JJ Reddick - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Carolina Blue · 02-17-2006, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

Reddick will be a lottery pick this year. I can't foresee any reason he would go lower than that. He has an amazingly smooth and consistent shot, he is a smart player, he is very clutch, and he has strong leadership qualities

He won't be a lottery pick. I'm sure some deep team looking for perimeter depth will take him in the first round (Phoenix or Detroit maybe), but a 6'4" SG who's not very athletic or quick, plays TERRIBLE defense, doesn't handle the ball well, and has little to no upside - doesn't sound like a franchise player to me.

He plays in a system that's fits him perfectly. He's gets to curl off screens and take a ton of shots against mediocre college defenders because he's the focal point of the offense. That won't be the case in the NBA. I doubt teams will even run specific plays for him, let alone make him the center of their offensive strategy.

And if you think he's clutch, go back and watch the 2004 Tournament game against UConn. He single-handedly cost them the title with his 2nd half choke-job. Laettner was clutch. Duhon was clutch. Even Dockery is clutch. But Redick? No way. To paraphrase Jerry Stackhouse, "He's a garbage player."

Big Boy Laroux · 02-17-2006, 11:06 AM

ha ha ha ha. i think that's taking it a little far. i'm not going to label the guy as the next big NBA player (or even a lottery pick - although he COULD be... we ARE talking about NBA GMs, here), but he'll have a solid career. he's FAR from a "garbage player". your username reveals your obviously unbiased opinion.

sixeightmkw · 02-17-2006, 11:39 AM

Guys that can't create shots for themselves end up role players. Such as Finley is now. Fin dog couldn't create his own shot if he had an open lane to the basket. JJ will end up a role player and shoot a pretty high percentage 3, but thats about it. nothing else. Mabey if he improves his defensive skills.

SaltwaterChaffy · 02-17-2006, 12:45 PM

Finley was a multiple All-Star.

I don't see Rip Hamilton creating his own shot too much.
I don't recall Reggie Miller doing it much either.

Not making comparisons, just saying...

sixeightmkw · 02-17-2006, 01:06 PM

what does Rip and Reggie have in common. Great defensive players.

bobatundi · 02-17-2006, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carolina Blue

He won't be a lottery pick. I'm sure some deep team looking for perimeter depth will take him in the first round (Phoenix or Detroit maybe), but a 6'4" SG who's not very athletic or quick, plays TERRIBLE defense, doesn't handle the ball well, and has little to no upside - doesn't sound like a franchise player to me.

He plays in a system that's fits him perfectly. He's gets to curl off screens and take a ton of shots against mediocre college defenders because he's the focal point of the offense. That won't be the case in the NBA. I doubt teams will even run specific plays for him, let alone make him the center of their offensive strategy.

And if you think he's clutch, go back and watch the 2004 Tournament game against UConn. He single-handedly cost them the title with his 2nd half choke-job. Laettner was clutch. Duhon was clutch. Even Dockery is clutch. But Redick? No way. To paraphrase Jerry Stackhouse, "He's a garbage player."

A homer post if I've ever seen one...Carolina Blue.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-17-2006, 03:59 PM

I know a lot of people here don't like sports guy, but screw you guys:

Quote:

Q: Come on, we're all waiting. Where do you stand on this whole J.J. Redick thing? -- Frank, Charlotte, N.C.

SG: Glad you asked. I have a few thoughts on this one ...

1. If his name was "Joe Redick" or "Jimmy Redick," he wouldn't take nearly as much crap from anyone. Nobody wants to like a white kid named "J.J." It's one of those "I'm sorry, I have to hate you just out of principle" white sports names along the lines of "Chipper," "B.J." and "Christian."

2. If he went anywhere else but Duke, he wouldn't take 9/10th's as much crap from anyone. Switch him with Mike Nardi and stick Redick on the bombs-away Villanova team and you know what would happen? Everyone would be raving about how much fun Redick is to watch. Unfortunately for J.J., everyone hates Duke and he's the quintessential Zabka-like kid Coach K always recruits, so we're already biased against him. We want him to blow out an ACL or break something crashing into a scorer's table. This isn't his fault.

3. I don't care whether it's a lousy college hoops season or whether he's playing for a stacked Duke team: He's such a deadly shooter that (A) it's shocking when he misses a wide-open 3, and (B) he's one of those rare guys who can sink open 3s in any situation (even a 1-on-2 fast break), from any angle, anywhere on the court. There aren't five NBA players who have more confidence than Redick from 25 feet. I know it's practically sacrilegious to say, but I think he's immensely entertaining to watch. How often do you see a college kid with Cassell-like balls?

4. Anyone who thinks that Redick -- on the right team, in the right offense, with shot blockers to protect him on defense -- cannot end up being an asset in the NBA is insane. Repeat: Insane. He's a better shooter than Steve Kerr, John Paxson, Jerry Sichting, Trent Tucker or Craig Hodges, all of whom had similar games and played roles for championship teams. I would actually compare his ceiling to Rip Hamilton's ceiling (who is almost as bad defensively, by the way); you could craft a decent offense from running Redick off multiple picks and getting him open shots.

I look at it this way: If you're an A-plus in any category, you're going to crack a 9-man rotation in the NBA, regardless of whether you have any other skills or not. Desagana Diop blocks shots, and that's all he does; Eddie House makes jumpers, and that's all he does; Carlos Delfino plays defense, and that's all he does; and all of those guys are contributing to 60-win teams right now. Redick is going to find the right team (maybe not right away), and he's going to make open 3s, and even if that's all he does, he'll be one of the best eight guys on the team. It's going to happen. The funny thing is, NBA scouts are always more enamored with multi-tool guys like Dunleavy and Darko who end up not being able to do anything that well. So those guys get drafted above guys like Redick, and then everyone is amazed when Redick turns out to be a better pro.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-17-2006, 04:00 PM

reggie and rip are "great" defensive players? since when?

FINtastic · 02-17-2006, 04:36 PM

You may say Carolina Blue is a homer, but he's pretty dead on with most of his description, other than maybe the description about him being a garbage player. Redick might have the chance to be a Rip Hamilton if he gets lucky and gets put in the right system because he's really good at running around picks, catching the ball, and putting it in the basket. That's the system he's been in at dook, which is why he puts up such gaudy point totals. If he gets stuck on a team where he is asked to create a jumper for himself, he's going to be in a little bit of trouble.

EricaLubarsky · 02-17-2006, 04:47 PM

I think a few of you have it wrong

1) He is not homely in the slightest. He's the cutest mormon boy I have ever seen) even if he isnt a mormon)

2) He is a stud with an infectious work ethic and room to improve.

3) He is underestimated at creating his own shot. He's not an iverson now, and he won't be an iverson at the NBA level for sure, but the guy has nice handles and can play both sides of a pick and pop, hack and slash, whatever.

4) He is a consumate professional, who does not eat junk food for its effect on the sportsmans body, and who has refined practice to an art.

If you look at what he CAN do and what he IS, he's a lot more attractive. Sure, he isnt going to replace Artest on the all defensive team, AI or Kobe on the all-creator team or Nash in the skills challenge, but he has a good chance of keeping pace or surpassing Korver, Kerr, etc. and qualitatively adding to a team that is heading to the playoffs. BB's article is probably the best I've seen on him.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-17-2006, 04:58 PM

i do think the anti-Duke bias is a huge part of why people think he's overrated. but the kid can play, flat-out.

FINtastic · 02-17-2006, 04:59 PM

I'm not sure why you think he has nice "nice handles". He loses the ball pretty way too when he drives to the basket if the refs aren't there to bail him out. His ability to create his own shot has always left me unimpressed. While it has gotten a bit better this year, as recently as this summer, he had trouble getting a decent shot off when forced to create. I'm still not convinced that his recent improvement in creating his own shot will be enough to work against the uber-athletic defenders he's going to face in the NBA.

sixeightmkw · 02-17-2006, 05:00 PM

some people make it in the NBA and some don't. Duke has a track record of not producing NBA quality players, unlike other schools. I guess we will see how he does. I just don't see a shooter who is not a point guard, which he is not, making it in the NBA.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-17-2006, 05:01 PM

what team would draft JJ as the savior of a franchise? no one. just like no one here is saying he's going to be an amazing, Hall-of-Fame NBA player. but he's going to be good. put him on a team with a natural playmaker, and it's lights out.

do the suns have a first-round pick this year? imagine if he fell to them...

Big Boy Laroux · 02-17-2006, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixeightmkw

I just don't see a shooter who is not a point guard, which he is not, making it in the NBA.

this could be the most ridiuclous statement i've ever read. all shooters are supposed to be point guards?

as for duke producing NBA players, it seems like they've had quite a few, especially recently.

http://rpiratings.com/NBA.html

http://www.basketballreference.com/p...uke+University

and a head to head of Duke vs. UNC for current NBA players (this was from last year)

http://web.archive.org/web/200502200...ves/000641.php

EricaLubarsky · 02-17-2006, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixeightmkw

Duke has a track record of not producing NBA quality players, unlike other schools.

Elton Brand should be an allstar
Battier is one of the most underrated players in the NBA
Jay Williams had the NBA licking its lips
Danny Ferry had a championship
Carlos Boozer might be a dick, but he's a heck of a player
Christian Laettner
Grant Hill was destined to be fantastic and still is good
Dunleavy has all the skills to be Diaw
Luol Deng is still on the rise

Jeff Mullins 3 time allstar

name a team that has better success...UNC? Its hard to say that they arent at least in the top half of colleges

and damn you BB, you provided the better link. I just tried to brainstorm players

FINtastic · 02-17-2006, 05:11 PM

BBL, it's because he always has been overrated, up until this year. He wasn't worthy of the "best shooter in the last 25 years" label that people tried to pin on him his first few years when he could barely shoot 40% from the field, and he didn't even shoot shoot 40% from 3 point land (he shot 39.5% both years). He wasn't the best player in the ACC last year, but he still won ACC POY. You still had people calling him the greatest shooter in college basketball, when I think there isn't much question that Salim Stoudamire shot better than him. He's never shown up in the tourney thus far in his career, and on the contrary has knocked his team out with a his bad shooting performances. This is the first year where he has ever lived up to the hype and quite possibly exceeded it because he actually does seem to have a more complete scoring arsenal.

He also gathers some hatred just because continues along a long line of smug Duke players.

FINtastic · 02-17-2006, 05:14 PM

UCLA has had some decent success, although not recently.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-17-2006, 05:16 PM

i said it's a huge part. i never said it's the only reason. i do know he has gotten A LOT of coverage over the years and a lot of people talking about him (Dukie V, especially). That can turn people off instantly.

i just don't see the smug thing. what makes him smug? that he has confidence in his game? that he reacts certain ways to his shot?

man, i love adam morrison, but that kid needs to be punched some times for the way he reacts to the some of the plays he makes. not to take this off subject or anything.

sixeightmkw · 02-17-2006, 05:23 PM

that was a good list of 10 players that duke has produced that have actually done something in the NBA. What about the other 50 years of Duke Basketball that have been played and those players that didn't fizzle out. The one team that Duke had in early 2000's had good players. Notice that I said a HISTORY. It was early 80's last time they sent decent players to the NBA. And don't give me Hill, Ferry, and Mullins. That is 3 players.
and about that liste up there.
Dunleavy - Spare, very Spare
Williams - dumb ass, couldn't read his own contract about not riding motorcycles
Hill - fizzled out years ago and trying to hold on to that dream
Brand - very good player, i'll give you that
Laetnner - sparest of the spares
Deng - decent
Duhon - decent

Whatever happened to Trajan Langdan, I thought he was the next big thing?

FINtastic · 02-17-2006, 05:24 PM

I think the not producing quality pro players has some validity, especially when you consider where all of those players you listed were drafted and the number of McD All-Americans that come through each year. The only two players that dook has produced that were legitimate top 20 material in any given year were Elton Brand and Grant Hill, and Brand just reached that status this year. Laettner and Dunleavy were huge flops considering where they were drafted. J-Will is an incomplete because of his unfortunate accident, but he didn't light the league on fire like anyone thought he would in his rookie year. Danny Ferry won a championship (did he win two - can't remember) by riding on the coattails of Tim Duncan. He hardly brought anything to the table for that 2003 team. By the way, he's the only NBA champion that Duke has ever produced. Danny Ferry is the only Duke player (at least in the last 20 or so years) ever to get a NBA championship ring. Considering all of their success at the college level, that's a little underwhelming, don't you think?

EricaLubarsky · 02-17-2006, 05:25 PM

I honestly think that Morrison will have less success than Reddick at the next level. Reddick has borderline NBA speed, while Morrison is barely afloat in the NCAA. Reddick moves better than anybody in the NCAA off the screen and has better handles.

Reddick could be a nice guy to kick out to and maybe make a second slash.
Morrison on the other hand is going to find that he can't get by anyone, and that in the NBA shooting guards and small forwards are too athletic to let him get anything off, and that every 4 is either too tall, too quick or both.

FINtastic · 02-17-2006, 05:27 PM

The only example of smugness that immediately comes to mind, is the double shocker sign after that one three he hit against Carolina this year. Well, that and the Sports Illustrated article, where he was whining about lack of love from opposing fans and such.

Carolina Blue · 02-17-2006, 05:59 PM

Call me a homer, I don't really care. Obviously I'm a UNC fan. I grew up in Carolina and I went to school there. That doesn't mean I can't appreciate talent for other teams. Yeah I hate Duke, but I have no problem admitting that Christian Laettner was probably the best college player I've ever seen. Or that Elton Brand was practically unstoppable in the ACC. Or that Coach K is one of the greatest coaches of all-time. I also hate Wake Forest but Chris Paul was 10 times the point guard Raymond Felton was - and I think Felton was pretty good.

Redick just has never impressed me. I've seen too many mediocre players shut him down. But people used over-hype Dunleavy too saying how his height, ball-handeling skills, and unlimited shooting range would make him deadly in the pros - and I never really saw that either. Who knows...

Big Boy Laroux · 02-17-2006, 06:49 PM

ha ha, the shocker. i honestly think he was signaling "three", but whatever. i think it's hilarious.

as for laettner being a spare. people that say that are obviously just buying into their anti-duke agenda and not facing facts...

career averages of 12.8 ppg and 6.7 rpg? hardly spare-worthy, and that's even with his last few years of coming off the bench in Washington and Miami. in his best years, he was averaging between 17 and 18 ppg and 7-8 rpg (about a 4-5 year span). did he take the league by storm? of course not, but he was a hell of a solid nba player, for TWELVE years.

who cares if the majority of duke players have been recent? that's still part of their HISTORY. again, hit this site. this has the HISTORY you are looking for:

http://www.databasebasketball.com/pl...rbycollege.htm

sure, the colleges with a longstanding history of success are UNC (67), UK (75), UCLA (70), but Duke has 44 and that's very respectable, especially considering the majority are from when Coach K took over.

FINtastic · 02-17-2006, 07:45 PM

http://www.goduke.com//pics8/800/KS/...0208053955.jpg

In case you wanted proof.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-17-2006, 08:04 PM

yeah, i've seen the pictures of it. it is the same as the shocker, but was that his intention? maybe that's how he signals a made three-pointer?

regardless of if that was his intention, or it's been misinterpreted, i still think it's hilarious.

EricaLubarsky · 02-17-2006, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

http://www.goduke.com//pics8/800/KS/...0208053955.jpg

In case you wanted proof.

It's not like he is a balding, no-talent spare hoisting himself to self-proclaimed stardom on the back of a Chinese behemoth and a talented kobe-clone, who thinks that he is a star based on his heredity and the size of his nose.

Reddick is a star, and the big difference-- he wasnt jamming that hand signal out there.

Carolina Blue · 02-17-2006, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Reddick is a star

MJ, LeBron, Kobe, and Redick...
Yeah, I'm sure all the kids on the playgrounds across the world wanna be like JJ.

The fact that most people can't even spell his name correctly just proves his all-world transcending quality.

And for those that are convinced he's clutch:

2005 NCAA Tournament loss to Michigan St - he shot 4/14 - 29%
2004 NCAA Tournament loss to UConn - he shot 4/12 - 33%
2003 NCAA Tournament loss to Kansas - he shot 2/16 - 13%

In 3 of the biggest games of his career he shot 10/42 - 24%. Clearly he's money.

Anyone who thinks he's great or a star buys into ESPN and Dickie V's hype. Anyone who's watched him play over the years knows different.

FINtastic · 02-17-2006, 09:13 PM

Come on, he's a college kid. Do you really, honestly think he has no clue what that means?

Big Boy Laroux · 02-18-2006, 12:19 AM

so he's sly with his hand signals, gotta love it.

alby · 02-18-2006, 03:09 AM

There's nothing wrong with being the next Steve Kerr...

you still make millions of dollars
and you still win the rings

Reddick is a hybrid between Steve Kerr, John Paxon, and Jon Barry.

JWill88888 · 02-18-2006, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonely PSU Mavs Fan

Steve Kerr never did anything else particularly well except shoot, and he had a decent career. A player that is lights-out from 3 pt. land has a place in the NBA. I dont think he will be an all-star or anything, but i think he has potential to be as good or better than Kerr.

comparing jj redick to steve kerr??? r u kidding me??? the nba's all time leading 3 pt percentage shooter???

redick is having a career year from 3 point land at ONLY 43%, way below Kerr's 51% in college and still below Kerr's career average from the more difficult nba 3 point line.

redick just set the all time ncaa record for 3 pointers, by passing guys who had no nba career to speak of. seriously, who's heard of curtis staples? now this doesnt necessarily mean anything but it is worth noting.

JJ succeeds IF AND ONLY IF:

1) JJ lands on a championship caliber team
2) JJ gets his 3 screens per shot
3) JJ doesn't have to actually expend energy playing D
4) JJ doesn't have to actually HANDLE the rock
5) JJ is given his "fair share of touches" so he's happy
6) JJ has at least 2 real stars on his team so he's not the focus of the D in the NBA
7) JJ gets the calls
8) JJ masters THE FLOP
9) JJ gets open shots

you get the point.

im a huge college bball fan and i love watching the guy play at duke but his game just doesnt translate to the next level IMO. he reminds me of steve alford way too much, except that alford didnt seem to fall down everytime he shot the ball.

Five-ofan · 02-18-2006, 05:09 PM

JJ needs to go to the right situation but he does have a role on a good team. If you expect him to set the world on fire no he wont but he will be good enough to hang around in the nba for 10-14 years and contribute to good teams. BTW i dont agree with the rip comparison because of the height. Rip is 6 7 and doesnt shoot THAT many threes. In fact until 2 years ago he couldnt shoot 3s. Reddick will be fine. BTW, Reggie and rip are/were great defenders???? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Catches breath....
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha .
Thanks for the laugh. Reggie especially.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-20-2006, 11:16 AM

he is now duke's all-time leading scorer.

foglemann · 02-20-2006, 03:58 PM

I don't get the Rip or Reggie relations with JJ. He may come off screens now, but in the NBA, I seriously doubt that he'll get that opportunity. Also, IMO, Rip and Reggie are/were some the greatest runners in NBA history. These guys have marathon like running ability, probably run about 5 or 6 miles in a game. I've only watched JJ a few times this year, but have seen him in year's past, and I don't see JJ having the endurance as these two guys have. BUT, a solid role player become he can.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-26-2006, 11:49 AM

not a strong game by redick (temple does pay good D), bu he is now the all-time leading score in ACC history. not sure where he is all-time. not top-10, but maybe top-20 or 30.

and he got the record on free throws.

god, duke would have blown-out temple if shelden williams hadn't missed so many free throws. JJ was blanketed, he'd find williams underneath, and shelden would get fouled. then miss the free throws. the guy is normally a 75% shooter.

Dirkenstien · 02-27-2006, 11:53 AM

I would love to see Redick land in Cleveland. They are in dire need of a true 3-point threat and he would get plenty of wide open looks with Lebron slashing and cutting his way towards the basket.

orangedays · 02-27-2006, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

I would love to see Redick land in Cleveland. They are in dire need of a true 3-point threat and he would get plenty of wide open looks with Lebron slashing and cutting his way towards the basket.

I agree that he would be a good fit there (and good option behind Hughes) but they need a better PG than Eric flippin' Snow first.

Carolina Blue · 03-05-2006, 03:10 AM

Shall we recap his magnificent shooting performances from the past few games:

2/22 @ Ga Tech = 5/21 FGs (23.8%) and 1/6 3pt FGs (16.7%)
2/25 @ Temple = 3/10 FGs (30%) and 1/6 3pt FGs (16.7%)
3/1 @ Fla St = 10/28 FGs (35.7%) and 4/14 3pt FGs (28.6%)
3/4 vs UNC = 5/21 FGs (23.8%) and 2/10 3pt FGs (20%)

So he closes out his final regular season shooting 23/80 (28.8%) from the field and 8/36 (22.2%) from behind the arc. Obviously NBA scouts are drooling over his shooting ability.

So what have we learned:
1) Redick is an overrated shooter.
2) He doesn't know when to quit jacking up shots.
3) He has all the makings of being the next Duke star to dominate the Italian League.