Mavs seeding

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

How do we cut Powell? Dude still has two years left after this one and both are guaranteed money.

And J-Rich only can be "cut loose" if he opts out. If he opts in, he's making his money guaranteed.

Yea. Powell isn't going anywhere, and he will probably be here after he retires too in capacity.

[turin]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

How do we cut Powell? Dude still has two years left after this one and both are guaranteed money.

And J-Rich only can be "cut loose" if he opts out. If he opts in, he's making his money guaranteed.

You're correct. I probably should've been more aware of my language. Those are my top 3 to be gone by any means necessary, which sadly, means that we are more than likely stuck with them.

I meant "cut loose" as in get rid of them. I WISH we could release them. The Mavs always paint themselves in a corner it seems with terrible contracts. If they don't take one on, then they create one by bidding against themselves and overpaying for too long (Powell). SMH

[turin]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Yea. Powell isn't going anywhere, and he will probably be here after he retires too in capacity.

I can hardly wait for his jersey to be retired in the rafters. :-O

[tap2390]

Porzingis - $31,650,600
Powell - $11,080,125
Doncic - $10,174,391
Kleber - $8,825,000
Cauley Stein - $4,100,000 (TO)
DFS - $4,000,000
Burke - $3,150,000
Green - $2,957,520
Brunson - $1,802,057 (TO)
Terry - $1,517,981


Puts us at $79,257,674 if Richardson declines his option and we dismiss all cap holds. That gives us about $32 million in cap space. That gives us enough space to max John Collins with a first year salary of $28 million.

If Richardson exercises his option, that would put us at $89,748,938, or $85,648,938 if we decline WCS's option. We are damn close to being able to max out Collins either way, with many movable pieces to make it happen.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by turin

You're correct. I probably should've been more aware of my language. Those are my top 3 to be gone by any means necessary, which sadly, means that we are more than likely stuck with them.

I meant "cut loose" as in get rid of them. I WISH we could release them. The Mavs always paint themselves in a corner it seems with terrible contracts. If they don't take one on, then they create one by bidding against themselves and overpaying for too long (Powell). SMH

To be fair to Powell, prior to his injury he was one of the best roll men in the league.

[SMC0007]

DP wasn't worth 3/33...ever. but if it makes people feel better.. Only $6,000,000 guaranteed in 2022/23, HoopsHype has learned. He can make an extra $1,000,000 in incentive compensation in 2020/21, 2021/22 and 2022/23.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

DP wasn't worth 3/33...ever. but if it makes people feel better.. Only $6,000,000 guaranteed in 2022/23, HoopsHype has learned. He can make an extra $1,000,000 in incentive compensation in 2020/21, 2021/22 and 2022/23.

He MIGHT be tradable in 2022-2023

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Porzingis - $31,650,600
Powell - $11,080,125
Doncic - $10,174,391
Kleber - $8,825,000
Cauley Stein - $4,100,000 (TO)
DFS - $4,000,000
Burke - $3,150,000
Green - $2,957,520
Brunson - $1,802,057 (TO)
Terry - $1,517,981


Puts us at $79,257,674 if Richardson declines his option and we dismiss all cap holds. That gives us about $32 million in cap space. That gives us enough space to max John Collins with a first year salary of $28 million.

If Richardson exercises his option, that would put us at $89,748,938, or $85,648,938 if we decline WCS's option. We are damn close to being able to max out Collins either way, with many movable pieces to make it happen.

Have to include the minimum roster holds. If we only have 10 players that means 3 holds of 900k ish so -2.7m from the total.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Have to include the minimum roster holds. If we only have 10 players that means 3 holds of 900k ish so -2.7m from the total.

Good point -- thanks for the correction.

[SMC0007]

Look, we are going to sign Collins and turn KP into 2 solid players this offseason via trade. Ending up with Collins, 1 starter and 1 good rotation player.

That...or...we use THJ and JJ expirings to give THJ a raise. Maybe even lock DP up for another 4 or 5 years. We really can't afford either of those to to hit the free market. You know they'd go to the Lakers or Nets and win a few chips.

[washedklean77]

On a different note: there have been a ton of absolute blowouts this season in the NBA. Last night alone offered 10 games where three games where decided by 30+ points. I'm so glad that I'm not a Mavs season ticket holder anymore as it'd be tough to make that kind of financial commitment upon a very unpredictable, and often times poor, product.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by washedklean77

On a different note: there have been a ton of absolute blowouts this season in the NBA. Last night alone offered 10 games where three games where decided by 30+ points. I'm so glad that I'm not a Mavs season ticket holder anymore as it'd be tough to make that kind of financial commitment upon a very unpredictable, and often times poor, product.

You have a .53% chance of seeing a Mavs win if you attend home games. That's not great. I wouldn't waste my time personally. Between parking$, traffic, concessions$ and the complete toss up whether we win or not, it's not worth it for me for even 1 game, much less season tickets.

[washedklean77]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

You have a .53% chance of seeing a Mavs win if you attend home games. That's not great. I wouldn't waste my time personally. Between parking$, traffic, concessions$ and the complete toss up whether we win or not, it's not worth it for me for even 1 game, much less season tickets.

You're absolutely right. I was a season ticket holder between 2001 - 2012 and while those seasons offered lots of disappointment at times, I saw some really awesome players and Mavs teams. I knew when walking into the AAC that the Mavs had a really good chance of winning. Where now, you have zero idea of how the team will play - regardless of who they're playing. I'd just rather spend my time, money and energy into something that I can actually control the outcome of.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

You have a .53% chance of seeing a Mavs win if you attend home games. That's not great. I wouldn't waste my time personally. Between parking$, traffic, concessions$ and the complete toss up whether we win or not, it's not worth it for me for even 1 game, much less season tickets.

I remember when the Mavs once had one of the best HCA in the NBA

The arena used to be rocking from start to finish

I think around 2010 even though they still sold out games the atmosphere just wasn't the same as those early 2000 years

[EricaLubarsky]

Mavs against the West

Utah - 1-2 (two losses early and then a big win)
Suns 0-3 (swept)
Clippers 2-1 (early blowout and good win later)
Nuggets 2-1
Lakers 2-1 (0-1 healthy, 2-0 without LeBron)
Portland 1-2
Memphis 2-0
San Antonio 2-1
Warriors 2-1

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

We are all Conditioned for sure.

I think Collins is realistic but they sure as hell better have a backup plan on the ready.

I'd take Shroeder all day over THJ. He is a gritty player and has better offensive balance.

If we got Collins, KP would become our 3rd best imo.

But I'd be shopping KP personally, I've had enough of the fragility. There's a limit to what I'd be willing to trade him for, um not interested in 60% on trade value but I would be ok at 80c on the dollar. We paid for the risk and I'd like out but only at a certain point. I'd be all ears in off season.

I cant stress it enough. Collins on a rookie max deal isnt a bad contract. He would still have good trade value (expiring + multiple FRP or talents).

There is ZERO chance that Schlenk let Collins walk to the Mavs. Thats career suicide right there. Hawks are going to match any max deal anyway. If they need to cut money they just trade Gallo to a desperate playoff team or trade Collins after 90 days.

Letting THJ and Richardson walk to play the RFA game this summer would be absolute moronic. The FA is allready so thin, you dont play this game after almost a week because after that the FA market is going to be dead.

If they want Collins, tell his agents to force his way out.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by sefant77

I cant stress it enough. Collins on a rookie max deal isnt a bad contract. He would still have good trade value (expiring + multiple FRP or talents).

There is ZERO chance that Schlenk let Collins walk to the Mavs. Thats career suicide right there. Hawks are going to match any max deal anyway. If they need to cut money they just trade Gallo to a desperate playoff team or trade Collins after 90 days.

Letting THJ and Richardson walk to play the RFA game this summer would be absolute moronic. The FA is allready so thin, you dont play this game after almost a week because after that the FA market is going to be dead.

If they want Collins, tell his agents to force his way out.

JRich controls his own destiny so it doesn't matter what we want.

Letting them walk would be more than fine. What more do you think you're going to see from them? The inconsistency is a killer and there's no way around it. THJ provides almost nothing aside from when he's streaking behind the arc. He can not mix up his game and can't defend. I'd rather roll the dice.

The FO HAS to put a team around Luka, whether it's Collins or not. KP isn't carrying his weight. THJ and JR aren't either.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

JRich controls his own destiny so it doesn't matter what we want.

Letting them walk would be more than fine. What more do you think you're going to see from them? The inconsistency is a killer and there's no way around it. THJ provides almost nothing aside from when he's streaking behind the arc. He can not mix up his game and can't defend. I'd rather roll the dice.

The FO HAS to put a team around Luka, whether it's Collins or not. KP isn't carrying his weight. THJ and JR aren't either.

Re-signing THJ and Josh (and im talking to value contracts and not "at all costs because win now blabla) isnt about seeing them as missing pieces or as pieces to contend. Its about not making the team worse in Lukas 4th year and (specially) creating trade value. Because via trade is the only way to really improve the team or get a borderline allstar etc.

Because the FA this summer is dead and thats just our bad luck. Just look at this crap: https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/

Kawhi isnt leaving
Jazz arent letting Conley walk
DeRozan doesnt really fit the Mavs offense
Oladipo stays in Miami
Holmes allready told he would love to stay in Sac and Bagley and his dad want out anyway
Lakers need to pay Schröder, they cant afford to lose him at all. And i know Schröder as a fellow german. He is the anti Dirk, he isnt leaving LA to go to Dallas
Fournier is basically THJ in a glass body
Oubre is terrible
Portland arent letting Powell walk, they are going to overpay him

So there is that. Honestly i think the best shot for the Mavs is signing THJ and Josh to nice value contracts. And then trying to pick up pieces with huge upside like Frank or (healty) Otto Porter...

And then Luka needs to do the thing Dirk never wanted to do. Tamper, make other guys wanting to play in Dallas etc. And then you throw Josh or THJ in the trade etc

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Re-signing THJ and Josh (and im talking to value contracts and not "at all costs because win now blabla) isnt about seeing them as missing pieces or as pieces to contend. Its about not making the team worse in Lukas 4th year and (specially) creating trade value. Because via trade is the only way to really improve the team or get a borderline allstar etc.

Because the FA this summer is dead and thats just our bad luck. Just look at this crap: https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/

Kawhi isnt leaving
Jazz arent letting Conley walk
DeRozan doesnt really fit the Mavs offense
Oladipo stays in Miami
Holmes allready told he would love to stay in Sac and Bagley and his dad want out anyway
Lakers need to pay Schröder, they cant afford to lose him at all. And i know Schröder as a fellow german. He is the anti Dirk, he isnt leaving LA to go to Dallas
Fournier is basically THJ in a glass body
Oubre is terrible
Portland arent letting Powell walk, they are going to overpay him

So there is that. Honestly i think the best shot for the Mavs is signing THJ and Josh to nice value contracts. And then trying to pick up pieces with huge upside like Frank or (healty) Otto Porter...

And then Luka needs to do the thing Dirk never wanted to do. Tamper, make other guys wanting to play in Dallas etc. And then you throw Josh or THJ in the trade etc

THJ isn't taking a pay cut AND missing an opportunity to start somewhere else just to come off the bench here for less money. He is not available for a value deal.

JRich has the option, no guarantee there. I hope he opts out.

Relying on the same guys, including KP, is not making the team better. If people are afraid that Luka is going to leave, bring this crap back for another year and it might just happen.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Re-signing THJ and Josh (and im talking to value contracts and not "at all costs because win now blabla) isnt about seeing them as missing pieces or as pieces to contend. Its about not making the team worse in Lukas 4th year and (specially) creating trade value. Because via trade is the only way to really improve the team or get a borderline allstar etc.

Because the FA this summer is dead and thats just our bad luck. Just look at this crap: https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/

Kawhi isnt leaving
Jazz arent letting Conley walk
DeRozan doesnt really fit the Mavs offense
Oladipo stays in Miami
Holmes allready told he would love to stay in Sac and Bagley and his dad want out anyway
Lakers need to pay Schröder, they cant afford to lose him at all. And i know Schröder as a fellow german. He is the anti Dirk, he isnt leaving LA to go to Dallas
Fournier is basically THJ in a glass body
Oubre is terrible
Portland arent letting Powell walk, they are going to overpay him

So there is that. Honestly i think the best shot for the Mavs is signing THJ and Josh to nice value contracts. And then trying to pick up pieces with huge upside like Frank or (healty) Otto Porter...

And then Luka needs to do the thing Dirk never wanted to do. Tamper, make other guys wanting to play in Dallas etc. And then you throw Josh or THJ in the trade etc

The fact that we are ok with THJ and Richardson returning to this team is quite concerning IMO.

I mean at what point do you want this team to start be a serious threat?

If those two guys are both back next year and playing key roles you can book it the Mavs will be headed to another 1st round exit after going through another inconsistent regular season.

BTW to say DeRozan wouldn't fit on this team is just saying you prefer system players over talent and that's exactly half the problem right now

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

THJ isn't taking a pay cut AND missing an opportunity to start somewhere else just to come off the bench here for less money. He is not available for a value deal.
.

Did you see which teams are having significant cap? Heat wont have a interest or need (or cap after bringing back Dipo), Spurs also not with all their young good guys being guards/wings and then its just us or rebuilding teams.

So yeah THJ could go hunting the biggest pay check. And go back wasting his prime on shitty teams after wasting his first 7 years on shitty teams too.

Thats why i think we have solid chances to sign him on a good deal. Same with josh

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Did you see which teams are having significant cap? Heat wont have a interest or need (or cap after bringing back Dipo), Spurs also not with all their young good guys being guards/wings and then its just us or rebuilding teams.

So yeah THJ could go hunting the biggest pay check. And go back wasting his prime on shitty teams after wasting his first 7 years on shitty teams too.

Thats why i think we have solid chances to sign him on a good deal. Same with josh

People don't want to hear this but:

1) THJ/J-rich on a good deal are actually a positive vs. the pie-in-the-sky plan of dumping everyone to try to get a max slot. We complain about plan DUST, but we also seem to want to drop every decent player we have to repeat the DUST experiment.

2) I think both guys are likely to be available for cheap. I think there's at least a 30-40% chance JRich takes his PO. If he opts out, I could see both being available for relatively cheap.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Did you see which teams are having significant cap? Heat wont have a interest or need (or cap after bringing back Dipo), Spurs also not with all their young good guys being guards/wings and then its just us or rebuilding teams.

So yeah THJ could go hunting the biggest pay check. And go back wasting his prime on shitty teams after wasting his first 7 years on shitty teams too.

Thats why i think we have solid chances to sign him on a good deal. Same with josh

I see what teams have cap room, as well as a lot of other teams who can clear space.

I guess it also depends on what you consider 'Value' contract. If you think THJ will resign for 12-15M for 2 years then sure try that.


You think Luka is happy with not knowing who the F is going to show up and help him any given night? Being worried about not making the team worse in Lukas 4th year is like having a lead and playing to not lose, instead of playing to win. It's also a non-issue if he signs an extension this off season.

The logic of hoping your generational talent will stick around after you do piddly squat and keep the same inconsistent guys on the roster does not compute with me.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Been saying for a while that I'm fine with THJ being back at the right price. Can easily flip him for an asset down the road as well.

I can't get behind JRich. I really really hope he opts out. I really can't recall being more disappointed in recent memory with how someone played here vs what I expected. I'd rather a number of guys instead of him. Depending on who they were I'd even start Josh Green for his defense on better guards despite his lack of experience and bring an offensive wing off the bench. Or a Vet like Danny Green and Josh Green off the bench. I could probably list 10+ guys who are not top tier by any means I'd rather have over JRich.

[Some Guy]

With the right contract, THJ has value, and it is hard to make trades if you just let players with value leave because they aren't perfect. Letting him walk so they can sign someone better, or because he would cost too much, is reasonable. But saying you want him gone no matter what does not make sense.
He's a good player for what he is. The problem is that we expect too much, and the Mavs rely on him too much (and currently pay too much), for what he is.


I'm disappointed by JRich also, but this is the worst he has ever looked, which gives me hope that he could turn it around after a proper offseason/pre-season. Has he really gotten worse as a player, or is something else wrong (fit, coaching, lack of comfort)?
The last few games have shown me that playing Josh Green instead of Josh Richardson does not help them win this season - Richardson is better today, but Green has the potential to be much better in time. I would be okay with moving on to Green, but I can see why a team fighting for the playoffs would not.

[washedklean77]

So I never thought that I'd root for the Nets in 2021, but I love them tonight. Please beat Portland!

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by washedklean77

So I never thought that I'd root for the Nets in 2021, but I love them tonight. Please beat Portland!

Brooklyn resting six guys

Bleh

[EricaLubarsky]

Bobby Karalla
@bobbykaralla
·
13h
Since Feb. 5 they're fifth in the league (.667). Only Phoenix, Denver, Brooklyn, and Utah have a higher win percentage in that time

[MFFL]

The Mavs can seed anywhere from 5 to 9 (9th would happen if we are in the play-in and lose both games)

[sefant77]

Good for us: Lakers and Blazers still play each other. Blazers schedule is also just brutal if they dont catch several rest breaks like against the Nets.

But i really want the series against the Nuggets, this would be so much fun between Luka and Joker. Really dont want another series against the Clippers douche entourage. Let them douche it out against the Lakers, that would be fun too.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Good for us: Lakers and Blazers still play each other. Blazers schedule is also just brutal if they dont catch several rest breaks like against the Nets.

But i really want the series against the Nuggets, this would be so much fun between Luka and Joker. Really dont want another series against the Clippers douche entourage. Let them douche it out against the Lakers, that would be fun too.

That is best case scenario that I can see, gives us a decent chance to compete in a series and gives fans 2 high entertainment value series.

[Dallas41]

Here comes the Mavs kryptonite tomorrow the Kings

Can't really understand why they have struggled vs this team especially on offense since the Kings are one the worst defensive teams in the league

[EricaLubarsky]

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I see what teams have cap room, as well as a lot of other teams who can clear space.

I guess it also depends on what you consider 'Value' contract. If you think THJ will resign for 12-15M for 2 years then sure try that.


You think Luka is happy with not knowing who the F is going to show up and help him any given night? Being worried about not making the team worse in Lukas 4th year is like having a lead and playing to not lose, instead of playing to win. It's also a non-issue if he signs an extension this off season.

The logic of hoping your generational talent will stick around after you do piddly squat and keep the same inconsistent guys on the roster does not compute with me.

Being ok with THJ and Rich returning guarantees Luka could look elsewhere. I would seriously try to get DeRozan although he’s hinted about going back East.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Being ok with THJ and Rich returning guarantees Luka could look elsewhere. I would seriously try to get DeRozan although he’s hinted about going back East.

Yea Derozan would be a big step forward in consistency, which is what we need in the starting lineup. He can pass really well and get you gritty buckets. His handles are excellent, he can get wherever he wants.

As of right now,
Collins is a no brainer target.

2nd tier:
Derozen
Shroder

3rd tier:
Alec Burks
Jermichael Green
Horton Tucker
Portis

[sefant77]

Collins is a trade target, not a free agency target

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Collins is a trade target, not a free agency target

Hawks WILL 100% give him the QO and will match basically any offer when he's a restricted FA-- including the max. If he gets an offer above what they want to pay, they may consider an SNT trade, though.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Collins is a trade target, not a free agency target

I think Bagley might be cheaper to get

He doesn't have Collins range but he does a few other things much better like rebound and score in the post.

IN fact a combination of Bagley and Brogdon via trades could really infuse some real talent on this roster

Luka
Brogdon
DFS
Bagley
KP

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

I think Bagley might be cheaper to get

He doesn't have Collins range but he does a few other things much better like rebound and score in the post.

Count me out. We want to pair a glass KP with a glass Bagley? I'm already frustrated with KP I don't want another injury prone guy that I need to rely on.

He has talent but he also just played against maybe the weakest defensive frontcourt he's going to see.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Count me out. We want to pair a glass KP with a glass Bagley? I'm already frustrated with KP I don't want another injury prone guy that I need to rely on.

He has talent but he also just played against maybe the weakest defensive frontcourt he's going to see.

He's actually scored well all year

Yes he does bring some injury concerns but not at the same level as KP.

You can compare him to Towns somewhat because they both miss games a lot but not do to serious injury.