Dallas-Mavs.com Forums
Old 06-06-2014, 12:46 AM   #41
mac222b
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,549
mac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spreedom View Post
Yeah, I don't mean this in an offensive way at all but based on those statements I can tell you're pretty unfamiliar with his game. He's a great rim protector... in that sense, to me blocked shots have become very overrated. For example, DeAndre Jordan is a fantastic shot blocker, but as a rim protector he's very average... he doesn't defend well in space. Gets the good-looking plays but doesn't always rotate properly or use his body defensively. He allows the same shooting percentage at the rim as David Lee, who I think many here would agree is a terrible interior defender.

Okafor is one of those guys, kind of like Al Horford (and a good comparison defensively would be Jason Collins of about 10-12 years ago). He doesn't block a ton of shots, but he alters tons of them and defends the post exceptionally well. It's almost an intangible thing, but every team he's been a part of gets almost magically better defensively when he is on the floor... there isn't really a stat for that, but he is smart, has good footwork, rarely gets caught out of position and stays active even if/when he isn't going to be able to make an attempt at a block. He's basically a shorter, slightly more agile version of Hibbert that takes better shots, finishes better inside, and rebounds a lot better.

If Okafor was fully healthy, he'd probably be my #1 free agent, assuming you don't get any of the superstars that are potentially on the market this summer. I'm guessing he'll sign a one-year deal with a team that can offer him the most playing time so he can show that he's fully recovered from his injury. I'd love for the Mavs to get him on that one-year deal to see what he's got left... if he isn't going to be the same player again, we can always waive or trade him near the deadline for long-term deals, and if he's fully recovered, I'd love to keep him around past next year.

I cannot ing wait for the off-season.
Great post Spree. I agree with just about all of this. I think Okafor would fit in really well with this group and if healthy might be option 1a this summer as you suggested.
mac222b is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 06-06-2014, 03:13 AM   #42
Floppy
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 167
Floppy is a glorious beacon of lightFloppy is a glorious beacon of lightFloppy is a glorious beacon of lightFloppy is a glorious beacon of lightFloppy is a glorious beacon of lightFloppy is a glorious beacon of lightFloppy is a glorious beacon of light
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MavzMan View Post
I guess I haven't watched much of Okafor and don't really know his game that well. To me, he's another undersized C at 6'10" and 255 lbs but he's also not that athletic and plays under the rim. His blocks are average at best and his points has steadily gone down the last 6 years. Granted he's 30 years old which could be considered in his prime especially for a center, but you really gotta convince me he's worth $10 mill a year after all that and coming off a very serious injury where he didn't plan a single game. I was actually thinking more along the lines of Sam Dalembert money honestly, like $3-5 mill.
He's not 30 years old ..He will be 32 years old at the start of the season after missing a full year ....It could be disastrous if the Mavs paid Okafor $10 Million ...Sure if he came for $3-4 Million you might take the risk but at $10 Million if it doesn't work out we are screwed .
Floppy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2014, 07:46 AM   #43
Underdog
Moderator
 
Underdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
Underdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Floppy View Post
He's not 30 years old ..He will be 32 years old at the start of the season after missing a full year ....It could be disastrous if the Mavs paid Okafor $10 Million ...Sure if he came for $3-4 Million you might take the risk but at $10 Million if it doesn't work out we are screwed .
You guys seem to be missing the point - NOBODY is going to pay a recently-injured Okafor $10m, but if healthy, he might still be able to give you the production of a $10m player... The guy could be an excellent bargain if signed cheap.
__________________

These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.

Last edited by Underdog; 06-06-2014 at 07:51 AM.
Underdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2014, 08:07 AM   #44
spreedom
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hudson, WI
Posts: 3,938
spreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Oy
spreedom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2014, 10:32 AM   #45
mac222b
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,549
mac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog View Post
You guys seem to be missing the point - NOBODY is going to pay a recently-injured Okafor $10m, but if healthy, he might still be able to give you the production of a $10m player... The guy could be an excellent bargain if signed cheap.
I still think he gets a "make good" one year deal in the 5m range. Similar to the *gulp* Kaman "deal".

I think if the mavs go the Okafor route, and it seems like a pretty strong possibility given the nature of Gortat, Sanders, Asik, Chandler, Varajao situations, then MBT would have to hedge with a 3rd capable FA Center I would think. In other words sign Okafor for 5-6m and use the savings on backup Center and PF(Jordan Hill?) and it just about equals Gortat straight up.

I think Brandon Wright is trade fodder to give the team more trade and roster flexibility.
I wont be bummed if Wright is back, i like his game in medium to small doses, but I would much rather see Wright and Ellington go before Calderon.
mac222b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2014, 10:45 AM   #46
dude1394
Guru
 
dude1394's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
dude1394 has a reputation beyond reputedude1394 has a reputation beyond reputedude1394 has a reputation beyond reputedude1394 has a reputation beyond reputedude1394 has a reputation beyond reputedude1394 has a reputation beyond reputedude1394 has a reputation beyond reputedude1394 has a reputation beyond reputedude1394 has a reputation beyond reputedude1394 has a reputation beyond reputedude1394 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spreedom View Post
Yeah, I don't mean this in an offensive way at all but based on those statements I can tell you're pretty unfamiliar with his game. He's a great rim protector... in that sense, to me blocked shots have become very overrated. For example, DeAndre Jordan is a fantastic shot blocker, but as a rim protector he's very average... he doesn't defend well in space. Gets the good-looking plays but doesn't always rotate properly or use his body defensively. He allows the same shooting percentage at the rim as David Lee, who I think many here would agree is a terrible interior defender.

Okafor is one of those guys, kind of like Al Horford (and a good comparison defensively would be Jason Collins of about 10-12 years ago). He doesn't block a ton of shots, but he alters tons of them and defends the post exceptionally well. It's almost an intangible thing, but every team he's been a part of gets almost magically better defensively when he is on the floor... there isn't really a stat for that, but he is smart, has good footwork, rarely gets caught out of position and stays active even if/when he isn't going to be able to make an attempt at a block. He's basically a shorter, slightly more agile version of Hibbert that takes better shots, finishes better inside, and rebounds a lot better.

If Okafor was fully healthy, he'd probably be my #1 free agent, assuming you don't get any of the superstars that are potentially on the market this summer. I'm guessing he'll sign a one-year deal with a team that can offer him the most playing time so he can show that he's fully recovered from his injury. I'd love for the Mavs to get him on that one-year deal to see what he's got left... if he isn't going to be the same player again, we can always waive or trade him near the deadline for long-term deals, and if he's fully recovered, I'd love to keep him around past next year.

I cannot ing wait for the off-season.
Interesting... I always wonder about Centers willingness to step up and be the "linebacker" on the court, calling out and making sure everyone is engaged. I knew that Tyson did it because I could hear it at the arena. I'm pretty sure Haywood did NOT do it because he couldn't even be bothered to move off of the free-throw line.

But an active center, who is smart and really takes the challenge of leadership seriously would be interesting.
__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
dude1394 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2014, 01:42 PM   #47
tap2390
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Enemy territory (SA)
Posts: 3,287
tap2390 has a reputation beyond reputetap2390 has a reputation beyond reputetap2390 has a reputation beyond reputetap2390 has a reputation beyond reputetap2390 has a reputation beyond reputetap2390 has a reputation beyond reputetap2390 has a reputation beyond reputetap2390 has a reputation beyond reputetap2390 has a reputation beyond reputetap2390 has a reputation beyond reputetap2390 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I think we should push hard for PJ Tucker. Too often Mavs opponents two-step in the lane and no one does anything about it. While a center as your enforcer is wonderful, having a tough-minded, excellent defensive wing is just as big IMO.
__________________
tap2390 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2014, 02:18 PM   #48
EricaLubarsky
Inactive.
 
EricaLubarsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 41,686
EricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tap2390 View Post
I think we should push hard for PJ Tucker. Too often Mavs opponents two-step in the lane and no one does anything about it. While a center as your enforcer is wonderful, having a tough-minded, excellent defensive wing is just as big IMO.
Don't know how effectively he can play SF, but he'd be a nice SG if we are comfortable playing Ellis at the PG.
EricaLubarsky is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2014, 02:31 AM   #49
yahyes
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,379
yahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud of
Default

I think the Okafor spot could fit in fine if we let Bernard James go. Then have the same rotation of Dalembert/Wright/ Blair. Okafor is a combo big man really. He can sorta shoot mid-range if healthy. But that's where he can be last guy on the bench ready for action. This this scenario IMO would happen if we can't draft the best center possible. Or if Gortat chooses to stay in Washington. I don't see going after Okafor as a quick signing when offseason starts.

As for the mentions of PJ tucker...
I'd prefer giving money to Gordon Hayward instead. Even Ariza if that were the case.

Last edited by yahyes; 06-07-2014 at 02:32 AM.
yahyes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2014, 08:44 AM   #50
spreedom
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hudson, WI
Posts: 3,938
spreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky View Post
Don't know how effectively he can play SF, but he'd be a nice SG if we are comfortable playing Ellis at the PG.
I don't know the numbers behind this, but from what I've seen Tucker's best matchup defensively is 3/4 combo types... and he can play SG on offense if needed. He's mostly going to be camping in the corners and waiting for open looks. Fits a huge need IYAM.


Quote:
Originally Posted by yahyes View Post
I think the Okafor spot could fit in fine if we let Bernard James go. Then have the same rotation of Dalembert/Wright/ Blair. Okafor is a combo big man really. He can sorta shoot mid-range if healthy. But that's where he can be last guy on the bench ready for action. This this scenario IMO would happen if we can't draft the best center possible. Or if Gortat chooses to stay in Washington. I don't see going after Okafor as a quick signing when offseason starts.
If Okafor is healthy, he is instantly the best center on the roster. Not some deep bench player.


Quote:
Originally Posted by yahyes View Post
As for the mentions of PJ tucker...
I'd prefer giving money to Gordon Hayward instead. Even Ariza if that were the case.
Hayward isn't much of a defender and his shooting percentages have dropped across the board every year... sure, he'd get better looks playing next to Dirk and Ellis, but he's still mostly a volume scorer at this point. That doesn't fill much of a need. Tucker is basically the opposite... plays great defense and is a killer from the corners. And he'll probably cost about half of the guaranteed money that Hayward will.

Last edited by spreedom; 06-07-2014 at 08:46 AM.
spreedom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2014, 11:17 AM   #51
EricaLubarsky
Inactive.
 
EricaLubarsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 41,686
EricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spreedom View Post
I don't know the numbers behind this, but from what I've seen Tucker's best matchup defensively is 3/4 combo types... and he can play SG on offense if needed. He's mostly going to be camping in the corners and waiting for open looks. Fits a huge need IYAM.
He's 6'5" and both his best PER and his best NET PER come from playing the 2, albeit with a small sample size. When he plays the 3, he's outplayed quite a bit and has a negative +/- while playing there.

Interestingly enough, his only positive +/- come when he plays the SG or PF positions.
EricaLubarsky is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2014, 02:10 PM   #52
spreedom
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hudson, WI
Posts: 3,938
spreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky View Post
He's 6'5" and both his best PER and his best NET PER come from playing the 2, albeit with a small sample size. When he plays the 3, he's outplayed quite a bit and has a negative +/- while playing there.

Interestingly enough, his only positive +/- come when he plays the SG or PF positions.

I don't think PER is a very reliable way to evaluate defensive specialists. He's often matched up with the best scorers in the league... of course he's usually going to be outplayed. The key is that he makes his matchup work hard to get his points. He played the overwhelming majority of his minutes at the three and I think he's an All-Defense caliber player at that position.

Bottom line, I'm 100% in favor of giving Tucker a pretty big contract this summer (I'd go as high as $8M per I think, though I don't think I'd be thrilled about it) because he REALLY fills a need for us.
spreedom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2014, 02:53 PM   #53
EricaLubarsky
Inactive.
 
EricaLubarsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 41,686
EricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spreedom View Post
I don't think PER is a very reliable way to evaluate defensive specialists. He's often matched up with the best scorers in the league... of course he's usually going to be outplayed. The key is that he makes his matchup work hard to get his points. He played the overwhelming majority of his minutes at the three and I think he's an All-Defense caliber player at that position.

Bottom line, I'm 100% in favor of giving Tucker a pretty big contract this summer (I'd go as high as $8M per I think, though I don't think I'd be thrilled about it) because he REALLY fills a need for us.
You can also look at opponent PER and his best position is again SG, followed by PF. Probably has great size for the SG and exceptional quickness for the PF, but not really either against SFs.

I still like the guy, I just think he may be a better guard than forward.
EricaLubarsky is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2014, 02:57 PM   #54
spreedom
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hudson, WI
Posts: 3,938
spreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky View Post
You can also look at opponent PER and his best position is again SG, followed by PF. Probably has great size for the SG and exceptional quickness for the PF, but not really either against SFs.

I still like the guy, I just think he may be a better guard than forward.

spreedom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2014, 11:51 PM   #55
mac222b
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,549
mac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spreedom View Post
I don't think PER is a very reliable way to evaluate defensive specialists. He's often matched up with the best scorers in the league... of course he's usually going to be outplayed. The key is that he makes his matchup work hard to get his points. He played the overwhelming majority of his minutes at the three and I think he's an All-Defense caliber player at that position.

Bottom line, I'm 100% in favor of giving Tucker a pretty big contract this summer (I'd go as high as $8M per I think, though I don't think I'd be thrilled about it) because he REALLY fills a need for us.
I like Tucker too but 8M seems a little rich. He's already 29 and has only had one good 3pt.shooting season to go by. He improved from 31.4 to 38.7 last season.
mac222b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2014, 01:16 AM   #56
yahyes
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,379
yahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spreedom View Post
I don't know the numbers behind this, but from what I've seen Tucker's best matchup defensively is 3/4 combo types... and he can play SG on offense if needed. He's mostly going to be camping in the corners and waiting for open looks. Fits a huge need IYAM.




If Okafor is healthy, he is instantly the best center on the roster. Not some deep bench player.




Hayward isn't much of a defender and his shooting percentages have dropped across the board every year... sure, he'd get better looks playing next to Dirk and Ellis, but he's still mostly a volume scorer at this point. That doesn't fill much of a need. Tucker is basically the opposite... plays great defense and is a killer from the corners. And he'll probably cost about half of the guaranteed money that Hayward will.

Yah.. but you said the keyword "IF" about Okafur. Which means having him be a down the bench player wouldn't hurt to try for cheap.

Tucker isn't a starter. I see him merely as a role player. Mavs have enough of those already. He's also undersized for being 6'6... Which is also why I would prefer front office gave big money to Carmelo, Deng, Parsons, Hayward, or Ariza instead. Dallas clearly needs an starting SF who can help carry the load offensively.

Last edited by yahyes; 06-08-2014 at 01:17 AM.
yahyes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2014, 06:55 AM   #57
spreedom
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hudson, WI
Posts: 3,938
spreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mac222b View Post
I like Tucker too but 8M seems a little rich. He's already 29 and has only had one good 3pt.shooting season to go by. He improved from 31.4 to 38.7 last season.
Fair enough. I still want him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yahyes View Post
Yah.. but you said the keyword "IF" about Okafur. Which means having him be a down the bench player wouldn't hurt to try for cheap.
If Okafor isn't healthy, I don't want him. If he is healthy, I think he could play a huge role for us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yahyes View Post
Tucker isn't a starter. I see him merely as a role player. Mavs have enough of those already. He's also undersized for being 6'6... Which is also why I would prefer front office gave big money to Carmelo, Deng, Parsons, Hayward, or Ariza instead. Dallas clearly needs an starting SF who can help carry the load offensively.
I don't agree with this at all. We need a guy that can defend multiple positions and hit open shots. I don't want to blow most/all of our cap space on Melo or Deng. Parsons and Hayward are RFAs too, and both are going to get the max or close to it... and neither guy fills enough of a need for him to be worth it to us. And Ariza is staying in Washington.
spreedom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2014, 12:02 PM   #58
mac222b
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,549
mac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Ariza it is for me. Assuming Melo not an option.

Last edited by mac222b; 06-08-2014 at 12:03 PM.
mac222b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2014, 11:41 PM   #59
MavzMan
Golden Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,200
MavzMan has a brilliant futureMavzMan has a brilliant futureMavzMan has a brilliant futureMavzMan has a brilliant futureMavzMan has a brilliant futureMavzMan has a brilliant futureMavzMan has a brilliant futureMavzMan has a brilliant futureMavzMan has a brilliant futureMavzMan has a brilliant futureMavzMan has a brilliant future
Default

Watching the Spurs and Heat play in the finals just reaffirms how good these two teams really are. It's pretty amazing to see such high intensity through the entire game. I really think that either team would sweep any other team that made it to the finals. The Spurs are such a well rounded team with players stepping up big time. For the Heat, it's like 80% Lebron. He really pisses me off sometimes with his flopping and general attitude but I gotta give him respect for his amazing level of play and intensity.

If the Mavs are going to make a serious push for another championship before Dirk retires, we really need some very key players. I'm excited about the moves we make but I'm also nervous because we have some big holes to fill and some mismatching pieces currently.
MavzMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 12:16 AM   #60
yahyes
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,379
yahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MavzMan View Post
Watching the Spurs and Heat play in the finals just reaffirms how good these two teams really are. It's pretty amazing to see such high intensity through the entire game. I really think that either team would sweep any other team that made it to the finals. The Spurs are such a well rounded team with players stepping up big time. For the Heat, it's like 80% Lebron. He really pisses me off sometimes with his flopping and general attitude but I gotta give him respect for his amazing level of play and intensity.

If the Mavs are going to make a serious push for another championship before Dirk retires, we really need some very key players. I'm excited about the moves we make but I'm also nervous because we have some big holes to fill and some mismatching pieces currently.

Not to mention Dallas really challenged san antonio in the west. Which could make the Mavs 2nd best team in the west this season. Which also can mean a lot of our pieces need to comeback for another run at it. While adding 1 or 2 big contributors.

Carmelo needs to use his ETO and team up with our 2 man game. If not, there's always a number of valuable players available.
yahyes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 09:23 AM   #61
dirt_dobber
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Bee Cave, Texas
Posts: 3,236
dirt_dobber has a reputation beyond reputedirt_dobber has a reputation beyond reputedirt_dobber has a reputation beyond reputedirt_dobber has a reputation beyond reputedirt_dobber has a reputation beyond reputedirt_dobber has a reputation beyond reputedirt_dobber has a reputation beyond reputedirt_dobber has a reputation beyond reputedirt_dobber has a reputation beyond reputedirt_dobber has a reputation beyond reputedirt_dobber has a reputation beyond repute
Default

edit-

Last edited by dirt_dobber; 06-09-2014 at 11:50 AM.
dirt_dobber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 08:00 PM   #62
dmakk
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 45
dmakk is on a distinguished road
Default

I'd be happy if we could get Gortat and Ariza. I'd also hope the Mavs ask the Jazz about Kanter. He seems like one of those players that could excel in a better situation. He and Favors don't fit well IMO, and with Marvin Williams as a free agent, maybe they'd be interested in a Kanter for Wright swap.
dmakk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2014, 02:55 AM   #63
Floppy
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 167
Floppy is a glorious beacon of lightFloppy is a glorious beacon of lightFloppy is a glorious beacon of lightFloppy is a glorious beacon of lightFloppy is a glorious beacon of lightFloppy is a glorious beacon of lightFloppy is a glorious beacon of light
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mac222b View Post
Ariza it is for me. Assuming Melo not an option.
This
Floppy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2014, 10:26 AM   #64
EricaLubarsky
Inactive.
 
EricaLubarsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 41,686
EricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Melo is going to Houston, which means Parsons is available

I wouldn't put too much stock in Ariza/Gortat-- Wiz have historically been cheap, but they just went to the conference semis and have the ability to go over the cap to re-sign both.
EricaLubarsky is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2014, 10:39 AM   #65
BGMaverick9
Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,806
BGMaverick9 has a reputation beyond reputeBGMaverick9 has a reputation beyond reputeBGMaverick9 has a reputation beyond reputeBGMaverick9 has a reputation beyond reputeBGMaverick9 has a reputation beyond reputeBGMaverick9 has a reputation beyond reputeBGMaverick9 has a reputation beyond reputeBGMaverick9 has a reputation beyond reputeBGMaverick9 has a reputation beyond reputeBGMaverick9 has a reputation beyond reputeBGMaverick9 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky View Post
Melo is going to Houston, which means Parsons is available
Unless he is part of a sign-and-trade that sends him to New York
__________________
Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/BallinWithBryan/
BGMaverick9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2014, 03:44 PM   #66
hayth.james.g
Golden Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Dallas, tx
Posts: 1,067
hayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant future
Default

For me all of my "dream" scenarios for the Mavs this summer revolves around trading Calderon. I like the guy but I don't think he is the right fit on the floor with Ellis... and I choose 2013-14 Ellis > any version of Calderon.

I see Calderon as someone we might be able to trade to the Pacers in a deal for either Hibbert or Stephenson (sign and trade). Obviously, Stephenson probably isn't super popular pick at this point, but he has a high ceiling and plays solid D. Can he fill any minutes at the 3?

Overall this is where I am at as far as "hopeful" 2014-15 Mavs roster:

PG- Harris/Larkin
SG- Ellis/Carter/Ledo
SF- Deng (or Ariza)/Crowder/Marion
PF- Dirk/Wright/Marion
C- Hibbert (or Chandler/Gortat)/Dalembert

Okafur scares me too much right now. Only reason I trust Chandler more is because of his history of success medically in Dallas.

Anyways, any thoughts on the probability that the Mavs could trade Calderon this summer? I know he is a reliable passer/ball handler with elite 3 pt skills, but I just dont see his Defense working on the same team as Ellis. Harris + Deng/Ariza solidifies our defense on the perimeter and adding a Hibbert/Chandler changes our inside game tremendously.

Last edited by hayth.james.g; 06-12-2014 at 03:44 PM.
hayth.james.g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2014, 07:19 PM   #67
mac222b
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,549
mac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hayth.james.g View Post
For me all of my "dream" scenarios for the Mavs this summer revolves around trading Calderon. I like the guy but I don't think he is the right fit on the floor with Ellis... and I choose 2013-14 Ellis > any version of Calderon.

I see Calderon as someone we might be able to trade to the Pacers in a deal for either Hibbert or Stephenson (sign and trade). Obviously, Stephenson probably isn't super popular pick at this point, but he has a high ceiling and plays solid D. Can he fill any minutes at the 3?

Overall this is where I am at as far as "hopeful" 2014-15 Mavs roster:

PG- Harris/Larkin
SG- Ellis/Carter/Ledo
SF- Deng (or Ariza)/Crowder/Marion
PF- Dirk/Wright/Marion
C- Hibbert (or Chandler/Gortat)/Dalembert

Okafur scares me too much right now. Only reason I trust Chandler more is because of his history of success medically in Dallas.

Anyways, any thoughts on the probability that the Mavs could trade Calderon this summer? I know he is a reliable passer/ball handler with elite 3 pt skills, but I just dont see his Defense working on the same team as Ellis. Harris + Deng/Ariza solidifies our defense on the perimeter and adding a Hibbert/Chandler changes our inside game tremendously.
First off, welcome! Quality posts right off the bat. I think they'll dip their toes in cautiously to gauge Calderons worth. But I doubt they're in any rush to trade him. I wouldn't be too keen on injury prone Harris as starting pg and T-Rex Larkin backing him up. Ellis is best used as a SG as much as possible.

I would like Ariza at SF- guards multiple positions, shoots the 3 better than and is healthier than Deng. I think prying Ariza or Gortat away from Washington is a long shot though. Either Deng or Ariza though would be upgrades from Marion at this point and both provide at least some of his defensive flexibility and presumably would improve our offense.

If Okafor is healthy he could represent incredible value and flexibility which are some things we know the MBT craves. Also, Okafor would be a great fit as well as he rebounds and moves laterally on defense. And he is by all accounts a great locker room guy and leader. In some ways only Sanders would be a better fit(on the court).

The best thing about this summer is all the flexibility we have right now. There could be two or three relatively safe signings at SF and C. Or there could be some blockbuster trade in the works. Nothing would surprise me. I think they will prize continuity this offseason and add to what's here. Wright, Larkin, Ellington and draft picks will probably be the moving pieces. Core of Dirk, Monta, Jose, Sam, Jae and hopefully Vince and Devin return. Marion and Blair I'm guessing move on. Add a couple draft picks best available SF, Center and swing SG/SF through trade and or FA and try to keep as much flexibility as possible going forward in case a star comes available.
mac222b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2014, 08:07 PM   #68
EricaLubarsky
Inactive.
 
EricaLubarsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 41,686
EricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Name looked suspiciously like a spammer/spider bot so I came in to check out what he said before banning him and I get a thoughtful, interesting post about the Mavs.
EricaLubarsky is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2014, 08:58 PM   #69
yahyes
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,379
yahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud ofyahyes has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky View Post
Melo is going to Houston, which means Parsons is available

I wouldn't put too much stock in Ariza/Gortat-- Wiz have historically been cheap, but they just went to the conference semis and have the ability to go over the cap to re-sign both.
I'd also consider Parsons.
yahyes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2014, 09:58 PM   #70
hayth.james.g
Golden Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Dallas, tx
Posts: 1,067
hayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky View Post
Name looked suspiciously like a spammer/spider bot so I came in to check out what he said before banning him and I get a thoughtful, interesting post about the Mavs.
Yeah evidently I made this account a few years back (most likely in a drunken stupor from one of my last nights in college). I tried to change my username but didn't find a spot and was itching to put my thoughts to paper. I have been a long time lurker here and have always enjoyed the discussions the community provides.

Anyways back to topic, thanks for your thoughts on Calderon and bringing up the point of Harris injury issues. I honestly had completely overlooked it. I am still crossing my fingers on Calderon. I just have serious reservations about our defense with both Ellis and Calderon on the court next year.

Last edited by hayth.james.g; 06-12-2014 at 10:02 PM.
hayth.james.g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2014, 11:55 AM   #71
Underdog
Moderator
 
Underdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
Underdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Lakers, Spurs, Mavericks want to sign Greg Monroe


Dallas Mavericks interested in Chris ‘Birdman’ Andersen
__________________

These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.

Last edited by Underdog; 06-17-2014 at 12:01 PM.
Underdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2014, 12:37 PM   #72
EricaLubarsky
Inactive.
 
EricaLubarsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 41,686
EricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond repute
Default

least we are looking at players that play the right position

pretty underwhelming talent there, but at least we're looking at the right positions.

Last edited by EricaLubarsky; 06-17-2014 at 12:39 PM.
EricaLubarsky is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2014, 01:26 PM   #73
spreedom
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hudson, WI
Posts: 3,938
spreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I actually think Monroe/Birdman would be a pretty nice platoon at the center spot next season... they could play a few minutes together per game, and if we upgraded our perimeter defense we could probably get away with the Dirk/Monroe combo in the frontcourt for 18-20 minutes per game too.

I'm definitely okay with Greg Monroe being a huge building block for our post-Dirk rosters.
spreedom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2014, 05:49 PM   #74
hayth.james.g
Golden Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Dallas, tx
Posts: 1,067
hayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spreedom View Post
I actually think Monroe/Birdman would be a pretty nice platoon at the center spot next season... they could play a few minutes together per game, and if we upgraded our perimeter defense we could probably get away with the Dirk/Monroe combo in the frontcourt for 18-20 minutes per game too.

I'm definitely okay with Greg Monroe being a huge building block for our post-Dirk rosters.
I like Monroe's game, but I think the cost will be too high. This coupled with our current need for defense indicates to me that its doubtful that we will be pursuing Monroe.
hayth.james.g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2014, 06:16 PM   #75
EricaLubarsky
Inactive.
 
EricaLubarsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 41,686
EricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Monroe is Brandan Wright v1.1
EricaLubarsky is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2014, 07:48 PM   #76
spreedom
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hudson, WI
Posts: 3,938
spreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond reputespreedom has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky View Post
Monroe is Brandan Wright v1.1
Except with much better, more sustained, more consistent success. Maybe they're similar looking players if you look at the stat sheets instead of the game footage, but there's a very big reason why Monroe can consistently play 30-35 MPG while Wright maxes out at about 20. And stylistically, they aren't very similar at all. Monroe is a finesse player who scores well on the block, who was a top-12 rebounder despite playing next to Drummond (#2 in the league in RPG) for the bulk of his minutes... and he's an excellent passer. Wright is an athlete first, second, and third. I'm sure their per-36 numbers are similar, but you have to take into account that Wright plays on a poor rebounding team and is almost exclusively playing against teams' second units.

To me, the only real similarities in the guys are that neither is a particularly strong defender or rim protector even though they're both pretty big guys. I don't see any correlation other than that. Do you really think Wright would be averaging 13/9 as a starter? I don't... not for a minute.

Last edited by spreedom; 06-17-2014 at 07:48 PM.
spreedom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2014, 09:48 PM   #77
Vinsanity
Golden Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,908
Vinsanity has a brilliant futureVinsanity has a brilliant futureVinsanity has a brilliant futureVinsanity has a brilliant futureVinsanity has a brilliant futureVinsanity has a brilliant futureVinsanity has a brilliant futureVinsanity has a brilliant futureVinsanity has a brilliant futureVinsanity has a brilliant futureVinsanity has a brilliant future
Default

Assuming we don't get Melo, even though I think we have a better chance than people think, because Houston and Chicago would both have to make some trades to even be able to sign him... But ideally I think we should go after Deng and try to trade for Tyson Chandler. That would instantly improve our defense and probably make us a top 4-6 team in the west. I'm not sure how trading for Chandler would work out financially because he's owed a lot of money this next season (like $15 mil), so hopefully that wouldn't affect our ability to sign Deng and still pay Dirk at least $10mil per.

Now with that being said, this is what I actually think will happen knowing our luck in free agency. We strike out on Melo, Deng, and Parsons (if we even go after him). The Knicks refuse to trade us Tyson, Washington overpays for Gortat so we don't get him, the Pacers end up keeping Hibbert, and some bad team overpays for Monroe and we don't get him either. So then we end up with Ariza (not bad but ehh) at SF and Emeka Okafor at center.
Vinsanity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2014, 10:23 PM   #78
Kenni7777
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1
Kenni7777 is on a distinguished road
Default

Larry sanders. Please trade for him
Kenni7777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2014, 10:29 PM   #79
hayth.james.g
Golden Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Dallas, tx
Posts: 1,067
hayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant futurehayth.james.g has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinsanity View Post
Assuming we don't get Melo, even though I think we have a better chance than people think, because Houston and Chicago would both have to make some trades to even be able to sign him... But ideally I think we should go after Deng and try to trade for Tyson Chandler. That would instantly improve our defense and probably make us a top 4-6 team in the west. I'm not sure how trading for Chandler would work out financially because he's owed a lot of money this next season (like $15 mil), so hopefully that wouldn't affect our ability to sign Deng and still pay Dirk at least $10mil per.

Now with that being said, this is what I actually think will happen knowing our luck in free agency. We strike out on Melo, Deng, and Parsons (if we even go after him). The Knicks refuse to trade us Tyson, Washington overpays for Gortat so we don't get him, the Pacers end up keeping Hibbert, and some bad team overpays for Monroe and we don't get him either. So then we end up with Ariza (not bad but ehh) at SF and Emeka Okafor at center.
I could definitely be happy with Ariza and Okafor (health permitting). I would like to see something creative done with Jose Calderon. I know others on the board have been somewhat skeptical about trading Calderon... I just don't really see any other option if we truly want to be better. If we packaged him with Wright I could see teams being very interested....
hayth.james.g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2014, 10:34 PM   #80
BPo001
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,131
BPo001 has a reputation beyond reputeBPo001 has a reputation beyond reputeBPo001 has a reputation beyond reputeBPo001 has a reputation beyond reputeBPo001 has a reputation beyond reputeBPo001 has a reputation beyond reputeBPo001 has a reputation beyond reputeBPo001 has a reputation beyond reputeBPo001 has a reputation beyond reputeBPo001 has a reputation beyond reputeBPo001 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

How did Granger look last year? Isn't he a free agent?
BPo001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
double post double post

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.