzki - KMart
Marion - Andersen
JHo - Anthony
Kidd - Billups

Lakers:
Gortat - Bynum
Nowitzki - Gasol
Marion - Artest
JHo - Kobe
Kidd - Fisher

San Antonio:
Gortat - Duncan
Nowitzki - McDyess
Marion - Ginobili
JHo - Jefferson
Kidd - Parker

seriously? J.r Smith will start at 2 move Carmello to the 3, Anderson can't and won't play the 3.

darkwitzki · 07-12-2009, 08:45 PM

Oh yeah sorry, my bad, forgot about JR..

ddh33 · 07-12-2009, 09:25 PM

I just don't think the Mavs had one of the 8 most talented rosters in the West last year.

I don't think the talent on this team has been that great in a couple of seasons. I thought they got a ton out of that group last year. They only had 1 starter who could score for most of the season. When Josh was health, they had two. Jet was great, and Kidd was amazing at leading this team. But I thought it was pretty obvious that the Mavs had to execute better and scrap harder to win those games. I give that team a ton of credit for getting the job done.

chumdawg · 07-12-2009, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddh33

I just don't think the Mavs had one of the 8 most talented rosters in the West last year.

I don't think the talent on this team has been that great in a couple of seasons. I thought they got a ton out of that group last year. They only had 1 starter who could score for most of the season. When Josh was health, they had two. Jet was great, and Kidd was amazing at leading this team. But I thought it was pretty obvious that the Mavs had to execute better and scrap harder to win those games. I give that team a ton of credit for getting the job done.

I respectfully disagree. First off, any time you have Dirk on the roster you are bound to be top eight if you are even decent around him. And I do believe that we were. We had weaknesses, to be sure. But top eight? I think we were.

And if we weren't, that wouldn't be all that encouraging going forward. Most of the rotation guys are still here.

Mavsfan4ever · 07-12-2009, 09:40 PM

A month ago I would have been a bit worried about us making the playoffs next season. With the additions we have made this last week I see us easily being a 50 plus team again this season, plus we will rank in the top four in the West.

binyam · 07-12-2009, 09:42 PM

lol nice entusiasim but that probably wont happen, sure the mavs got better than last year but so did everyone else, the lakers and spurs are untouchable, not to forget about the nuggets. the mavs are a better team than they were so their reward for the upcoming year would be not competing for the last few spots to make the playoffs the will probably be in the top 5 teams with a team like that(unless injuries happen). and expect the horents and suns to be out of the playoffs as their owners try to tare their teams up and rebuild

RoddyB#3 · 07-12-2009, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by binyam

lol nice entusiasim but that probably wont happen, sure the mavs got better than last year but so did everyone else, the lakers and spurs are untouchable, not to forget about the nuggets. the mavs are a better team than they were so their reward for the upcoming year would be not competing for the last few spots to make the playoffs the will probably be in the top 5 teams with a team like that(unless injuries happen). and expect the horents and suns to be out of the playoffs as their owners try to tare their teams up and rebuild

Any Mavs fan knows that rosters make no difference when our two teams play. Either one of us can beat the other, but I think it's a stretch to say the Spurs are untouchable.

Mavsfan4ever · 07-12-2009, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoddyB#3

Any Mavs fan knows that rosters make no difference when our two teams play. Either one of us can beat the other, but I think it's a stretch to say the Spurs are untouchable.

I agree with this and would like to add even the Lakers are not untouchable. I'm not saying the Lakers are not the team to beat in the West, just that they and the Spurs can be beat on any giving night like any other team in the NBA.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 07-12-2009, 10:00 PM

The Lakers are the best team in the West and nobody really debates that. The second seed is a wash between The Spurs, The Nuggets and us. It comes down to matchups. The Spurs matchup good against the Nuggets but poorly against us. The Nuggets match up good against us but poorly against the Spurs. We match up good against The Spurs but poorly against the Nuggets. (and really, with the additional of Marion+Gortat, we should matchup better with them)

So we're right in the thick of things.

But the games are played on the court and not on paper, you just don't know. Kobe or Gasol or a key Laker could get injured, but then the same could be said for us. We have an older team and there's no guarentee all of our players stay healthy. But I feel on paper we're tied for the second seed.

badfish22 · 07-12-2009, 10:05 PM

Now hang with me for a sec while i go off into "what if..." land:
WHAT IF
Kidd plays like he did last year. makes 3's and makes great passes, but now has more weapons to pass to.
Howard plays like his all-star year. He finally got that surgery and he seemed inspired at the end of last year.
Marion thrives in our offense. His boards and pure athleticism help our offense greatly.
Dirk plays like he did last year, or close to it.
Gortat plays like we think he can. Runs the floor, catches Kidd's passes, rebounds well.
Jet plays with the heart and intensity he played with last year. Averages over 15 a game.
Damp comes in off the bench and rebounds well. Guards the shaqs and duncans.
JJB is a spark off the bench. Builds on what he did last year

You got to think if most of those things happen we COULD make a run at the finals.

Mavsfan4ever · 07-12-2009, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

Now hang with me for a sec while i go off into "what if..." land:
WHAT IF
Kidd plays like he did last year. makes 3's and makes great passes, but now has more weapons to pass to.
Howard plays like his all-star year. He finally got that surgery and he seemed inspired at the end of last year.
Marion thrives in our offense. His boards and pure athleticism help our offense greatly.
Dirk plays like he did last year, or close to it.
Gortat plays like we think he can. Runs the floor, catches Kidd's passes, rebounds well.
Jet plays with the heart and intensity he played with last year. Averages over 15 a game.
Damp comes in off the bench and rebounds well. Guards the shaqs and duncans.
JJB is a spark off the bench. Builds on what he did last year

You got to think if most of those things happen we COULD make a run at the finals.

That's a big IF but if that were to happen yes, we could make a run at the finals.

RoddyB#3 · 07-12-2009, 10:12 PM

I can understand the overachieving comment from earlier. When I looked at our roster last year I didn't think we were going anywhere. I thought we might make the playoffs, but no way would we make any noise. I was surprised throughout the season to see how hard our team fought to get where they did. We even made those top teams work to beat us. Closing out the season the way we did, and bringing down the Spurs was surprising to a lot of us. With the fight this team has. I think we all wonder what it would be like if we had a better team with that same fight. This is roster could very well answer that question.

CapitanObvious · 07-12-2009, 10:12 PM

Jinx'd?

badfish22 · 07-12-2009, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavsfan4ever

That's a big IF but if that were to happen yes, we could make a run at the finals.

Ya it is but when you think about it, Kidd, Dirk, JET, Damp, and JJB just need to play like they did last year. (Easier said than done for JET and Kidd though.)
Its all up to Howard to turn up his game back to the 06 level.
Than Marion and Gortat have to fit into our offense and hopefully thrive in our system, which they should since they run and are athletic.

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

Though those all combined are big ifs, if you look at it individually they are all very realistic

Exactly.

mavs777 · 07-12-2009, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavsfan4ever

That's a big IF but if that were to happen yes, we could make a run at the finals.

Though those all combined are big ifs, if you look at it individually they are all very realistic

Mavsfan4ever · 07-12-2009, 10:16 PM

I really have a good feeling about JHo this season. I hope it's not just gas. LOL!

ghazi · 07-12-2009, 11:49 PM

We have a nice collection of players but I dunno about really, really good... it seems when you look at the past champions every team, with exception to our Mavs in 2006, generally has 2 all-NBA caliber players. Gasol/Kobe... Garnett/Pierce... Duncan/Ginobili/Parker... Shaq/Kobe...Jordan/Pippen... Ben wallace/Billups etc etc . To me, we have 1 1st team all-NBA caliber player than a smorgos board of decent talent but not all-NBA caliber talent. Such a formula can result in a pretty good team, but I'm not sure if we're championship contenders. If we're not then you can't say we're really good, just a good team maybe top 5-6 in the league.

I dunno, I just dunno...

grndmstr_c · 07-12-2009, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghazi

We have a nice collection of players but I dunno about really, really good... it seems when you look at the past champions every team, with exception to our Mavs in 2006, generally has 2 all-NBA caliber players. Gasol/Kobe... Garnett/Pierce... Duncan/Ginobili/Parker... Shaq/Kobe...Jordan/Pippen... Ben wallace/Billups etc etc . To me, we have 1 1st team all-NBA caliber player than a smorgos board of decent talent but not all-NBA caliber talent. Such a formula can result in a pretty good team, but I'm not sure if we're championship contenders. If we're not then you can't say we're really good, just a good team maybe top 5-6 in the league.

I dunno, I just dunno...

You had me until Wallace/Billups.

sike · 07-12-2009, 11:59 PM

I don't mind well reasoned pessimism (flaco), but some of the doubting Thomas's in this thread have left much wanting in regards to analysis and simple fact.

ghazi · 07-13-2009, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

You had me until Wallace/Billups.

Wallace and Billups have a few 2nd/3rd team all-NBA's under tehir belt. perhaps that wasn't the best example though... that Pistons championship team was rather unusual since it really did lack a superstar. it was likely an anomaly that doesn't occur if the Lakers weren't discombobulated/injured and if Fisher's .4 shot doesn't happen.

alby · 07-13-2009, 12:22 AM

If O-dumb is not retained, the Lakers are nowhere near "untouchable".

esoteric562 · 07-13-2009, 03:30 AM

i too feel mavs have a good shot this season! I'm interested on how the team will play together.

darkwitzki · 07-13-2009, 04:17 AM

RoBeau could be a big spark plug if he matured quickly basketball wise, Nivins, a 6'9 Bass like back up for Dirk and Ross, turned out to be the Kobe stopper.. I'll be damned.

antoinewalker · 07-13-2009, 10:56 AM

bill simmons doesn't seem to agree:

This year's Mavs are like great seats at a 50 Cent concert. You'll see them and think, "Sh*t, it's too bad this isn't 2004."

vRookie · 07-13-2009, 11:35 AM

You all are seriously overrating the impact Gortat will have on this team. Did we forget he was servicable backup to Dwight, who played something like 12 min a game?

Underdog · 07-13-2009, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vRookie

You all are seriously overrating the impact Gortat will have on this team. Did we forget he was servicable backup to Dwight, who played something like 12 min a game?

And team production dropped 0% in those 12 minutes - that's something to get excited about...

Dtownsfinest · 07-13-2009, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

50 wins is overachieving?? Dude, c'mon. I don't think you can accuse a team of overachieving when they were clinging to the eighth seed for most of the year.

I thought the Mavs won about 10 games last season that they should've lost. They overachieved. They're record against teams above .500 was horrible before the all star break. I'm not sure what it ended up being but they clearly had problems beating teams with winning records. And i've never seen a contender lose so many games by 20+. And some of those losses came against teams like the Bucks. Not to mention Josh missed a significant amount of time. I never once got the sense that this team was a good 50 win team. But maybe 50 wins means nothing in the NBA anymore.But I remember there was a time when that meant you were a contender.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

And it's not overachieving when 50+ wins happens nine seasons in a row.

I disagree. If we had the same roster we had in those 9 straight seasons I would get your point. But this isn't the team that went to the Finals 3 years ago. They overachieved. How else can you explain how this team has two 1st round losses and a 2nd round exit the past 3 years? Unless we're just a regular season team.

SMC0007 · 07-13-2009, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antoinewalker

bill simmons doesn't seem to agree:

This year's Mavs are like great seats at a 50 Cent concert. You'll see them and think, "Sh*t, it's too bad this isn't 2004."

IDK what this team is gonna do but Bill Simmons can suck it. On the other hand there is something I do know! There are NO good seats at a 50Cent concert, THAT SHIT SUCKS and always has!

Dtownsfinest · 07-13-2009, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vRookie

You all are seriously overrating the impact Gortat will have on this team. Did we forget he was servicable backup to Dwight, who played something like 12 min a game?

I don't get it myself. I mean like the moves. I think you have to make them. And the prices haven't cost us anything. But when you read these boards you'd think Gortat was the second coming. I like his will to play. I like the fact that he's energetic. But i'm not sure if he's good enough to be a center in this league that should demand 30 minutes a night. I don't think anyone knows that. And as far as Marion is concerned I wanted him 3 years ago. He was the perfect player. But in 2009 i'm not sure if he's better than a healthy Josh. Which isn't a knock but there was at time when I hoped Howard would be as good as Marion some day.

Dtownsfinest · 07-13-2009, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

IDK what this team is gonna do but Bill Simmons can suck it. On the other hand there is something I do know! There are NO good seats at a 50Cent concert, THAT SHIT SUCKS and always has!

I disagree. Get Rich Or Die Trying era? When him and Jay-Z came to Dallas? Pretty good show. He's about Ja Rule status right now.

Kidd Karma · 07-13-2009, 12:37 PM

I think Marion and Gortat bumps us up to top 3. We lost many, many games because of JHo's injuries....then when you start Barea how ever many games he did start, that puts you behind the gun to start.....in games like that Dirk has pulled us out many, many times. But with the weight of the team on him, it took it's toll. By adding Marion, you essentially allow Barea to play his role as 2nd, maybe 3rd PG. Terry becomes a true 6th man, there's less reliance on Kidd and Dirk. You keep a new player like Ross in his role as a defensive stopper....15 minutes a night. When players are stretched, stretched out of roles, like we were a year ago, you drop down standings. By adding Marion and Gortat, we added to our top 8-9 rotation, hopefully JHo is healthy and we should be a team to watch, I'd say top 3. I'm still wary of SA's roster space and who they add to be Duncan's body guard, McDyess alone, puts us ahead of SA. I think their wings are solid and smart enough to play around Duncan. Mason will get the chance to excel on the wings and Hill will have one year under his belt. I think adding a big body is a must behind McDyess. If the season started today, we're #2.

Dtownsfinest · 07-13-2009, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

I think Marion and Gortat bumps us up to top 3. We lost many, many games because of JHo's injuries....then when you start Barea how ever many games he did start, that puts you behind the gun to start.....in games like that Dirk has pulled us out many, many times. But with the weight of the team on him, it took it's toll. By adding Marion, you essentially allow Barea to play his role as 2nd, maybe 3rd PG. Terry becomes a true 6th man, there's less reliance on Kidd and Dirk. You keep a new player like Ross in his role as a defensive stopper....15 minutes a night. When players are stretched, stretched out of roles, like we were a year ago, you drop down standings. By adding Marion and Gortat, we added to our top 8-9 rotation, hopefully JHo is healthy and we should be a team to watch, I'd say top 3. I'm still wary of SA's roster space and who they add to be Duncan's body guard, McDyess alone, puts us ahead of SA. I think their wings are solid and smart enough to play around Duncan. Mason will get the chance to excel on the wings and Hill will have one year under his belt. I think adding a big body is a must behind McDyess. If the season started today, we're #2.

You're very optimistic. Didn't Ginobilli miss most of the year for the Spurs? Didn't Amare miss some time as did Nash for the Suns? Injuries are a part of the game to the point you have to expect them.

I think any NBA fan has to hope that the Blazers are another year from maturing because personnel wise, they may be the deepest team in the league. I wish I could be as optimistic about Gortat and Marion as the next man but I just can't about an unproven and by a guy who's on the wrongside of 30 who relies heavily on his athleticism.

I like what the Mavs have done but I hope they aren't finished. If there's a Udonis Haslem out there who we can get to backup Dirk and spend some time at the 5 I think that's the finishing piece. And I can't be the only one who fears our potential lack of shooting from the perimeter. You have one guy in Josh who gets trigger happy out there and you have a guy in Kidd who can shoot but gets trigger depressed.

jcm28 · 07-13-2009, 02:04 PM

Don't get my hopes up guys. I hate being dissapointed

mac222b · 07-13-2009, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

IDK what this team is gonna do but Bill Simmons can suck it. On the other hand there is something I do know! There are NO good seats at a 50Cent concert, THAT SHIT SUCKS and always has!

Yeah Simmons is usually a decent writer but that's just lazy. Even a reunited Led Zeppelin sans John Bonham, with his son Jason sitting in, would have been a better analogy. And that sucks too.