Democrats in their own words

[FishForLunch]

Democrats in their own words, see the video ...

http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=107173

[wmbwinn]

This is exactly what we will see repeatedly. The fight between Hillary and Obama went on for so long that Hillary has already researched and used nearly all of the points of attack against Obama. This will be particularly effective as a technique for McCain to attack IF Obama is stupid enough to pick Hillary as his Vice Prez choice. Can you imagine 5 months of re-plays of Hillary slamming Obama while Obama is trying to run with Hillary as his VP???

In addition to using Hillary's attacks against Obama, you will also see the traditional Republican attacks against a man as liberal as Obama. You can be very certain to see McCain attack Obama on his foreign policy and military views and military experience and his politically suicidal statements that he wants to hang out with the leader of Iran and other idiots who hate us.

You are about to witness the most hostile presidential campaign ever. McCain can only win if he succeeds in destroying Obama. That is what he will attempt.

[Flacolaco]

Wow. Nice video.

Way to go Hillary......vomit.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Well the good thing about that video is Obama beat all of them (who ran) to the nomination. Pretty impressive for someone with "no experience" to take down the empire of established names.

We'll see the inexperience videos versus Bush third term videos. I wonder which argument will resonate more with people?

[wmbwinn]

Hillary turned the tide there towards the end. She just failed miserably for a long stretch there in the middle.

But, the point is that the attack machine of Hillary was really starting to show dividends. It was too little too late.

But, the attack machine will go into overdrive now. It will get a lot hotter. If Obama's wife didn't like Bill Clinton, wait and see what she thinks about John McCain. The old warrior is putting on the vestitures of battle...

[wmbwinn]

"No matter who wins this election, the direction of this country is going to change dramatically," McCain said. "But the choice is between the right change and the wrong change; between going forward and going backward."

The Navy veteran and former Vietnam prisoner of war noted that Obama opposed the troop-increase strategy that has been credited with helping to curb violence, and he pointedly accused Obama of withholding money from troops.

"Senator Obama opposed the new strategy, and, after promising not to, voted to deny funds to the soldiers who have done a brilliant and brave job of carrying it out," McCain said.

A year ago, Obama voted against a funding bill for the Iraq war because it lacked a timetable for withdrawing troops. At the time, Obama said the bill would give Bush "a blank check to continue down this same, disastrous path."

Obama had previously opposed a deadline for troop withdrawal but shifted under pressure from liberal Democrats to seek a withdrawal of combat troops by the end of 2009. In contrast, McCain is an ardent supporter of the war and opposes a quick pullout.

Obama has also said he'd be willing to meet without preconditions with leaders of countries such as Cuba and North Korea.

In many ways, the fall campaign has already begun. The Democratic National Committee has been in general election mode for months, airing national ads against McCain, shadowing his campaign events and conducting a rapid-response program.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080604/...dIURQAnwlh24cA

The above is basically exactly what I said after watching the video...

Obama started falling under the attack machine of Hillary. Now, the real attack machine is cranking up. An attack machine within one's own party is limited due to reasons of "friendly fire wounded".

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

"No matter who wins this election, the direction of this country is going to change dramatically," McCain said. "But the choice is between the right change and the wrong change; between going forward and going backward."

Like there's any difference between Obama & McCain??? They both pledged another decade of war in the Middle East if they get elected... The Democrats & Republicans are exactly the same - their only motivation is to serve the ruling class of this country (themselves...)




Remember when George Bush appointed a conservative judge to the Supreme Court and had abortion abolished (like he promised to his constituents)?

Me Neither...


Remember when the Democrats won Congress in 2006 and pulled all our troops out of Iraq (like they promised to their constituents)?

Me neither...

[dude1394]

Oh I think there are a few differences.

MURTHA: This is what the Marine Corps told me at the highest level. The Commandant of the Marine Corps was in my office just last week, so you know. I know there was a cover-up someplace. They knew about this a few days afterwards and there’s no question the chain of command tried to stifle the story. I can understand why, but that doesn’t excuse it. Something like this has to be brought out to the public, and the people have to be punished.

CAMP PENDLETON, Calif. (AP) - A Marine intelligence officer accused of trying to cover up the killings of 24 Iraqis appeared stunned at first when a jury acquitted him of the charges.

For more than two years, 1st Lt. Andrew Grayson had been under suspicion, accused of ordering the destruction of evidence in the biggest U.S. criminal case involving Iraqi deaths to come out of the war.

"I didn't really believe it was going to end until they said not guilty," Grayson said in his first public comments following the verdict. "The case was so volatile, you didn't know which way it was going to go."

Grayson had always maintained his innocence. On Wednesday, a military jury agreed with him.

Cheers erupted as the jury found him not guilty of ordering a sergeant to delete photographs of the bodies from a digital camera and laptop computer.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Remember when George Bush appointed a conservative judge to the Supreme Court and had abortion abolished (like he promised to his constituents)?

This sounds like a stretch to be honest. I'd like to see a quote. If I recall dubya usually contented that he believe abortion was settled law.

[dude1394]

So I was looking up what dubya had to say about abortion due to the above post. This site came up. Interesting. In all honesty I don't know how accurate it is, I expect it's not much.

But it was interesting seeing all opinion makers, candidates ranked in some manner with their opinions on items listed.

http://www.issues2000.org/default.htm

In general I don't consider dubya to be a hard conservative, but some do.

McCain - Populist Leaning Conservative
Obama- Hard Core Liberal
Clintion - Hard Core Liberal
Dubya - Hard Core Conservative
Kerry - Hard Core Liberal.
....i'm trying to find a non-hard-core-liberal democrat...How about a help?
Howard Dean -- Ah they give old howard a moderate-liberal tag.
Lieberman - Gets the moderate liberal populist tag.

Interesting...but dubious.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by dude1394

....i'm trying to find a non-hard-core-liberal democrat...How about a help?

They're in the same place as non-hard-core-conservative Republicans - in your imagination...

If you're looking for moderation, try searching outside the Two Party System...

[Flacolaco]

Originally Posted by Underdog

They're in the same place as non-hard-core-conservative Republicans

Where McCain is?

[wmbwinn]

non-hard-core-liberal democrat= John McCain

He just wears a Republican nametag.

[alby]

Canada anyone? Conservatives are currently in power in that country =P

[wmbwinn]

"If you're looking for moderation, try searching outside the Two Party System..."

The election is always decided by moderates in the middle. The truth in your statement is that the moderates are usually choosing between two "hard core" polar opposites who do not really represent their moderate views.

This time, John McCain is truly a moderate overall. You can pick individual items like the military but I appreciate (and truly respect your knowledge and honesty) that you clearly stated that Obama (just like McCain) has said repeatedly when pushed that he has no plan to end the war abruptly or prematurely. Obama intends to seek victory just like McCain.

So, if you "delete" the military question from the debate (and most Americans blindly believe that Obama is going to end the war although Obama himself says he is not), then you are left with McCain as a populist moderate and Obama as a pro socialization liberal.

So, if you truly understand the war issue and truly want to aim at the center... then you are stuck with McCain.

And, for the record once again: I don't like McCain either. But, I sure can't vote for Obama.

[wmbwinn]

Originally Posted by alby

Canada anyone? Conservatives are currently in power in that country =P

I have lived in Canada (British Columbia) and love the land with its beauty. Its people are friendly.

But, it is truly funny to me to see conservatives leading Canada. Canada is what Obama and company want us to be:
1)weak military financial committment, eventually a weak military as a result (is it not the constant strategy to stop war by refusing to fund it????)
2)socialized medicine which really works poorly (I know this having been a patient there once). If you want to be very specific on this topic, Hillary pushed harder for truly socialized medicine that Obama. Obama's plan is very vague in its details (like everything else he "appears" to stand for).
3)Canada has a VERY HIGH tax rate for the people dumb enough to work. The smart ones don't work and live off the socialized system.

Anyway, for all of you that want to be Canada, I say: Go live there for a few years and come back and let me know what you think...

And, perhaps even the Green Peace Hippie, pot smoking, free sex Canadians have figured out that they need some Conservatives...

[alby]

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

And, perhaps even the Green Peace Hippie, pot smoking, free sex Canadians have figured out that they need some Conservatives...

The whole world needs Conservatives

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by alby

The whole world needs Conservatives

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to alby again.

I am very saddened that I couldn't give you rep for that one.

[Flacolaco]

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

non-hard-core-liberal democrat= John McCain

He just wears a Republican nametag.

After I found out about his plan to ruin the U.S. economy with global warming legislaiton, I think I'm going to vote for W again in November.

I just don't know how I can vote for any of these people. Why can't we get a real conservative?

[ShaggyDirk]

shocker

[ShaggyDirk]

why can't we have a real presidential candidate? 1 great person out of 400 million isn't to much to ask, IMO

[mcsluggo]

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

I have lived in Canada (British Columbia) and love the land with its beauty. Its people are friendly.

But, it is truly funny to me to see conservatives leading Canada. Canada is what Obama and company want us to be:
1)weak military financial committment, eventually a weak military as a result (is it not the constant strategy to stop war by refusing to fund it????)
2)socialized medicine which really works poorly (I know this having been a patient there once). If you want to be very specific on this topic, Hillary pushed harder for truly socialized medicine that Obama. Obama's plan is very vague in its details (like everything else he "appears" to stand for).
3)Canada has a VERY HIGH tax rate for the people dumb enough to work. The smart ones don't work and live off the socialized system.

Anyway, for all of you that want to be Canada, I say: Go live there for a few years and come back and let me know what you think...

And, perhaps even the Green Peace Hippie, pot smoking, free sex Canadians have figured out that they need some Conservatives...

and that is because "conservative" is a relative thing. "Conservatives" in canada are basically Bill Clinton (from the waist up).

Conservatives suck. Pinkos suck. What the world needs is moderates.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by mcsluggo

Conservatives suck. Pinkos suck. What the world needs is moderates.

What the world needs is to drop meaningless words such as "conservative," "liberal" and "moderate" and get back to ideas like "progression" (I don't see either McCain or Obama exemplifying that...)

[jefelump]

from Underdog:
What the world needs is to drop meaningless words such as "conservative," "liberal" and "moderate" and get back to ideas like "progression" (I don't see either McCain or Obama exemplifying that...)

The Progressives are nothing more than Liberals, with a new label.

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Underdog

What the world needs is to drop meaningless words such as "conservative," "liberal" and "moderate" and get back to ideas like "progression" (I don't see either McCain or Obama exemplifying that...)

Geez Underdog....stop being such a nonconformist.

[Some Guy]

Originally Posted by ShaggyDirk

why can't we have a real presidential candidate? 1 great person out of 400 million isn't to much to ask, IMO

"It is not in the nature of politics that the best men should be elected. The best men do not want to govern their fellowmen. " - George Macdonald

[Flacolaco]

Originally Posted by Some Guy

"It is not in the nature of politics that the best men should be elected. The best men do not want to govern their fellowmen. " - George Macdonald

Allow me to quote "The Hitch hikers guide to the galaxy"

The major problem - one of the major problems, for there are several - one of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them.

To summarize: it is a well known fact, that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it. To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job. To summarize the summary of the summary: people are a problem.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Allow me to quote "The Hitch hikers guide to the galaxy"

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Flacolaco again."

[Ninkobei]

jeeze, the republican attack machine is ruthless...if Obama was having a tough time defending what Hill Hill was saying about him, I cant see how he's going to defend against these comments.. *mouse squeak* go obama */end squeak*

[ShaggyDirk]

I <3 Underdog

[purplefrog]

Hillary's criticisms of Obama were and are justified. Those issues (along with the others by Dem candidates) are legitimate and needed to be brought to the table. I am still shocked by Obamamania because the issues we are facing are so serious its hard to justify putting a novice in the White House at this point in time.

I may continued to be shocked by Obama's appeal. But this whole campaign reminds me of a saying my Dad used to make about this time every election cycle:

"The Democrats could screw up a one car funeral".

[wmbwinn]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

After I found out about his plan to ruin the U.S. economy with global warming legislaiton, I think I'm going to vote for W again in November.

I just don't know how I can vote for any of these people. Why can't we get a real conservative?

McCain is a man I strongly dislike. I dislike 80% of what he stands for. I absolutely can't stand his environment position. And, I'm not an owner of an oil rig. I just don't see logic or accuracy in the Green Peace political movement. Global warming is a theory. There are many respected scientist who disagree with the global warming theory.

Anyway, at the end of the day, my choices are:
1)McCain
2)Obama
3)don't vote which is the same as a vote FOR the one you like the least (because you cost the other one a vote).

I will have to plug my nose, puke, and vote McCain.

[wmbwinn]

Originally Posted by Underdog

What the world needs is to drop meaningless words such as "conservative," "liberal" and "moderate" and get back to ideas like "progression" (I don't see either McCain or Obama exemplifying that...)

In the day of the "Progressive" movement, we had the massive growth of the Federal Government. Obama is definitely a Progressive. A Progressive is a Liberal. Just a new name for a new time.

[jefelump]

Precisely what I said... same Liberals with a new label.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to wmbwinn again.

[jefelump]

from Ninkobei:
jeeze, the republican attack machine is ruthless...if Obama was having a tough time defending what Hill Hill was saying about him, I cant see how he's going to defend against these comments.. *mouse squeak* go obama */end squeak*

The so called "Republican Attack Machine" is spineless. Most conservatives believe the Republicans in office are a bunch of wusses. Heck, look at how much criticism GW has taken over the years, without responding AT ALL.

[chumdawg]

This has been a fascinating thread thus far. I hope to be able to contribute something substantive to it in the near future, but for now I will submit for your amusement a delightful little ditty by the great singer-songwriter Todd Snider...

It's the kind of thing, honestly, that everyone should enjoy no matter what side you are on. The thing about it is that it's not filled with hate, like so much of our political dialogue these days so unfortunately is. Rather, it's a somewhat self-deprecating look at the issues of the day. (And honestly, I've been a conservative all my life, but I recognize that everyone's hands are red, if you know what I mean.)

So enjoy Todd Snider's "Conservative Christian Right Wing Republicans":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nMTfZFntjU

If you can't poke fun at yourself, then what good are you?

And if you enjoyed that ditty--and really, even if you didn't--you ought to check out the song that turned me on to Todd Snider, "The Ballad of the Kingsmen":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHxpEUS94hA

You've got to listen to the lyrics of this baby...and I mean all the way through, as it picks up pace at the end. This is anti-establishment the way it's meant to be done! No harm, no threat, no foul, and maybe everybody thinks about things a little more as a result.

What we need in this country is productive discourse. And we so desperately lack it...

[dude1394]

Yup...the two parties are JUST alike.

For several decades, the Democratic Party has pursued policies designed to drive up the cost of petroleum, and therefore gas at the pump. Remarkably, the Democrats don't seem to have taken much of a political hit from the current spike in gas prices. Probably that's because most people don't realize how different the two parties' energy policies have been.

Congressman Roy Blunt put together these data to highlight the differences between House Republicans and House Democrats on energy policy:

ANWR Exploration House Republicans: 91% Supported House Democrats: 86% Opposed

Coal-to-Liquid
House Republicans: 97% Supported
House Democrats: 78% Opposed

Oil Shale Exploration
House Republicans: 90% Supported
House Democrats: 86% Opposed

Outer Continental Shelf (OCS) Exploration
House Republicans: 81% Supported
House Democrats: 83% Opposed

Refinery Increased Capacity
House Republicans: 97% Supported
House Democrats: 96% Opposed

SUMMARY

91% of House Republicans have historically voted to increase the production of American-made oil and gas.

86% of House Democrats have historically voted against increasing the production of American-made oil and gas.

To comment on this post go here.

[jefelump]

I think it would be interesting to see how Obama and McCain stand on each item listed by dude1394. I know McCain is against exploration/drilling in ANWR.

http://newsmax.com/hostetter/anwr_oi.../14/96049.html

Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., announced on May 13 that he had missed the vote in the U.S. Senate, but had he been there, he would have voted against further exploration in ANWR.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by jefelump

I think it would be interesting to see how Obama and McCain stand on each item listed by dude1394. I know McCain is against exploration/drilling in ANWR.

http://newsmax.com/hostetter/anwr_oi.../14/96049.html

On this issue, he's an idiot. Issue is too broad a word here actually. One of the reasons I don't want senators in the white house is because of this crap. He's voted against it, he's voted to keep it's budget. He's voted against ethanol subsidies but has supported global warming crap.

McCain is the most moderate candidate in the race, bar none and it pushes him to some idiotic positions. this is one of them.

[jefelump]

Obama is an idiot on this too...

http://obama.senate.gov/speech/06022...rity/index.php

It would be nice if we could produce our way out of this problem, but it's just not possible. We only have 3% of the world's oil reserves. We could start drilling in ANWR today, and at its peak, which would be more than a decade from now, it would give us enough oil to take care of our transportation needs for about a month.