The New Weakness

[Hitman]

Yeah, it used to be defense.

The Mavericks can't play defense, and a team that can't play defense can't win when it matters.

We all knew it was true, in our hearts.

Still...when it was all clicking...when Dirk was on fire, when Stevie was blowing by people, when Fin was looking like Michael Jordan.

We ignored our beliefs. We refused to believe. "This team is different" we would say to ourselves. This team can outscore ANYONE.

Now, we can play D. But now, our new achilles heel is...

P-A-S-S-I-N-G.

Face it people. We suck at it.

Get the ball to Stack...he goes one one one.

Get the ball to Fin...he goes one on one.

Get the ball to Jet...he goes one on one.

Get the ball to Quis....he goes one one one.

Get the ball to JHo...he goes one on one.

Get the ball to Devin...he goes one on one.

Get the ball to Dirk....he usually goes one on one.

Sometimes he passes it, but usually, you get the feeling that he would have been better off

going one on one.

The Maverick offense has very few extra passes, very few back door cuts, very few people looking to set others up.

It consists of people getting cleared out and

going one on one.

I think the new season has started very well, but I worry about this offense. The Spurs, the Pistons, ALL the great teams that win championships in the leauge ALL have offenses that are looking out for the greaters good, and guys are ALWAYS looking for

"who has the better shot."

I NEVER get that sense with the 2004/2005 Mavs.

And I think that could be a problem.

I wonder if Nellie and the crew does?

[Bookit]

It was only one game. The passing was fine in the other games we won. Credit the Suns defense and a tired Mavs team.

[Hitman]

No.

The Mavs won 7 of the other 8 games, but the passing was not fine.

The passing on this team has been horrendous.

[grndmstr_c]

The Mavs have had games (like last night) where the passing has been non-existant. They've also had games (against Sac and Miami, for example), where the ball movement has been very team-oriented and effective, even if they don't have a ball-dominator who's primary role is to set other guys up, ala Nash. It's just too early to proclaim either of these performance extremes as a primary personality defect or strength of the team. I do think it's fair to say that when the Mavs don't make an effort to pass the ball the offense suffers, but saying they suck at passing is another thing entirely.

At any rate, if you're looking for an area the Mavs have consistently struggled in, it's not passing. It's defensive rebounding.

[Max Power]

I think I'll give our point guards a few more games before I become alarmed. It might even be mid-season before it "clicks".

Don't forget that a significant percentage of the roster was injured during training camp.

[gogojojo73]

We are not a great passing team right now, and I feel in a 7 game series it could hurt us.

The good thing is we have many games to sort it out.

Postives:
Dirk's assists are up.
Devin is coming along and should look good come playoff time.


Negatives
Daniels needs to start playing smarter instead of always trying to create his shot.
Everyone needs to move better without the ball.
Need more cutters in the paint.

I want to see better flow on both sides of the ball.

[Fidel]

You are right Hitman, our passing game was pretty weak most of the times (at least in the games I was able to see). But, most players in the NBA can make a pass. Passing out of double teams or a PG who really sets people up are different storys. But most players in the NBA can make a normal pass to let the ball rotate. IMO being a good passing team is more about the coach and the kind of offense he runs. So most of the blame for us being a one on team goes to Nellie IMO. It´s not easy for a coach obviously. When he has so many one on one weapons like Nellie has with the Mavs he wants to use that. But IMO he should emphatize the team game a bit more. We don´t kneed to be like the Kings in recent years, just a little less one on one ball and we´d be fine.

[V2M]

I agree with Hitman. Although it's a bit too early in the season, the trends are fairly obvious. Our Assists/Points ratio is probably one of the lowest in the league. We're the 2nd highest scoring team but we do most of our scoring playing One-on-One ball.

I'd say, since Damp, JHo & Hendu can't create their own shot... we need a good passer who could get these three some easy buckets. Finley should just play catch & shoot from the perimeter. Dirk & Stack are the only players who can and probably should play one-on-one. Quis, Terry & Harris should look to pass first, second and third before attempting to score.

[bloodyhell]

>Bookit wrote:
>It was only one game. The passing was fine in the other games we won.

Pay no attention to bookit, he thinks that our passing was fine. *laughs*
Maybe it's because he wants to deflect criticism from his favorite player daniels, who was a bricking factory the other night?
The point is, our passing IS horrendous and it's especially horrendous when it goes to dirk. He's barely had any decent looks this year. I've been saying this since the season started. Great thread btw.

[Drbio]

Nellie: We can't pass.....The sky is falling ......The sky is falling!!!!!!!!

Cuban: You drunken dumbass...the sky can't fall.....

Nellie: The ground is rising....the ground is rising......and my knee hurts.

[jayC]

Chemistry is a big problem for this club. They have only played nine games together and some ups and downs should be expected.

As for guys that could create more Devin, Terry and Stack should create more for Finley, Dirk and even at times howard. I think sike you underrate howard's slashing ability.

Besides passing Dirk needs to work on the jump hook. It is an impossible shot to guard for a man his size. I would like to see more post-ups for our guards, especially for Stackhouse, Finley and Quis.

[basketball jonessss]

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
The Mavs have had games (like last night) where the passing has been non-existant. They've also had games (against Sac and Miami, for example), where the ball movement has been very team-oriented and effective, even if they don't have a ball-dominator who's primary role is to set other guys up, ala Nash. It's just too early to proclaim either of these performance extremes as a primary personality defect or strength of the team. I do think it's fair to say that when the Mavs don't make an effort to pass the ball the offense suffers, but saying they suck at passing is another thing entirely.

At any rate, if you're looking for an area the Mavs have consistently struggled in, it's not passing. It's defensive rebounding.

Agreed, we are getting beaten on the boards.

[LordOfTheMavs]

Passing will come as devin learns the NBA. Passing will come as the team learns to play together. The biggest problem is that they are pretty damn good w/o running real offensive sets. Between Dirk and Stack and the inside out game with Damp, they haven't needed to run good offensive sets. They really been getting by on having more talent than other teams.

As the season goes on and teams across the league improve as defensive units, the Mavs will go through some midseason growing pains. Those pains will be the Mavs getting better at playing team ball on the offensive end.

More passing and assists will come, but it could be painfull to get there.

[Azn_Baller101]

why is it that after reading through this thread i feel as though kidd will be wearing a mavs jersey come february?? anyway, agreed, out turnovers are crazy and usually occur at times when most other teams won't. and really on offense most you'll ever see would be about 3 passes and someone shoots, heck we'd be lucky to see 3. no one's setting anyone up, or finding the open man or anything of that sort. the suns game showed us what we lost when we lost nash. and now the possibility of kidd coming back looks bigger and bigger. if they're gonna trade someone though let it be terry, not stack...

[Bookit]

Originally posted by: bloodyhell
>Bookit wrote:
>It was only one game. The passing was fine in the other games we won.

Pay no attention to bookit, he thinks that our passing was fine. *laughs*
Maybe it's because he wants to deflect criticism from his favorite player daniels, who was a bricking factory the other night?
The point is, our passing IS horrendous and it's especially horrendous when it goes to dirk. He's barely had any decent looks this year. I've been saying this since the season started. Great thread btw.

Such a personal attack from a newbie? We all have opinions here asswipe.

[Drbio]

Yeah....we've all been really impressed with his first 15 posts. [img]i/expressions/anim_roller.gif[/img]

[grndmstr_c]

Yeah....we've all been really impressed with his first 15 posts.

Oh, tallelf...er, I mean, bloodyhell's not quite so new as the post count would suggest, I think.

[jibikao]

Hey guys, this is my first time here. I am glad I finally found a Mavs board that has more quality posts than troll messages.

Anyway, I too agree Mavs is very bad at passing. In fact, even when Nash was still here the passing was bad when 1.) Nash is tired (usually in the 4th quarter) 2.) Nash gets harased by players like Bowen, Doug Christie. etc 3.) Nash sat down

Really, when I watch Mavs VS Kings, I always wonder why Mavs don't do those back door cuts? There are many one-on-one and when their shots don't go in, the offense flow is just terrible.

This is probably why Don Nelson said that in order for Dirk to be a MVP, he has to be good at passing since he attracts the most attention.

What about Harris? Don said he is very close to Nash. Maybe Harris will be like Nash in 1 or 2 years. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] At least that's a good news.

Jimmy

[dalmations202]

Back on topic.

The New Weakness.
I am not sure that the weakness (passing) is not designed by the offense.

I haven't seen alot of cutters this year. It is usually throw it low, or to Dirk, and either pick and roll, or clear out. No one should see the Kings or Pistons constant motion passing offense by Dallas' offense. Dallas hasn't been utilizing it. I know they have it in the "book", but most of what I have seen this year is "get the mismatch", post and shoot; or utilize Dirk in the pick-n-roll. Sometimes they go low to Damp, but usually only if he has his defender on his hip. None of these offenses is designed around cutting and passing. In fact, they are designed to minimize the use of the pass, and against quick teams that get lots of steals.

I also have to admit that from what I have seen, Dallas is at best in skillset, an average passing team.
Average rebounding team. Slightly better than average defensive team. Better than average offensive team. Better than average at steals and blocks. Below average dribbling. Slightly below average post-up (but enough to keep teams honest). About average overall shooters -- with Dirk, Fin, and Terry being above, but Benga, Hendu, Booth below, and Stack, Harris, Daniels, Bradley and Howard average.

I am not sure that getting Fin's outside shooting back, won't fix the passing issues (since they don't really run an offense that utilizes passing as its strength). They are just missing parts right now.

[jibikao]

I just think a good team should have tons of playing style. Like Spurs. They can play slow (most of the time) or play fast with Parker and Ginobili leading the team.

Overall, I just think Mavs should have at least two very distinctive playing styles. Right now, they all depend on jump shooting most of the time. There are not enough passes/cutters and they definitely don't have an impressive inside game.

Go Mavs, you can do it!!

Jimmy

[orangedays]

Originally posted by: Bookit

Such a personal attack from a newbie? We all have opinions here asswipe.

hahahaahahahahhahahahhaa....awesome

[FilthyFinMavs]

Passing comes with time especially when I starting point guard for the last couple of years is no longer here. I give them mid season to get things together. If they still haven't by then i'm not sure if they will this season.

[Hitman]

Last night was a glaring example of two teams...

One team looks for the open man and the extra pass.

One team does not.

[SeriousSummer]

True, there was no passing (for all practical purposes), but I think that's a sympton, not a cause of the Mavericks offensive problems.

The real problem is nobody besides Dirk can shoot the ball reliably from 18 feet and out.

If you watched what happened when Dirk got the ball, usually about 18-20 feet from the basket, San Antonio doubled him and dropped the other three players very deep.

When Dirk gave the ball up, for the most part, Howard or Harris or Daniels or Stackhouse or whomever missed an open jump shot. There was no room to force the ball inside against the defense (in fairness though, most of Dirk's five turnovers didn't happen that way--one was a bogus offensive foul, one a bogus travel, and on one he lost the long lead pass out of bounds).

You can't very successfully drive the ball on five guys packed into the paint, even Dirk isn't going to have a great deal of success trying to shoot over a double team. The best passing (which the Mavs don't have) isn't very effective if there isn't any room.

Someone has to spread the court. Finley will help when he gets back, and Terry helps some, but I'm beginning to wonder if Dallas hasn't gone from too many players that can shoot but can't play defense to too many guys that can play defense but can't shoot.

[Usually Lurkin]

the new weakness is that we've got two sophmores and a rookie getting starter's time on the team.
When Fin comes back some of our shooting woes will be taken care of (a week?)
When Howard and Daniels develop enough patience to consistently look for the extra pass and develop a more consistent outside shot, some more woes will be cured (half a year and two years?)
When Daniels settles down, learns the system he's playing in, and grows up enough to realize that he deserves to be a top-level starter in the NBA, the rest of our woes will be cured (5 years?)

[sike]

When Daniels settles down, learns the system he's playing in, and grows up enough to realize that he deserves to be a top-level starter in the NBA, the rest of our woes will be cured (5 years?)

does it take 5 years to mature in this league? Tell that to Labron.

Also, I'm not sure that at this point Daniels "deserves" anything...he has yet to consistantly prove himself.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally posted by: sike

does it take 5 years to mature in this league? Tell that to Labron.[/quote]
Depends on the player's ability and confidence. Lebron is better than Devin Harris.

Also, I'm not sure that at this point Daniels "deserves" anything...he has yet to consistantly prove himself.

my point was that he's our starter, but he's playing very timidly (like a rookie carrying a lot of expectations), and does not yet have the skills necessary to be the player the mavs need. A point guard might typically take, what 3 years to hit their stride? Five years is stretching it, but is the most time it might take for him to get there.

[sike]

does not yet have the skills necessary to be the player the mavs need.

I might disagree with this a bit....I think he does have the skills...simply not the maturity/expierence.

Lebron is better than Devin Harris.

no argument here [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] ...though "better" does not always = maturity. Look how long it took J. O'Neal to bloom as compared to KG or Kobe. Different players develop on different learning curves.

[NewMexiMav]

What has frustrated me lately is that the Mavs have shown the ability to make the extra pass this season (i.e., the Sac and Miami games), they just aren't doing it now. I know the Spurs defense had alot to do with that on Tuesday night, but everybody has to get into the habit of making the extra pass. Devin can't carry the load yet, so everybody has to chip in with the passing right now. I wish JET would step up and become more of a playmaker.

[MeMavsFan]

Passing is not as much of a problem to me as outside shooting. Fin will help that when he gets back. There's no extra pass rigth now because there's no "extra pass" to make. Dirk gets doubled and the rest of the defense zones up and sinks into the lane. IF someone could hit an open jumper the defense would have to come out and then rotate leaving someone open for the extrap pass. Right now, the defense never gets out of position because they don't have to step up and challenge shooters.