Official offseason 2013-2014 thread

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by MavsFTR

I'd probably place Derrick Rose ahead of him.

Yeah, you could go that way. I think Wall may be a bit more athletic while Rose is just smarter and more effective in how he uses his athleticism. But that's a narrow line to draw.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Yeah, you could go that way. I think Wall may be a bit more athletic while Rose is just smarter and more effective in how he uses his athleticism. But that's a narrow line to draw.

If we're talking about MVP Rose, it's really not that narrow of a line. That was leapes and bounds better than any of Wall's seasons, going by the eye test, advanced metrics, any kind of stats really, you name it. Again, when it comes to Wall, we're talking, we has to talk about potential. There is not much else to go on so far. And yes, i would probably agree with nowherman on this, Wall's ceiling is higher than Rose's was (now it is obvious with Rose's injury). He could potentially be just as lethal of a scorer, but a better passer, and maybe a better defender as well.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

If we're talking about MVP Rose, it's really not that narrow of a line. That was leapes and bounds better than any of Wall's seasons, going by the eye test, advanced metrics, any kind of stats really, you name it. Again, when it comes to Wall, we're talking, we has to talk about potential. There is not much else to go on so far. And yes, i would probably agree with nowherman on this, Wall's ceiling is higher than Rose's was (now it is obvious with Rose's injury). He could potentially be just as lethal of a scorer, but a better passer, and maybe a better defender as well.

That's not at all what I meant by "narrow line." I meant that it's difficult to try and parse out pure athleticism versus the ability to smartly use that athleticism.

I never said Wall was better than Rose at any point. I said I thought he might be more athletic.

[tsar]

I'd love to have John Wall on the Mavs! Here's a good article on him:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/gameon...ayton/2029285/

[mac222b]

Would take Wall in a heartbeat, but is there really anyway he'll come available to the Mavs? Won't Wizards just max him out?

[nowhereman]

Originally Posted by mac222b

Would take Wall in a heartbeat, but is there really anyway he'll come available to the Mavs? Won't Wizards just max him out?

double post

[nowhereman]

Originally Posted by mac222b

Would take Wall in a heartbeat, but is there really anyway he'll come available to the Mavs? Won't Wizards just max him out?

They will. It's a complete pipedream. It's only come up because there's actually people out there that don't think one of the league's youngest and finest point guards would be a good fit in Dallas.

[grndmstr_c]

I think LDub's just talking athleticism.

[sefant77]

[sefant77]

Save to say that Kaman is gone and James/DC because Dirk gonna ask/beg for a real PG

[sefant77]

And Wall isnt coming to here.

We are looking at Jack/Jennings or Lowry next season.

[Rick41]

Originally Posted by sefant77

And Wall isnt coming to here.

We are looking at Jack/Jennings or Lowry next season.

Calderon.

[Sportstudi]

Originally Posted by sefant77

And Wall isnt coming to here.

We are looking at Jack/Jennings or Lowry next season.

No thanks to Jennings. IMO he's more a shoot-first PG than a pass-first like JKidd was in his days as a Mav (no, I'm not comparing these two in terms of skills; it's pretty clear that JKidd is one of a kind). Yes, he's averaging 6.8 apg, but still. Jennings is also a horrific shooter (career average .393). Based on what I heard about him and his attitude it wouldn't surprise me if the game is one the line to watch him to go hero mode, missing the bucket instead of giving the ball to Dirk.

[MavsFTR]

I hope the FO turns their attention to the draft and free agents now.

[sefant77]

Ah yes, forgot about him.

Thats our four solid options for PG.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Ah yes, forgot about him.

Thats our four solid options for PG.

Or Evans. It would be terrible if we would max out Jennings. Wow, it's cringe-worthy to even think about it. Brrrr. Lowry is a good player, although Raps fans swear he has the exact same problem that we are bashing our PG's for. He can't make an entry pass to save his life, and a bit of a chucker. Calderon is the best passer of the bunch, but is old, and a terrible defender. I'd might roll with Jarrett Jack, i could see him average 15 and 6 here, with very good defense. And maybe he would be the cheapest? We could give the max to Pek, and maybe sign Igoudala too?

Jack
Igoudala
Marion
Dirk
Pekovic

Would be formidable. Maybe totally impossible cap-wise though.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

Or Evans. It would be terrible if we would max out Jennings. Wow, it's cringe-worthy to even think about it. Brrrr. Lowry is a good player, although Raps fans swear he has the exact same problem that we are bashing our PG's for. He can't make an entry pass to save his life, and a bit of a chucker. Calderon is the best passer of the bunch, but is old, and a terrible defender. I'd might roll with Jarrett Jack, i could see him average 15 and 6 here, with very good defense. And maybe he would be the cheapest? We could give the max to Pek, and maybe sign Igoudala too?

Jack
Igoudala
Marion
Dirk
Pekovic

Would be formidable. Maybe totally impossible cap-wise though.

What do you mean, maybe? That will just never happen. Minnesota will match any Pek offer, Iggy can get more from Denver, and that leaves us with Jack, who is looking at probably the biggest payday of his career this offseason. We could afford Jack and one of those guys, but certainly not both. Especially if we're keeping Marion.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by spreedom

What do you mean, maybe? That will just never happen. Minnesota will match any Pek offer, Iggy can get more from Denver, and that leaves us with Jack, who is looking at probably the biggest payday of his career this offseason. We could afford Jack and one of those guys, but certainly not both. Especially if we're keeping Marion.

Not a cap guru, sorry. I'm not sure Minny would match the max. for Pek. Remember, they have to extend Rubio in 2 years, and they doesn't strike me as a team that would field 3 max player, and paying all that luxury tax once they reupped Rubio. I think Igoudala could get around 10-11 million, and no more, we would be all right giving 8-9 to Mayo, why not 10 to Igoudala? How much cap space would we have if we trade Marion?

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

Not a cap guru, sorry. I'm not sure Minny would match the max. for Pek. Remember, they have to extend Rubio in 2 years, and they doesn't strike me as a team that would field 3 max player, and paying all that luxury tax once they reupped Rubio. I think Igoudala could get around 10-11 million, and no more, we would be all right giving 8-9 to Mayo, why not 10 to Igoudala? How much cap space would we have if we trade Marion?

Some teams really value a big man.

[markus1234]

I fear the next couple of seasons will look like this, even if we improve our roster

--------------- contenders

MEM
LAC
SAS
DEN
LAL
HOU
OKC

--------------- fighting for a playoff spot

MIN
POR
DAL
UTAH
SAC



Cuban and Donnie forget that other w-conf. teams are also improving.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by markus1234

I fear the next couple of seasons will look like this, even if we improve our roster

--------------- contenders

MEM
LAC
SAS
DEN
LAL
HOU
OKC

--------------- fighting for a playoff spot

MIN
POR
DAL
UTAH
SAC



Cuban and Donnie forget that other w-conf. teams are also improving.

Meh, I'll say that the only shoe-ins are SAS, OKC, DEN. LAC have to keep their team together before saying they will be in it next year. LAL have to do that, and fight the decline of primes and age. MEM and HOU are still a piece or two away from seriously contending for a title, but I do agree MEM will be in the playoffs. POR is a team I'd be more worried about before HOU and maybe even MEM at this point. MIN and UTAH have some good pieces and can get better quickly, which could pose some problems. SAC is just stuck in a spinning wheel of mediocrity. We could easily get back to regular playoff seasons and slowly get back to annual contenders.

[saclare]

I take Wall in a heart beat but he isn't available for another year, so he can't quite be discussed.

[sefant77]

we may have little bit more than 20m cap

Iggy and peko will go for at least 25m combined. Jack at least 5m....

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by sefant77

we may have little bit more than 20m cap

Iggy and peko will go for at least 25m combined. Jack at least 5m....

That's the hard truth. Unless we make a trade, Dirk, Carter, and Marion will be 35 million of our 58-60mill. That means we have about 25mill for the other 12 positions-- not 25mill for big-name free agents. If we were to sign Dwight or Iggy, we'd essentially have to give up on Mayo returning and fill the rest of the roster with 1-2 mill vet min or rookie min guys and I'm not sure that Dirk/J. Smith/Marion, Dirk/Howard/Marion, or Dirk/Marion/Iggy would be enough to really challenge in the West.

I'd love to pick up a big name FA this summer, but we really only have room for one max guy or two guys in the 8-10 range and a bunch of cheap talent.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

That's the hard truth. Unless we make a trade, Dirk, Carter, and Marion will be 35 million of our 58-60mill. That means we have about 25mill for the other 12 positions-- not 25mill for big-name free agents. If we were to sign Dwight or Iggy, we'd essentially have to give up on Mayo returning and fill the rest of the roster with 1-2 mill vet min or rookie min guys and I'm not sure that Dirk/J. Smith/Marion, Dirk/Howard/Marion, or Dirk/Marion/Iggy would be enough to really challenge in the West.

I'd love to pick up a big name FA this summer, but we really only have room for one max guy or two guys in the 8-10 range and a bunch of cheap talent.

I find that to be a very narrow view.

[adonis]

Take your pick.





Hell, I'd rather take this guy.

[MavsFTR]

If we stay with the same rank till the end of the season, which draft pick will we get and who do you think we would draft?

[vcmavs25]

Originally Posted by MavsFTR

If we stay with the same rank till the end of the season, which draft pick will we get and who do you think we would draft?

we trade the pick

[Rick41]

Originally Posted by vcmavs25

we trade the pick

Knowing the Donnie and Cuban, they always pull some stupid shit like that during draft day. (although last year got us Crowder)

Remember drafting Nick Fazekas, and Mo Ager? Dojo?

Remember trading Corey Brewer for a half eaten snickers bar?

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Rick41

Knowing the Donnie and Cuban, they always pull some stupid shit like that during draft day. (although last year got us Crowder)

Remember drafting Nick Fazekas, and Mo Ager? Dojo?

Remember trading Corey Brewer for a half eaten snickers bar?

I really wish you actually based the post on truth and logic.

Fazekas? Are you really going to complain about a second round pick?
Dojo? a very late first.
Ager? A 28th overall?
Brewer? We traded a talented guy that cost us nothing but couldnt grt off the bench for a second round draft pick.

So sad that instead of making real complaints (there are many) you decide to criticize them on th most irrelevant things they've done.

Remind me about the statistics on 25-30 picks? Remind me about how many second rounders actually stay in the league. I'd love to know how getting a bad player with bad draft position is a terrible decision.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by MavsFTR

If we stay with the same rank till the end of the season, which draft pick will we get and who do you think we would draft?

Giannis Adetokoubo if he falls to us. He won't, wouldn't be surprised if he goes top 5 in this draft. He, and another 5-6 prospect in the first round could really help us, some even short term. Of course it's always a gamble, when it comes to the draft. I think we don't have to send our pick this year to the team we owe one (don't remember which team), so i guess you don't send away a lottery pick, so we keep our draft pick.

[nowhereman]

Originally Posted by MavsFTR

If we stay with the same rank till the end of the season, which draft pick will we get and who do you think we would draft?

NBADraft.net has us taking Glenn Robinson III and I'd be okay with that. http://nbadraft.net/players/glenn-robinson-iii

Although I'm pretty sure we'll trade the pick.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by nowhereman

NBADraft.net has us taking Glenn Robinson III and I'd be okay with that. http://nbadraft.net/players/glenn-robinson-iii

Although I'm pretty sure we'll trade the pick.

I really like Robinson III and would be happy if we got him.

Really warming up to Gorgui Deng though and hope he's there for us!
He's literally improving from one game to the next and is showing the ability to pass from the high post as well as knock down 10-15 jumpers

[dude1394]

You make a point Erica...however the mavs have seldom given a durn about the draft, never seemed to take it seriously and always looking for home runs. Maybe that is the way to do it, but it seems short-sighted to me.

[nowhereman]

The Stats: you have a 37.5% chance of landing at least a solid roleplayer between 25-30 in the draft. http://82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm. But instead, let's look at what the Mavericks have done in the draft. http://www.basketball-reference.com/...DAL/draft.html. While the Mavs haven't really underperformed, they've really not done anything of real value in the draft since Don was still here.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by nowhereman

The Stats: you have a 37.5% chance of landing at least a solid roleplayer between 25-30 in the draft. http://82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm. But instead, let's look at what the Mavericks have done in the draft. http://www.basketball-reference.com/...DAL/draft.html. While the Mavs haven't really underperformed, they've really not done anything of real value in the draft since Don was still here.

17th (where we drafted Zeller) - has a 45% chance of being a bust. We traded him for Cunningham, Crowder and James-- which I think increases our odds.*
25th (where DoJo was drafted) - 65% chance that you won't even get a backup.
28th (where Ager was drafted) - 80% chance that you won't even get a quality backup
29th (where we drafted J.Ho) - has a 75% chance of being a bust and he was an allstar
34th (where Fazekas was drafted) - 85% of failure
51st (where we drafted Foster) - has a 90% chance of being no more than a towel waver.

Considering the odds, I wouldn't say that we've been terrible at all. We're certainly not elite, but I wouldn't say that our draft was terrible because we didn't defy the odds. Mullens for Roddy was a decent trade. Zeller for Cunningham, Crowder and James was a good deal.

[nowhereman]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

17th (where we drafted Zeller) - has a 45% chance of being a bust. We traded him for Cunningham, Crowder and James-- which I think increases our odds.*
25th (where DoJo was drafted) - 65% chance that you won't even get a backup.
28th (where Ager was drafted) - 80% chance that you won't even get a quality backup
29th (where we drafted J.Ho) - has a 75% chance of being a bust and he was an allstar
34th (where Fazekas was drafted) - 85% of failure
51st (where we drafted Foster) - has a 90% chance of being no more than a towel waver.

Considering the odds, I wouldn't say that we've been terrible at all. We're certainly not elite, but I wouldn't say that our draft was terrible because we didn't defy the odds. Mullens for Roddy was a decent trade. Zeller for Cunningham, Crowder and James was a good deal.

Right - I agree that they have been in crappy drafting positions and it's hard to hit on a player. I fully supported the strategy at the time. It's still frustrating that guys like Glen Davis, Greivis Vasquez, Chandler Parsons, Paul Millsap, Taj Gibson, DaJuan Blair, Danny Green, Marc Gasol, etc. have been getting picked up after our selections, but there are a ton of other teams that passed on those guys as well.

I'll hold off on whether the Zeller pick was a good deal. It depends on what you're looking for (a single near-star player, a long term project, a couple of solid roleplayers, etc.).

[sefant77]

We traded Brewer to erase his guaranteed salary so we can throw a max contract around....

[sefant77]

I think Paul will stay of course. Dwight will stay or sign with Houston (im smelling something crazy and Dwight tells Morey he signs if he is able to switch Asik with Josh Smith and sign Morrow (the two best buddies of Dwight). Competing in Houston with his buddies or being Kobes bitch in LA...i can see Dwight doing this.

Forget Peko. Wolves wanna keep him because they have to make the playoffs or Love is gone when his contract ends. I also see the Blazers throwing huge money at Peko (they offered Hibbert max last summer). I dont want Peko with such a huge price tag with Gortat/Okafor/Cousins/Bogut available in 2014.

So we have then the 11m+ FA (Iggy, Smith, Peko) and the 6-9m guys (Calderon, Mayo, Jack, Jennings). Sign one of each group and do next summer the same, filling the remaining two starting five spots with solid guys (Granger, Gortat, Deng, Bogut, Cousins, Okafor, Lowry etc).

Try to keep Wright and Morrow.

PF like Millsap, Jefferson or West we do not need because they cant play SF or C.

[mac222b]

The final indignity of this shitstorm of a season will come when everyone realizes OKC is picking 8 spots AHEAD of Dallas. Fun times!