Any Star Trek fans? - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

D-Ball · 08-31-2006, 02:47 AM

I hate Trekkies and Trekkers. I cannot stand the bastardized version of a television show that is so concerned with the setting. Costumes and aliens are for Star Wars and other such science fiction - which I do enjoy on occasion. This was about a philosophy of life and the human race growing out its infancy; what we could be versus what we are. It was literate, not just in terms of science, but also in the characters and situations that faced the members of this ship. It took the next logical step from the romanticism of the sea in literature. So when I ask ‘are you a Star Trek fan?’ I am not asking if you have attended conventions or what your favorite alien species is. I am asking, instead, did the show appeal to you on an emotional and intellectual level?

It did to me. I like Wrath of Khan; my favorite in the genre. It, at times, is over-acted, but I still felt a slowly visceral darkness that haunts the movie to the end. It is right on the target emotionally with where the film should be. Ricardo Maltoban (sp?) is a classic villain out for revenge. For the first time in the history of his character, we see Kirk question himself. His actions—Khan, Carole Marcus—have finally forced him to face the consequences. He has no purpose. And in the end, only in finding his son and losing his best friend does he find that purpose. Structurally, the stories are all relevant to the themes—the passage of time, the consequences of actions, needing and finding purpose, the many vs. the few, old vs. new, life and death as one force—nothing feels like a plot device to inject an emotion or to placate the fans of the show.

My least favorite of the genre? Anything made after 1996 -- First Contact, Insurrection, Nemesis, Star Trek: Voyager, the last seasons of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, and Star Trek: Enterprise (I watched it very little).

Nemesis is probably the best of those products, but it still feigns old story arcs (Data dying, B-4, marrying Troi and Riker with no real purpose, and Picard's growth), became clunky in its adventure (a chase scene lifted straight out of Star Wars, ramming into another ship?), and created a 2-dimensional villian in Shinzon that left me with the urge to spank him more than anything else. Every important scene in the movie was treated accordingly and the action waned otherwise. The mood is obvious, lacks the slow unwinding of something like Khan. That's not exactly high praise for being the best product in 10 years. The only way I could fully enjoy that movie is if I had never seen anything else up to that point.

Usually Lurkin · 08-31-2006, 07:10 AM

I've gotten to catch a few episodes of Enterprise, recently. It's actually pretty good, and brings back a lot of the spirit of adventure that the original series had. They get to touch on a lot of "humanity" type themes since it's set at the beginning of all the intergalactic, inter-alien exploration. It's definitely better than Voyager and DS9, which were crap. Probably better than 1/2 the Next Generation (stupid Wesley Crusher). Scott Bakula is pretty good in the series - though I do occasionally find myself hoping that Al will step through an interdimensional door sometime to give us ziggy's thoughts on warp travel and what the Vulcans really need to open up to their emotions.

Have you watched any Andromeda or Firefly? Those two "frontiers for humanity" series look to have a lot of room to touch on some of the themes you seem to like.

MavsX · 08-31-2006, 07:30 AM

star trek fan = huge virgin!

sike · 08-31-2006, 08:24 AM

only a fan of the phrase, "I canna do it Capin' I don't have tha Powerrrr!"

u2sarajevo · 08-31-2006, 09:00 AM

This thread makes me sad.

Flacolaco · 08-31-2006, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

Have you watched any Andromeda or Firefly? Those two "frontiers for humanity" series look to have a lot of room to touch on some of the themes you seem to like.

Firefly was greatness. I strongly urge people to check this out. Even if you don't like sci fi stuff, you'll like this.

D-ball....

I agree about the movies.

I agree Voyager is crap.

The last seasons of DS9 however, I liked a lot.

Nemesis · 08-31-2006, 10:07 AM

I am confused by your first 2-3 sentences. Are you comparing the movie(s) Star Trek (i.e Wrath of Kahn) to the TV series?

I am not a fan of the TV series but I loved the first 3 movies. There is a "darkside" if I may use Star Wars terminology, that flows through the first 3 films that you don't see in the remaining. Emotional? Yes, aside from the death of Spock, the scene where Kirk's son is helplessly submitted and gutted - still to this day is etched in my mind and I can still remember what it felt like to watch it as a young child.

D-Ball · 08-31-2006, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsX

star trek fan = huge virgin!

And this is the shit I was hoping to stay away from.

The people who joined the Star Trek cult because they couldn't make it in the real world ruined it for the rest of us.

Nemesis · 08-31-2006, 12:22 PM

How about reading the responses that aren't shit! That might keep the thread going.

D-Ball · 08-31-2006, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blab's Nemesis

I am confused by your first 2-3 sentences. Are you comparing the movie(s) Star Trek (i.e Wrath of Kahn) to the TV series?

No, I am comparing people who wanted to live in the Star Trek universe versus people who wanted to enjoy it as a television show, a movie, or a piece of drama. The people who want to live in the Star Trek universe have too much power over what product is churned out because they out-number or out-care than people who can just appreciate it. Claiming to be a fan does not mean that I'm sitting at my computer with my type-III phaser on my hip pocket and the Next Generation communicator on my breast. I don't even know where my type-III phaser is (

). It's been a complaint that I have been identified as one of these people all my life, people that I credit with making Star Trek successful and shallow. That is what the first two sentences are about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blab's Nemesis

I am not a fan of the TV series but I loved the first 3 movies. There is a "darkside" if I may use Star Wars terminology, that flows through the first 3 films that you don't see in the remaining. Emotional? Yes, aside from the death of Spock, the scene where Kirk's son is helplessly submitted and gutted - still to this day is etched in my mind and I can still remember what it felt like to watch it as a young child.

I don't really see a 'darkside' in the first three films -- I see a spirituality. In the first film I see hope. It deals with a question we all ask: 'Is there a God? Who am I?' It is at the heart of Star Trek that for all the knowledge and supreme power we lack, it is our humanity--parts we ignore--that can overcome challenges. The resolution to this crisis proves exactly that.

The questions are the source of drama in this movie, not some external enemy. This powerful force threatening to destroy humanity is simply seeking to understand the universe and therefore learn its place. VGER receives the answers it seeks, and in not liking its place in the universe, rejects them. Spock, in the midst of a similar crisis, learns from VGER that his place is in neither society that his blood bears--it is within himself that he can find peace.

In Khan, it is a circular reference to life and death. Maru means a safe return voyage, signaling that at our place of beginning, we will return. Listen to this bit of dialogue -- its message and structure--'How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life.' The amount of circular references to life-death are almost too many to count. I don't think that is a positive or a negative message. I don't see a battle between good and evil in that film.

As for III, I think this is one of the better movies in comparison to the other 9, but it is the first time I feel they repeated themselves in the interest of commericial success. It was a logical next step but it feels forced to me in a way that Khan was not. You can tell from the beginning to the end that not only was II successful, but Paramount was going to greenlight another movie.

How's that for a response?

D-Ball · 08-31-2006, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Firefly was greatness. I strongly urge people to check this out. Even if you don't like sci fi stuff, you'll like this.

Is that the pre-Buffy Joss Whedon series?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

D-Ball....

I agree about the movies.

I agree Voyager is crap.

The last seasons of DS9 however, I liked a lot.

What specificially appealed about the last seasons of DS9? I like the early seasons because it was a series-long quest to bring Star Trek ideals to the Bajorans. They could deal with darker aspects of humanity--abuse, revenge, betrayl, terrorism, genocide, religion (not spirituality)--and not trash Roddenberry's vision of humanity. The Bajorans and the Cardassians were in the same adolecence humanity grew out of. And the stories remained topical because of the issues of genocide (Rwanda, Bosnia) and terrorism (Isreal) that led to the United States in the 1990s to act in a similar fashion to the Federation in this show. It was different than TNG model for a show, and the last to have a unique voice.

I like the vision for the Klingons as a race of Samurai, but outside of that, it began to indulge some of the story ideas that Roddenberry rejected--genetic manipulation, Section 31, the Dominion War, etc. DS9 became a good science fiction show, not good Star Trek. You obviously have a different view.

Flacolaco · 08-31-2006, 01:59 PM

I liked how it became a narrative from the end of season 5 through the end of season 7. They had some stand alone episodes of course here and there, but it became more compelling story to tune in every week and see where this was going. It's the reason that 24 is an awesome show.

I still thought that they kept their unique voice, and there were a few episodes in season 6 in particular that dealt with some interesting moral quesitons: ( Far Beyong the Stars ), ( In the pale moonlight) are two episodes in particular that I think are among the best they've ever done.

The original Star Trek idea/spirit of the original series was lost (kind of like you were saying it was a good sci fi show, not a good Star Trek show) to a certain extent on DS9, though they tried in the beginning with the new species and the wormhole.

I always though DS9 was a better representation of real life, it seemed like a more inhabitable universe. Less fantastical in a way, but for me personally, more entertaining.

D-Ball · 08-31-2006, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

I've gotten to catch a few episodes of Enterprise, recently. It's actually pretty good, and brings back a lot of the spirit of adventure that the original series had. They get to touch on a lot of "humanity" type themes since it's set at the beginning of all the intergalactic, inter-alien exploration.

Warning: Star Trek fight ahead.

They grounded the series in bankable products--the history for the nerds and the human issues of every other drama to make it 'accessable.' They never had to reach any further into the writer's brain than 'How did the Klingons lose their ridges?' to spike ratings. Their last episode takes place on the Enterprise-D in the middle of a crisis for Will Riker. It was a bland concept and it deserved the fate it received.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

It's definitely better than Voyager and DS9, which were crap. Probably better than 1/2 the Next Generation (stupid Wesley Crusher).

I disagree. I admit I have only seen 20 episodes or so of Enterprise, but I can name 8 or 10 episodes of Next Generation that, if they went through the refinement process of a screenplay, could survive under scrutiny as a movie.

At least we agree on Voyager and seasons 5-7 of DS9.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

Scott Bakula is pretty good in the series - though I do occasionally find myself hoping that Al will step through an interdimensional door sometime to give us ziggy's thoughts on warp travel and what the Vulcans really need to open up to their emotions.

I think if I were comparing Scott Bakula to Wil Wheaton, I'd have to think long and hard about whom I'd pick. It's not type-casting that makes you think about "Quantum Leap;" he acts the EXACT SAME! That being said, I don't think Bakula was handed the best material to begin with.

Nemesis · 08-31-2006, 03:04 PM

Well, I have not seen the first 3 films since I was probably in middle school, maybe elementary, so my perception of the darkness in the films is probably spot on for me. I will check them out soon and see if I perceive them the same way as a grown-up per say. Thanks for the insight in the films. I am sure I will look at them differently just based on your perception.

Nemesis · 08-31-2006, 03:10 PM

As far as the "trekks" are concerned - fortunately, when I experience that in the Star Wars universe, I can choose to ignore the complaints and EU that so many jedi wannabes 'force' on the internet highways. Obviously, Lucas doesn't listen to the fans (except for the Jar Jar backlash) when he directs his movies. As disappointed as I was in the prequels, I am glad Lucas stuck to his way of doing things. Summary: I feel your pain.

D-Ball · 08-31-2006, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

I liked how it became a narrative from the end of season 5 through the end of season 7. They had some stand alone episodes of course here and there, but it became more compelling story to tune in every week and see where this was going. It's the reason that 24 is an awesome show.

I'm not sure I agree. I like the tightly-knitted storyline, but I think it was too drawn out for the material they had. The war was not exactly the vision of Star Trek.

D-Ball · 08-31-2006, 05:00 PM

If you like it, what are your favorites?

Usually Lurkin · 08-31-2006, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Ball

Warning: Star Trek fight ahead.

sorry, no can do. I don't know enough. If you've only seen 20 episodes or so of Enterprise, then that's about 15 more than me. THose couple looked like the series had promise. They do keep trying to put that episode with Riker onto my tv, though, and I keep turning it off.

I like Scott Bakula in the role, and really believe him as the starship captain.

Quote:

but I can name 8 or 10 episodes of Next Generation that, if they went through the refinement process of a screenplay, could survive under scrutiny as a movie.

It had a longer run, and greater resources. Regardless, there should never have been a second "Data is a toaster" or "Will's a supergenius" episode. Instead, they made enough of them to fill a couple DVDs.

I'll admit I never gave DS9 a chance. I just thought a space station was a stupid idea for stories about going where no man had ever gone. I gave it perhaps 3 episodes before giving up. Voyager was just too much like Lost in Space. If people in Star Trek can't even be in control of their own destinies, what good are they?

MavsX · 09-06-2006, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blab's Nemesis

How about reading the responses that aren't shit! That might keep the thread going.

yeah, don't mind me im just a retarded echo...

mmmfast · 09-06-2006, 12:15 PM

Trekkies

sike · 09-06-2006, 12:28 PM

firefly was pure genius.

deserving of a thread...and one might purchase it on ebay for a meager sum.

Flacolaco · 09-06-2006, 01:38 PM

Firefly was pure genius. I got the DVD set for xmas last year. I pop one in as often as I can. Serenity (the movie) was also greatness.

Anyways..... trek fans....Star Trek XI (2008)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0796366/fullcredits

matt damon (rumored) to play a (younger?) James T Kirk. thoughts? (I think that's pretty sorry)

jthig32 · 09-06-2006, 01:39 PM

I have zero interest in more movies about the original series, in any way.

Make it TNG, or let it die.

Flacolaco · 09-06-2006, 02:04 PM

I tend to agree. no more of the original series please.

Do something to move the franchise forward. Expand. Create.

Of course if I asked for that, I'd probly get some filth action film with sex and swearing, with the Star Trek name on it.

They need to decide if they are trying to:

1. make money and sell out

or

2. recycle material to their old faithful (which would be what this is)

or

3. Take it someplace new, while keeping it Trekky. A fresh idea, something to captivate minds, and to grow the franchise for the future. And do all of this without sinking to the usual hollywood ploys of "sexy" or "complete special fx garbage"

u2sarajevo · 09-06-2006, 02:49 PM

I am a Star Trek fan and I am pretty excited about this one for one reason only.... the director.

jthig32 · 09-06-2006, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u2sarajevo

I am a Star Trek fan and I am pretty excited about this one for one reason only.... the director.

Hmm. That's a good point. I guess I would have to let myself get excited about that movie if it was brought to me by the man that brought me Lost.

Flacolaco · 09-06-2006, 03:28 PM

I hope he's a real Star Trek fan

Flacolaco · 07-27-2007, 02:32 PM

There is news. Pretty good news at that.

http://film.guardian.co.uk/news/stor...136115,00.html

Quote:

One of Hollywood's best-loved and most enduring relationships is about to enter its fifth decade as it emerged that Leonard Nimoy will don the Vulcan ears yet again in Paramount Pictures' upcoming Star Trek film.
Director J J Abrams, a rising star in Tinseltown following his success with Mission: Impossible III and the TV series Lost, announced the Mr Spock casting to a euphoric crowd on the first day of the annual Comic-Con convention in San Diego yesterday.

Abrams confirmed the rumour reported here earlier in the week that Zachary Quinto, one of the stars of the hit US series Heroes, will portray the USS Enterprise's fastidiously logical first officer in his younger days.
Precise plot details remain under wraps, however it is understood the story will explore the USS Enterprise's origins. More casting news is expected to follow shortly, however Matt Damon fans can forget about seeing their man portray a young Captain Kirk: the Bourne Ultimatum star has already said he's too old for the role. Star Trek will boldy go into the world's cinemas in December 2008.

Ray Winstone, Cate Blanchett and newly anointed US heartthrob Shia LaBeouf also star alongside Ford's whip-cracking adventurer, who arrives in cinemas in May 2008.

Footage of Winstone as a muscle-bound Beowulf in Robert Zemeckis' high-tech rendering of the epic poem, meanwhile, has also been wowing the crowd. The film opens later this year.

Sylar as Spock? That seems like genius casting to me. I hope he can pull it off.

jthig32 · 07-27-2007, 02:33 PM

mmm. That is excellent casting.

u2sarajevo · 07-27-2007, 04:23 PM

¿ǝq oʇ ƃuıoƃ ǝɥ sı oɥʍ ˙˙˙˙ʇsɐɔ ǝq plnoʍ ʎoɯıu pɹɐuoǝl ʇɐɥʇ pıɐs ʇı

Flacolaco · 07-27-2007, 04:28 PM

He's going to be old Spock. I'm not quite sure under what setting they could show him in his current state. He's so freaking old looking now. It would have to be literally "current" in the Star Trek universe, being post Nemesis time. They never said when he dies.

Unless they makeup him up real good and try to do a scene that is like slightly post-"Undiscovered Country"?

I don't know. But he will be playing Spock.

u2sarajevo · 07-27-2007, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

He's going to be old Spock. I'm not quite sure under what setting they could show him in his current state. He's so freaking old looking now. It would have to be literally "current" in the Star Trek universe, being post Nemesis time. They never said when he dies.

Unless they makeup him up real good and try to do a scene that is like slightly post-"Undiscovered Country"?

I don't know. But he will be playing Spock.

....ǝıʌoɯ ʞǝɹʇ ɹɐʇs ʍǝu ǝɥʇ uı "spɹɐʍɹoɟ-ɥsɐ1ɟ" ǝʌɐɥ ʎ11ɐıʇuǝssǝ 11ıʍ ʎǝɥʇ os ......buıʇsǝɹǝʇuı

ty · 07-30-2007, 04:54 AM

For Kirk, they definitely need somebody young that appeals to the ladies. That's what the original Star Treks had. Sex appeal. Kirk was always hooking up with women from galaxies far far away...

ty · 07-30-2007, 04:59 AM

Craap. Sylar is going to be Spock.

Flacolaco · 11-18-2008, 01:38 PM

Anyone see the new trailer with the Bond movie?

Looked pretty sweet to me.

edit: Apparently Abrams showed 25 minutes of the movie to some press over the weekend. You can read highly detailed information about it if you look. From what I'm reading, I'll just say that if you're a hard core Trek guy like me...it just sounds like they're going to re-write a lot of the history we think we know.

92bDad · 11-18-2008, 02:17 PM

Sorry folks...not a Star Trek fan...I've tried to watch a show here and there, old, new and in-between...but it can never get my attention long enough to stick with it.

Then again, my shows keep getting canceled...

"Jericho"
"My Own Worst Enemy"
"Journeyman"
"K-Ville"

The Republicans...ooops wrong thread :-)

MavsX · 11-18-2008, 05:49 PM

im still laughing at myself from 2 years ago. god i'm funny.

ty · 11-19-2008, 02:09 AM

Here you go, fools.

http://www.apple.com/trailers/paramount/startrek/

Flacolaco · 05-06-2009, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I have zero interest in more movies about the original series, in any way.

Make it TNG, or let it die.

I'd like to get an update on this statement.

I know the advertising has been over the top in recent weeks, but I am excited about Thursday. Really, really excited. This thing is getting some pretty nice reviews.

jthig32 · 05-06-2009, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

I'd like to get an update on this statement.

I know the advertising has been over the top in recent weeks, but I am excited about Thursday. Really, really excited. This thing is getting some pretty nice reviews.

Heh. I'd completely forgotten about that statement.

I'm on board. My comment still stands, but this obviously looks like a giant departure from anything ever done focusing on the original series.