ESPN Theorizing: Antonio Davis To Dallas - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

HexNBA · 02-05-2006, 02:35 PM

From Chris Sheridon's ESPN blog update on the silly Antonio Davis-Jalen Rose trade.

Quote:

One possible rerouting destination for Davis could be Dallas, where the Mavericks are always looking for another big body to use against Tim Duncan in a possible second-round playoff matchup. Davis is capable of guarding any of the league's best big men, and his presence on the Mavericks would ensure they wouldn't have to go into such a series relying exclusively on DeSagana Diop, Erick Dampier and DJ Mbenga as their center rotation.

Dallas, which inquired about Davis earlier this season when there was talk the Knicks might release him, is one of the few teams that could make a straight-up deal for Davis, by offering Keith Van Horn's expiring $15.7 million contract, but Toronto would want a sweetener in order to pull the trigger. The Mavericks cannot trade their 2006 pick because they sent their 2005 pick to Utah and still owe Golden State their 2007 pick (protected 1-7).

Five-ofan · 02-05-2006, 02:46 PM

Wtf If we trade KVH for him i will cry. Im not a big kvh fan but he can actually play and he also has the expiring contract. Toronto would want a sweetner for that trade? How the hell sweet do they want it to get. That is like saying you need a sweetner to eat sugar. Sheridan has always been an idiot but this is just a new level.

grndmstr_c · 02-05-2006, 02:52 PM

Davis has been the definition of suck this year, and we're going to have to sweeten the deal with a pick? Give me a break.

Drbio · 02-05-2006, 02:55 PM

How does this guy hold a job?

aexchange · 02-05-2006, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Davis has been the definition of suck this year, and we're going to have to sweeten the deal with a pick? Give me a break.

so has van horn for the most part. i agree that the mavs wouldnt put in a sweetner for a davis deal, but i could very easily see them trading van horn for davis straight up.

Drbio · 02-05-2006, 03:23 PM

If nothing else, Davis could apply six hard NBA quality fouls on select foes.

aexchange · 02-05-2006, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drbio

If nothing else, Davis could apply six hard NBA quality fouls on select foes.

definately, and i think the mavs are going more and more to a pistons model of building a team. stock as many quality big men as you can get and build around a core group of players. with stackhouse in the game from the bench, you don't need many additional scorers to compliment stack/dirk/terry/jho. we've got plenty of firepower.

Jet Terry · 02-05-2006, 03:40 PM

Diop and Dampier can do what Davis does. I don't see this trade help Dallas at all. Van Horn's playoff performances might be the only reason this happens. Still Van Horn's contract should be able to get a better overpaid player than that.

grndmstr_c · 02-05-2006, 03:42 PM

Keith had a very forgettable December, but he's played much better of late, and even including his slump he's been a step above Davis, who's numbers (including his defensive PER and +/-) have been putrid. Maybe you think he's a better fit, and has one last 3-4 month stretch in him if used properly, in which case I can agree it's not out of the question a straight trade could happen and could be a good thing for the team. It's just ludicrous to think the Mavs should be expected to sweeten that sort of deal, though. If Toronto wants more, let them get it from someone else.

dude1394 · 02-05-2006, 05:13 PM

I don't see how davis helps at all unless he's going to replace damp/diop. With those two the center minutes are done.

Keith is fine for what he's asked to do, come in stretch the D a little bit, body up some folks. He's not asked to come in a be a monster on the glass or anything like that.

If his shot is close to on he's extremly valuable and can win games for us, if not, you just hope he keeps hustling and AJ won't give him many minutes. He's currently what 9th man or so? I just don't understand the gnashing about a guy who may get less than 10 minutes in the playoffs.

Dortmund · 02-05-2006, 05:53 PM

Crap! I did not know we traded our 2007 pick. That draft is widely considered as one of the best in a long time. WE NEED A PICK!!!

Jet Terry · 02-05-2006, 06:02 PM

No we don't. The players we have are already not being able to get enough minutes.

alby · 02-05-2006, 06:06 PM

yeah we need some picks.. for sure

Jet Terry · 02-05-2006, 06:10 PM

Yeah having Harris, Daniels, Howard, Dirk, Diop, Mbenga, and Powell isn't enough? I don't see how a pick would help us.

Dortmund · 02-05-2006, 07:48 PM

I dont see how it would hurt us

jayC · 02-05-2006, 07:48 PM

Davis averages a meager 5 points and 4 rebounds a game. If the mavs didn't have a quality one two punch center than I would do it. However, the mavs have a great one two punch at center clearly the answer is no. Otherwise I don't see him making much of an impact.

Locked_Up_Tonight · 02-05-2006, 08:36 PM

I would do it.

Here's the number 1 reason why I would do it: Antonio Davis can play center. So when Diop/Dampier aren't in the game... Dirk is not our center. Dirkj should not the Mavs center. Ever. Dirk should be a rebounder, weakside shot blocker, and offensive weapon. But he should never be asked to play center. Acquiring Davis will ensure that there will always be a center on the court.

That is a good thing.

Murphy3 · 02-05-2006, 08:48 PM

If you don't have Diop or Damp in the game, I'd assume that AJ wouldn't want to have a center in the game so Davis wouldn't be the option even if available.

Sure, there's the very rare occasion in which both would be in foul trouble, but how often does that happen?

Speedy · 02-05-2006, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Dallas, which inquired about Davis earlier this season when there was talk the Knicks might release him

I could see Dallas having interest back then, before the season started. At that time, Davis would have been great insurance in case Diop didn't work out. I don't see the point now. Especially if it cost the Mavs KVB and/or picks.

Eman · 02-06-2006, 10:10 AM

"One possible rerouting destination for Davis could be Dallas, where the Mavericks are always looking for another big body to use against Tim Duncan in a possible second-round playoff matchup. Davis is capable of guarding any of the league's best big men, and his presence on the Mavericks would ensure they wouldn't have to go into such a series relying exclusively on DeSagana Diop, Erick Dampier and DJ Mbenga as their center rotation.

Dallas, which inquired about Davis earlier this season when there was talk the Knicks might release him, is one of the few teams that could make a straight-up deal for Davis, by offering Keith Van Horn's expiring $15.7 million contract, but Toronto would want a sweetener in order to pull the trigger. The Mavericks cannot trade their 2006 pick because they sent their 2005 pick to Utah and still owe Golden State their 2007 pick (protected 1-7)."

WHAT A GREAT ADDITION TO OUR FRONT LINE ANTONIO DAVIS WOULD BE!

What do y'all think?

Eman · 02-06-2006, 10:34 AM

The article said that Toronto might just release Davis, if so, we could pick him up and keep Van Horn and use him as part of our center combo with Damp/Diop....the three D's.

bobatundi · 02-06-2006, 10:44 AM

I'd be all for picking him up off waivers, but wouldn't trade KVB for him, even though I'm far from the biggest KVB fan in the world. Van Horn is our only viable backup PF--Powell's not ready, none of our centers are versatile enough to play PF, and I don't think we'd get far in the playoffs pulling a Phoenix and going with someone like J-Ho at PF.

If we did get Davis on the cheap, not sure who I'd want to waive though...I'd say Pavel, as I really don't see that guy ever amounting to anything...but I suspect it'd be Powell, which would make me sad, 'cause I love the ACC.

MFFL · 02-06-2006, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayC

Davis averages a meager 5 points and 4 rebounds a game.

KVH only averages 9 and 4. We could EASILY replace Softee's 4 extra points and Davis is a much better and much more rugged defender. We need a banger to back up Dirk, not Dirk-lite. So Davis would be our backup PF and get a few minutes at center. And he averages almost FIVE boards a game not four (in 20 mintues per game).

If we only had to give a 2nd rounder or so then I would do it INSTANTLY. A player like PJ Brown or Davis would be the missing piece of the puzzle for us. Obviously I would prefer Brown but he isn't available since the Hornets are trying to be 1st round playoff fodder.

twistaeffect2004 · 02-06-2006, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFFL

KVH only averages 9 and 4. We could EASILY replace Softee's 4 extra points and Davis is a much better and much more rugged defender. We need a banger to back up Dirk, not Dirk-lite. So Davis would be our backup PF and get a few minutes at center. And he averages almost FIVE boards a game not four (in 20 mintues per game).

If we only had to give a 2nd rounder or so then I would do it INSTANTLY. A player like PJ Brown or Davis would be the missing piece of the puzzle for us. Obviously I would prefer Brown but he isn't available since the Hornets are trying to be 1st round playoff fodder.

I agree with you, I think Davis would be a nice peice of the puzzle here. I think he compliments Dirks game very well, he obviously brings the good interior defense off the bench, and he can still hit the mid range shot when left open. Davis also brings that veteran presence, who has been through the playoff wars of the past.

KVH has played well since he was traded here, better than I thought he would personally. BUT, like you said, he is Dirk lite. I think it would greatly benefit the Mavs to have a more defensive minded, do the dirty work type of player to fill in for Dirk off the bench. Which is why i'm also in favor of bringing in a P.J. Brown, or even better, a Reggie Evans.

With that said though, I really do the think the Mavs are dead set about breaking up this team right now. I think they are afraid that the chemistry which has slowly developed since being eliminated last year is too important.

We'll see. It seems the Mavericks can never go through a Trade Deadline without making some noise.

dude1394 · 02-06-2006, 01:05 PM

KVH and dirk only play together for a small amount of time. If Davis came in for dirk the lineup would be...

Dampier, Davis, Josh, Stack, Devin. Only stack can hit an outside shot. I think it's silly.

V2M · 02-06-2006, 01:23 PM

KVH is a nice insurance policy for Dirk. We can't just lose him for someone like Davis. If Davis is waived and we can pick him for nothing like we did with Grif, I say go for it. May be we could just waive Rawle Marshall and get him. But trading KVH for Davis and that they're expecting a sweetener on top, I say that's way too absurd to even waste our board's bandwidth!

As the general consensus on this board and seemingly with the Mavs management too, we should just stick to trades that're clear upgrades and not just marginal ones, due to chemistry reasons.

MFFL · 02-06-2006, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

KVH and dirk only play together for a small amount of time. If Davis came in for dirk the lineup would be...

Dampier, Davis, Josh, Stack, Devin. Only stack can hit an outside shot. I think it's silly.

And how many minutes do we put out a lineup of PURE second stringers? All we would have to do is rearrange our substitution patterns to have two outside shooters out there at once (Dirk, Terry, or Stack).

Davis fills a role that we need more than Kitten does.

MFFL · 02-06-2006, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V2M

KVH is a nice insurance policy for Dirk. We can't just lose him for someone like Davis. If Davis is waived and we can pick him for nothing like we did with Grif, I say go for it. May be we could just waive Rawle Marshall and get him. But trading KVH for Davis and that they're expecting a sweetener on top, I say that's way too absurd to even waste our board's bandwidth!

Wasted bandwidth? Its an important topic to several of us - if you think it is such a waste then quit adding your comments to the thread. >>>THAT<<< would save bandwidth.

Kitten is NOT a insurance policy for Dirk - if Dirk goes out for a significant amount of time then we would struggle to win half our games, with or without Kitten.

The ONLY reason IMO that the Mavs WOULDN'T do the trade is chemistry. We are on a roll and there is good cause to believe that we wouldn't make a deal to upset that chemistry. But we were on a nice run last year and we added Kitten so there is precedent for making moves with the end of the bench types.

And Davis would never come here if one of our frontcourt players doesn't leave. Why would he? He's a solid rotation player and deserves to get 20 minutes per game. He won't get that in Dallas if Kitten is still on the roster.

dude1394 · 02-06-2006, 02:31 PM

He won't get 20 minutes no matter who is on the roster imo.

V2M · 02-06-2006, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFFL

Wasted bandwidth? Its an important topic to several of us - if you think it is such a waste then quit adding your comments to the thread. >>>THAT<<< would save bandwidth.

Kitten is NOT a insurance policy for Dirk - if Dirk goes out for a significant amount of time then we would struggle to win half our games, with or without Kitten.

The ONLY reason IMO that the Mavs WOULDN'T do the trade is chemistry. We are on a roll and there is good cause to believe that we wouldn't make a deal to upset that chemistry. But we were on a nice run last year and we added Kitten so there is precedent for making moves with the end of the bench types.

And Davis would never come here if one of our frontcourt players doesn't leave. Why would he? He's a solid rotation player and deserves to get 20 minutes per game. He won't get that in Dallas if Kitten is still on the roster.

The insinuation of Toronto expecting KVH and a 1st round Pick for Davis is what I considered too absurd to even discuss. The way I put it was more a figure of speech than what I really meant. I didn't mean to suggest that this was a silly thread where everyone's wasting bandwidth. I'd never say that. Regardless, sorry for the confusion!

Back on topic, KVH is a 6'11" PF who can handle the ball a bit, take it to the rack or shoot the outside 3. He's also a decent rebounder. His defense and untimely turnovers are frustrating but I do feel that if ever Dirk's out for a month or so, we'll win many more games with him than with Davis.

MFFL · 02-06-2006, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V2M

The insinuation of Toronto expecting KVH and a 1st round Pick for Davis is what I considered too absurd to even discuss. The way I put it was more a figure of speech than what I really meant. I didn't mean to suggest that this was a silly thread where everyone's wasting bandwidth. I'd never say that. Regardless, sorry for the confusion!

OK doke. I just read two straight quotes that said "silly" and "waste of bandwidth" and it got my hackles up a little.

But the upgrade from Kitten to Davis is worth a second round pick. Heck, I would give up a first if Toronto would send us their second.

Quote:

Originally Posted by V2M

Back on topic, KVH is a 6'11" PF who can handle the ball a bit, take it to the rack or shoot the outside 3. He's also a decent rebounder. His defense and untimely turnovers are frustrating but I do feel that if ever Dirk's out for a month or so, we'll win many more games with him than with Davis.

Sure if you IGNORE the fact that Kitten is AWFUL at the end of games. He makes bad decisions. Does Kitten play when the game is on the line anymore? If the coach doesn't trust him then he really isn't much of an asset.

Davis gives us more of the things we would need to win a championship. In the playoffs, he would get some defensive calls due to his tough reputation and veteran status - do you think Diop is going to get a fair shake? I sure don't. And considering how Kitten has wilted under pressure this season can we REALLY expect him to give us anything in the playoffs?

So if Damp and Diop are in foul trouble in late in game 7 of round 2 against the Spurs, what lineup do you want? Kitten at PF and Dirk at center or Davis at center and Dirk at PF? Put me down for the latter.

V2M · 02-06-2006, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFFL

OK doke. I just read two straight quotes that said "silly" and "waste of bandwidth" and it got my hackles up a little.

But the upgrade from Kitten to Davis is worth a second round pick. Heck, I would give up a first if Toronto would send us their second.

Sure if you IGNORE the fact that Kitten is AWFUL at the end of games. He makes bad decisions. Does Kitten play when the game is on the line anymore? If the coach doesn't trust him then he really isn't much of an asset.

Davis gives us more of the things we would need to win a championship. In the playoffs, he would get some defensive calls due to his tough reputation and veteran status - do you think Diop is going to get a fair shake? I sure don't. And considering how Kitten has wilted under pressure this season can we REALLY expect him to give us anything in the playoffs?

So if Damp and Diop are in foul trouble in late in game 7 of round 2 against the Spurs, what lineup do you want? Kitten at PF and Dirk at center or Davis at center and Dirk at PF? Put me down for the latter.

In the scenario that you described above, I'd probably pick the latter too. But by then, it's quite likely KVH would have helped us win a game or two with his offense. Also, with him on the floor, the defense spreads and makes it easier for others to drive to the hoop. Apart from Jet & Dirk, KVH is the only guy who can reliably knock that outside shot. We can't afford to lose him unless it's a clear upgrade of a trade is what I'm saying. For someone like Pierce, I'd say send him packing in a NY second. But for Davis, I don't think so.

Btw, how many playoff games have we seen when the Spurs were saved by 3pt shooters such as Kerr, Horry, Barry, Turkoglu, etc.

dude1394 · 02-06-2006, 06:24 PM

If Damp/Diop are in foul trouble you throw in dj or have dirk play center. Davis doesn't get on the floor with this team imo.

EricaLubarsky · 02-06-2006, 08:57 PM

Dallas can always use a wiley vet, who may have some miles on his bones but who can bring attitude and savoir-faire. As long as his wife doesn't cause problems, Im all for this deal.

Oops, thats what I said about Doug Christie. That didn't work out too well...

MFFL · 02-07-2006, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

If Damp/Diop are in foul trouble you throw in dj or have dirk play center. Davis doesn't get on the floor with this team imo.

DJ? Lets be serious here. DJ is a next year or never player - he's not a contributor NOW.

And I agree that Davis would never get on the court IF NELLIE WAS STILL THE COACH. But Avery will always find a role for a warrior like Davis.

MavKikiNYC · 02-07-2006, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFFL

DJ? Lets be serious here. DJ is a next year or never player - he's not a contributor NOW.

And I agree that Davis would never get on the court IF NELLIE WAS STILL THE COACH. But Avery will always find a role for a warrior like Davis.

FWIW, and God knows I'm no defender of Nellie, but he DID find a role for Mark Bryant a couple of years back, whose game was very similar to what Davis' is now.

Under the right circumstances, I think Davis, or a player LIKE Davis could be very useful--much like Armstrong was last year as a backcourt spark . The problem with Davis (aside from his wife) is that you'd have to give up something potentially useful (KVH) to get something. I don't see why Toronto would do this without some kind of premium. And depending on what they'd want, I'm not sure his contribution would be worth it.