question on MBenga's contract? - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Blonde Bomber · 10-22-2004, 03:25 PM

did he sign a 1 or 2 year deal?

I thought it was one but I could be wrong. I'm just really excited about this guys skills that I have a feeling that we may be in for another Marquis Daniels situation next summer, where Dallas is cornered on how much they can offer the guy.

grndmstr_c · 10-22-2004, 03:29 PM

Everything I've heard indicates it's a 2-year deal, which means we'd have early bird rights on him and could go up to the MLE (without actually using the MLE) to resign.

chumdawg · 10-22-2004, 03:29 PM

Pretty sure it's a two-year deal. He ain't goin' nowhere.

dirno2000 · 10-22-2004, 03:30 PM

It's a two year deal so we won't have Bird rights. If he plays really well, we'll probably lose him.

Drbio · 10-22-2004, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dirno2000
It's a two year deal so we won't have Bird rights. If he plays really well, we'll probably lose him.

Naw....Cubes might just open up the wallet ala Marquis. Who knows?

grndmstr_c · 10-22-2004, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Naw....Cubes might just open up the wallet ala Marquis. Who knows?

If he blows up and teams are offering him well above the MLE we won't be able to match no matter how bad Cuban wants to open up the wallet.

EricaLubarsky · 10-22-2004, 04:05 PM

we need to win a championship in the next two years. I'm sure he would like a ring

although we definitely have the relationship with him. Maybe Belgium and the Congo value allegiance too, and he will re-sign with the team that made him into a star or at least a valuable role player.

Male30Dan · 10-22-2004, 04:07 PM

Allegiance does not translate well when millions of dollars are involved...

Regarding the question at hand, I have an email in to Mark... If he responds I will post his answer.

LordOfTheMavs · 10-22-2004, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
we need to win a championship in the next two years. I'm sure he would like a ring

although we definitely have the relationship with him. Maybe Belgium and the Congo value allegiance too, and he will re-sign with the team that made him into a star or at least a valuable role player.

Uhm. Yeah. And I bet Nash gives all his money back to the Suns so he can come back to Dallas and play his bestest buddy Dirk. I bet Belgium and Congo value the same thing we do. Money.

EricaLubarsky · 10-22-2004, 04:14 PM

I remind you that there are some players that have turned down money. We were up in arms when Nash left because it was not a given that a player would accept the money.

dirno2000 · 10-22-2004, 04:48 PM

It's not just money...if Damp is playing up to his contract, another team will be able to offer him more money and playing time.

sike · 10-22-2004, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dirno2000
It's not just money...if Damp is playing up to his contract, another team will be able to offer him more money and playing time.

a good point from a very substandard poster.

Dirkenstien · 10-22-2004, 05:28 PM

Is there any way to possibly extend his contract at the end of the year if he shows solid improvement? Surely there must be a way we can offer him more than the MLE if it comes to that.

The Miles · 10-22-2004, 05:40 PM

Dallas signed DJ to a two year contract for the full Lower Level Exception (LLE). Bottom line, we will lose him in two years. He is 7 foot tall, he will get paid by some bottom dweller witn tons of cap (Atlanta) in two years and all we will be able to offer the 2006 version of the very popular 6 year $37,000,000 full MLE contract that was thrown around this summer.

It is sad, you almost hope he can wait two years before he busts out, but that is going to be hard. Unlike Daniels he is 7 feet tall. He will also only be 25 in two years. Okur got 6 years $50,000,000 this summer, I would expect Benga gets the same (relative to time) in 2006.

For any Mavs salary information, go to Hoopshype.com, they have a detailed outlay.

Blonde Bomber · 10-22-2004, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: The Miles
Dallas signed DJ to a two year contract for the full Lower Level Exception (LLE). Bottom line, we will lose him in two years. He is 7 foot tall, he will get paid by some bottom dweller witn tons of cap (Atlanta) in two years and all we will be able to offer the 2006 version of the very popular 6 year $37,000,000 full MLE contract that was thrown around this summer.

It is sad, you almost hope he can wait two years before he busts out, but that is going to be hard. Unlike Daniels he is 7 feet tall. He will also only be 25 in two years. Okur got 6 years $50,000,000 this summer, I would expect Benga gets the same (relative to time) in 2006.

For any Mavs salary information, go to Hoopshype.com, they have a detailed outlay.

boy, that's a downer...you give the kid two years two develop into a solid pro and then we lose him and some other team and they reap the benifits of this athletic beast. That part of the CBA <u>NEEDS</u> to be changed.

Dirkenstien · 10-22-2004, 08:33 PM

We'll see what happens in two years. Worst comes to worse DJ leaves when Pavel should be coming into his own [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Phil Helmuth · 10-22-2004, 08:52 PM

hopefully he will realize that we gave him a chance and will show some loaylty for a little less pay, unlike stevie and boozer.

JD45 · 10-22-2004, 10:23 PM

The problem with Mbenga's contract is the Mavs had to use the LLE to sign him, and that is a two year max.

Last year the Mavs used part of the MLE on Stephanson, so they were able to structure a longer term, although not guaranteed deal. This year, they had to use the MLE on Daniels, so did not have it for MBenga.

If he keeps developing, he is going to easily get more than the MLE after two years. The Mavs will have a difficult time keeping him.

The Miles · 10-22-2004, 11:22 PM

Yup. It sucks that we have Pavel locked up long term but Benga is going to end up on another team out of all of this.

Major hole in the CBA if you ask me.

EricaLubarsky · 10-23-2004, 12:31 AM

Quote:

the CBA NEEDS to be changed.

a couple of players have hinted at a lockout after this season.

Maybe the chenges could be made then.

Fidel · 10-23-2004, 12:49 AM

IMO it´s way to early to speculate what might happen to MBenga in two years. He did look good in preseason so far but alot of the overly positive reviews he got come from the fact that expectations were much lower. Let´s see how he developes before making any conclusions.

EricaLubarsky · 10-23-2004, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Fidel
IMO it´s way to early to speculate what might happen to MBenga in two years. He did look good in preseason so far but alot of the overly positive reviews he got come from the fact that expectations were much lower. Let´s see how he developes before making any conclusions.

d@mn fine analysis

V · 10-23-2004, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky

Quote:

Originally posted by: Fidel
IMO it´s way to early to speculate what might happen to MBenga in two years. He did look good in preseason so far but alot of the overly positive reviews he got come from the fact that expectations were much lower. Let´s see how he developes before making any conclusions.

d@mn fine analysis

Please see here

Fidel · 10-23-2004, 02:02 AM

Doesn´t contradict what I said. He did look good in preseason. But to me preseason is somewhere between summerleague and regular season in level of play. Teams do use their actual rosters but usually everyone gets to play. There are even guys like Sasser who are signed just to fill out the preseason and camp roster. Look at the boxscore for the Knicks game. Sasser a 31 year old who played for Bamberg in the german bundesliga last year had 6 pts, 2 rb, 1 blk, 1 stl in 11 minutes. He shot 2-4. Benga had 8 points, 5 boards, 1 blk, 1 stl in 24 mins. He shot 4-7. Derek Hood had 8 points, 5 boards and 1 ast in 23 mins. He shot 4-5.

Do you think anyone would expect Hood or Sasser to command a huge ass contract in two years because of those numbers? Obviously MBenga has more potential, but like I said I think it´s way too early to make any calls on him. If players like Sasser or Hood can put up the numbers they did in a preseason game it tells you alot IMO. Let´s see if Mbenga still averages those kind of numbers 20 games into the regular season. I´d be happy if he does, but let´s not go overboard just yet.

dirno2000 · 10-23-2004, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Fidel
IMO it´s way to early to speculate what might happen to MBenga in two years. He did look good in preseason so far but alot of the overly positive reviews he got come from the fact that expectations were much lower. Let´s see how he developes before making any conclusions.

It is all speculation at this point, but a 7-footer who runs like a gazelle and has biceps like Kevin Willis doesn't need to set the league on fire for somebody to overpay him.

The Miles · 10-23-2004, 02:16 AM

Exactly. 7 footers get overpaid. A guy like Mbenga who is a great athlete, hard worker, nice guy, coachable, etc...will demand high dollar. History proves it. Look at the centers in the past, just to name a few.

Jim McIlvane
Isaac Austin
Mark Blount
Mehmet Okur

Those are the first four that jumped out of my head in terms of being relatively unproven yet highly paid. The good news is that we can keep Mbenga if he is viewed like Blount was. The problem is that Benga is only 23 years old, so he has that potential tag that Okur has that raises his value even higher.

But we have him for two years for sure. I am ready to enjoy those times now and worry later.

EricaLubarsky · 10-23-2004, 02:17 AM

this year was pretty rediculous. I don't remember a season where teams have been this desperate. After this season the negotiations will start and many teams under the cap will be in different situations. All things point to a lowered cap, and a couple of teams have already blown their extra money.

I don't expect the summer of 2006-2007 to be as bad as this year. We certainly have a different opinion of the offseason from this craziness.

It's easy to take this past offseason and to predict what 2006 will be like, but we just can't. The same thing can be said about M'Benga's career. Any number of things could happen. He may not be as good in the regular season, he might get injured, he may stay with the Mavs even though he's offered more, the offseason might be bad in 2006-2007....any number of things.

V · 10-23-2004, 02:17 AM

Excellent point Fidel ... but I hope I'm not assuming too much to suggest maybe you haven't seen The Benga play?

Hood & Sasser are good players, but they're not NBA caliber... and you can tell when you watch them. Benga on the other hand does some things that very few NBA players can do at all. Sure, Benga is raw ... and even in practice last week he looked lost at times ... but I'm not kidding when I say he may be the most physically gifted player on the Mavs roster. Benga is just learning the NBA game ... and English for that matter ... so his stats don't reflect his impact on the game.

You might be right ... I may be going overboard ... but you can go back to my first posts after the summer league game v. the Clips to see that I've at least been consistent. The kid is amazing. The biggest issue I had with him is foul trouble ... but if you look at his foul per block stats in summer league you see a nice trend. In the end, he actually had numbers that put him in some very elite company with all-time shot blockers.

Benga is a force that you have to see to believe.

EricaLubarsky · 10-23-2004, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Benga is a force that you have to see to believe.

summer league can make poor players look good. I can't provide an example but there have been plenty of examples discussed here. A poster here was talking about how he saw a guy drop 45-5-10 in a summer league game, and when the season came, the player wasn't even NBA caliber. Pre-season can be very deceptive.

Of course there are players that blow summer league away and become good in the NBA as well. It's bittersweet, but I am very excited to see if M'Benga can be a good or great player in this league. We may lose him, but he will be one of the best subplots of this season.

The Miles · 10-23-2004, 02:26 AM

Can he become the next great African center? Or is that too premature? Olajuwon... Mutombo...Mbenga?

Way too early, but it is fun to talk about.

EricaLubarsky · 10-23-2004, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: The Miles
Can he become the next great African center? Or is that too premature? Olajuwon... Mutombo...Mbenga?

Way too early, but it is fun to talk about.

I would be very surprised if he came in and put up
21ppg, 12rpg, 2.68bpg, 1.4apg, 1.2spg in 35.5mpg his rookie year (Olajuwon)
or
17ppg, 12rpg, 2.96bpg, 2.2apg in 38mpg (Mutombo)

I'd say that that is not only premature, but it is immature.

5.7ppg, 4.3rpg, 1apg, 1bpg in 17.7mpg in three games of pre-season play. Even per minute, he's falling far short.

He's shooting 58%, but again, its preseason and he's only taken 14 shots.

The Miles · 10-23-2004, 02:41 AM

Not this year Erica, over time. You have to assume a three year period due to the fact that both Hakeem and Mutombo went to college first. Hell, Mutombo was like 26 as a rookie.

Since Benga is going to Mavs University, time will tell.

V · 10-23-2004, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky

Quote:

Benga is a force that you have to see to believe.

summer league can make poor players look good. I can't provide an example but there have been plenty of examples discussed here. A poster here was talking about how he saw a guy drop 45-5-10 in a summer league game, and when the season came, the player wasn't even NBA caliber. Pre-season can be very deceptive.

Of course there are players that blow summer league away and become good in the NBA as well. It's bittersweet, but I am very excited to see if M'Benga can be a good or great player in this league. We may lose him, but he will be one of the best subplots of this season.

You're absolutely correct. Summer league can make poor players look good ... but the opposite in not true. I know it sounds obvious but it's been documented statistically & it's compelling. Great performace means almost nothing but poor performance usually means the player will never do well in the NBA. Now, by all accounts Benga had a great summer league. In fact he stood out. But all that really means is he still has a shot at becoming a good NBA player.

That said, there are some things to look for in the summer stats that are clear indicators of future NBA performace. Strangly, one of the best for defense is blocks per foul. If you're better than average your likely a better than average defender. Kirilenko may be the best recent case study. In summer league he averaged an ASTOUNDING 1.4 blocks per foul. Every scout in the league knew Kirilenko would be a defensive force in the League some day... and it didn't take very long.

M'Benga is overly agressive at this stage of his development and shot blocking is generally considered the most difficult basketball skill for a young player to learn. Benga needs to learn when to attack the shooter ... and when to concede. That said, he averaged .7 blocks per foul in the RMR ... and that ain't bad. Especially when you consider that Benga is just learning the NBA game. Fouls are called differently in Europe.

Before you react to the remainder of the post understand I'm not suggesting that Benga is going to be one of the best shot blockers of all-time ... but for comprision consider the following:

Mutumbo ranks number three all time in blocks per game. He averaged .77 blocks per foul in his rookie season.

Olojuwan (number four all-time) averaged .63 blocks per foul in his rookie season.

Ratliff (number eight all-time) took three full years to establish himself as a non foul-machine. Leading up to that turning point - in year three of his career - Theo played 24 minutes per game, and was considered an impact player on defense while only registering .65 blocks per foul. Ratliff averages .9 blocks per foul for his career while last year he ranked #1 in the NBA in Blocks Per Game(3.61); ranked #1 in the NBA in total blocks(307.0); and ranked #1 in the NBA in Blocks Per 48 Minutes(5.53)

Of course you know that Benga lead the RMR in blocks, blocks per game, and blocks per 48 minutes. He also had more total blocks than 4 of the other 10 teams in the summer league.

The Miles · 10-23-2004, 03:05 AM

He really reminds me a lot of a Dalembert type but I only saw him once on NBA TV.

Can't wait till Sunday.

dirno2000 · 10-23-2004, 03:06 AM

As it stands, the hole in Mbenga's game is rebounding. Even with the inexperience, you'd think he would be a better rebounder based on his physical attributes. Could be that he's chasing too many shots.

V · 10-23-2004, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: The Miles
He really reminds me a lot of a Dalembert type but I only saw him once on NBA TV.

Can't wait till Sunday.

Not a bad comparison ... but Benga is bigger, faster, and much stronger than Dalembert.

Sam is clearly the better basketball player ... but he does not come close to having Benga's physical gifts.

Here is a pic of Dalembert in July of this year

Now here is a pic of Benga

The Miles · 10-23-2004, 03:16 AM

Nice

I guess Benga is one of a kind. He is a lot more jacked up than Dalembert, kinda scary huh.

*trying not to get overly excited about the Mavericks center rotation*

FineCubanCigar · 10-23-2004, 04:12 AM

can his contract be extended at the end of the year?

Chiwas · 10-23-2004, 10:29 AM

Quote:

*trying not to get overly excited about the Mavericks center rotation*

With the front court getting seemingly better and the back court not so within the Mavs system, it's not easy to resist the temptation.

V2M · 10-23-2004, 01:08 PM

To me, DJ's just a taller Ben Wallace with a better touch on his shot. Sure he needs to learn the NBA game but anyone who's seen him can and will appreciate that this dude's one-of-a-kind!

Hopefully, Mark & Donnie can find a way to keep him for a long, long time.