Could we possibly get Pierce? - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Dirkenstien · 11-23-2005, 01:24 PM

I brought this up in another thread and decided it was worthy of its own.

According to realgm. any combination of two out of these three players would work for Pierce: Stackhouse, Daniels, Terry.

Pierce is a guy that can really play defense and would fit in tremendousy under Avery's system. He is tough and a fierce competitor. With Boston's current youth movement, Terry and M.Daniels would probably be the best deal for them, as long as we throw in a future pick or two and cash considerations.

With Christie out, it's time to realize that a quality starter is more important than a deep bench. This trade would push the Mavericks to the next level and strike fear into the hearts of opponents.

A look at our potential line up:

PG: Harris/Armstrong ...quick and tough defensive minded pg's.
SG: Pierce/Stackhouse/Harris... Competive defensive players who can put points up and get to the line.
SF: J.Howard/ Stackhouse/ Powell... Defense, energy, and more defense.
PF: Dirk/KVH... a great source of points and boards.
C: Dampier/Diop ...blocks and boards galore.

Cuban, get on the phone and make this happen.

alby · 11-23-2005, 01:30 PM

and here it starts...

I was adamently pushing for a Pierce trade this summer, but unless Stackhouse is permanently injured, I'm pretty happy with our current roster.

Terry/Harris/Daniels/Stack rotation at the 1 and 2 is pretty darn good IMO.

BUT, if StackAttack is really injured................................

birdsanctuary · 11-23-2005, 01:31 PM

Dirkenstein, I'm afraid to admit that the trade you propose: Terry and Daniels for Pierce probably does put the Mavs at the "next level" whatever that level might be.

However another important question to consider is:
Are the Mavs with the talent they have now at the "next level?"
I'm not too inclined to say no to this question yet...more games are needed.

But...if the proposition of Stack being seriously injured...maybe near to the level of Christie, then the Mavs should pursue this possibility, and I believe Boston is not hurt in the deal. Especially with Terry's expiring contract.

Dirkenstien · 11-23-2005, 01:36 PM

"Terry/Harris/Daniels/Stack rotation at the 1 and 2 is pretty darn good IMO"

I agree that is a good rotation and I love the way Avery is running the system this season, but in terms of a lineup that will give you the edge in those final minutes of a hard fought playoff game, you have to like what Pierce brings to this team.

Dirkenstien · 11-23-2005, 01:39 PM

"But...if the proposition of Stack being seriously injured...maybe near to the level of Christie, then the Mavs should pursue this possibility, and I believe Boston is not hurt in the deal. Especially with Terry's expiring contract"

What is the situation with Stackhouse. I thought he was due back in about a week or two?

birdsanctuary · 11-23-2005, 01:42 PM

Stack's knee keeps swelling up. He's been told not to practice:

It's at the bottom of DMN article on Christie.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...s.d41b436.html

Stackhouse biding his time:
by Eddie Sefko 11-23-05
Jerry Stackhouse suffered some swelling again in his right knee and is not expected to practice anytime soon. The slow-to-heal knee bruise is starting to frustrate Stackhouse, he said.

"It's a little embarrassing walking out there to the crowd with a suit on every game," he said. "We just haven't been getting the response we're hoping for as far as the healing of the bruise. It just pushes it back a bit."

Said Avery Johnson: "We don't have a timetable. I'm concerned, and he's a little concerned. The body has to be able to repair itself. It's just not repairing itself as quick as Stack or the coach wants it to."

Stackhouse bruised his knee in the first preseason game. It has swelled whenever he has pushed it.

"If I take a chance now and I jam it or do something, it's more susceptible to go back to ground zero," he said.

Pierce = High Basketball IQ

Captain Disaster · 11-23-2005, 11:03 PM

I know they play a different position, but is Pierce that much of an upgrade over Terry particularly if Harris can become a legit point guard? Isn't Pierce quite a bit older?

birdsanctuary · 11-23-2005, 11:39 PM

I don't know if NBA only lists top categories for the superstars, but Pierce is like in the top 20 in a lot of categories. Terry is not listed in the top 20 in any category. I would think that the statistics are generated by the computer not people on NBA.com.

Compare Pierce to Terry on NBA.com player profiles. Unless Terry is getting the shaft, Pierce is of the caliber of Dirk because only Dirk on the Mavs has similar top 20 statistics.

Terry
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jason_terry/index.html

Pierce
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/paul_pierce/index.html

alby · 11-24-2005, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Disaster

I know they play a different position, but is Pierce that much of an upgrade over Terry particularly if Harris can become a legit point guard? Isn't Pierce quite a bit older?

Pierce would be a HUGE upgrade over terry IF Harris becomes a legitimate point guard. Unfortunately, superstars win in this league, especially in the playoffs. They get the benefit of doubt and the the respect from the refs. Pierce and Terry both just turned 28 years old. Pierce obviously has the size over Terry and has a post game that will draw consistent double teams. He can defend the big guard as opposed to Terry during the Terry/Harris backcourt. Of course this all depends on whether or not Harris is ready to be the starting point guard of a championship caliber team.

With that being said, I do not want to blow up this roster UNLESS Stackhouse is seriously injured.

aexchange · 11-24-2005, 12:53 AM

i seriously doubt we could get pierce short of anything less than taking back blount and giving up some combination of howard, daniels, or harris.

doubt we would want to do that, and doubt that this ever happens.

alby · 11-24-2005, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aexchange

i seriously doubt we could get pierce short of anything less than taking back blount and giving up some combination of howard, daniels, or harris.

doubt we would want to do that, and doubt that this ever happens.

Believe Harder.

Thespiralgoeson · 11-24-2005, 01:01 AM

I was all over the Pierce bandwagon during the offseason, and I would still LOVE to see him in Dallas, but it just ain't gonna happen.

alby · 11-24-2005, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I was all over the Pierce bandwagon during the offseason, and I would still LOVE to see him in Dallas, but it just ain't gonna happen.

Believe Harder.

birdsanctuary · 11-24-2005, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I was all over the Pierce bandwagon during the offseason, and I would still LOVE to see him in Dallas, but it just ain't gonna happen.

Spiral this is Danny Ainge were talking about NOT Jerry West or Geoff Petrie...

Dirkenstien · 11-24-2005, 10:30 AM

Depending on how Boston performs this season, it could be very possible to get Pierce. He wants to win and that can be hard to do when you're practically rebuilding your team.

Honestly, I believe Terry, Daniels a draft pick and cash considerations could get the deal done. The trade gives them back some young talent, more opportunity for the future, and an expiring contract with Terry.

DubOverdose · 11-24-2005, 01:05 PM

I don't think Terry, Quis, a pick, and cash will get it done. If we trade for PP we will have to include KVH for cap relief or else its a no go for Boston. They need to clear up cap space so they can be a player in FA. Here's the trade I see them pulling the trigger on:
Dallas gives:
KVH
Terry
Quis
Dallas receives:
PP
Raef

We might even have to take Brian Scalabrine on (or Blount if they are nice). Will the hit to our depth be worth it? That being accounted for, PP has been about as good as there's been so far this season. 26ppg, 8.5rb, 4.5as on 48%fg, 45% 3fg

sike · 11-24-2005, 01:10 PM

not sure I'd do this...I view pierce as a volume shooter....and I'm too fond of those guys...

Dirkenstien · 11-24-2005, 03:06 PM

I would do KVH, Terry, and Daniels for Paul Pierce and Raef in a new york second.

Raef can play the 4 or 5, could be the primary back up for Dirk, and does a lot of the same things KVH does except with more shot blocking ability and a little less athleticism. Along with that we get Pierce who solidifies our defensive lineup and can take some of the pressure off of Dirk on offense.

Our lineup would look like this:
Dampier/ Diop/ Lafrentz
Dirk/ Lafrentz
J.Howard/ Stackhouse/ Powell
Pierce/ Stackhouse/
Harris/ Armstrong

That looks like championship material to me.

Ninkobei · 11-24-2005, 03:21 PM

I say no to the trade simply because of chemistry. The team is just now, after over a year, starting to come together. Dirk is getting comfortable with his teammates. No telling if this will happen again. A guy can only take so much turnover on a team before he stops trying (to create chemistry). You people are proposing a trade on a team that has nothing wrong with it. and for that I bid shame on you!

alby · 11-24-2005, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

I say no to the trade simply because of chemistry. The team is just now, after over a year, starting to come together. Dirk is getting comfortable with his teammates. No telling if this will happen again. A guy can only take so much turnover on a team before he stops trying (to create chemistry). You people are proposing a trade on a team that has nothing wrong with it. and for that I bid shame on you!

I'm bored, that's all. =)

aexchange · 11-24-2005, 05:54 PM

who in their right mind wouldnt trade daniels and terry for pierce? nobody.

the problem is you won't EVER I MEAN EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER get pierce for terry and daniels. anybody thinking otherwise has been smoking some crack the level of peter vescey. talking about sending our trash for pierce is a pure delusion. in order for us to get pierce we'd have to start with harris, howard, and van horn.

is that a price you're willing to pay for pierce?

i'm just amazed at the pure level of objectivity people have sometimes. its really disappointing.

Dirkenstien · 11-24-2005, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aexchange

who in their right mind wouldnt trade daniels and terry for pierce? nobody.

the problem is you won't EVER I MEAN EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER get pierce for terry and daniels. anybody thinking otherwise has been smoking some crack the level of peter vescey. talking about sending our trash for pierce is a pure delusion. in order for us to get pierce we'd have to start with harris, howard, and van horn.

is that a price you're willing to pay for pierce?

i'm just amazed at the pure level of objectivity people have sometimes. its really disappointing.

I believe a trade of KVH,Terry, and Daniels for Pierce and Lafrentz would be difficult for Boston to turn down.

Both Terry and KVH are coming off longterm, high-pay contracts this season; think about all of the money Boston could save and use to go after a young free agent to build around! Not to mention they would get another young talent in Daniels. And we're not talking about scrubs here, Terry and KVH are solid players and Daniels still has a lot of potential.

seelenjaeger · 11-24-2005, 10:51 PM

Well, while we are exchanging pipe dreams ...

Dallas Trade Breakdown

Outgoing
Jerry Stackhouse
6-6 SG from North Carolina
Marquis Daniels
6-6 SG from Auburn
Josh Howard
6-7 SF from Wake Forrest

Incoming
Raef LaFrentz
6-11 C from Kansas
Ron Artest
6-7 SF from St. John's

Boston Trade Breakdown

Outgoing
Paul Pierce
6-6 SF from Kansas
Raef LaFrentz
6-11 C from Kansas
Delonte West
6-4 PG from St. Joseph's

Incoming
Jerry Stackhouse
6-6 SG from North Carolina
Marquis Daniels
6-6 SG from Auburn
Josh Howard
6-7 SF from Wake Forrest
Jonathan Bender
7-0 SF from Picayune Memorial (HS)
Jeff Foster
6-11 C from Southwest Texas State

Indiana Trade Breakdown

Outgoing
Jonathan Bender
7-0 SF from Picayune Memorial (HS)
Ron Artest
6-7 SF from St. John's
Jeff Foster
6-11 C from Southwest Texas State

Incoming
Paul Pierce
6-6 SF from Kansas
Delonte West
6-4 PG from St. Joseph's

And to make up for the missing depth on the swingman position swap Keith Van Horn for Jalen Rose and a sweetener (first rounder down the road or 2 2nd rounders) and sign Erick Strickland, Hubert Davis or some trashscrub with 3pt ability of your choice.

Dampier, Diop, Benga, P-Pod
Nowitzki, LaFrentz
Rose, Powell
Artest, Marshall, Strickland
Terry, Harris, Armstrong

Dirkenstien · 11-24-2005, 11:12 PM

Interesting scenario sleenjagger but I wouldn't be interested in giving up Howard in that deal. Furthermore, I feel as though the Boston trade would be better suited for this team. I do like the idea of trading for Artest, although if you were going to make a move for him it's probably too late. His stock is way too high now with the way he has been performing this season.

birdsanctuary · 11-25-2005, 06:29 PM

Somebody refresh my mind, but when has a key trade let to a team winning a championship recently?

errr. R. Wallace...any others?

deanstpierre · 11-30-2005, 05:37 PM

If we can get Boston to do the Terry and Daniels trade why not get Minnesota to do a KG for KVH trade?

TomThaMavsFan · 11-30-2005, 08:22 PM

i think the only way boston would let go of pierce is if they were trying to dump salary , KVH and a young player like Harris, or Howard or Quis would be the only players that Boston would take. I think making a huge trade like this in the middle of the season would only set the team back. I know bringing in Pierce would be a great aquisition, but it would cause alot of havok as far as team chemistry is concerned.

jayC · 11-30-2005, 11:22 PM

I believe Pierce shot 50 percent from the field last year. He had his most efficient season as a pro. I think you always trade two good players for one maybe great player.

kriD · 12-01-2005, 07:52 AM

Pierce actually was available during the summer (I think Donnie mentioned it) and probably is still available for the team that is willing to take two or more bad contracts (I'm guessing LaFrentz AND Blount).

So a possible trade would look like this:

KvH, Terry or Stack, Daniels
for
Pierce, LaFrentz, Blount

LaFrentz could take the main parts of KvH's role - 20 mins of backup PF/C.

Blount could be traded back to the east for a backup PG or SG/SF.

But if you look back at Cuban's blog article from Aug 16th the whole thing probably won't happen anyway:

Quote:

(...) The model for success in the NBA has changed over the past 6 years I have been in the league. When I first got to the Mavs, there was no luxury tax, revenues from TV and the league went up every year, as did the salary cap. That changed dramatically with the leagues new TV deal and it changed even further with this years new collective bargaining agreement. Rather than an environment where salaries could go up because the cap and revenues were going up, we entered an environment where trades were made almost exclusively for financial reasons and rarely for basketball skill reasons.

The Mavs tried to take advantage of the situation. When the annual league revenue increases stopped and a luxury tax loomed, teams adjusted their financial profiles. To get under the tax threshold, they offered good players packaged with horrible contracts. We took them. We hoped the talent would get us a championship before the number of bad contracts we took on in trades caught up with us.

It didn’t happen

Over the past year we have done our best to try to “rebuild” and still be in a position to win a championship. We have always been good at developing young players. We work hard to give them personal attention and skills development. We are working to improve it even further and have completely upgraded our development programs this summer.

We are also significantly changing how we scout NBA players. It has become more organized, structured and planned rather than “gut feel”. We have a coach who is far more systematic in his approach to both

More importantly we have gone from just trying to acquire talent to have assets that in turn might be traded for better talent, to making sure we have players that fill a role for Coach Johnson’s vision of the team. Today, and for the future with young players that we can develop to fill those roles on future Mavs teams.
(...)
Are we going to get back in the business of taking on bad contracts to get a single player — no. Will we consider trading short term contracts for longer, more expensive players — yes. If it makes basketball sense and doesnt inhibit our future.(...)

bobatundi · 12-01-2005, 11:03 AM

Now that Blount's been benched, would Boston do this deal, for tons of cap room this offseason? Not sure how I feel about Blount, but I think I'd rather have him than take LaFoulz back. Pierce gets us that second superstar/scorer; Devin, Marquis & DA have to be ready for the PG role though.

Dallas Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Jason Terry
6-2 PG from Arizona
12.4 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 5.4 apg in 30.0 minutes
Keith Van Horn
6-10 SF from Utah
12.2 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 1.2 apg in 23.6 minutes
Incoming
Mark Blount
7-0 C from Pittsburgh
9.4 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.6 apg in 26.0 minutes
Paul Pierce
6-6 SF from Kansas
21.6 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 4.2 apg in 36.1 minutes
Change in team outlook: +6.4 ppg, +4.5 rpg, and -0.8 apg.

Boston Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Mark Blount
7-0 C from Pittsburgh
9.4 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.6 apg in 26.0 minutes
Paul Pierce
6-6 SF from Kansas
21.6 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 4.2 apg in 36.1 minutes
Incoming
Jason Terry
6-2 PG from Arizona
12.4 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 5.4 apg in 30.0 minutes
Keith Van Horn
6-10 SF from Utah
12.2 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 1.2 apg in 23.6 minutes
Change in team outlook: -6.4 ppg, -4.5 rpg, and +0.8 apg.

Five-ofan · 12-01-2005, 03:18 PM

sign me up

aexchange · 12-01-2005, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobatundi

Now that Blount's been benched, would Boston do this deal, for tons of cap room this offseason? Not sure how I feel about Blount, but I think I'd rather have him than take LaFoulz back. Pierce gets us that second superstar/scorer; Devin, Marquis & DA have to be ready for the PG role though.

Dallas Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Jason Terry
6-2 PG from Arizona
12.4 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 5.4 apg in 30.0 minutes
Keith Van Horn
6-10 SF from Utah
12.2 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 1.2 apg in 23.6 minutes
Incoming
Mark Blount
7-0 C from Pittsburgh
9.4 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.6 apg in 26.0 minutes
Paul Pierce
6-6 SF from Kansas
21.6 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 4.2 apg in 36.1 minutes
Change in team outlook: +6.4 ppg, +4.5 rpg, and -0.8 apg.

Boston Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Mark Blount
7-0 C from Pittsburgh
9.4 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.6 apg in 26.0 minutes
Paul Pierce
6-6 SF from Kansas
21.6 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 4.2 apg in 36.1 minutes
Incoming
Jason Terry
6-2 PG from Arizona
12.4 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 5.4 apg in 30.0 minutes
Keith Van Horn
6-10 SF from Utah
12.2 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 1.2 apg in 23.6 minutes
Change in team outlook: -6.4 ppg, -4.5 rpg, and +0.8 apg.

they might consider it if we included josh howard. is that a price you're willing to pay?

#1MavsFan · 12-01-2005, 11:46 PM

If you can get him and still keep Dirk and JHO you have to do it, no brainer.

MFFL · 12-02-2005, 12:34 AM

Obviously the Mavs have to make a deal. We need a better 2nd option to Dirk. There is no way that Dirk would get the double teams he is getting right now if Pierce was on the team.

But if we aren't giving the Celtics a young star-level player then they are going to look to dump BOTH of their centers on us. I don't know if Cuban is going to pay that kind of money.

AxdemxO · 12-02-2005, 12:37 AM

I like Pierce but I was against getting him...But with the way Dirk is playing lately i am starting to think that Pierce would help Dirk by getting him more open shots and i think we should go for him. We look really bad now. Especially Dirk.

DDog11 · 12-02-2005, 01:02 AM

One of things that Dallas is missing is a good 2 gaurd but since our pointgaurd isn't performing we're starting to run out of options. Pierce would only help if we had a solid point gaurd and I dont think Harris and DA can do the job Terry's doing at the PG postion.

MFFL · 12-02-2005, 01:08 AM

We would certainly have enought centers to trade for a point guard - we'd have SIX (unless you count Raef as a PF).

alby · 12-03-2005, 04:24 AM

Pierce scores 40+ and loses again.. Soon, those losses will take a toll.

jayC · 12-05-2005, 06:44 PM

Pierce shot fifty percent from the field last season. He has his most successful season as a pro. Pierce is only 27, Jet is 26. I wouldn't do the deal if I lost Jho. You need defenders and glue guys to win titles. The mavs might have the right mix of players now.

snoop · 12-06-2005, 04:08 PM

I think with the steady improvment of Harris you can take this chance. I dont know if i include a draft pick. Terry and quis should be enough to get PP