Ajinca is nothing more than an expiring contract

[sefant77]

Too bad he blew all his little trade value in two games

[dude1394]

Come on MAN!!! He's GOT TO PLAY!!! HE"S SO MUCH BETTER THAN CARDINAL OR THE NEW GUY!!! Come ON!!

What a shocker..

[mavs777]

He is 22 and raw, he frankly shouldn't be seeing the floor, he has a bit potential if he can find a way to get better lateral movement, and better court awareness, but he isn't close to being a rotational player yet.

[xrobx]

he sucks. bad. every time he touches the ball he jacks up an ill advised jumper. i cringe every time the ball is passed to him. he also is a 7 footer who can't rebound.

[CadBane]

Reminds me of Ryan Hollins with a jumper. Bleh.

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by CadBane

Reminds me of Ryan Hollins with a jumper. Bleh.

That would be pretty decent, if he could be that in a couple of years, Hollins was a pretty decent backup

[frankvizza]

lets not blame him its the coaches fault , ajinca is a good player but just not on this mavs team , this mavs team has no time to bring these young guys in

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by mavs777

That would be pretty decent, if he could be that in a couple of years, Hollins was a pretty decent backup

Except he and Hollins can't rebound worth s**t, nor are they good defenders outside of blocking shots, nor do they have any feel for offensive schemes. I never cared for Hollins, and I don't have much hope for Lex.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by frankvizza

lets not blame him its the coaches fault , ajinca is a good player but just not on this mavs team , this mavs team has no time to bring these young guys in

He wasn't a good player with the Bobcats either. He's young, he could improve. But I don't think he'll ever amount to much.

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by CadBane

Except he and Hollins can't rebound worth s**t, nor are they good defenders outside of blocking shots, nor do they have any feel for offensive schemes. I never cared for Hollins, and I don't have much hope for Lex.

Hollins was a pretty decent defender, he was just too aggressive and very young, he has potential to be a decent player

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by mavs777

Hollins was a pretty decent defender, he was just too aggressive and very young, he has potential to be a decent player

He's been in the league 5 years, he is what he is. A poor man's Stromile Swift. And Hollins was definitely a below average man defender.

[JHT]

Sadly true.

Mahimi on the other hand has a lot of potential and should be the one getting those PF minutes. Especially when we have Haywood to play backup Center.

[JHT]

Here's a fun excercise. How many Spurs players do you think would be starters if they were moved to the current Dallas roster?

My list:
T. Duncan (you'd start him at Center over Chandler)
R. Jefferson
M. Ginobli
T. Parker
G. Neal

Now how many Dallas players do you think would be starters on the San Antonio roster if they were moved there?

My list:
D. Nowitzki (Duncan would slide to Center)
T. Chandler (Duncan can play PF)

When you look at it that way... this is not a good team. With or without Dirk. It's a little better if Caron were in the mix, but I don't think even he would start in San Antonio.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by frankvizza

lets not blame him its the coaches fault , ajinca is a good player but just not on this mavs team , this mavs team has no time to bring these young guys in

It's the coaches fault if he doesn't play the kids and it's the coaches fault if they suck when he does. Like every message board around...the coach sucks unless the team wins every game.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by JHT

Here's a fun excercise. How many Spurs players do you think would be starters if they were moved to the current Dallas roster?

My list:
T. Duncan (you'd start him at Center over Chandler)
R. Jefferson
M. Ginobli
T. Parker
G. Neal

Now how many Dallas players do you think would be starters on the San Antonio roster if they were moved there?

My list:
D. Nowitzki (Duncan would slide to Center)
T. Chandler (Duncan can play PF)

When you look at it that way... this is not a good team. With or without Dirk. It's a little better if Caron were in the mix, but I don't think even he would start in San Antonio.

dirk, chandler, jet, caron sounds about right. Parker, ginobbli, parker are solid..The rest are spares.

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by JHT

Here's a fun excercise. How many Spurs players do you think would be starters if they were moved to the current Dallas roster?

My list:
T. Duncan (you'd start him at Center over Chandler)
R. Jefferson
M. Ginobli
T. Parker
G. Neal

Now how many Dallas players do you think would be starters on the San Antonio roster if they were moved there?

My list:
D. Nowitzki (Duncan would slide to Center)
T. Chandler (Duncan can play PF)

When you look at it that way... this is not a good team. With or without Dirk. It's a little better if Caron were in the mix, but I don't think even he would start in San Antonio.

Gary Neal? He is a pretty good scorer, but other than that he isn't much of anything, terrible passer, undersized 2 bad defender, Stevenson> Neal

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by dude1394

dirk, chandler, jet, caron sounds about right. Parker, ginobbli, parker are solid..The rest are spares.

Yeah, that Duncan guy is a huge spare.

Anyway, Blair, Jefferson, and Hill are far from spares. Those "spares" would greatly help our team.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by JHT

Sadly true.

Mahimi on the other hand has a lot of potential and should be the one getting those PF minutes. Especially when we have Haywood to play backup Center.

This. Ian has actually consistently shown solid production when he plays, be it in garbage time or crucial minutes. It makes no sense that Lex gets minutes over him. There is no reason in most situations Ian can't play the 4. None.

[JHT]

Originally Posted by dude1394

dirk, chandler, jet, caron sounds about right. Parker, ginobbli, parker are solid..The rest are spares.

So you think the Spurs would play JET over Ginboli or Parker? That's insane. No way.

You think they'd go with Caron over Jefferson? No way but I'll give you that one is at least sort of close. But Caron isn't playing and isn't going to be. So let's leave him out of the discussion.

Of the players likely to be an active part of the Mavs roster any time soon, I maintain that only 2 of them would get starter minutes on the Spurs while at least 5 if not 6 of the Spurs would get starter minutes if they were moved to the current Mavs.

That's a HUGE gap. Just huge.

[JHT]

Originally Posted by mavs777

Gary Neal? He is a pretty good scorer, but other than that he isn't much of anything, terrible passer, undersized 2 bad defender, Stevenson> Neal

Yeah but with the Mavs in desperate need of a scorer, I think they'd start him. Maybe not. I'll give you that one's close.

Even if you take him off though that's still 5 Spurs who would start on the Mavs versus 2 Mavs who would start on the Spurs.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by JHT

So you think the Spurs would play JET over Ginboli or Parker? That's insane. No way.

You think they'd go with Caron over Jefferson? No way but I'll give you that one is at least sort of close. But Caron isn't playing and isn't going to be. So let's leave him out of the discussion.

Of the players likely to be an active part of the Mavs roster any time two, I maintain that only 2 of them would get starter minutes on the Spurs while at least 5 if not 6 of the Spurs would get starter minutes if they were moved to the current Mavs.

That's a HUGE gap. Just huge.

Nope but they'd play him over jefferson I expect. Unless we are talking about just positions. Jet/dirk/caron/chandler would be solids for the spurs. I'm not sure (nor are you) how it would shake out.. Chandler wouldn't start for example because duncan/dirk would.

The best five are :
dirk, duncan, chandler, parker, ginobbli, caron(?) .. but you can't just put together a team with the best 5...

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by CadBane

Yeah, that Duncan guy is a huge spare.

Anyway, Blair, Jefferson, and Hill are far from spares. Those "spares" would greatly help our team.

got me there...

[mavs777]

Nobody is arguing who is the deeper team that is clearly the Spurs

[JHT]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Nope but they'd play him over jefferson I expect. Unless we are talking about just positions. Jet/dirk/caron/chandler would be solids for the spurs. I'm not sure (nor are you) how it would shake out.. Chandler wouldn't start for example because duncan/dirk would.

The question wasn't who would be "solids" for the Spurs. The question was who would start for the Spurs of the current active Mavericks roster.

Caron is not really part of the team, so nix that.

And you agree that JET would not start.

That means you agree that only 2 Mavs would start if moved to the current Spurs roster.

Great. Glad we agree for once.

[JHT]

Originally Posted by mavs777

Nobody is arguing who is the deeper team that is clearly the Spurs

They're not just deeper though, they have a better starting 5 too. They're better in every way, even if you add Dirk. Their a LOT better.

I mean that's not news to anybody, we might have disputed it before all the injuries but it's clear now.

I just think it becomes really clear how much better they are when you look at it that way, and clear how badly the Mavs have to make a change... or hope that Roddy's magic.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by JHT

So you think the Spurs would play JET over Ginboli or Parker? That's insane. No way.

You think they'd go with Caron over Jefferson? No way but I'll give you that one is at least sort of close. But Caron isn't playing and isn't going to be. So let's leave him out of the discussion.

Of the players likely to be an active part of the Mavs roster any time soon, I maintain that only 2 of them would get starter minutes on the Spurs while at least 5 if not 6 of the Spurs would get starter minutes if they were moved to the current Mavs.

That's a HUGE gap. Just huge.

No jet wouldn't be over ginobbli or parker...but he would over jefferson I expect. And I don't see why pops wouldn't love caron over jefferson. He's tougher, scores as well and plays better defense.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by JHT

The question wasn't who would be "solids" for the Spurs. The question was who would start for the Spurs of the current active Mavericks roster.

Caron is not really part of the team, so nix that.

And you agree that JET would not start.

That means you agree that only 2 Mavs would start if moved to the current Spurs roster.

Great. Glad we agree for once.

so after all of that we'd have 3 spurs and 2 mavs starting. And that would happen no matter what as there are only 5 starters?

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by JHT

They're not just deeper though, they have a better starting 5 too. They're better in every way, even if you add Dirk. Their a LOT better.

I mean that's not news to anybody, we might have disputed it before all the injuries but it's clear now.

I just think it becomes really clear how much better they are when you look at it that way, and clear how badly the Mavs have to make a change... or hope that Roddy's magic.

If you toss caron out of the mix..sure..but who wouldn't think so. if you toss ginobblie out of the mix we've seen that team struggle mightly as well.

the mavs need a 3 badly, I agree...but I'm not even clear what the point of the argument is when you've lost who was becoming quickly our best #2.

[JHT]

Originally Posted by dude1394

No jet wouldn't be over ginobbli or parker...but he would over jefferson I expect. And I don't see why pops wouldn't love caron over jefferson. He's tougher, scores as well and plays better defense.

Why do you keep mentioning Caron? He's not playing for the Mavs this year. Irrelevant.

JET can't even start on the Mavs over Stevenson, why would he start over Jefferson... at the 3??? Pops isn't going to run a 3-guard lineup. I guess he could move Ginobli to the 3?

JET is scoring a little more PPG than Jefferson this year, but only because he shoots a higher volume. Jefferson's FG% (0.475) is better and his 3PT% (0.420) is VASTLY better than Terry's (0.442 & 0.335)... and he's not undersized. I guess I don't see why you think Pops or anyone would start JET over him. Seems like a no-brainer to go with the guy who's more efficient and bigger than an undersized, streaky volume shooter (not that I don't love JET, but he is what he is now).

[JHT]

Originally Posted by dude1394

If you toss caron out of the mix..sure..but who wouldn't think so. if you toss ginobblie out of the mix we've seen that team struggle mightly as well.

Yes but Ginobli isn't being tossed out of the mix, he is playing, Caron isn't. Are you unaware that Butler is done for the year? Why do you keep bringing him up?

We're discussing the team that is, not the team that was or that we wish there was.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by JHT

Why do you keep mentioning Caron? He's not playing for the Mavs this year. Irrelevant.

JET can't even start on the Mavs over Stevenson, why would he start over Jefferson... at the 3??? Pops isn't going to run a 3-guard lineup. I guess he could move Ginobli to the 3?

JET is scoring a little more PPG than Jefferson this year, but only because he shoots a higher volume. Jefferson's FG% (0.475) is better and his 3PT% (0.420) is VASTLY better than Terry's (0.442 & 0.335)... and he's not undersized. I guess I don't see why you think Pops or anyone would start JET over him. Seems like a no-brainer to go with the guy who's more efficient and bigger than an undersized, streaky volume shooter (not that I don't love JET, but he is what he is now).

Because I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make. Dirk isn't playing right now either so should we toss him out?

This is the first year that manu has started so until this year he wouldn't have started on the mavs team because he couldn't even start on his own team?

Jet doesn't start because of choice...for many years manu didn't start either, but he was still the finisher because it helped the team. I'd never say that manu wasn't one of the best 5 on the team whether he starts or not.

So let's talk starters..since that's what you seem to want to do. Again we are assuming that dirk is back.

Duncan, dirk, jet, parker, manu....that's your starting 5.. Manu would play the 3, parker the point and jet the shooting guard. Chandler wouldn't start..

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Because I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make. Dirk isn't playing right now either so should we toss him out?

This is the first year that manu has started so until this year he wouldn't have started on the mavs team because he couldn't even start on his own team?

Jet doesn't start because of choice...for many years manu didn't start either, but he was still the finisher because it helped the team. I'd never say that manu wasn't one of the best 5 on the team whether he starts or not.

So let's talk starters..since that's what you seem to want to do. Again we are assuming that dirk is back.

Duncan, dirk, jet, parker, manu....that's your starting 5.. Manu would play the 3, parker the point and jet the shooting guard. Chandler wouldn't start..

Thats a terrible 1-3 defensivley, Manu would struggle with athletic threes parker and terry can be taken on the block and not much rebounding either

I think the best "5" from the 2 teams would be this
Parker
Ginobli
Marion
Dirk
Duncan

[dmakk]

Originally Posted by mavs777

Thats a terrible 1-3 defensivley, Manu would struggle with athletic threes parker and terry can be taken on the block and not much rebounding either

I think the best "5" from the 2 teams would be this
Parker
Ginobli
Marion
Dirk
Duncan

I can't believe that's the first mention of Marion in this thread. I'd definitely rather have him than Jefferson any day of the week. As for Ajinca, I'm glad we know what he is, as opposed to being enamored with what he could be from not seeing him play.

[dalger]

Originally Posted by JHT

Here's a fun excercise. How many Spurs players do you think would be starters if they were moved to the current Dallas roster?

My list:
T. Duncan (you'd start him at Center over Chandler)
R. Jefferson
M. Ginobli
T. Parker
G. Neal

Now how many Dallas players do you think would be starters on the San Antonio roster if they were moved there?

My list:
D. Nowitzki (Duncan would slide to Center)
T. Chandler (Duncan can play PF)

When you look at it that way... this is not a good team. With or without Dirk. It's a little better if Caron were in the mix, but I don't think even he would start in San Antonio.

[...]

That's a HUGE gap. Just huge.

But you do remember that we beat a healthy and rolling Spurs team on a 12-game winning streak in San Antonio with Dirk and Butler, right?

The Spurs are better than the Mavs without Dirk. Chances are they will be better than the Mavs even with Dirk. With Roddy back in the lineup, things should get a little more interesting again.

That said, nobody is denying the impact of Caron's absence, especially when it comes to the impact it could have on a playoff series against the Spurs. That's why seemingly everyone on this board is in favor of a useful trade to replace Caron. Everyone knows that a starting-caliber small forward is the missing link right now besides Dirk (and Roddy).

When Dirk and Caron were healthy, I just don't think that the Spurs were a better team than the Mavs. While their backcourt was superior to ours, our frontcourt was equally superior to theirs. Butler's injury takes away that advantage and thus creates a problem.

If we could get someone like Jackson, Wallace or Prince to hopefully make up for the loss of Butler, we should be very competitive again, even against the Spurs. Imagine we could land Jackson and then compare the teams:

Chandler, Dirk, Jackson, Stevenson, Kidd
vs.
Blair, Duncan, Jefferson, Ginobili, Parker

Perhaps that starting lineup for the Spurs would be a little better than ours. However, our bench with Roddy, Marion, Jet, Haywood and JJB would be incredible and most likely (much) better than theirs with Hill, Neal, McDyess and Bonner.